Valar Morghulis--Valar Dohaeris discussion
Game of Thrones (TV series)
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Season Six, Episode Nine: Battle of the Bastards *SPOILERS*
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Thanks Chris...in advance! you know id be pestering you at 10:00PM anyway!
Maybe I should have waited. I kinda like being pestered ;)
Right now the only thing I can say is...........Muuuahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahaha!!!!
Till I process after the obligatory second viewing
Well, that was quite an intense hour. First impressions are that I was really pleased that a large portion of the episode was based around decent dialogue, and allowed a bunch of decent actors to do their job well again. Indeed, even the battle itself was without doubt one of the best productions I've seen. Fair play, they've upped the ante on this one. Further reflections after a snooze and rewatch....
Damn lost my comment....2nd viewing....
Finally Dany is a woman of few words and swift actions. (Tyrion looked a bit terrified for a few seconds)
I enjoyed the Harpie BBQ. Looks like Yara and Dany are going by the same "playbook."
(poor Theon is now also a "halfman?)
The bickering between Jon and Sansa made me crazy. Jon is such a narcissist, (you know nothing Jon Snow
needs to be changed to, You LEARN nothing Jon Snow!) The cost of his stubbornness was far too dear, although we all knew what it would be. It was too sad and predictable.
All through the frey i kept yelling "where are the Knights of The Vale?" the suspense was killing me.
although i must say the final scene was just as satisfying as a lovely meal, in a 4 star restaurant!
(woof!) ( that tiny little smirk on Sansa"s face as she walked away, said it all.)
Oh my goodness so intense. Was anyone else wanting Ghost to be I that cage at the end? That would have been too much satisfaction!!! So so good. I'm not going to be able to sleep. Meereen was really great too. I kept saying "Roast the ships! Roast the ships!!" Tyrion and Yara had excellent dialogue! Still decompressing.. So much to think about...
Immediate thoughts are more on the acting and production as well. That was the most intense 45 minutes I think I've ever encountered on a screen. My adrenaline was pumping so much I was shaking. I couldn't even really process Rickon. This was an incredible depiction of the brutality of war. I've seen war movies but I felt like this episode really showed medieval fighting. The wildness, the tactics, the blood, the pain, how personal the fighting is...they did great. Battle scenes are becoming my favorite episodes from season to season and this is a perfect example of why.
Side note: I'm if the minority when it comes to Dany but...hot damn I loved her in this episode. Take that masters! I've got dragons. /drops mic/
As for the story...I will pick this back up tomorrow with @Ben. I think I need to digest and process what I saw before I can properly discuss the writing aspect.
Sansa never told Jon that she had the Vale army tucked up her sleeve, not even in the WAR council, she still kept silent...If Jon had knownhis plans may have been much different...She had every opportunity to tell Jon about the Vale, so why didn't she?Sansa wants the North for herself & she didn't care if it was at Jon's expense.....She played a game just like Littlefinger taught her, no matter the cost.....
Jon's mistake....Sansa warned him about Ramsay & his games and that Rickon was already dead....But Jon lost his temper, forgot his battle plans and nearly lost the war....What he tried to do to Ramsay was turned on him and it was Ramsay who played Jon....But they WON!
The Northern Houses will now decide who will lead them, Jon or Sansa....but questions will be asked.....how did Baelish know when to show up, who told him and why was this information was withheld....
It would have made a great difference IF Jon, Davos and Tormund had known about the Vale and Northern & Wildling lives might have been saved because of this information.
Sansa did not trust Jon and she still doesn't, but by her silence she does trust Littlefinger and his whispered 'half brother'......
But it was the best episode this season and RAMSAY is DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!....Now he knows how poor Fat Walda felt......
The time for Wolves is now and Arya is on her way, as they Freys celebrate.....
Right now all I can process is how happy I am that Ramsay is dead!!!
Jessica wrote: "Immediate thoughts are more on the acting and production as well. That was the most intense 45 minutes I think I've ever encountered on a screen. My adrenaline was pumping so much I was shaking. I ..."I agree, this was some of the best production and choreography of a battle I have seen either on big or small screen, the dirt, the blood the brutality, it's funny that the show manages to be at it's best when playing close to historical accuracy, as in the first season, and loses the nuance and richness that a touch of fantasy adds.
Glad Ramsay got that pounding from Jon before he met sansa.
But all in all, the credit is to the actors and production team.
Could an increasing connection with a dragon make the dragon rider more and more ruthless? Like the dragon mind melds. The more overlap the more ruthless.
@Japhiahart, I'm not sure. The Mad King didn't have dragons. I think it's power that Dany is drunk on. She is a force to be reckoned with and will not let something go un avenged. I think that's why I like her. She fights for the lower classes/for justice. Yes, I see the faults she has in doing this. But it's why I love her. Plus I love me some dragons! Seriously love those creatures!Jon and Sansa...at least Jon points out the fault of her actions in the next episode. I realize she was trying to explain who Ramsay was and felt she had important information to offer. She did. But to continue to play the victim just annoys me. She was standing right there. Ask to offer some advice?
Jon still fell into the trap because well I think anyone would have in that moment. Poor Rickon.
So what is the benefit of never mentioning the Vale coming? Or was she unsure of their arrival and didn't want to "jinx" that? Was she wanting Jon to be killed? Does she have that in her?
Again great battle scene. I'm still having trouble wiping the image of Jon suffocating/getting trampled from my mind. That was some really great filmography tricks right there. I felt it and had to look away. It was as if that small amount of pov was going to suffocate me or send me into a claustrophobic panic.
Ramsay is dead, dead, dead. Revenge is sweet when someone as evil and twisted as he is gets that final death. It felt good. Did you notice how Jon had to force himself to stop pummeling Ramsay because he knew Sansa deserved to take the final blow? And her smile as she walked away from the dogs? That was a Baelish smile if I ever I saw one!
Oh!!! @Rebecca and @Ben...Davos found his gift to Shireen. It was a major emotional moment but I forgot about it due to the battle. Scenes for next week show Davos confronting Melisandre with Jon present. Big things are coming and I'm all excited about it.
damn lost my comment again.... Sansa didnt know if TKOTV would show up, lets face it Littletwisedfinger isnt the most trusted fellow is he?As for Jon beating Ramsey bloody, as she stood by, her plan was to make sure the dogs could not resist a good meal after 7 days of stavation, evcen if it was their beloved "Master".
Davros knows....he knows.... I see another BBQ....i hope that woman burns!!!!
Jessica wrote: "So what is the benefit of never mentioning the Vale coming? Or was she unsure of their arrival and didn't want to "jinx" that? Was she wanting Jon to be killed? Does she have that in her? On the topic of Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale in that war council meeting... To me it seems like she knows she can "play the game" but is just not that good yet. Maybe she doesn't trust Jon, maybe she was unsure the Vale would show up at all, maybe she is nervous about the initial going behind Jon's back to meet Littlefinger........... But it just seems like mistakes due to inexperience, NOT malice. I don't think she is trying to "play" Jon, but I can see how it is coming off that way. She should've told Jon and they could've waited a little longer (turned out it was ONE MORE DAY!!!!) to start the battle.
You're also right about Jon being crushed. OMG what a scene. So terrible. And they portrayed it perfectly. I FELT that. That really is sticking with me today!
Yes, that battle was pretty amazing. I was awed by it as I watched. And quite a bit afraid for Jon, Tormund, and Wun Wun..
I love the scene with Dany and the Greyjoy siblings. I loved the banter between Yara and Dany and I am so excited to see how these two queens work together. This was the best episode this season for me. I was so stressed watching the battle for Winterfell and so upset that Jon played right into Ramsay's hands. I never thought I'd say this but I cheered when I saw Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale. I hate Littlefinger but I am so, so glad he brought the knights to help fight for Sansa.
So excited to see how the season ends next week.
Kayleigh wrote: "I love the scene with Dany and the Greyjoy siblings. I loved the banter between Yara and Dany and I am so excited to see how these two queens work together. This was the best episode this season ..."
Although the scene was well written, acted and produced, it felt a little inept, in that it seemed to have no context, rushed in just to tie off another loose end. *And suddenly, as if by magic, a pair of Greyjoys appear* PING
I'm increasingly convinced that sansa is in the family way, and increasingly confused why she's chosen to do nothing about it.
Kayleigh wrote: "I love the scene with Dany and the Greyjoy siblings. I loved the banter between Yara and Dany and I am so excited to see how these two queens work together. This was the best episode this season ..."
Agree with both Kayleigh and Ben on the Greyjoy's in Meereen scene. It was close to what I pictured so I loved it! But it did feel a little odd. Very quick. I would like to think in "real life" an alliance like that might take more than 2 minutes....... But this is TV so they have to get 'er done!
Ben wrote: "I'm increasingly convinced that sansa is in the family way, and increasingly confused why she's chosen to do nothing about it."I thought so a few episodes ago as well.... And a WIC article added to my suspicions. But she has been away from Ramsay so long now! She would at the very least be showing a bit. I think the show would've acknowledged it too. Also, when Ramsay gives that line "I'm a part of you now (or something to that effect)" we would've seen more emotion from Sansa.
I could be totally wrong! But that's why I'm not buying it anymore!
Amazing episode. After the euphoric high of watching dany ride her dragon to battle, the rest of the episode was an emotional thrill ride. Loved all of it. I don't think that Sansa was playing Jon per se. But I think she accepted if he died along with Rickon during the battle. Winterfell is hers now which she wanted enough to trust little finger. Great performance by Sophie.
Im with you all...Ben, Jessica, Rebecca, you all know who you are... this definitely was a great episode, at great cost. its been rather sad this season to bring back some favorites only to "off them" at the first grusome opportunity, however, this IS GRRM's world, and we all know how he loves to pull the rug out from underneath us. Im still waiting for the arrival of Brienne, Podman and Arya.
AND the vengence of Davros. I have a feeling that will light a spark under a certain person with blessings from almost everyone.
Im still having nightmares of not being able to breathe.
I'm glad they're killing off people not necessary for the plot. It shows they're wrapping up loose ends in preparation for an ending. Realizing game of thrones is almost over is heartbreaking but at least there still won't be confusion in fans believe that "the will rally around the to do ". They're focusing audience's attention on the primary storylines and characters. The stakes are getting higher. I thought the comedic beats in the episode were strong with the exception of tormund. But that's mostly because tormund is intentionally funny. We laugh with him not at him.
I loved the dany and yara introduction. I honestly couldn't picture what they would think of each other.
But to concur with the popular opinion, the actors, directors, sound engineer, cgi, etc - everyone did a phenomenal job.
JaphiaHart wrote: "I'm glad they're killing off people not necessary for the plot. It shows they're wrapping up loose ends in preparation for an ending. Realizing game of thrones is almost over is heartbreaking but a..."I agree about killing of superfluous characters. Just remember Quentyn in the books.... He's around for 30 something chapters, just to get roasted by the dragons in the end. Don't get me wrong, I loved that detail in the books, and would've loved to see him on screen, but trying to add him into the show would've been nuts. He doesn't do much that adds to the overall story, so was easily cut. Same with Rickon, most of Dorne, etc.... It would be us booke reader's dream to see it ALL come to life, but it is just too much!
Maureen wrote: "JaphiaHart wrote: "I'm glad they're killing off people not necessary for the plot. It shows they're wrapping up loose ends in preparation for an ending. Realizing game of thrones is almost over is ..."I wouldn't consider him superfluous, tedious maybe, but it was demonstrative of Doran Martell's 'long term game plan', which is clearly nothing t'do with the show.
It also illustrates/reinforces the fact that dragons are not pets
Ben wrote: "It also illustrates/reinforces the fact that dragons are not pets"Haha, yes! I lol'ed :)
I liked Quentyn a lot (still debating if that was actually Quentyn). I hate believing he died. Overall, I've begun to think of the show as elaborate fan fiction. I love reading GoT fan fiction. So I'm used to absorbing it without getting too emotionally involved
What do you think Sansa's price will be for Littlefinger's help? Marriage?He said in the preview, "I want what I've always wanted." He's always wanted Catelyn/Sansa right? I'm predicting marriage and Sansa will have to say goodbye to her coveted throne.
That's a great question. Also, this isn't the battle. Will little finger and Sansa take the white walker threat seriously? Sansa has been shown as commenting on it much. And little finger as yet doesn't know.Do they focus their vale army north or is little finger going to make a play for another region if not winterfell itself? River run is pretty ripe for taking. Kings landing can be if the Tyrell's side with LF
I am wondering how far up in the air they will leave us till next season. This last episode is not going to hold me over till next year or whenever WOW comes out which ever comes first. I think I need some valium, or a Valarian sword, neither of which is easy to come by these days.That being said, 3 more days....
But I bet Season 7 airs before Martin releases the damn book....
Chris wrote: "But I bet Season 7 airs before Martin releases the damn book...."I WILL cry if this happens!! I feel like we should've heard something by now... Wouldn't there be rumors floating around if he was close to publishing/editing? It just makes me think you're right since we haven't heard anything like that!
So, I watched this episode 1 more time last night and I have 1 more parting thought: The North better start burning bodies, STAT!Also, the scenes with Dany and the dragons are such great CGI. Compared to Daznak's Pit last season... These dragons are so clear and so, so real looking. Bravo show, bravo.
so HBO is running a 10 hr marathon today...and unfortunately I can see that the last episode is only 60 minutes long. VERY DISAPPOINTED I am. I was misinformed that the last episode was to be 90 minutes long! People need to get their stories straight.
I've never heard it was 90mins long. Ive consistently heard 59mins. But yea. Not all sources can be trusted. Find something that's at least nominally vetted.
Episode Ten will be 69 minutes long, the longest episode of the series so far.
Yeah, I initially thought I read 90 minutes and did a happy dance! But read again and it's 69! Love those extra minutes!!
It's directed by Miguel Sapochnik, who also directed "Hardhome" last season.