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Six of Crows (Six of Crows, #1)
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BotM Discussion - FANTASY > Six of Crows/overall discussion/Spoilers

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message 1: by Lel (last edited Jun 14, 2016 02:21PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lel (lelspear) | 1751 comments I thought I would get this one started after just finishing it tonight.

I have to say I wasn't really looking forward to another YA book. I don't tend to find them very detailed, griping or that enjoyable (with the odd exception). I'm pleased to say that this one is another exception.

The characters were all very detailed and really fun. I wanted to know more about all of them, I feel that they could all have their own book of back stories and I would, in time, read each and everyone of them.

The world sucked me in as well. I found it all very detailed and colourful. I kind of pictured a Victorian type London in my head (might have to do with the fact i'm playing Assassins Creed Syndicate at the moment). But the gang just struck me as similar to Oliver Twist, only beefed up on drugs.

I will def. seek out the next book as I really want to know what happens to Nina and Inej.

Did anyone else have the mission impossible music combined with the A-team theme playing in their head when the jail break was going on?

Thanks for nominating it Roger. I know I would never have picked it up otherwise. :)


message 2: by Cupcakes & Machetes, Hybrid Creature (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cupcakes & Machetes (hybridcreature) | 857 comments Mod
I really enjoyed it as well. I loved the Grisha trilogy but I honestly think that I liked this even more.

All the characters were great and I too would read books based on any of them. Though Kaz was my all time favorite followed by Inej.


Greg | 998 comments Thanks for creating the thread Lel! :)

I'll probably start reading this one soon. I picked up my copy yesterday.


Nick | 110 comments Just finished this one. Took me a while to really get into it, Kaz's story kept breaking my heart over and over, and Nina & Matthias had a pretty cool chemistry going on...

Twist and turn, with obstacle after obstacle piled one on top of the other... and then the book finishes without a _single_ one of the plot threads actually resolved. Not one. A huge raft of dangling plot threads with no resolution at all.

It felt like the book finished half-way through a story, there was no satisfaction that comes from resolution - it has got to be one of the most frustrating ending to a book i've read in ages.

Really enjoyed the story, the ending alone frustrated me enough to drop it from a 5 to a 3.


Andrew From a FIVE to a THREE for the ending alone? LOL You must have been very, very upset!! :D

I didn't mind the ending. Sure, it made me wish I could immediately pick up the next one, but that's standard cliffhanger affair. I definitely felt this particular story and sets of personal stories were executed and completed for the most part, and quite well.

This will probably be a contender for my favorite read of the year, and Kaz my favorite character.

I had not read, and still haven't read, the Grisha trilogy! Should probably get on that lol


message 6: by Roger, Knight Radiant (new) - rated it 4 stars

Roger | 1986 comments Mod
I read this book and quite enjoyed it, I had not read the Grisha trilogy before and kind of wish that I had. I don't know what's in it but I would think that it would explain Grishas more and that seemed a little lacking.

I agree with a lot of what was said above, good immersive world, well written characters and I also did not like the ending that much. To me the ending just seemed so contrived, without knowing what's going to happen in the rest of the trilogy I feel like this book could have been just a standalone story and wrapped up at the end of the book. I imagine I'll finished the story but it's not one that I'll be waiting on pins and needles for it to come out.

I may or may not pick up the original trilogy, I really haven't decided yet.


Nick | 110 comments Contrived is the right word for it... I have no issues with dangling plot threads, cliffhangers to spur on to reading the next book - i'm addicted to long series fiction after all ;)

To my mind though, a book still needs to be a self contained story, and this wasn't. The cliffhanger wasn't "wow I wonder what will happen next", or "new complications arriving from the resolution of the current story", it was quite literally "this story didn't finish". Yeah, that irked me. A lot.

Not the worst i've ever felt betrayed by a book though ;) That accolade goes to the final book in the Hunger Games series - I rated the first two 5's and the last one a 1, that's how angry that book made me. If i'd had a real copy instead of an electronic one, that may have been throw-across-the-room territory.


message 8: by Cupcakes & Machetes, Hybrid Creature (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cupcakes & Machetes (hybridcreature) | 857 comments Mod
The Grisha trilogy explains everything a lot better but there is a love triangle, well really a square.


Nick | 110 comments I might have to look into that at some point too.. but to be honest, I didn't really think this book suffered from lack of familiarity - I didn't even realise there was an earlier trilogy until I'd finished this one and I didn't have any problem following the story or understanding the world.


Philippa Jefferies I really enjoyed this book. I loved the characters and felt that each one was different and interesting, I can’t wait to find out more about them in the next book (my favourites were Kaz and Jesper).
The only disappointment was the ending. To me it fell a bit flat and didn’t come as any sort of surprise.
However I thought it was well written and had me pretty hooked the whole way. I’m looking forward to reading the next one!


message 11: by Alex (new)

Alex I have not gotten to the ending, maybe 1/3 of the way through, until I got distracted by something shiny. The parts I did read where interesting. Original, to me, plot, and interesting characters, though some of the characters seemed to be expanded cliches, but I should probably wait until I finish to pass judgement upon their heads.


Melanie | 1164 comments I think my favorite part about this book was the pacing. It perfectly mixed actin, exposition, and romance...making it very hard to put down. It's the only book so far this year I was co peeled to stay up ridiculously late to finish reading. So far, it is my favorite book this year.


message 13: by Alex (new) - rated it 5 stars

Alex (alexozwald) | 16 comments I loved this book. I really wasn't expecting it to be so good, and truly live up to its hype, but it did! And it was amazing!

Thankyou @Hybrid Creature for the warning on The Grisha Trilogy by the way! I'll still probably read it but the warning is appreciated ;)

Kaz. My favourite!!! Yeet! He is beautiful. I love his character. His growing relationship with Inej is amazing! Really all the relationships in this book are great, with no love triangles! 6 people and 3 pairings, it works. The writing was phenomenal and there were slower parts, but I still always felt that I had to keep reading. I really loved this book :)


message 14: by Wayland, Ernest Scribbler (new) - rated it 4 stars

Wayland Smith | 2782 comments Mod
I overall enjoyed this a lot. I won't repeat everything I said in my review. I thought it was a great story with a few minor flaws. The characters were interesting, the plot had all sorts of twists and turns. The different societies weren't fully fleshed out, but enough to be interesting. I'm glad I read it, and I'll be looking for book two. I may even hunt down this other trilogy of hers I keep hearing about.


steven rhodes (imstuckinmyways) | 1 comments I'm 41, I didn't even realise that young adult fantasy fiction was a genre until I joined this group earlier this year. I'm glad I joined the group as books like this would have passed me by.
I agree with the majority of the comments already posted so won't go into too much detail. I enjoyed the fast pace of the writing and the world build and magic system left me intrigued to learn more. I understand the comments regarding the ending but I personally wasn't too disappointed. I didn't see one of the final twists coming even though there had been enough pointers along the way.

best for me though were the main characters. they alone were enough to keep me reading. I have to congratulate the author of creating not only 1, but 6 characters I genuinely care about. overall 7/10 for me. a bit light in places and implausible in others but plenty to recommend.


message 16: by Bruce (last edited Jun 18, 2016 05:05PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bruce (bruce1984) I also enjoyed Six of Crows. I'm a sucker for an A-team plot!

Lel wrote, "Did anyone else have the mission impossible music combined with the A-team theme playing in their head when the jail break was going on?"

Yeah, I did! Definitely enjoyed it. I was also sucked in by the tech of the jurda parem. Pretty cool how that all worked out. But I didn't feel the characters acted very much like their age. They seemed more in their thirties than YA.

The ending didn't bother me too much, although it did seemed a bit contrived.


message 17: by Wayland, Ernest Scribbler (new) - rated it 4 stars

Wayland Smith | 2782 comments Mod
I'd agree they acted a LOT older than they were described. I actually didn't know this was supposed to be a YA book until I started reading this thread.


message 18: by Rinn, Captain of the SSV Normandy (last edited Jun 19, 2016 01:58AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Rinn (rinnsohma) | 3456 comments Mod
I honestly set out expecting this to be an instant 5-star read, I was SO excited for it! I think that may have affected my enjoyment because although I gave it a good 4-star rating, it didn't quite hit the top for me.

I think I was expecting a LOT more 'preparation'/training montage type moments, rather than most of the book being the actual heist :P

However, I absolutely LOVED that Ketterdam was based on Amsterdam - I've never read any Dutch inspired fantasy before. Jej! :)


message 19: by b. t. (last edited Jun 19, 2016 07:18AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

b. t. (bt24688863211) ^ I had the same reaction as Rinn -- expected to love it, but something about it fell short.

I think it's that I was so much more interested in Kaz than in the other characters... I liked them, but I always wished I was reading Kaz's POV instead of anyone else's.

The plot was fun, tho. I'm a sucker for underdogs with every disadvantage outsmarting powerful institutions.

I get why people are disappointed by the cliffhanger. I didn't mind it much, maybe because there was enough build-up & I had time to brace myself. I guessed the deal was going to go wrong, because otherwise it would've felt too easy... and it didn't seem like Bardugo's style to resolve a new complication so quickly, ha.

(The thing is, I don't care enough to pick up the sequel, whenever it comes out. So this story is always going to be unfinished for me, and that does bug me a little.)


message 20: by Rinn, Captain of the SSV Normandy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Rinn (rinnsohma) | 3456 comments Mod
Also, I have read book one of the Grisha trilogy - it was a while ago - and I did feel that without any kind of knowledge of the Grisha, some bits might feel a bit unclear. I guess it can be difficult balancing the info dump - you need enough for new readers to understand Grisha, but not so much that those who read and loved the Grisha trilogy (Bardugo has a HUGE fanbase) feel fed up with reading stuff they already know.

I also felt like I wanted even MORE back story of all the characters! They were very well built and different, and we did get quite a bit. But... if Leigh Bardugo did mini prequels for each character I would TOTALLY lap them up.

I think, on reflect, my main complaint is that they didn't feel quite as much like a 'team' as I thought. For a heist like that, surely you need a team that is incredibly close and trusts each other a lot?

BUT I did enjoy this book quite a lot. It sounds like I didn't, right? Haha! I would carry on reading the series but I might not be quite so eager/excited for book two as I was for book one - but who knows, maybe book two will reach the expectations I had of Six of Crows? :)


message 21: by Elma (new) - added it

Elma (elmavz) | 21 comments For the first time since joining the group, I'm really struggling with the BotM. It's not that the story itself is bad (I'm very curious about Kaz's background), but the heavy Dutch influence is breaking the pace for me - badly.

Afrikaans is my mother tongue, and the language stemmed from Dutch - so a lot of the character, and location, names my brain decides to read in Afrikaans and that really, really does not work out well (the Afrikaans language is quite harsh sounding and the sudden appearance of one of its words/names in the middle of an English sentence is jarring). I'll be happily reading along and suddenly they mention Geldstraat... and poof! The magic's gone.

I'm still undecided on whether I'll push to finish it, or move it to my unfinished/abandoned shelf. As I said, it's not because I find the story bad, my brain is just working against me here.


message 22: by Rinn, Captain of the SSV Normandy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Rinn (rinnsohma) | 3456 comments Mod
I had fun exercising my Dutch pronounciation, but I can see how if it is your first (or close to your first) language, then it could sort of 'break the mood'.

I remember hearing lots about Afrikaans when I first moved to the Netherlands :)


Bruce (bruce1984) Rinn wrote, "However, I absolutely LOVED that Ketterdam was based on Amsterdam...

That's cool, I didn't know that.


Bruce (bruce1984) I haven't read any Grisha books. Is this a steampunk world or is it kind of modern medieval? They have guns and tanks but they also have magic and other fantasy props like the jurda parem.


message 25: by Cupcakes & Machetes, Hybrid Creature (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cupcakes & Machetes (hybridcreature) | 857 comments Mod
Bruce wrote: "I haven't read any Grisha books. Is this a steampunk world or is it kind of modern medieval? They have guns and tanks but they also have magic and other fantasy props like the jurda parem."

More modern medieval.


Veronica  (readingonthefly) | 803 comments I just finished the book a few hours ago and, like most of the hyped books, it didn't live up to my expectations. I could have done without any of the romantic angles though most especially the one between Nina and Matthias. It was such a cliche - oh, we're enemies but we fell in love. I'm not anti-romance but I'm very picky about how it unfolds and going the cliched trope route is already off on the wrong foot with me. I liked Nina on her own but I grew tired of reading about her and Matthias mooning over each other. This was a perfectly good heist/caper story without that added to the mix. Plus, I thought Matthias was a just a bland bunch of boring. I actually would have found it more interesting if he had actually turned Nina in and stuck with it.

I agree that Kaz's story was the most interesting, followed by Inej.

It was a good story, but it all felt...too easy. I never had any doubt that all six characters were going to survive to the end so there was never any sense of suspense to me. Some things felt like cheats, like all the mentions of Kaz's bad leg and yet he can jump down from a height while carrying Inej, and how there was never any mention or hint of Jesper being a fabrikator until - shazam!- they need that particular skill mid-book. I have no doubt Nina will manage to beat the addiction.

Overall I thought it was a good book but I don't feel driven to read the rest of the trilogy.


Bruce (bruce1984) Hybrid Creature (devours books instead of brains) wrote: "More modern medieval."

Thanks!


message 28: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 998 comments I'm about 1/2 done and enjoying it.

I do like the characters' backstories! Like you Rinn, I'd be intrigued to read a collection of stories that provide even more backstories.

At first I felt a little irritated by all the emphasis on how hard & cynical & put together & occasionally snarky everyone was. That seems to be a very strong component of many young adult books for me - that too cool to be ruffled attitude. It started to grate on me. But then as the backstories started cropping up, my heart softened a bit toward the characters. I feel mostly won over.

The different Grisha forms of magic and different cultures/lands appeal to me as well. A very engaging read. I like the maps & sketches included in the first pages also.


message 29: by Paul, A wanderer in unknown realms (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul | 3521 comments Mod
Finished yesterday. A good enough book. Some flaws, the city felt underdeveloped for me, some bits seemed too easy and the plot was fairly standard but I really enjoyed the characters.
Kas was great and most of the crew had interesting and diverse back stories.


Efrat | 90 comments To me this book felt flat, without real emotions, even with all the romance going on. The background stories slowed the pace and distract me from the main plot. I rather had those revalutions come from dialog or actions. The main plot was nice, but the ease of the sucsses. 6 people doing all that, and non of them die? I wont be reading next book


message 31: by Audrey, Queen of the Potato People (new) - rated it 3 stars

Audrey (niceyackerman) | 2721 comments Mod
I liked it well enough but didn't go crazy over it. There wasn't a big range of emotion, and it wasn't plausible for a bunch of 15- 17-year-olds to be so notorious or knowledgeable. But the pacing was good, and the plot worked overall.


message 32: by Paul, A wanderer in unknown realms (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul | 3521 comments Mod
I think with the age think, at stages it felt a bit like the Bugsy Malone musical. I was waiting for the first custard pie to be thrown.
It did give the impression that it would all descend to play acting at a point. Less emphasis on the ages by the author might have made the book a bit stronger rather than trying to appeal to the age of the YA main audience


Bruce (bruce1984) Paul wrote, "Less emphasis on the ages by the author might have made the book a bit stronger rather than trying to appeal to the age of the YA main audience.

I think that's a good point.


Veronica  (readingonthefly) | 803 comments Audrey wrote: "I liked it well enough but didn't go crazy over it. There wasn't a big range of emotion, and it wasn't plausible for a bunch of 15- 17-year-olds to be so notorious or knowledgeable. But the pacing ..."

I agree, Audrey. Despite Kaz's tragic past, the book didn't really feel like it had any emotional meat to it. I felt sorry for the things Kaz endured when he was young...er, but even that felt like there was a distance there.

And Ioved that Bugsy Malone musical! More than I liked this book probably. ;-)


message 35: by Paul, A wanderer in unknown realms (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul | 3521 comments Mod
Who didnt love Bugsy Malone ( actually my missus hates it for some odd reason but she also hates Goonies so in some ways her taste is obviously awful)


message 36: by Audrey, Queen of the Potato People (new) - rated it 3 stars

Audrey (niceyackerman) | 2721 comments Mod
How can you hate Goonies??


Andrew Paul wrote: "so in some ways her taste is obviously awful"

LOL!


b. t. (bt24688863211) Efrat wrote: "To me this book felt flat, without real emotions, even with all the romance going on..."

my thoughts exactly. i was picking it apart to review and could list a lot of different things i liked about it, very little i disliked... but i just felt so detached and disinterested the whole time.

not sure why, either. a lot of the critiques i'm seeing here (age of the characters, predictability of the plot) are fair points, but not things that tend to bother me, so that's not what's putting me off. sometimes you just don't connect with a story, i guess.


message 39: by Audrey, Queen of the Potato People (new) - rated it 3 stars

Audrey (niceyackerman) | 2721 comments Mod
brittany wrote: "Efrat wrote: "To me this book felt flat, without real emotions, even with all the romance going on..."

my thoughts exactly. i was picking it apart to review and could list a lot of different thing..."


Right -- it had everything I like in a book, yet I wasn't totally connecting with it, and I'm not sure why. When that happens, it's usually a character issue.


message 40: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 998 comments I'm still finding it enjoyable and quite gripping myself - only 50 pages left! The characters are fine for me for this sort of book - some things not exactly realistic, but it's not the sort of book where I bother too much about that.


b. t. (bt24688863211) Audrey wrote: "Right -- it had everything I like in a book, yet I wasn't totally connecting with it, and I'm not sure why. When that happens, it's usually a character issue."

i think that's it. i really liked the characters, but i only ever felt invested in kaz (and inej, to a lesser degree). the others were enjoyable but the emotional connection wasn't there for me, i didn't feel for them or care about their fates.


message 42: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 998 comments I have to admit, I was a little disappointed in some of the developments in the last 50 pages of the book.

It was a bit of a letdown, the idea that Wyland's (view spoiler).

Also, not sure about (view spoiler).

Overall, I wasn't too crazy about the last bit. Before that, I thought the book was paced great, definitely gripping and fun. I'd almost decided on 4 stars, but after the last 50 pages, it fell to 3.5 stars or so. I couldn't really decide whether to give it 3 or 4. I did enjoy it.


Shawnie | 1626 comments I felt the same about the closing chapters. I'm not a fan of cliffhangers anyway, but this one also felt thrown together. I still loved the characters and action up till the last, like you said, Greg. :)


message 44: by Lel (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lel (lelspear) | 1751 comments I felt like the end was left there so that people would have to buy the next book. Sometimes that works but I feel like I would be more inclined to pick the next book up quicker if this one had ended better. The characters, plot and pace would have been enough to keep me hooked. The cliff hanger just annoyed me and made the next book fall down in my TBR pile.


message 45: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 998 comments Shawnie wrote: "I felt the same about the closing chapters. I'm not a fan of cliffhangers anyway, but this one also felt thrown together. I still loved the characters and action up till the last, like you said, Gr..."

I agree Shawnie - it felt thrown together to me too.


Bruce (bruce1984) Greg wrote: "Shawnie wrote: "I felt the same about the closing chapters. I'm not a fan of cliffhangers anyway, but this one also felt thrown together. I still loved the characters and action up till the last, l..."

I'll third that sentiment.


Yelena Lugin (ylugin) | 8 comments Veronica wrote: "Audrey wrote: "I liked it well enough but didn't go crazy over it. There wasn't a big range of emotion, and it wasn't plausible for a bunch of 15- 17-year-olds to be so notorious or knowledgeable. ..."

I agree with you guys.
I enjoyed the book over all, I even didn't mind the ending.
But the first half I had to push myself to read.
I didn't care about the characters that much, I didn't feel connected to any of them till late in the story.

I found Kas and Inej to be my two favorites.

But from the beginning when I found out how young Kas was I was shocked... It made no sense to me... Oh well.

I liked the Grisha books more than six of crows.


message 48: by Audrey, Queen of the Potato People (new) - rated it 3 stars

Audrey (niceyackerman) | 2721 comments Mod
Yelena wrote: I liked the Grisha books more than six of crows.

I'm trying to decide whether to read the Grisha trilogy. It did take me a while to figure out what a Grisha was.


Carolyn  (ckarasch) I really enjoyed this book. I read a while back now for a book club. I did read the Grisha Trilogy before getting into this one and I think it helped a lot. The world was kind of built already, it was just an expansion - and I liked the references to people and places.

I actually liked Six of Crows a lot more than the Grisha Trilogy. I liked Inej and Kas a lot. And while there were some couples, the plot focused on the action rather than the romantic development.

As for the ending, I was a little annoyed and confused. I had to re-read it just to keep all the double-crossing and other shenanigans straight.


message 50: by Veronica (last edited Jun 27, 2016 07:18AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Veronica  (readingonthefly) | 803 comments Lel wrote: "I felt like the end was left there so that people would have to buy the next book. Sometimes that works but I feel like I would be more inclined to pick the next book up quicker if this one had end..."

I don't generally mind cliffhangers but this one wasn't enough of a hook to get me to buy the next book. While I liked some of the characters, I never felt all that emotionally invested in them. So one and done for me! :-)


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