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Rupert Dreyfus
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Dissecting anti-immigration arguments
Yup Lisa, a lot of "news outlets" giving opinions online about immigration are nothing more than thinly disguised propaganda blogs run by rednecks and neo-Nazis.
Brexit is a fake revolt – working-class culture is being hijacked to help the elite -- https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...
Brexit: Queen challenges inner circle to explain why Britain should stay in EU -- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/...EU referendum: Queen reportedly asks dinner guests for ‘three good reasons why Britain should be part of Europe’
Well, at least the fascists are happy...European far right hails Britain's Brexit vote -- https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...
In today's news, from RT:"The realities of Australia’s controversial method of dealing with refugees has been exposed in 8,000 pages of leaked documents that reveal systematic child abuse on Australia’s offshore detention island Nauru.
The Guardian received the leak from inside the detention system which exposes more than 2,000 reports detailing assault, sexual abuse, self harm and unfit living conditions, half of which concern children. It provides a damning case against the Australian government for failing to act on previous reports or to properly care for those under its detention."
https://www.rt.com/news/355327-nauru-...
Harry wrote: ""The realities of Australia’s controversial method of dealing with refugees has been exposed in 8,000 pages of leaked documents that reveal systematic child abuse on Australia’s offshore detention island Nauru.The Guardian received the leak from inside the detention system which exposes more than 2,000 reports detailing assault, sexual abuse, self harm and unfit living conditions, half of which concern children. It provides a damning case against the Australian government for failing to act on previous reports or to properly care for those under its detention."..."
Ah, yes, you guys in the Northern Hemisphere aren't the only ones doing dodgy things to immigrants and refugees, mate.
Nauru is a disgrace for Down Under, I personally think.
I mean, sure, Australia has a huge coastline to monitor, and sure a lot of boat people do try to come here from the likes of Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan etc, but surely there's gotta be a better way than shoving men women and children in a detention center often for years. Some are indeed criminals and even terrorists, but many others are desperate people and it's not fair on those refugees to be treated as prisoners in horrible living conditions.
That'd be my two cents, but perhaps there are other people in this group who may have more knowledge of the boat refugee problem in Australia.
I must admit I was only vaguely aware of Naura (what with it being in the media-forgotten southern hemisphere!). There's some shocking stuff in that article.
Harry wrote: "I must admit I was only vaguely aware of Naura (what with it being in the media-forgotten southern hemisphere!). There's some shocking stuff in that article."Down here in "the Colonies" it's still a lawless zone at times :)
James wrote: "Down here in "the Colonies" it's still a lawless zone at times :).."That's 'cos you're a nation of convicts that we sent down there. :)
Harry wrote: "That's 'cos you're a nation of convicts that we sent down there. :) "That's why the UK is now home of the Elite...you guys got rid of most of the riff raff centuries ago...
I dunno, like boomerangs, I find Australians keep on coming back...;)
Harry wrote: "I dunno, like boomerangs, I find Australians keep on coming back...;)"
I wouldn't know anything about that...Being a Kiwi...
Harry wrote: "Do you have WikiKiwi in NZ?"Que? (spoken in Barcelona accent)
Britain not to trigger EU divorce before end of year: Downing Street -- http://www.investing.com/news/world-n...
Brexit, New World Order Endgame, Chaos Politics with Gary Franchi -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1097...
Brexit could be halted after Government admits that MPs likely to have final say -- Parliamentary vote on final Brexit agreement hailed as 'victory' by pro-EU MPs http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/...
It's great to know Melora wasn't judgemental, herself, because that would've been a double standard :)
Melora wrote: "James wrote: "Brexit could be halted after Government admits that MPs likely to have final say -- Parliamentary vote on final Brexit agreement hailed as 'victory' by pro-EU MPs http://www.independe..."Wow. I've really neglected to inform myself about what's going on in the world. I got into some other things ...family issues and spiritual seeking along w work and taking care of my gram. Just tonight did I decide to sign on and actually read a few posts which I consider my real news source since it's plain to see that what my Grandmother believes is real is NOT news at all. But now I have the sense that I've really fallen behind. So, can we start here? Will someone explain this to me : "Greece found out the hard way several months ago when its sovereignty was relegated to the country's willingness to participate in Europe's refugee scheme" Thanks, Irene
Irene wrote: "Will someone explain this to me : "Greece found out the hard way several months ago when its sovereignty was relegated to the country's willingness to participate in Europe's refugee scheme"..."Essentially that is someone blaming the entire multifaceted situation in Greece (most experts I've read agree that country's financial demise relates to various factors like central banking, IMF/World Bank tactics, modern economics, problems with EU politics, etc, etc) on immigrants and foreigners.
In any era, it's always easiest and most convenient for many simplistic thinkers to blame refugees and immigrants for a nation's internal problems.
Some analysis by military author and geopolitical expert Robert L. Maginnis:"Trump victory celebrated by anti-establishment Europeans; fervor building for 2017 elections. The Eurozone is responding to the Trump victory which is celebrated by Western Europe’s largest anti-establishment political forces. That celebration may very soon impact the European Union’s biggest economies which plan elections in 2017. Many voters on both sides of the Atlantic blame globalization for the loss of jobs and present immigration as a threat to national identity and security, a message that resonates with more people. We can anticipate elections in 2017 in the Netherlands, possibly in Italy, France and Germany. Those elections could trigger the end of the Eurozone, which would have geopolitical implications across the world."
The Populist-Nationalist Tide http://www.theamericanconservative.co...This article is worth running in full I feel:
Now that the British have voted to secede from the European Union and America has chosen a president who has never before held public office, the French appear to be following suit.
In Sunday’s runoff to choose a candidate to face Marine Le Pen of the National Front in next spring’s presidential election, the center-right Republicans chose Francois Fillon in a landslide.
While Fillon sees Margaret Thatcher as a role model in fiscal policy, he is a socially conservative Catholic who supports family values and wants to confront Islamist extremism, control immigration, restore France’s historic identity, and end sanctions on Russia.
“Russia poses no threat to the West,” says Fillon. But if not, the question arises, why NATO? Why are U.S. troops in Europe?
As Le Pen is favored to win the first round of the presidential election and Fillon the second in May, closer Paris-Putin ties seem certain. Europeans themselves are pulling Russia back into Europe, and separating from the Americans.
Next Sunday, Italy holds a referendum on constitutional reforms backed by Prime Minister Matteo Renzi. If the referendum, trailing in the polls, fails, says Renzi, he will resign.
Opposing Renzi is the secessionist Northern League, the Five Star Movement of former comedian Beppe Grillo, and the Forza Italia of former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a pal of Putin’s.
“Up to eight of Italy’s troubled banks risk failure” if Renzi’s government falls, says the Financial Times. One week from today, the front pages of the Western press could be splashing the newest crisis of the EU.
In Holland, the Party for Freedom of Geert Wilders, on trial for hate speech for urging fewer Moroccan immigrants, is running first or close to it in polls for the national election next March.
Meanwhile, the door to the EU appears to be closing for Muslim Turkey, as the European Parliament voted to end accession talks with Ankara and its autocratic president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
In welcoming Muslim immigrants, Germany’s Angela Merkel no longer speaks for Europe, even as she is about to lose her greatest ally, Barack Obama.
Not only Europe but the whole world President-elect Trump is about to inherit seems in turmoil, with old regimes and parties losing their hold, and nationalist, populist, and rightist forces rising.
Early this year, Brazil’s senate voted to remove leftist President Dilma Rousseff. In September, her predecessor, popular ex-President Lula da Silva, was indicted in a corruption investigation. President Michel Temer, who, as vice president, succeeded Rousseff, is now under investigation for corruption. There is talk of impeaching him.
Venezuela, endowed with more oil than almost any country on earth, is now, thanks to the Castroism of Hugo Chavez and successor Nicolas Maduro, close to collapse and anarchy.
NATO’s Turkey and our Arab ally, Egypt, both ruled by repressive regimes, are less responsive to U.S. leadership.
South Korean President Park Geun-hye, her approval rating in single digits, is facing impeachment and prosecution for corruption.
Meanwhile, North Korea, under Kim Jong Un, continues to test nuclear warheads and missiles that can hit all of South Korea and Japan and reach all U.S. bases in East Asia and the Western Pacific.
The U.S. is obligated by treaty to defend South Korea, where we still have 28,500 troops, and Japan, as well as the Philippines, where new populist President Rodrigo Duterte, cursing the West, is pivoting toward Beijing. Malaysia and Australia are also moving closer to China as they become ever more dependent on the China trade.
Responding to our moving NATO troops into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland, Putin has begun a buildup of nuclear-capable offensive and defensive missiles in Kaliningrad, its enclave between Poland and Lithuania.
Should we get into a confrontation with the Russians in the Eastern Baltic, how many of our NATO allies, some now openly pro-Putin, would stand beside us?
The point: not only is the Cold War over, the post-Cold War is over. We are living in a changed and changing world. Regimes are falling. Old parties are dying, new parties rising. Old allegiances are fraying, and old allies drifting away.
The forces of nationalism and populism have been unleashed all over the West and all over the world. There is no going back.
Yet U.S. policy seems set in concrete by war guarantees and treaty commitments dating back to the time of Truman and Stalin and Ike and John Foster Dulles.
America emerged from the Cold War, a quarter century ago, as the sole superpower. Yet it seems clear that we are not today so dominant a nation as we were in 1989 and 1991.
We have great rivals and adversaries. We are deeper in debt. We are more divided. We’ve fought wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen that availed us nothing. What we had, we kicked away.
America is at a plastic moment in history.
And America needs nothing so much as reflective thought about a quarter-century of failures—and fresh thinking about her future.
http://www.theamericanconservative.co...
James, what a great article. It says as it is . There is no agenda - just a statement of the misery created in the last 30 years. The west is at a crossroads. We are no longer the 'moral' leaders of what is socially or dare I say politically correct.
I think this article is well worth a read...Should we even go there? Historians on comparing fascism to Trumpism -- Recent events around the world have prompted debate about the historical parallels between our times and the period preceding the second world war https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...
Trump’s Immigration Executive Order Is A Blueprint For Mass Deportation -- No one should be lulled into believing otherwise. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/t...#DeleteUber starts trending worldwide amid Trump’s anti-immigration ban http://www.geekwire.com/2017/deleteub...
On this issue, I guess I find myself in the camp of those whom I usually consider my enemies. Typically, I have no sympathy with anything conservative or anything power-elite, or anything backwoods or racist. Yet, I am totally for closing our borders. Enough of this founding fathers b.s. The generousity and largess and charity conceived of in the God-fearing 1700s needs to taper off. We're being taken advantage of; people are getting a free ride. America is not responsible for the world's poor. Let's get real here.And I don't particularly care whether someone living comfortably in the UK or someone living comfortably in California or someone living comfortably in Sweden wants to dissect my feelings and tell me I'm un-American and unethical. How many of these idle rhetoricians live in New York City? Well, I sure do. And it's a madhouse. It's bedlam. The closest approximation you can find on Earth, to hell or Hades.
Emigration is simply one of the biggest international problems in this era and --flatly speaking--I'm for shutting it down for good. Live where you were born. If you dislike your country, then you stay there and work at making it better. Don't go somewhere else and bring your problems with you; don't saddle others with your chaos and drama. England, France, Germany, America--we already have enough problems of of our own. We've already sweated, slaved, struggled, and bled and died to make these nation-states stable. You want to enjoy a higher standard of living? Then make it happen in your own land. We'll give you every help we can.
Stop freeloading.
Feliks wrote: "Stop freeloading. ..."O...kay!
So I assume you're against America and other major Western nations freeloading off much of the rest of the world, especially the Third World, in regards to their mineral resources?
The immense poverty of such nations is not organic. Poverty is essentially an artificial construct. Such inequality globally creates the need for certain peoples to move to other nations.
All is interrelated.
Also, I don't think New York City is indicative of America-wide. Besides, many people liked NYC's multiculturalism and most New Yorkers I know hold an opinion completely counter to yours on immigrant communities.
You really believe most immigrants are freeloaders?
Wow, I beg to differ: immigrants improve the standard of living in many nations raising their economies especially through aiding the workforces in key fields (e.g. hospitals need immigrant nurses as not enough can usually be found within our own nationalities)...Some of the hardest working people on Earth are immigrants.
Lastly, America, like here in Australia, has always been a nation of immigrants. You can't rewrite history on that one.
P.S. I think we need to be careful in this thread, and also in this group in general, allowing things to accidentally become too Americocentric in discussion due to the large percentage of American members in the group. This is a global discussion group. The US is part of this recent swing to Far Right political viewpoints, but this whole Trump-inspired hate foreigners shit is actually BREXIT-inspired, which began all this and partly EU-inspred where other European nations are reverting back to post WW2 stances on immigrants.
A timely message in my opinion about Trump's policies from MARTIN HEINRICH United States Senator (New Mexico):Dear Friend,
Like many New Mexicans, I am sickened by an administration that now poses dangerous threats to the values and freedoms we all cherish.
During his first week in office, President Trump ordered an unraveling of the federal workforce, floated the idea of bringing back the CIA's use of 'black site' prisons and torture, imposed a gag order on federal agencies, ordered construction of a wall along our southern border, and revived the Keystone XL and Dakota pipeline projects.
All of this culminated with an executive order blocking refugees from around the world from entering the United States, including Hameed Khalid Darweesh whose life was in danger in his home country due to the work he did to help the U.S. military.
We are not a nation that turns our back on the innocent victims of terrorism or the allies who risked their own lives so that American soldiers may live.
We are not a country that discriminates based on how you pray.
President Trump's reckless actions seek to turn us into the kind of authoritarian nation that we have always stood against. This is not greatness, in fact, this is un-American.
Our immigrant communities have helped to write the economic, social, and cultural story of America. I know this firsthand. My own father is an immigrant who came to America as a boy to escape Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
I'm familiar with the promise America represents for families. I know how hard immigrants work, how much they believe in this country, how much they're willing to give back, and how different my own life would be if America had turned my father away.​
I will not stand aside as the values that created the greatest nation on earth are trampled.
Together, lifted by the incredible spirit of the American people, we will fight back against injustices and build a better future for our children and all future generations.
Sincerely,
MARTIN HEINRICH
United States Senator
Feliks I think you need look at different types immigrants before you refer to them all as 'freeloaders'. In USA, even the African Americans that were traded as economy from African countries can be considered immigrants, and they didn't get a choice. What about the people born in America who now live in other countries? Are they freeloaders?My aunt came here to Australia from England and definitely is not a freeloader. She isn't even eligible for Medicare. I have a friend who is originally from Poland, he has just finished his Phd (which he was required to get) and he has almost lived in Australia long enough to apply for citizenship. I also know an American family who were originally from Maine, but now live 1 hour from me. 1 is the same age as me and is a teacher. My great grandfather received farmland in Australia for his service in the Army (instead of a pension) and moved here with his family from Scotland. This was around the Great Depression, does that make him a freeloader?
A lot of the people that people smugglers and come to Australia by boat are not 'genuine refugees' however it is not illegal to use a boat to seek refuge in a country.
Feliks wrote: "On this issue, I guess I find myself in the camp of those whom I usually consider my enemies. Typically, I have no sympathy with anything conservative or anything power-elite, or anything backwoods..."You wrote: "America is not responsible for the world's poor. Let's get real here."
Really? So Americans are just innocent victims/bystanders, taking a hard hit from the fucked up world around it?
...and NYC would be a safer place to be, with a more booming economy? Hmmmmm....i wonder who was responsible for 8 million people losing their jobs and 6 million losing their homes...must have been these no good immigrant free-loaders!
Have you done research on this? Have you looked into how much immigrants help out in the US by running businesses or fight politically for a safer&stronger country? How many of them are actually a positive vs. Negative influence in society? How were you able to determine which of the freeloaders were of non-native American decent and need to be shipped to 'where the came from?'
No valid conclusion can come out of such a skewed premise....these are some harsh accusations and opinions......what do you consider immigrants? All non-native Americans? How do you fit into all this? Where did your family sail in from?
Other European countries freeloading off US? So you think there's a one way relationship between US and other countries? How about military contracts? How many of these countries do you think companies, such as Lockheed, sell military aircraft to? ...or how many of their weapons are provided so the middle east can kill each other off?
Oh wait...yeah...i can see it now...US is the only place in the world not benefitting from relationships with immigrants and other countries.
Your statement is so unfounded that i choose to believe that you were drunk out of your mind when you wrote it and only written for the purpose of seeing what kind of reaction you'd get!
Feliks wrote: "And I don't particularly care whether someone living comfortably in the UK or someone living comfortably in California or someone living comfortably in Sweden wants to dissect my feelings and tell me I'm un-American and unethical...."You're being un-American and unethical :)
Lisa wrote: "Other European countries freeloading off US? So you think there's a one way relationship between US and other countries? How about military contracts? How many of these countries do you think companies, such as Lockheed, sell military aircraft to? ...or how many of their weapons are provided so the middle east can kill each other off?..."Exactly.
The US is not handing out free lunches all over the world. Same goes for any other First World Western nation.
All that "charity" comes at a price.
Not to say the US does not aid in furthering the world at times, but it's the height of naivety to believe that the same nation that allows highly-corporatized individuals like Trump, Bush or Clinton to become President never has any vested interests.
I'm no fan of Prince Charles or the British Royals, but I think Old Charlie Boy makes a sound point here:Lessons of WW2 'in danger of being forgotten' warns Prince Charles amid controversy over Trump state visit http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/l...
Prince Charles has warned the "horrific lessons" of the Holocaust and World War II "seem to be in increasing danger of being forgotten" in what is being interpreted as a veiled reference to the rise of nationalism, populism and US President Donald Trump.
The heir to the throne, who was speaking at a fundraising dinner for the World Jewish Relief charity in London on Monday night, also urged people of faith to "extend a helping hand" "across the boundaries" of their own religions to wherever aid is needed.
Well, well, well...look what we got here...UK needs more immigrants to 'avoid Brexit catastrophe' https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...
Ageing population, labour shortages and low productivity mean UK needs net inward migration of 200,000 a year, says thinktank
James, that's not what T May seems to think. I gather she has increased the tax on imported workers. I suppose another answer could be to increase British productivity too.
PM May is political point scoring to earn brownie points with the naive and ill-informed public who have swung toward blaming immigrants. Why? An election is coming up! But despite her Trump-like bluffs she won't in the end alter immigration that much (should she remain in power) because she and her cabinet including economic advisors know the obvious: Britain desperately needs immigrants to keep everything running smoothly, just like every other Western nation does.Obvious fascism/bigotry/racism/xenophobia aside, the main reason immigration will never decrease much is it is literally not economically or fiscally feasible. Halting immigration (as many bigoted voters want), or even a sharp decrease in immigration, and the UK would be bankrupt or in a recession, or even a depression, within a year or two. In a more vulnerable nation like NZ that would occur much quicker.
Blaming immigrants, of course, is always a sure-fire way to collect a lot of votes (reference Trump in the US, Theresa May & Nigel Farage in the UK, Le Pen in France, Pauline Hanson in Australia, Winston Peters in NZ, etc, etc), but that doesn't mean that these politicians believe what they say or ever intend to drastically reduce immigration in the long run.
Revealed: how US billionaire helped to back Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/...Robert Mercer, who bankrolled Donald Trump, played key role with ‘sinister’ advice on using Facebook data
I bet his analytics would have trouble with my Facebook page :-) But this does show that money has a very bad effect on democracy. I tis one thing to pay for advertisements, etc, and spreading the message, but that sort of manipulation should be banned. Of course, how, is another problem.
No idea on the how.Seems impossible to stop, Ian.
Election results seem to be able to be purchased in this era.
Have to watch the May/Corbyn issue carefully :-)
This short video is a really good example of why immigrants don't cost countries money, but rather improve the economy in various ways. Japan has the lowest immigration rate in the world and economists say the Japanese economy is heading for a meltdown unless they open up their borders...Why does JAPAN need IMMIGRANTS? - VisualPolitik EN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLnE...
Wasn't it clever for fascists to rename themselves the Alt-Right? Since WW2, fascists were perceived to be so Far Right, so far off the scale, they were not even included in political debates. Suddenly this rebranded title is allowing them to get their hateful, Victorian-era ideologies into many mainstream political debates. Don't fall for it guys: Most of these Alt-Right statements amount to old-fashioned fascism.
Quite like this statement from the What The Thought site: http://www.whatthethought.com/politic...The alt-right comes up with all kinds of terms designed to make folks think the regressive way of thinking is superior to any other out there. One of those is “snowflakes” which is what the Nazis called the ashes floating in the air from the ovens during WWII when they were incinerating Jews and others.
And then we have “cucks”- which basically is a condescending term designed to make the opposition seem inferior to the “superior” ideology of fascism. In case you just fell off the turnip truck, the idea of subjugating yourself to any ideology that sets up a very small minority as superior goes against every possible principle of democracy and human decency. People who want everyone to have a decent life are somehow “inferior.”
Reality is different. Anyone with a neuron firing periodically should see that the elite and their octopus corporations are stealing the labor and well being of each and every one of us. It’s done through endless wars, pollution of the environment and paying wages that no one can possibly live on. Racism, misogyny and outright hatred are just how all this is accomplished. Yet, there are folks who cheer their own destruction, who see themselves as unworthy of the slightest amount of human decency and respect and who falsely believe they are somehow “superior” because of some ideology.
http://www.whatthethought.com/politic...
I thought these short videos in this undercover NY Times article were revealing:Undercover With the Alt-Right https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/op...
Can this really be happening in the West?
All these years after WW2 when we saw all the wrongs of fascism and eugenics etc??
Also, what the Far Right American fascist says (in one of the videos in above link) about the most powerful thing in politics is "being able to frame the debate", is very true in my opinion. We seem to be seeing more and more journalists asking leading questions about minorities, immigrants etc, that somehow force people to answer along those inflammatory lines...Which all fuels this infantile nationals vs. foreigners debate instead of drawing attention to the more important issues facing society.
James wrote: "I thought these short videos in this undercover NY Times article were revealing:Undercover With the Alt-Right https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/op...?..."
Aye, it's fucking crazy and sickening. On the one hand, we remember the atrocities of WWII at least once a year and say 'how could this have ever happened' and on the other there's the rise of exactly the same Hitler mentalities. It is unbelievable - and yet not, when you look at how it's been orchestrated - with the media and internet peddling it, not to mention 'the elite' who have been moving their pawns into place ever since 911.
"Framing the debate" is exactly what's going on. I thought the same the other day when Merkel won the election again in Germany, but the media focused more on the rise of the Far Right party who gained votes - just like every other European election lately. Er... but they fucking lost!!
Just remember, there will ALWAYS be more of us than them. If Hitler couldn't win, then neither can these ignorant arseholes.
I sometimes wish I could have a face-to-face debate with White Nationalists - or whatever they call themselves these days. I mean, forgetting the overt racism for a minute, I want to just ask them about the logicality of their ideas.When people like those in those videos posted above say they want each country to be (quote) "ethnically defined homelands", I want to ask them:
1) Why do you think that that is best when the majority of people don't agree with you? If you actually were able to do it, the vast majority wouldn't want it, so why do you think you are right and that the few people like yourselves have the right to determine the fate of the vast majority who don't agree with you?
2) If you were able to actually do it, how would it even be possible? What, in this day and age, where black people, Indian people, Pakistani people etc. etc. are born in, say, the UK, do you constitute as "ethnically defined homelands"? The UK ISN'T defined by ethnicity any more - and it hasn't been for centuries and centuries, if you go beyond the colour of people's skin colour.
3) What would you do with people of mixed race?
4) Have you done a DNA test yourself to see what your ethnic make up actually is?
5) Why are you so for dividing people into categories geographically? Why is that a good thing?
6) Would you still eat curry and holiday on the Costa Del Sol?
O.K, I'm getting carried away now...
So: are there any White Supremacists who believe in this bullshit out there reading this? If so, I'd love to have your answers.
I think comedian Stewart Lee summed it all up pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgeX...
Harry wrote: "I sometimes wish I could have a face-to-face debate with White Nationalists - or whatever they call themselves these days. I mean, forgetting the overt racism for a minute, I want to just ask them ..."Nicely summarised Harry... as always!
(Please forgive me, though, James, as I don't think this is necessarily what you had in mind. ;-) )
Yes, there ..."
Melora, where to start…..It would really help your arguments if you actually took the time to read our comments as they are formulated by us, rather than create your own spin on them and thereby void them of all valid content.
I have not yet read a comment in this thread where anyone has expressed negativity towards the Native Americans. The white man treated the Indians quite badly and personally I think it is horrible that we celebrate Thanksgiving….but this does not mean that I think that every white man to come to America treated the natives horribly…..besides, immigration issues today cannot be compared to those back then…we live in a different world now.
You wrote: “It's a morbid thought, but I also can't help but wonder if some conflicted soul, back then, was telling their peers, "Dear fellow tribe members, you have more in common with the European immigrants than their oppressors", or something along those lines. I'm glad, though, that no one was calling the Native Americans "racist cunts", then, because that would have just added insult to eventual, horrific injury.)”
I had to read that three times, because like so many other paragraphs of yours, I couldn’t believe you just wrote that! Are you even understanding the arguments being made here?
I know this is hard for you to understand, but I believe that as human beings, we share this world……we did not create it and being born on a specific piece of land does not mean we should be confined to it.
I believe in Universal Citizenry where you can live in a place you feel safe, find shelter, food, and care for your family. Do we not all have the rights of our basic needs being met?
This has nothing to do with brutal crimes. The kind of fear you have for immigrants is a part of the reason why this world is so fucked up!
Instead of helping each other utilize this world’s resources, we are so focused on keeping the goods to ourselves! I guarantee you if you asked these migrants if they’d go back to their homeland if they could, that most of them would.
When it comes to survival, we do what we need to do. It is morbid to think about that there are people out there who are OK with sending innocent children and adults back to their homeland to live in fear and torture, where I’m guessing one would perhaps feel lucky to die…..but hey, as long as they’re not in my neighborhood…
Your words: "The media and the world's leaders (including the Elite) have been carefully programming you to say exactly what you are saying, and you're not even pausing to question any of it."
So, the elite has programmed me to have compassion towards my fellow humans?
I have not taken the time to watch all the youtube links yet, but I did look at the various websites you have posted in your most recent posts….the websites appear to be somewhat biased….like for instance
http://joemiller.us/2016/06/walmart-h... Joe miller an Alaskan Republican endorsed by Sarah Palin….not a website I would go to in order to find unbiased or untainted facts.
Regarding the link you used for the Swedish zones being taken over, you used Speisa as a source. I’d be careful using Speisa as reference webpage: http://www.scamadviser.com/check-webs... and http://editindia.blogspot.se/2015/04/...
A source you mentioned was Express.co.uk or the Daily Express….from Wikipedia: “The Daily Express has become a supporter of UK Independence Party (UKIP),[2][3][4] acting as a financial backer and closely follows the party line.´
….and do you know who the leader of UKIP is? Yes, Nigel Farage! So yes, another right winged biased website.
Again, please give unbiased sources…..if you are going to post politically biased or endorsed material, then please show the same facts from non-biased websites to validate your statements. I did not watch the youtube videos, because you have given too many sources which I don’t find reliable, that I don’t see a reason to waste my time on videos as well.
Another source was Sputniknews.com ….this is what Wikipedia says under the heading “Criticism&Controversy”:
“In March 2016, access to Sputnik's online content was blocked by Turkish authorities, as well as denying the Turkish bureau chief Tural Kerimov access to the country. The move is thought to have been in response to comments by the Russian leadership that were critical of Presidant Recep Tayyip Erdoğan regarding the Turkish administration's record on human rights and freedom of speech.[20][21]
The US based Foreign Policy magazine has described Sputnik as a slick and internet-savvy outlet of Kremlin propaganda, which "remixes President Vladimir Putin’s brand of revanchist nationalism for an international audience...beating a predictable drum of anti-Western rhetoric."[4] Such views were also voiced by the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA), which argues that Sputnik spreads biased information. For instance, CEPA argues that Sputnik invites only a select group of commenting politicians, especially those known for their pro-Russian views.[5] CEPA is a Washington DC based think tank promoting strategic US presence in Eastern Europe.[22]
German journalist and author Michael Thumann has described Sputnik as being part of what he calls Russia's "digital information war against the West".[23] Alexander Podrabinek, a Russian journalist who works for the French government funded Radio France Internationale[24][25] and the US government funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty[26] has accused Sputnik of disseminating Russian state propaganda abroad.[8]”
I would definitely check other sources before trusting this website….not saying it’s all false information, just that it is not wise to use as a reference for your arguments.
I don’t recall anybody in this thread thinking Obama is a saint or a savior….the notion that Obama and Hillary are shady, I think this is common knowledge….something we can agree on!
….please read the posts the way they are written!!!!
….and no thank you….I’m not going to type “Migrant crime Europe” in the youtube search box….this is a bias directed search statement in itself.
Another one of your statements: “In all truth, one would have to be something of a sociopath to continue to deny that there is a serious problem in Europe, after seeing such things with their own eyes.”
You got me a little worried….you are starting to sound like Anders Behring Breivik…..remember him? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_...
You said: “And finally, Lisa, my posts are so lengthy simply because this is an issue that is far, far more complex and convoluted than any of you are making it out to be. Given the enormous gravity of the situation, jokes, obscene slurs and one-liners just don't seem appropriate.”
You know what is most concerning about this issue? Is the blatant discrimination of human rights…..immigrants have the right to basic needs in this world as well, and people with false concerns, such as yours, are making it difficult for the people in this world to take care of each other…..
How can you be so against the elite, yet so bigoted against the human race? This sounds contradictory to me.
You also wrote: “Again, this has all been very surreal; in all of the discussions, debates and forums that I've read and participated in online, thus far, people have been very civil, curious and open-minded -- there were no," People are just racists" or "Anyone who has an opposing viewpoint is a cunt" -type comments. The vast majority of people have just been interested in learning the truth, and comprehend the fact that Europe is at a very critical juncture point, at this time in history.”
Just out of curiosity, which sites were those debates on?
By the way, yes there is a concern….crime is a concern! Helping these people is a concern! Learning the truth is of concern! Racism is a concern! Segregation is a concern!
And you wrote: “It would also dictate that, if one truly cares about the migrants, they would search for ways to assist them in their own countries of origin -- which would be a far more logical and productive approach, on multiple levels. “
OK…so why don’t we just nuke the shit out of their country in order to eliminate the radical terrorists! That would leave the ground and the air viable for human life!!!
I am not an expert on this issue, nor do I have thousands of one sided (or multi sided) research and news articles stored on my computer. I have no doubt that you have spent more time and energy learning your side of this issue than I have spent on all sides combined. So kudos to you….I suggest you humor me a little bit and read my sentences the way I wrote them, rather than the way you re-write them in your mind….I’m guessing you’ll realize that many of us, including yourself, have many of the same fundamental concepts in common. So, please, try looking into this issue as a humanitarian and in a non-political view.