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message 1: by Gabriela (new)

Gabriela Leite | 1 comments Emma Watson twitted #EstuproNaoÉCulpaDaVitima - she wrote in portuguese, in support brazilian women, and that means "Rape is not the victim's fault".

Protests erupted in several Brazilian cities over the weekend in outrage over the gang rape of a 16-year-old girl in Rio de Janeiro. The gang rape was amplified online as photo and video of the assault was posted to social media and replicated thousands of times over with every view, and misogynistic comment celebrating the men's actions and declaring the girl had "been asking for it".

The girl has been criticized for being in the wrong place with the wrong people, called a slut for having a child with only 13 years old. They blamed her for what happened.

NEVER blame the victim.

This has to end in Brazil and all the world.

"Alleged crime." "Purported evidence." "She was very promiscuous." "She was high." "She was drunk." "Look at her clothes." "What was she doing there anyway?" "She asked for it". - These charges do not happen only in Brazil. We must end the Rape Culture.

Less silent and more scream. Less fear and more courage.

Feminism is the solution. To this end there has to be a real Gender Equality.

What is your opinion about the Rape Culture?

(P.S: My english is not good, sorry) ;)


message 2: by James (new)

James Corprew Rape= bad.

Pretty standard really and its incredibly troubling when incidents like Brazil and India happen where gang rape is more prevalent. Its even worse when men (and sometimes other women) condone, encourage, and celebrate such actions. I dont think you will find too many people in the world who accept it on a larger scale.


message 3: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (directorsherry) | 20 comments Gabriela wrote: "Emma Watson twitted #EstuproNaoÉCulpaDaVitima - she wrote in portuguese, in support brazilian women, and that means "Rape is not the victim's fault".

Protests erupted in several Brazilian cities o..."
Absolutely not the victim's fault! I am very sorry this happened to this young woman. I hope there are those close to her who will help and support her through this continued assault. I definitely support all women everywhere who have to face this.


message 4: by Yaya (new)

Yaya Fay | 2 comments I think it all has to start with teaching more about consent and what it really means. Many men still believe that it is ok to have sex with a drunk girl. I heard stories where women got groped by random men just because they went to an apres-ski party. As if they ask for it, because they attend this kind of party...
In no scenario it should be allowed or even considered to touch someones body without their permission.

Rape is the most horrifying thing I can imagine to happen to anyone. Women have to stick together more, stop slut-shaming each other, and demand the respect and rights that we deserve for a equal society, no matter where on the world. It is 2016 and I think this is long overdue.


message 5: by Agustin (last edited Jun 04, 2016 09:07AM) (new)

Agustin | 223 comments How infurating! How is it possible that there are "people" who support this?


message 6: by Jillian (last edited Jun 04, 2016 02:23PM) (new)

Jillian | 26 comments Emma wrote: "Gabriela wrote: They deserve help, not criticism and blame. I do hope that we are the generation of feminists to bring that help."


Beautifully said. I do share that exact same hope. That we are the generation to get there. Victim blaming cannot be a thing still in 2016. Same with slut shaming, for that matter.

Another thing that may or may not be off topic is something I hear they consider in Germany. It is being discussed whether in the future there should be train compartments for women only so they can be safer, especially when travelling at night by themselves. When I first read that, I was so angry and sad and frustrated and shocked and full of disbelief at the very same time. How can we even consider taking such a massive, dangerous step back? Giving women their own compartments to feel safe is like saying "If you want to be safe, go elsewhere", which is not only the most ridiculous, sexist thing I've heard in a very long time, but in my opinion is nothing but a herald for "If you don't want to be raped, stay at home". What are those kind of people going to suggest next? A curfew for women who don't want to get raped and then being accused of having asked for it because why did they leave the safety of their homes in the first place? Not to mention how children and men and everyone else feeling unsafe on trains at night or at any point are completely being left out of those considerations. I for one, do not have the slightest interest in seperated train compartments for different genders. I'd like to go out to wherever I like and feel equally safe, no matter where.

So that would be my opinion on the matter.

Edit: I actually have one more thought to share.
I have just been thinking about how often gruesome things such as rape must be happening out there without the majority of people even taking note of it. I find it courageous and so important that some of the victims do stand up and make it public, as that's the only way we can spread awareness for such a huge issue. I see how terrifying the mere thought of sharing such a dreadful experieje must be, that's why I, personally, consider the victims who do raise their voices to heard and to share what has been done to them pretty heroic. They are rasing their voices for all the people who've gone thrpugh the same, they spread awareness, they encourage the debate and fuel change and the last thing they would ever deserve is being slut shamed and victim blamed.


message 7: by James (new)

James Corprew And the tragedy of the U.S. legal system continues. The fact that the father tries to excuse and say the current punishment is too much enrages me. The victim handled herself well though and hopefully she is able to get help and cope with what happened to her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

"The father of the 20-year-old Stanford University swimmer found guilty of raping an unconscious 23-year-old woman at a campus party has penned a letter saying his son is paying a high price for '20 minutes of action'.

Brock Allen Turner was found guilty Thursday for sexually assaulting the woman, who has not been identified.

He has been sentenced to six months in a county jail with probation.


On Sunday, Turner's father, Dan A. Turner, penned an open letter about the verdict of the rape case, arguing his son's jail sentence 'isn't an appropriate punishment'.

'As it stands now, Brock's life has been deeply altered forever by the events of January 17 and 18,' the letter begins.

'He will never be his happy go lucky (sic) self with that easy-going personality and welcoming smile.

'His every waking moment is consumed with worry, anxiety, fear and depression,' the father began the letter."


message 8: by Christine (new)

Christine Periña | 67 comments Hearing some news about rape and the brutality they did on the victim totally breaks my heart. I've always thought that being raped is the worst thing I've ever heard and it is definitely not the victims fault.

We are all terrified of being that victim. Our most vulnerable parts savaged. Our personalities violated and no mental escape from that for the rest of our lives .. As a woman, I could see the fear in the victims eyes and could feel the pain in her trembling hands ..

I am very sorry for what happened on that young woman :( you know this is the reason why we need feminism! The world needs feminism!


message 9: by Cassie (new)

Cassie Kilbarger | 6 comments @James Since reading the Father's letter and the sentence itself, I feel that it is a perfect example of how the rape culture is made okay. For this kid, it started at home. The father doesn't seem like the kind who would sit down with his boy and have a discussion of what to- do and what not to- do when presented with a drunk, unconscious girl. In fact, the father seems to pin point the son's inebriation as the crime committed. It sickens me and shows that there is a need to teach our children how to respect another person's boundaries and then when they're older, teach them no means no.


message 10: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 149 comments James wrote: "And the tragedy of the U.S. legal system continues. The fact that the father tries to excuse and say the current punishment is too much enrages me. The victim handled herself well though and hopefu..."
I agree with the father on this. Jail time isn't an appropriate punishment. Jail is mostly about retribution rather than rehabilitation. This is is the appropriate place and time to say we need to teach someone not to rape. The kid needs counseling


message 11: by Alana (new)

Alana  | 5 comments Here is a link to the statement written by the woman in the Stanford case. It is absolutely heartbreaking what happened to her and shows how the legal system in the United States is designed to protect the perpetrators of these crimes, while re-victimizing the actual victims by making them relive what happened to them over and over again, scrutinizing every detail of their personal lives, all in effort to make excuses for the perpetrators of these crimes.

*Before clicking on this link, please know that the statement goes into great detail about the sexual assault that the woman in the Stanford case suffered. Reading about these details may be upsetting to some people, so I want to make sure you are aware before proceeding.*

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker...

I commend this woman for her bravery and courage to speak out and share her story, and hope that she inspires others to speak out against rape culture and victim blaming. What I find incredibly disturbing about this case is that the focus seems to be about how this case has disrupted the life of the perpetrator of this crime--he was kicked out of school, lost a swimming scholarship, Olympic dreams dashed, etc. and that the lifetime of suffering this woman has to endure because of this man's actions has been vastly ignored. In fact, the perpetrator of this crime seems to believe the biggest mistake he made was drinking too much that night, not committing an act of sexual assault, and he has yet to take responsibility for his actions. I believe the light jail sentence is a gross miscarriage of justice, and that we need harsher penalties for those who commit this kind of crime to show that we will stand up for the victims, and that this behavior will not be tolerated in our society. What the perpetrator did to this woman that night will stay with her for the rest of her life, and I think that at the very minimum he deserves a few years in jail to reflect on how his decision to sexually assault an unconscious woman has impacted HER life.

I hope that as more stories like this are shared, that the conversation will shift from blaming the victims of sexual assault for the actions of their perpetrators, and instead focus on punishing those who actually commit these crimes, and educate about consent. Fact: If a person is unable to speak or stand, they are not capable of giving consent.


message 12: by Katelyn, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Katelyn (katelynrh) | 836 comments Mod
I read a great quote earlier on my Facebook newsfeed, not sure where it originated, that pointed out how we value the male perpetrator's future while demonizing the female victim's past. We prioritize his potential by using her past as a means to discredit her.


message 13: by Bunny (last edited Jun 07, 2016 12:02PM) (new)

Bunny I'm sorry James and Jessica but you are simply flat wrong on this one. Perhaps you have just been misinformed as to what took place. To be clear. This young man went to a party. He found a woman who was very drunk. He took her from the party, away from her friends and out behind a dumpster, where he pushed her onto the ground and removed some of her clothing. He then started to push his fingers and other foreign objects into her vagina.

He was mounting her when two passers by saw him and asked him what he was doing. He then tried to run away and had to be chased down and restrained while the police were called. When he was questioned he claimed that he had blacked out and couldn't remember what happened. Only when he learned that she couldn't remember the events did his memory suddenly, conveniently, return so he could claim that she had consented. To being shoved behind a dumpster and assaulted. Clearly this story makes sense. NOT.

Then, rather than taking any kind of responsibility for his actions he and his legal team tried for over a year to blame her for her assault. Even when convicted by a jury he is still trying to avoid and deflect and dodge responsibility by blaming everyone and everything but himself. He has made no effort whatsoever to make any kind of amends or enter any kind of program, or to do anything but deny culpability.

Having been convicted of three felony counts that carry a six year term, and having been instead given a six month sentence with the option of parole after three, he is STILL planning to fight to have even that overturned. This person is not safe to be around other people. He has repeatedly demonstrated that he does not know what he did wrong, and therefore there is no reason to believe he would not do it again if he saw an opportunity.

Six months with probation is not an adequate sentence. It just isn't. It sends a message that if you are white and wealthy and male you can do any damn thing you like, and you will get a slap on the wrist.


message 14: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (directorsherry) | 20 comments Alana wrote: "Here is a link to the statement written by the woman in the Stanford case. It is absolutely heartbreaking what happened to her and shows how the legal system in the United States is designed to pro..."
I read this in it's entirety. It affected me deeply. I have been through sexual assaults with two loved ones and the years it takes to make a peace with it. The courage, compassion and articulate clarity of this young woman is breathtaking. Maybe his sentence should be to stand before an audience every day and read her letter out loud.


message 15: by Bunny (last edited Jun 07, 2016 11:09AM) (new)

Bunny I agree that the courage and clarity of the young woman is breathtaking. The contrast between her spectacular dignity and the craven bullshit of the father claiming his son deserves leniency because he's sad about having been caught... Its so glaring.

Also those two Swedish students are heroes.


message 16: by Marina (new)

Marina | 314 comments Hm, about the train compartments, why not provide the option? It's become normal here in Russia, generally just one wagon/car out of 10 or so, in which the compartments can be for males, females or mixed gender. It's for overnight trains, so this minimizes the hassle of changing into your night clothes if you wish to, etc. My Ukrainian friend once shared a compartment with a couple who had sex there several times, ugh.
I agree that this shouldn't be the main action to prevent rape, and this is binary-normative too, but as long as it's optional, why not? Also, we have a significant percentage of Muslims, and afaiu it's good for them to know in advance that there will be only women in the compartment. (not sure if this allows them to travel without a man though)


message 17: by James (last edited Jun 07, 2016 12:19PM) (new)

James Corprew Katelyn wrote: "I read a great quote earlier on my Facebook newsfeed, not sure where it originated, that pointed out how we value the male perpetrator's future while demonizing the female victim's past. We priorit..."

This has always kind of been my biggest beef with our legal system regarding many crimes. We still to this day say "so and so despite committing a crime has rights" but we often fail to remember that said criminal or perpetrator disregarded or violated someone elses rights in the process. Is it sad or disappointing when someone like the Stanford boy commits rape at such a young age? Yes. But this does not mean he should be coddled or given a pass for said crime. Im a firm believer in personal accountability and while no one is perfect everything and every choice we make in life either has its rewards or consequences. This young man made a choice and therefore should face the consequences of said choice. Worrying about his future while downplaying the scars mentally and emotionally of the female victim is just another slap in the face to her violation.


message 18: by Bunny (new)

Bunny I think the notion that single sex train cars are somehow safer than mixed is pretty questionable. Seems to me that safety is more likely to be found in a strong community of all genders that doesn't enable or condone assault and in having quick ways to call for help from that community if needed. To suggest that the only way to be safe in public spaces is either to exclude men from them or else to segregate women in a guarded corner... seems to me that's ceding the public space to the worst behaved instead of providing ways to identify and remove them.


message 19: by James (new)

James Corprew Bunny wrote: "I'm sorry James and Jessica but you are simply flat wrong on this one. Perhaps you have just been misinformed as to what took place. To be clear. This young man went to a party. He found a woman wh..."

I think you have me confused with someone else. I do not agree with the father at all and think the offender should be in prison much longer than 6 months.


message 20: by Bunny (last edited Jun 07, 2016 12:03PM) (new)

Bunny I apologize James, I read Jessica's post too fast and thought she was quoting you and then saying she agreed with you that the sentence was too severe. I had read several posts recently saying that it was a tragedy that the justice system was being so unfair to the perpetrator. So when I read the portion of your post she quoted I connected those in my mind. When actually she was quoting and DISagreeing with you. Poor pre caffeine reading comprehension. I will edit.


message 21: by James (new)

James Corprew Bunny wrote: "I apologize James, I read Jessica's post too fast and thought she was quoting you and then saying she agreed with you that the sentence was too severe. I had read several posts recently saying that..."

Its all good.


message 22: by Bunny (last edited Jun 07, 2016 12:23PM) (new)

Bunny The names of the two men who interrupted the Stanford rape are Carl-Fredrik Arndt and Peter Jonsson. They are PhD students in engineering. They deserve recognition and appreciation for being what we should expect of decent humans. More people like them please. On campus, in train cars, on streets, in the world.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/m...


message 23: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 149 comments Emma wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I agree with the father on this. Jail time isn't an appropriate punishment. Jail is mostly about retribution rather than rehabilitation. This is is the appropriate place and time to..."

Not that I am aware of


message 24: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 149 comments Bunny wrote: "I'm sorry James and Jessica but you are simply flat wrong on this one. Perhaps you have just been misinformed as to what took place. To be clear. This young man went to a party. He found a woman wh..."
That's perfectly fine you don't have to agree. A few years ago, I wouldn't have agreed with you. The reason I changed my mind was because of a professor I had. She gave us questions to think about at the beginning of every class. One day, it was about which way we should punish a rapist. The majority of us, including me, wanted to throw the book at the rapist. Afterwards the teacher suggested that wouldn't be the best idea. She said that inside prison, they wouldn't be learning to change or that what they did was wrong. Instead, what they learn in prison is more likely to cement their beliefs. She told us that getting them immediate counseling is the best course. Do I still have a gut reaction going the other direction? Definitely. In my opinion, acting in a reactionary manner doesn't change anything


message 25: by Bunny (last edited Jun 07, 2016 08:10PM) (new)

Bunny That would be fine if he were going to get counseling. Or if he were going to be sentenced to some sort of restorative justice action. Or if he were going to be required to learn what he did wrong and why it was wrong. But that's not what is happening here. What's happening here is he's getting almost no consequence at all. He's being allowed to go on believing he did nothing wrong and is the victim of a permissive society that should have protected him from his own impulses. Meanwhile people without his privilege are being sent to jail for decades for the same offense. Its blatantly preferential treatment of a privileged person. Which isn't just about him and what he needs. Its about a deeply unjust system.

There was a really good post... hang on...
https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/...

This here is the problem, some guys are entitled pricks and they’re entitled pricks because their fathers and coaches and friends taught them to be entitled pricks. Because they are entitled pricks they think they can have whatever they want, and that their worth is defined by what they have and what they take.
It is right that we shame him and his father and the friend who came to his defense and the judge and every other entitled prick we meet.

Just as important we need to love our boys, and teach them the dignity of the body and how to live through disappointment and confusion and how to navigate confusing feelings and how to separate feelings from action and how to communicate and listen. We need to redefine for them what it is to be a man.



message 26: by Marina (new)

Marina | 314 comments as I said, the train thing is not just about safety but privacy. for example in a mixed gender compartment, people are expected to leave the compartment and let each other change clothes or whatever. also, i do think it allows more young women to travel alone - my parents are much less reluctant to let me when this option is available.
my UK friend also said that the women-only waiting area on her station was desegregated. idk, i think these steps should be reserved for when true equality is reached. especially when they're taken due to pressure from the MRA's who complain that women-only safe spaces discriminate against men.
(i don't think these systems are perfect, mostly because of their hetero- and binary-normativity)

"and then when they're older, teach them no means no. "
I'm seeing many advocating teaching this from a young age, like for example not forcing the kid to hug a family member or respecting the autonomy if you're tickling your kid and they tell you to stop.


message 27: by Nivedita (new)

Nivedita (silverstockings) | 2 comments Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit. It is a shame that the society often blames the victim. But how do we change this? How do we build a better society? Is it enough to keep discussing about rape in public platforms? I think awareness begins at an individual's home. All these so called 'men' were once innocent boys. We should teach our sons to respect women. Not teach our daughters to stay at home. Lets start with the boys.


message 28: by Lily (new)

Lily (inquisitorlily) The guys that interrupted the Stanford rape give me a little bit of hope for humanity in general. I have to admit that I'm scared of men when I hear about cases like this, even though I know logically not every man I meet is like this. (I am working on this with my therapist, it's just obviously a very slow process.)

Like others have said, you have to start by educating guys--and maybe their dads too--about respecting women.


message 29: by Jillian (last edited Jun 09, 2016 04:21AM) (new)

Jillian | 26 comments The Stanford rape case is such a massive clash of two very contradictory extremes. On one hand we have Brock and his dad and his lawyers who make me lose all faith in humanity - and in common sense, for that matter. And on the other hand we have these two amazing guys who are not only emotionally affected by witnessing such gruesome act and realise it's wrong, but also take immediate action to actually get that poor woman out of there! Reading about that case has me on an emotional roller coaster ride that is threatening to make my mind burst. I find it a perfect example for the what's wrong with this world and what's the only f***ing right thing to do for a "decent human", as Bunny put it.


message 30: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 149 comments Bunny wrote: "That would be fine if he were going to get counseling. Or if he were going to be sentenced to some sort of restorative justice action. Or if he were going to be required to learn what he did wrong ..."
It sounds like that for the most part we agree. I don't agree that we should push for harsher sentencing because other people are getting harsher sentencing. It doesn't serve justice either way. We do need to push for a better procedure that serves all in a better way, which I think we also agree. I disagree with that post completely. Using shame for social control no matter the direction it comes from.


message 31: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 149 comments Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit. It is a shame that the society often blames the victim. But how do we change this? How do we build a better society? Is it enough to keep ..."
In my opinion, part of the problem is the media. Because the victim is protected by law from media ( and rightly so), the media tends tends to focus on the suspected criminal. And that is who we get to know. The victim remains, for the most part, a nameless and faceless entity. Studies do show that we are more likely to support those we know over those we don't. In my opinion, one of the ways to fix this would be to keep the suspected criminal from the media eye as well.


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

For those of you who want to know more about what happened in Brazil:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05...


message 33: by Bunny (last edited Jun 17, 2016 08:53PM) (new)

Bunny The judge in the Stanford rape case has been removed from another sexual assault case at the request of the District Attorney, who cited concerns over his ability to fairly adjudicate cases of this nature.

Persky is the subject of a recall campaign following his sentencing of former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner earlier this month to six months in jail for sexually assaulting an unconscious woman behind a dumpster outside a frat party. Persky imposed the sentence despite prosecutors' recommendation of a six-year prison term and it sparked widespread outrage by critics who said Persky, a Stanford alum, gave Turner a slap on the wrist. Turner is expected to serve only three months and must register as a sex offender.

The sentence was so unpopular that at least 10 prospective jurors in yet another unrelated case last week asked Persky to release them from jury duty because they said they could not serve under him.

In his statement, District Attorney Rosen said his decision to remove Persky was "a rare and carefully considered step for our office" and he left open the possibility that he would seek to disqualify the judge in future cases


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-wa...


message 34: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

About that phrase and other posters who worte that they're scared of men, let me tell you that women also rape: both males and females, just as both males and females steal, kill, torture and commit other crimes. That thing that only men rape or that in most cases rape is perpetrated by men than by women kind of frustrates me. The reason that cases of female rapists are not as well-known as cases perpetrated by men is that, for example, when a man is raped by a woman he either doesn't want to talk about it out of shame (just as many female rape victims) or because they are aware that nobody is going to believe them, or sadly, in many cases, people find men being raped by women funny, as if it were to be taken less seriously than female victims of rape.

In my humble opinion, we shoudn't say that rape is the worst crime men or women can commit, but that it's one of the worst crimes humans in general can commit, aside from murder, torture or human trafficking.


message 35: by James (last edited Jun 19, 2016 09:11AM) (new)

James Corprew Agustin wrote: "Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

About that phrase and other posters who worte that they're scared of men, let me tell you that women also rape: both ..."


I dont think Nivedita meant to offend or single out men but its also a known fact that most rapes are men on women rape. Thats not to dismiss when men are raped at all and you have some valid points about it not being taken seriously. In fact, just last night i posted a meme that had 3 scantily clad females sitting and messing around with a guy who was passed out on the bed. The caption stated "Just imagine how different your opinion would be if it was 3 dudes rubbing themselves over a passed out check". I had a friend who immediately took offense and thought i was saying that men on women rape was not an issue when that clearly wasnt the case. But it goes to show how dismissive people can be when the shoe is on the other foot. I think my biggest problem right now though is the justice system and how rapist are handled in terms of punishment. The Stanford case is a perfect example of how the justice system has failed women a majority of the time. But back to your point, yes, it really should be addressed as human on human sex crimes.


message 36: by Patrícia (new)

Patrícia Colombo (paticolombo) | 1 comments Hi guys!
I'm Brazilian, and I have to say that the situation is pretty bad here in Brazil. After the articles about the collective rape that happened here, I've been listening things that make me want to live in other country. There's a lot of people here who support the victim, go to the streets and try to show that it's not the victim's fault, but there's a lot of people who blame the girl as well.
During my day, I hear people say things like "I saw the video, she was enjoying" and "she ask for it, look at her clothes", and this kind of stuff make me so mad that I feel like I'm gonna throw up.
Hear people that I had in pretty high esteem saying things like that is really sad, I stopped to talk with a lot of friends.
P.S.: Sorry for my english, it's not very good.


message 37: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments James wrote: "Agustin wrote: "Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

About that phrase and other posters who worte that they're scared of men, let me tell you that women ..."


I know she doesn't mean to make offensive, misandrist comments, but still, thank you for getting my point.


message 38: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

I did not find her comments offensive or suggestive she dislikes men, though the kind of men, rapists, she is talking about here she has every right to dislike them.

I think she is correct and it is not against men in general to say so her point as I understand it is that for an individual man the worst of crimes to commit is rape. It is a violation a taking of choice from the victim of something that should only ever been given it de-powers and humiliates effecting self-esteem at the deepest level.

Also it has deliberate element of cruelty it is never quick or unconscious rage like murder can be for example. The effects are well know indeed so much so men use as weapon in war. Such men and it is almost exclusively men deserve all the criticisms she wishes to impart on them.


message 39: by Nivedita (new)

Nivedita (silverstockings) | 2 comments Agustin wrote: "Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

About that phrase and other posters who worte that they're scared of men, let me tell you that women also rape: both ..."


I'm really sorry if my comment seemed offensive. That is not what I intended at all. But thank you for pointing out my mistake. I know that rape by women is also an equally serious issue that people tend to overlook. Maybe I should've framed my sentences better. Anyways, I get your point.


message 40: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Miller (rosethorn7) | 123 comments Gabriela wrote: "Emma Watson twitted #EstuproNaoÉCulpaDaVitima - she wrote in portuguese, in support brazilian women, and that means "Rape is not the victim's fault".

Protests erupted in several Brazilian cities o..."

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I have seen in many scenarios where the victim is blamed for it and is shunned and mocked by other people and members in her family. You see this especially in places such as Asia and South America, but I am sure it happens everywhere. Being raped is already bad, but to call the victim a slut and blame it on her, is just wrong. It isn't and wasn't her fault.


message 41: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments Ross wrote: "Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

I did not find her comments offensive or suggestive she dislikes men, though the kind of men, rapists, she is talking..."


I know she didn't mean to offend anyone, and I never said such thing. But are you going to deny the fact that men are not the only ones who commit rape? Are you aware that women also rape?


message 42: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments Nivedita wrote: "Agustin wrote: "Nivedita wrote: "Rape in itself is the most heinous crime a man can commit..."

About that phrase and other posters who worte that they're scared of men, let me tell you that women ..."


Don't worry, you didn't offend anyone, I was just pointing out that using the term "men" when talking about the perpetrators of rape instead of "people" is a bit... I don't know which word I can use. But still, thank you for understanding.


message 43: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments Amanda wrote: "Gabriela wrote: "Emma Watson twitted #EstuproNaoÉCulpaDaVitima - she wrote in portuguese, in support brazilian women, and that means "Rape is not the victim's fault".

Protests erupted in several B..."


Yes, it's really sad and infurating. I think the place this happens the most is in Middle-east, though.


message 44: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments It never is the fact we have to keep saying it is why we have to keep working to effect change and bring Gender Equity to the world.


message 45: by Megan (new)

Megan Marie | 6 comments All great points made!! I'm joining this thread a bit late but here is my opinion :)

Rape is something that over the years I've had nightmares about. It's a very real and terrifying concern for women. As for the term "rape culture," culture connotes (at least to me) that there is a widespread acceptance. In America I wouldn't say that most people think sexual assault in any form is acceptable. However, sexual assault and rape many a time is tolerated and condoned, which I find disturbing.

Like others have pointed out, education is key. We need to start small, for if males think smaller offensive actions are acceptable then what is stopping them from accepting and committing rape? For example, in my experience a lot of males do not respect a woman's body unless a man is involved. Even my guy friends would constantly slap and comment about my butt until I got a boyfriend. Then it was different apparently. Many times other men will address my boyfriend first before me even though the situation is pertaining to me. This notion I do not understand--Am I not my own person? Also, I think victim blaming is relevant in all types of situations, some less extreme than rape. One time I wore a skirt that had a zipper all the way down it so if you unzipped it, it would fall off. My male friend thought it would be funny to do exactly that and my skirt fell off. I asked him why he did that and he said, "well you're the one who wore a skirt like that." This kind of thinking, even in this small form, can progress to sexual assault.

With all that being said, I think education goes far beyond simply teaching men not to rape--in what tangible ways can we nip the aforementioned thinking before it progresses to sexual assault?


message 46: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Megan, the behaviors of the men you describe is common amongst young men however that does not make it an any way justifiable. The man who unzipped your skirt is guilt of violation on several levels and "friend" is not a term I would use.

I to have heard the argument about culpability and levels of sexist behavior. these are constructs, excuses nothing more. There are no degrees no justification it does not matter what you chose to wear no one has the right to touch you in any manner with out your permission.

Some men say that is unfair and maybe it is so what that is how it has to be and men have to adapt.


message 47: by Karen (new)

Karen Kolus | 13 comments This thread should join with the cat calling thread because rape culture begins with the "innocuous" demoralizing of women. Rape is the ultimate terrible act, but it begins with acceptance of sexual objectification. A group of men shout out unwanted, unsolicited "compliments" to a young woman on the street commenting on her desirability. Within the group this attitude and behavior is accepted and sometimes intensified creating an atmosphere of harassment. The group can lose a sense of the line that must not be crossed, or at least individual members of the group can. Groups like this exist in similar circumstances all over the US: within high school and college sports, college fraternities… It's in identifying the roots of rape culture and changing the acceptance of those behaviors that rape can be seen universally as a heinous act against the helpless.


message 48: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments If we are discussing how to phrase things, there are far worse things than rape.

Aside from that, the content of this thread do make me sad at the state of things.

Personally, I think a combination of jail and counselling would be best, because those who have served lighter sentences, will return to society again. What kind of people are we willing to let out from a world that is very different from the one we are fortunate to experience every day? While it does cost money to provide counselling, it is utter madness not to provide it to all prisoners.


message 49: by Sascha (new)

Sascha | 391 comments I just discovered information about the case of Jolanda Spiess-Hegglin. She is a local politician of the Pirate's Party in Zug/Switzerland and used to work for the Green Party before. Jolanda was raped by a politician of the SVP (Schweizer Volkspartei), though legally she is not allowed to call it rape because a court decided that the rape didn't happen and released the SVP-politician from any guilt. Here Jolanda is telling her story: https://volksverpetzer.de/2016/02/ver...

The reaction of the public and the media in Switzerland was horrible. A typical case of rape culture. But what makes it even worse, there was a shitstorm of hateful people who attacked, insulted and harassed Jolanda. Here's an article on how she is resisting against the haters: https://www.woz.ch/-700a

If you speak German, here you can read her website: https://www.nichtschweigen.ch and she has initiated a campaign called StopRapeCulture on Facebook. And on her website she has written a letter to haters which I think is also an interesting idea on how to cope with Hate Speech: https://www.nichtschweigen.ch/2016/10...


message 50: by Agustin (new)

Agustin | 223 comments Aglaea wrote: "If we are discussing how to phrase things, there are far worse things than rape.

Aside from that, the content of this thread do make me sad at the state of things.

Personally, I think a combinati..."


That must be because rapists are generally psyhcopaths with no sense of right and wrong, so, no matter how much counselling they'll get, they'll commit the same crime with no remorse as soon as they get out.


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