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Archived > ***SPOILERS***The Famous ASOIAF Theory/Rumour ***SPOILERS***

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message 1: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
***SPOILERS***

Do not keep reading unless you are willing to read about what may or may not appear in future book and TV episodes.

***SPOILERS***

The R+L=J Theory

"R+L=J is a fan theory based on George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire fantasy novels and their television adaptation, Game of Thrones. An abbreviation for "Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon", the theory proposes that the character Jon Snow is not the illegitimate son of Eddard "Ned" Stark, but rather the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Ned's sister, Lyanna Stark."
taken from Wikipedia

Do you believe this theory? Why or why not?

Do you have any other theories?

Discuss.


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

I totally do, but I have my doubts. Seems like it is set up that way. Rhaegar had affection for Lyanna corresponding to the rose given to her at the tournament. Robert was obviously blood thirsty to kill any targaryens after "rhaegar kidnapped lyanna". Ned was family orientated and very fond of his sister would have kept the secret and kept a promise of making Jon his illegimate son to protect him from Robert. I guess he could have made Jon a cousin with the starks, but I guess it wouldn't have been so exciting.

Then given there are many subtle hints and hopes of this theory, I feel like GRRM is going to blow it up in our face that Lyanna was actually being tortured in the tower because she wouldn't marry him or something. and Jon is actually the woman Ned slept with child.


message 3: by Brianna (new)

Brianna (bebecburt) | 562 comments I feel like there is a lot of evidence supporting this theory so it very well could be true. I feel like GRRM is sneakier than this though so I want it to not be true (if that makes sense).


message 4: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Well I really wish I had not heard that theory but you pretty much have to live under a rock not to have heard it even if by accident.

At first I was all "No, hell now. Jon burnt his hand saving Commander Mormont and if he is Targareyn how can he burn?" Then I learned that apparently Targaryens aren't officially immune to fire. So then I started to believe it.

I am 80% in favor of the rumour being true but I really don't want to believe it. I would rather have a huge surprise that I did not see coming.


message 5: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
I had also heard that people think Robert Baratheon was Jon's father but I never really believed that. Rob had iligitimate children all over the place so what is one more? Plus on the show Robert outright asks Ned what Jon's mother's name was. (likely in the book too but I forget)


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Leslie (aka Basesloaded32) wrote: "I had also heard that people think Robert Baratheon was Jon's father but I never really believed that. Rob had iligitimate children all over the place so what is one more? Plus on the show Robert o..."

I couldnt remember how to spell it, but I know she was mentioned in the first book. Wylia? something with a W.


message 7: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Yeah something like that.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

I always thought Ned had more honor not to cheat on Cat, too. I thought that him cheating was a fabrication. In the show now we are seeing that he lied about the duel against that golden cloak guy guarding the tower. Could have meant he really has cheated and isn't as honorable as I thought, or that he was lying about Jon.


message 9: by Brianna (new)

Brianna (bebecburt) | 562 comments I definitely question Ned being Jon's dad since he is so honorable, but I am also hopeful that his mom will be surprise. I think that R+L=J is just too easy/convenient...


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Brianna wrote: "I definitely question Ned being Jon's dad since he is so honorable, but I am also hopeful that his mom will be surprise. I think that R+L=J is just too easy/convenient..."

Agree. I wonder if Jon will ever find out, seeing that Bran is the only person to know in the show. Maybe Little Finger know more.


message 11: by Roseanne, RRRM (new)

Roseanne | 674 comments Mod
I didn't for one minute believe Jon was Ned's son. I am 100% positive Lyanna is Jon's mom. I think he made some sort of death bed promise to Lyanna to protect Jon. Rhaeger? Almost positive.


message 12: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (last edited Jun 01, 2016 06:26PM) (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Alex Farrand wrote:

I wonder if Jon will ever find out, seeing that Bran is the only person to know in the show. Maybe Little Finger know more.

.."


If Little Finger knows I would definitely not see that coming. But he is creepy and sneaky so I guess it is possible.


message 13: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Roseanne wrote: "I didn't for one minute believe Jon was Ned's son. I am 100% positive Lyanna is Jon's mom. I think he made some sort of death bed promise to Lyanna to protect Jon. Rhaeger? Almost positive."

I believe it now but would never have come up with that on my own.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Leslie (aka Basesloaded32) wrote: "Alex Farrand wrote:

I wonder if Jon will ever find out, seeing that Bran is the only person to know in the show. Maybe Little Finger know more.

.."

If Little Finger knows I would definitely n..."


The only reason I think maybe Little Finger knows in the show is because of the one episode with him and Sansa looking at Lyanna's tomb when he was offering Sansa to marry Ramsey. There was the pause and stare after Sansa said Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her. Sneaky Little Finger he knows more.


message 15: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Oh Alex I did not pick up on that at all. Hmmmm.


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

There is another theory about Tyrion if anyone is interested.


message 17: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Alex Farrand wrote: "There is another theory about Tyrion if anyone is interested."

sure!


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Tyrion is a Targaryen.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Mad king raped his mother. Cannot tell legitimacy. Tywin had to keep him as his son and raise him as son.


message 21: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Oh I like that rumour!!!!
Not sure if I believe it, but I like it.

I will watch the video later...just off to finish my book. I keep getting distracted by Goodreads lol


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

The other theory, which would be interesting is that Cersei and Jamie are really Targaryen and Tyrion is a Lannister. Kind of makes sense with them being lovers and Targaryens slept with one another.


message 23: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Alex Farrand wrote: "The other theory, which would be interesting is that Cersei and Jamie are really Targaryen and Tyrion is a Lannister. Kind of makes sense with them being lovers and Targaryens slept with one another."

Hmmmm. Interesting.


message 24: by Ria (last edited Jun 05, 2016 12:02AM) (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments I have the same thoughts as you, guys. Completely believe the theory, would've never come up with it on my own, but really don't want it to be true, 'cause I want something completely unexpected.

I like the one about Tyrion being the only true Lannister more and I do think he's the one who takes after Tywin most in terms of intelligence and how rational he is. Cersei is way too emotional and Jaime is too spontaneous. But him being Targrayen would explain his passion for dragons.

Talking about Lannisters, what do you guys think about Cersei's prophecy? Spoiler! Valonqar prophecy Do you think Cersei's right, or do you have your own theories? I personally believe she's wrong, but have no idea who it might be.


message 25: by Ria (last edited Jun 05, 2016 06:51AM) (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments WARNING - Spoilers about chapter 8 of A Strom of Swords!

So, I was reading chapter 8 and reached the part where Arstan tells the story of how Rhaegar became a knight. What do you think he read? There's a theory that it was the prophecy about the Prince that was promised and believed it to be him. But if you remember, one of the things Dany saw in the wizards' palace (don't remember what it was called) was the birth of Rhaegar's son - Aegon. There was a red comet in the sky that day and Rhaegar says "yours is the song of ice and fire", which most likely means he believed it was his son who was the prohpecised prince. Melisendre seems to think it was Stannis, which is something I honestly cannot comprehend. Perhaps it was explained at some point, but I don't remember. And then some readers believe it is Jon. What do you guys think?
End of actual and potential spoilers

You know, having this discussion makes me fully appreciate the complexity of this book and the brilliance of George Martin. Makes me even more excited for the next book.


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

Ria wrote: "I have the same thoughts as you, guys. Completely believe the theory, would've never come up with it on my own, but really don't want it to be true, 'cause I want something completely unexpected.

..."



I was thinking Arya might kill Cersei. She would be the most fun seeing that she went to Bravos and was learning their way of life. She is still on her list. Tyrion hates Cersei, but I don't think he will harm her. He would make it exciting though and I truly would be happy, but Jamie would protect her. Danny could absolutely, but that wouldn't be much fun and be expected becoming a ruler. My bets are on Arya.


message 27: by Roseanne, RRRM (new)

Roseanne | 674 comments Mod
oh that would be so awsome! I cant stand Cersei


message 28: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Well Cersei is in Arya's list.


message 29: by Valeria (new)

Valeria | 2 comments The The R+L=J it was also my theory and is becoming more and more obvious. on the other hand I m hoping it isn't true so that Daenerys and Jon won't be relatives and they could run the world as queen and king (despite Targaryen's unsual joint between siblings).

I've heard this other theory regarding Arya, in which the real Arya stabbed that girl that wanted her dead , both wearing a disguise. crazy right??


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

That would be crazy! And amazing!


message 31: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments Alex Farrand wrote: "The other theory, which would be interesting is that Cersei and Jamie are really Targaryen and Tyrion is a Lannister. Kind of makes sense with them being lovers and Targaryens slept with one another."

Oh this is the first time I hear about this... That would be an amazing twist...


message 32: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments Regarding the theory that Jon is half Targaryen and half Stark I'm not fully convinced. The main reason is FIRE. As Leslie pointed out his hand got burnt. If he can burn then how can he be one of the dragon's 3 heads???

After rewatching the series I saw this scene and I was 100% sure the theory stands. Also I agree with you Alex. Littlefinger is the second person after Martin who knows what's going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfnl9...

Before season 6 aired I was positive that Jon would be brought back (not by Melisandre) after his body was burnt. I watched the trailer a hundred times and I remember seeing Davos standing over a burning corpse. So I thought that Jon would be reborn through fire just like Dany did. And that would also fulfill the prophecy Dany was told in the House of the Unduying. But then Melisandre brought him back and I was a bit disappointed because if he can be burnt then he will not be able to control dragons and that's not cool at all. One thing is for sure. Ned isn't Jon's father. I guess we will find out sooner than we think. I feel this season finale will be bloody and full of twists.

Overall, I don't like the idea that Dany is the only one riding dragons. Why not have a father of dragons? Or a dwarf uncle of dragons? I would love to see Jon, Dany and Tyrion riding their dragons against the Others. This would be the perfect ending for me...


message 33: by Valeria (new)

Valeria | 2 comments @lena "The main reason is FIRE. As Leslie pointed out his hand got burnt. "
He doesn t have to be fireproof to be targaryen. Remember viserys , he got killed by melted gold and he was targaryen. That means he s not just "guru " of dragons like daenerys is. Plus , if that theory stands he is half stark. Starks can get burned :)


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

So I was thinking. I don't know if it is a theory or not but what if Vary's and Littlefinger know the truth about the Jon and Danny (obviously) being the rightful rulers and they are actually working together to make them the rightful heirs. Split and conqueror. All of it was planned by them 2 from the beginning.


message 35: by S (new)

S (siyxx) | 100 comments Interesting because I can't imagine a guy like LF would work with anyone for anything but himself, let alone a greater good. (Varys said he served the realm, so what about LF???).


message 36: by [deleted user] (last edited Sep 10, 2016 09:01PM) (new)

I found one theory that just kinda exploded my mind about Dany's three treasons if anyone is interested. I don't know how people come up with this stuff, but it makes sense. I love it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comme...

Disclaimer it has a spoiler from Dance of Dragons.


Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Alex Farrand wrote: "I found one theory that just kinda exploded my mind about Dany's three treasons if anyone is interested. I don't know how people come up with this stuff, but it makes sense. I love it.

https://ww..."


Interesting!


message 38: by Ria (last edited Sep 12, 2016 12:53AM) (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments Alex Farrand wrote: "I found one theory that just kinda exploded my mind about Dany's three treasons if anyone is interested. I don't know how people come up with this stuff, but it makes sense. I love it.

https://ww..."


(view spoiler)


message 39: by [deleted user] (new)

Very true, but I did like how they intertwined two prophecies. I couldn't remember Dany's treasons when I stumbled upon it.


message 40: by [deleted user] (new)

There is a theory out there that Jon Snow's father is Arthur Dayne. I am not sure who Arthur is. Sounds familiar but I can't recall. Anyone believe that?


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

I was actually thinking about that Terry. Lol


message 43: by Carlos (new)

Carlos (lowlatentinhibition) | 2 comments Rhaegar and Lyanna could be secret lovers torn apart by Aerys' hate for the Starks. Rhaegar married Elia but when Lyanna was promised to Robert, it was too much for him so they eloped. The three Kingsguard probably know they are guarding a Targaryen heir being born on the the Tower of Joy. Next season of the tv series might have more of the back story to be revealed through Bran's dreams. I aim to complete reading the first five books by then. I only finished reading the first one .


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