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WEEK TEN - PRESIDENTIAL SERIES: UNREASONABLE MEN - June 13th - June 19th - Chapter Ten - The Bull Moose - (pages 225 - 258) and Epilogue - No Spoilers, please
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GOP Convention time! Boy, what a mess. It certainly rings truth for 2016 and modern era when they had disputed electors, but Taft had control of the convention committees. TR's response can be ripped from the headlines: "It is a fight against theft, the thieves will not win!" (p. 233)
And so it comes full circle. TR has abandoned his pragmatic caution, he has refused to compromise with Republican leaders, he has embraced progressive ideas that he once dismissed as too radical, he has engaged in a fight that he believed he would lose, and he has committed the ultimate sin of bolting the Republican Party. All the things that he once attacked La Follette for, he has now embraced.He is still TR, but he is not the same, and this evolution--mirrored by the evolution of the country overall--was to me, the most compelling transformation of the era. I'm curious whether readers see it the same way that I have.
Referring to page 232, "Taft represented machine politics,..." I had to go back and check my old history textbooks to be sure, but Taft is usually presented in those texts as a progressive and sometimes even more progressive than TR. Most textbooks focus on his trust-busting, as if that's the only goal of the progressives, though. It's odd to think of him as being part of the party machine.
Another interesting element in this chapter is the dispute between TR and Wilson. We so often think of progressivism as "big government," but Wilson and Brandeis initially repudiated powerful regulatory agencies, which they feared would be corrupted by corporate influence. Author Jeffrey Rosen has an excellent article about Brandeis's perspective on "bigness" at The Atlantic. In this era when people on both sides of the aisle raise concerns about "crony capitalism," this discussion is incredibly relevant, and I'd love to hear what readers think.Rosen has a new biography of Brandeis. I haven't read it, but it's been well-reviewed:
by Jeffrey Rosen (no pic)
Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to issue a mea culpa. In the epilogue, I wrote that TR died on January 5, 1920. This is wrong, of course. He died on January 6, 1919. I've no idea where I came up with the 1920 date, and I'm deeply embarrassed about it (especially since I worked so hard on the chronology on this book). I wish that one could edit a book the way one edit's a comment, but they haven't come up with the technology for that yet. In case, please accept my apologies for this awful error.
Sorry, one more thing. St. Martin's Press asked me to write an article about TR for their history blog, www.thehistoryblog.com. Though not directly related to this chapter, there is a fascinating parallel between our response to the dreadful mass-shooting in Orlando, and the public's response to the assassination of President McKinley by a Polish-American anarchist in 1901. TR was right in the middle of it, of course. Here is the article: Theodore Roosevelt: The Original War on Terror.
It is a great story of transformation. It fits well into the scholarly analysis that Progressives were looking at a strong executive. TR is the man.I like the discussion of the difference between TR and Wilson. Perhaps Wilson is a bit of a bridge, distrust of big government but Progressive mindset. FDR would shatter the distrust.
I must say that much of this chapter felt anti-climatic after the previous one. With Sen. La Follette out of the race and Sen. Aldrich out of the Senate, the outcome of the election seems rather preordained, except for who the Democrats would choose for their election. But I think what was most telling about this chapter and the epilogue is how much had changed in U.S. politics in the eight years Mr. Wolraich chronicled. Prior to Sen. La Follette's arrival in Washington, the conservative Standpatters in the Senate and the House reigned supreme and even TR had to court them to get any meaningful legislation passed. But with persistent leadership from Sen. La Follette and Progressive Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate, the conservative faction is completely overturned, which led to one of the most Progressive and dynamic legislative periods in the country's history prior to the New Deal, the Great Society, and Pres. Obama's first two years. It just goes to show that, even though they may lose the battle, the unreasonable men can win the war. I think that is something that Sen. Bernie Sanders supporters this year can take note of as he makes his exit from the presidential race.Thank you, Mr. Wolraich, for writing this impressive history of the Progressive movement. It was well written and had great parallels to the present race.
Michael wrote: "Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to issue a mea culpa. In the epilogue, I wrote that TR died on January 5, 1920. This is wrong, of course. He died on January 6, 1919. I've no idea where I..."No mea culpas necessary. You have done such an outstanding job with this book and your intensive research, that I wonder how many people even realized that the date was incorrect, although I know it bothered you..
You have presented TR in a pretty positive light regarding his bolting from the party. I must admit that I am not a particular fan of his and always felt that he had an overwhelming and overweening desire to remain "in the spotlight and in charge" and that he actually felt that he was popular enough to pull off a third party run. Although his actions were mirroring those of LaFollette, did he think that he was justified in this transformation while LaFollette was not because he was not a popular figure? I feel that TR's ego was driving him and he was looking to ensure his place in history. I'm sure I am in the minority with this opinion!!!!
Bryan wrote: "GOP Convention time! Boy, what a mess. It certainly rings truth for 2016 and modern era when they had disputed electors, but Taft had control of the convention committees. TR's response can be ri..."
I'm a little surprised no one from the GOP is planning to run a "Bull Moose" campaign against Trump. Sure it would guarantee their defeat in this cycle, but at least they could maintain the integrity of their party. Plus historically, it's not like the 1912 split was the death knell of the Republican Party, as they recaptured the White House with Warren G. Harding eight years later.
What a fantastic wrap-up to a great book! I loved how everything came together in the end. The assassination attempt was very well-written and I was riveted! I can't believe how TR handled that simply amazing. Thank you for sharing this story with us Michael!
Jason wrote: "What a fantastic wrap-up to a great book! I loved how everything came together in the end. The assassination attempt was very well-written and I was riveted! I can't believe how TR handled that sim..."I agree, this entire part was amazing! Finishing a speech after being shot! Who would do this? You could never see something like this happen today.
What a finish! I found it interesting that TR at the Republican convention felt the party had committed fraud, which the current election has had complaints/rumblings of from both parties. I was saddened to see LF lose a bit of his high ground with personal attacks on TR. He held out for so long of his career, it was disappointing to see that happen in the end. TR is of course ever the showman. I mean, he really should have gone to a hospital! Schrank creeped me out though, a deranged hunter tracking TR at multiple campaign stops. I found it interesting as well that Uncle Joe returned to Capitol Hill and his insight into the everlastingness of the Republican party versus the short lifetime Progressives.
I remember all the key terms and dates from school but I don't think I realized the wide impact of the domestic legislative tide Wilson led, at least until WWI took over the nation's attention. Wrapping up with the deaths of all these characters made the ending of the book feel very solid. I'm glad that Taft and TR reconciled and that Aldrich got to see his legacy projects fulfilled. So happy to have read this book. Thanks Michael for writing it and HBC for organizing this group!
Michael wrote: "Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to issue a mea culpa. In the epilogue, I wrote that TR died on January 5, 1920. This is wrong, of course. He died on January 6, 1919. I've no idea where I..."No apologies needed. I never have read a book that was devoid of errors. I loved the book.
In one of your comments you asked us, the readers, to comment about TR's transformation. To me it did not seem that radical of a transformation because to me, TR recognized that his methods were not accomplishing much and he was one of those rare individuals who could perceive and correct his shortcomings.. Most of us don't have that capacity. From what I read in your book. Woodrow Wilson also seemed to undergo a metamorphosis. Taft was not capable of change.
In this chapter, I again learned so much about TR's life and times. I did not know that he was shot nor did I know that he then refused to go to the hospital, but went instead to the Convention Center and gave a lengthy speech. I read Andrew Jackson's life. I am not very fond of Jackson, for several reasons, but he was similar to TR in that he would do such extraordinary things as ride into battle even though he was near death.I also did not realize until reading this book, how much Wilson accomplished. I guess his entering the USA into WWI has overshadowed his many accomplishments.
Jill wrote: "Although his actions were mirroring those of LaFollette, did he think that he was justified in this transformation while LaFollette was not because he was not a popular figure?"It's a great question, Jill. I don't think TR was really conscious of his transformation. Unlike Wilson, he never commented about any change in his point of view. Taft had a wonderful quote about him that didn't make it into the book. He was speaking with Archie Butt in 1910 about whether TR intended to run for president in 1912.
"The fact of the matter is," Taft told Butt, "if you were to remove Roosevelt's skull now, you would find written on his brain '1912.' But he is so purely an opportunist that should he find conditions changed materially in another year and you were to open his brain, you would not find there 1912, and Roosevelt would deny it was ever there."
I think it's the same with TR's political evolution. When he gave that speech in Milwaukee with a bullet in his rib, he defended himself from accusations that he had rebuffed La Follette back in 1904. I don't think he was putting on act. I think he really believed that his ideas had been as progressive in 1904 as they were in 1912.
Mod
I found this final chapter and the epilogue a well organized ending to this interesting book.The pivot was made to the progressive action that Wilson was able to achieve with the foundation built by TR, LF and others.
So I make some notes of things that were of interest to me
pg 231 para 6 - from Wilson’s 1902 book “men of the lowest class from the south of Italy and men of the meaner sort out of Hungary and Poland” - so I can see the prejudices I only heard about occasionally - my grand parents arrrived respectively from Sicily and Austria Hungary in the mid 1900 - 10 - but they were so grateful for the opportunity to be here that that discrimination was a post script sort of. Once they got rid of their accents they could change their names and avoid the multi century prejudice that people of color cannot so easily avoid.
pg 235 para 5 - “…it wasn’t just TR who had changed tis was a new America” - but since the beginning of the last century - and maybe even a bit before did not the communications advancements/revolutions not make this inevitable - is it not still so today? - “people demanded a leader who could change the world”- it seems today we have those who want to restore a lost world and those who want to perpetuate the current one running for our presidency and the true progressive trying to keep his ideas in play - just comparisons to our current world
Pg 235 para 2 LF “would hold his course to the bitter end” - no… Sanders…..no LaFollette
Pg 241 para 9 - well Jane Addams of settlement house fame was for the progressive TR - interesting commentary from a 21st century perspective -
pg 249 para 2 - TR in Atlanta “all but called Wilson a liar” - this year he could be “wicked Woodrow” or “wily Wilson” or … well let’s ask Donald for one.
All in all a really good book - the various factors seem to close well into a well finished story with this ending. - Thanks Michael.
Michael wrote: "Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to issue a mea culpa. In the epilogue, I wrote that TR died on January 5, 1920. This is wrong, of course. He died on January 6, 1919. I've no idea where I..."I'd like to say don't worry about the mistake but as an author I know what it's like. Even if no one else notices it, it seems to jump out at you every time you open that page. I think it happens to keep us humble. At least our mistakes are not so offensive that we have to put erratum slips into each book like Wilson did.
This book is very well written, and I agree that the assassination description is probably one of the best portions. On your website, I read you write "about historical events to illuminate modern politics." I can see some of it in this book, although I think I mostly noticed the differences between Roosevelt's times and today. Something that never changes is a yearning for a leader who can change the world, or at least our country. On the other hand, I think many are losing hope not only in the possibility of finding such a leader, but also in the future of democracy, given the puzzling choices a large number of Americans are making today.
Wonderful chapter, and a fascinating ending to this book. TR kept me riveted to the end. He just didn't know when to stop, even wanting to go fight in WWI. Two other things stood out for me: the animosity among the major players in the election - everybody despised everybody. It just goes to show that we shouldn't lament the current situation in Washington - it seems to be the norm most of the time.
And finally, the inevitable pendulum of politics. Wilson stepped into a fortunate situation that others before him laid the groundwork. When he became president, all the key influencers - and the country as a whole - were in a progressive frame of mind, and he could get so much accomplished. And yet, that movement came to an end just a few years later.
Mary wrote: "Wonderful chapter, and a fascinating ending to this book. TR kept me riveted to the end. He just didn't know when to stop, even wanting to go fight in WWI. Two other things stood out for me: the ..."
TR was 59 when he wanted to go fight in WWI - His son Theodore Jr. was fighting in WW II at the age of 57 when he died. Not so unrealistic of TR to want to go to war.
Probably a bit of the heritage of his father - TR's father - having "bought" a substitute for his service in the Civil War.
I agree, Vincent. TR was a man of action. It just sounded like he didn't know what he would have been in for, as warfare had changed since the days of the Rough Riders. Theodore Jr. is another interesting person and so prolific in his public and military service.
Nick wrote: "Bryan wrote: "GOP Convention time! Boy, what a mess. It certainly rings truth for 2016 and modern era when they had disputed electors, but Taft had control of the convention committees. TR's resp..."
Nick, I am not sure that someone or group will start a "Bull Moose" movement at the convention. He has lost a lot of support in the last few weeks with the standard bearers of the Republican Party. If he does try to get the NRA to change their strong gun position he could create more and powerful enemies.
I think both conventions will be extremely interesting this year. It is the first time in awhile that I have been so interested in the conventions. In the past few years things have been settled by know and the convention is just for show.
I found this chapter to be very interesting. You have three important and powerful men all failing at the same time. All three showed their weaknesses and their failure to work with others to solve problems.Taft had given up on being president. I think it started when his with had her stroke and continued with Roosevelt's return from Africa. He didn't want to be President and was glad when his term ended. I think he made a major error in taking on tariffs as soon as he took office and then trusting congressmen to keep their word on the tariff bills.
I think LaFollett's all or none obsession got in the way of inaction some of the progressive ideas of the time. I think his final speech illustrated how stubborn he was.
Teddy's ego resulted in his defeat. He and Taft had been good friends and supported his programs and ideas. I truly think if Roosevelt had not gone to Africa it would have changed history and perhaps their friendship.
Although it wasn't mentioned in this book I have to wonder if the Brownsville Affair might have started the split in their friendship.
Mary wrote: "I agree, Vincent. TR was a man of action. It just sounded like he didn't know what he would have been in for, as warfare had changed since the days of the Rough Riders. Theodore Jr. is another in..."
TR Jr. had not gotten the recognition he deserves. He led his troops at Utah Beach on D-Day while using a cane to walk! He died 30 days later and was awarded the MOH posthumously.
I enjoyed the last chapter, but it made me sad. Four men with such potential - what if they had worked together! I know people from different parties can't usually overcome their party loyalties, but sometimes working together is better for the country (which is what they are supposed to be working for anyway! Was it Madison who was so strongly against "factions"?). One thing I have learned from this book was that powerful people rarely consider "the people" when they are in governing positions.I saw a side of Wilson that I wasn't aware of. He always seems like a stuck-up, grumpy old professor to me. Here at the end of the book he shows a warmer side. He might have been one of those professors that students enjoy getting to know.
Appreciate the epilogue - I always like to know what happened to the people in the book. I guess 50% happy endings? Taft goes to the Supreme Court, which was the perfect place for him. Wilson has a great honeymoon period as president and achieves many progressive goals. But La Follette dies a miserable man, feeling cheated. And Teddy, dear Teddy - still one of my favorites! I think Wilson should have let him lead a regiment in WWI...can't you just see him leading a charge out of the trenches?
Michael wrote: "He is still TR, but he is not the same, and this evolution--mirrored by the evolution of the country overall--wasto me, the most compelling transformation of the era."
I agree. TR was always a fighter, but he was also a pragmatic politician; and now he was willing to take more substantial strides towards national renovations.
Still, what I loved most was that "a madman's bullet had finally
compelled these resentful men...to reveal the better angels of their natures" (p. 251). It was a frightening event, and I'm amazed at TR's tenacity. It adds to his lion-hearted prestige (as the bullet in Andrew Jackson's body did). Yes, politics is a dirty business, but it should not entail bloodshed! So, the compelling transformation was both in the ascendancy of progressives _and_ in the triumph of humanity.
Tomi wrote: "I enjoyed the last chapter, but it made me sad. Four men with such potential - what if they had worked together! I know people from different parties can't usually overcome their party loyalties, b..."Just a comment upon thought - if TR had fought in WWI just think the propaganda opportunity if TR had been killed or captured.
I think that Wilson was right to keep TR out of "action" but maybe not totally out of the war effort.
Michael wrote: "Another interesting element in this chapter is the dispute between TR and Wilson. We so often think of progressivism as "big government," but Wilson and Brandeis initially repudiated powerful regul..."I read the NYTimes review of the new book about Brandeis. Sounds fascinating. I put it on my TBR list!
My favorite part of this chapter is when TR goes to Chicago to campaign for his own nomination. On page 233, Michael's depiction of TR waving his new hat, a "big buckskin sombrero with a five inch brim" and of the brass band trying to lead him into the lobby but getting scattered by the crowd, is one of the best painted scenes in the book.
Jill wrote: "Michael wrote: "Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to issue a mea culpa. In the epilogue, I wrote that TR died on January 5, 1920. This is wrong, of course. He died on January 6, 1919. I've..."I would agree with you Jill. I had not realized how big his ego was until reading this chapter. I've always thought of him as a "character" with a big personality, but see him in a bit of a different light now.
Thank you Michael for engaging with us during this discussion.
Enjoyed this chapter but as we all know how the election in 1912 is going to end, it could not help but be a little anti-climatic. But the outcome reminded me of the advice Chris Matthews proffers in Hardball -- "Dance With The One That Brung Ya" -- if you jump ship and leave your life-long party for short-term political gain, you are pretty much doomed. I doubt TR would have listened, but apropos advice for the Bull Moose. I thought the Epilogue was just the right length and amount of post-script to satisfactorily end a very informative and very readable book. As a progressive-minded Rhode Islander, I had to chuckle at all the unintended outcomes of Nelson Aldrich's conservative standpatter legacy-- the federal reserve, the eventual death of the tariff at the hand's of "his" income tax" amendment -- everything he was against all that ended up getting passed with his name attached is what he is best remembered for today. Except in RI, where it was his stranglehold on the state political machine along with 'Blind' Boss Brayton is what folks locally remember him for, if they remember Aldrich at all. His mansion on the East Side of Providence is now the headquarters of the Rhode Island Historical Society -- when I go to talks there from now on for programs and lectures I will have a deeper understanding of the man who once lived there and his times.
I'd like to thank Michael for his contributions to the discussion. I have enjoyed seeing other people's views on the early progressives. And of course thanks to Bentley for all his hard work!
Tomi wrote: "I'd like to thank Michael for his contributions to the discussion. I have enjoyed seeing other people's views on the early progressives. And of course thanks to Bentley for all his hard work!"Me too!!!!
Just finished the book, and I wish I could go to the Fighting Bob Fest in September, except it's on Shabbos (Saturday).I must say that as a person, I'm most sympathetic with Taft, yet I'd probably agree with his policies least. My previous high opinion of TR is now tarnished, and La Follette had his rough edges, too. So perhaps the lesson is that if you want to succeed in politics, you've got to be an egotist or a stubborn pain in the neck. A polite, measured guy like Taft wasn't made for it.
Thanks, Bentley and Michael!
I finished this book and really enjoyed it a lot. Thank you Michael for a very enjoyable thought inspiring book and your contributions to the discussion. And thank you Bentley.This was a dynamic period of time and it was responsible for the Progressive movement. We can thank La Follette In spite of his downfall for starting this movement with his insurgents. TR was a dynamic person until the end though I feel his image has lessened in my eyes. I think he should have worked together more with the progressives. It was amazing how TR made his speech after he was shot and that it was his 50 page speech and spectacles in his pocket that saved his life.
I have sympathy for Taft as he fell into the position of President and never really had his heart in it. He was too easily swayed by the Standpatters to make his own way and create his own legacy. I learned more about Wilson and found out he was more than just a professor and it was interesting reading how he won the election of 1912 even though while doing so we knew the outcome. He was president during the greatest political revolution since the civil war.
Kressel ~ I agree...I had a much higher opinion of TR but not so much now. As far as Taft, I didn't think he really wanted to be President. Nice guy, yes...but like Helga said, he didn't have his heart in it.
Teri wrote: "Kressel ~ I agree...I had a much higher opinion of TR but not so much now. As far as Taft, I didn't think he really wanted to be President. Nice guy, yes...but like Helga said, he didn't have his h..."Goes to show the wisdom of following you hearts, though sometimes it's hard to do. Taft really wanted the Supreme Court, and La Follette wanted to be by his daughter's side on the night it all blew up for him.
What a great book - and what a wild ride!I agree with Jill's comments on TR. I think his desire to be in the center - the "bride at every wedding" - was the real moving force of his "conversion" to the Progressive side. Yet he is a hard character to dislike. Even a century removed, something of his charisma comes across. He seemed to have a magnificent talent for self-delusion, particularly in the brain/hips dichotomy. It seems that his brain was arranged in such a way that he actually believed in the purity of his motives and consistency of his positions! Amazing.
LaFollete's meltdown was painful and he, too, lost something of the purity of his position. This final chapter - in fact the book as a whole - is a powerful meditation on the ruinous effects of unrestrained ego!
A side line: the book also gives two rather touching portraits of two marriages as true partnerships: the LaFollettes and the Tafts. The description of LaFollette's death, his wife at his side reassuring him of his accomplishments and the good he had done, was really touching.
I join the chorus of praise and gratitude to our author and to our indefatigable moderator! Michael, I look forward to reading both your previous and your next works!
I really enjoyed this book, and the final chapter and epilogue were both excellent! It's interesting (especially this year) to see the downside of sticking with an election to the extent of splintering off your party. I think both parties were at some risk of splintering this year - and there's still a lot of time to go before November. I was very impressed by TR's resolve to speak for 90 minutes after being shot! I don't think there's anyone with that kind of attitude in politics today. And I appreciated very much hearing "what happens next" in the epilogue.Thanks Michael! I really enjoyed this book. It brought a time in history that I was not at all familiar with to life for me. The characters were vivid and interesting and the story - although some readers knew almost the whole thing - was told in a fresh way that really held the attention of the entire group.
Thanks to our Moderators! This was kind of a busy time of year to undertake a coordinated read, and you did a great job. I really enjoyed the historical context you provided for each chapter and the compelling discussion questions.
Let's do it all again soon!
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Hardball (other topics)Louis D. Brandeis: American Prophet (other topics)
Unreasonable Men: Theodore Roosevelt and the Republican Rebels Who Created Progressive Politics (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jeffrey Rosen (other topics)Michael Wolraich (other topics)
For the week of June 13th through June 19th, we are reading Chapter Ten of Unreasonable Men: Theodore Roosevelt and the Republican Rebels who Created Progressive Politics by Michael Wolraich.
The tenth week's reading assignment is:
Week Ten - June 13th - June 19th
Chapter Ten - The Bull Moose - (pages 225 - 228)
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book was kicked off on April 11th. It is never too late to start a book here at the History Book Club.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. This weekly thread will be opened up today (sorry but away on travel).
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Bentley will be moderating this discussion and Assisting Moderators Teri, Jill, Bryan, and Samanta will be backups.
The author Michael Wolraich will also be actively participating in the moderation with Bentley. We welcome him to the discussion.
Welcome,
~Bentley
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Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD
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