Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (Harry Potter, #7) Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion


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I wish Neville was more involved

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Caroline Liberatore You know how Neville could have been "The Chosen One"? I wish Jo added him in more and did SOMETHING HUGE AND CRAZY HAPPEN.
What's your opinion? Do you like how she did it? Or did you wish Neville was more involved?


Anna I'd say slicing off Nagini's head while being tortured is something huge and crazy.

I thought that having Neville make such a big comeback in this book was a good decision. We readers already knew Neville, thanks to books 1-6, and we knew what kind of person he was. Or at least, we THOUGHT we knew.

When he was reintroduced on Harry, Ron and Hermione's return to Hogwarts, we saw how Neville had changed from the slightly awkward and nervous boy we thought we knew. Having him commit such an act of heroism and possible self-sacrifice further cemented the fact that Neville had changed, at least outwardly. Remember when he was going to fight Harry, Ron and Hermione when they snuck out of the common room in the first book? There was the hint, maybe foreshadowing, as to what Neville was going to become.

Great character development and a wonderful climax.


Line It think we should also remember, that Neville's grandmother often compared Neville to his father, and how he (in her eyes) never could be as good a wizard as the dad.
The fact that the dads wand, which Neville have in books #1-5, until the fight at the ministry, never truly obaid him, only served as a proof of his grandmothers words for him.
When Neville got a wand that actually chose him, we see great improvements in his wizardry. He now also have a tangible reason to be a great wizard: To revenge his parents, now that Voldy has returned.

We must also remember, that when we first Neville in book #1, he's only 11 years old. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know many who were as brave at 11, as they were at 17, 25 or older.
We all come into our personalities, change them to want we want them to be, and learn throughout our lives.

To get back to my original point: Neville never had reason to believe in himself, before he got his own (not his fathers) wand, and before he had a tangible reason to do so.

I personally love the character of Neville. The underdog that comes out on top.
Can't remember how it goes in the book, but the speech he gives before the whole school and the deatheaters in the courtyard, after they believe Harry dead, is one of my favorite moments of the whole series. When all others have lost hope, it is Neville, who reminds them why they fight, and why the must continue to fight...

Just my two cents worth...


Anna That was wonderful, Line. :) Yay for Neville! :D


Mikaela Also when Harry, Ron and Hermione came back to Hogwarts for the battle it was described how Neville was undermining the deatheaters and reforming DA and was getting beaten for it but still did it and didn't spill the beans.


Line Eliza wrote: "That was wonderful, Line. :) Yay for Neville! :D"

Thanks


Line Mikaela wrote: "Also when Harry, Ron and Hermione came back to Hogwarts for the battle it was described how Neville was undermining the deatheaters and reforming DA and was getting beaten for it but still did it a..."

Oh yeah, didn't get that part in, in my comment...
You are totally right, Mikaela...


message 8: by Nonethousand (last edited May 07, 2014 09:20AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Nonethousand Oberrhein Mikaela wrote: "Also when Harry, Ron and Hermione came back to Hogwarts for the battle it was described how Neville was undermining the deatheaters and reforming DA and was getting beaten for it but still did it a..."
It's a pity that we have to learn about this huge character development in a small fraction of the pages that described the utterly BORING "camping adventures" of Harry/Frodo, Ron/Smeagol and Hermione/Sam...
(hope you all get the LotR references ;-P)


Kaya I wish all other important characters besides Harry, Roon and Hermione were more involved.


Daisy Well, I am reading a fanfiction at the moment called Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness, which is told from Neville's POV (in 3rd person) and it's all about what happened at Hogwarts while Harry, Ron and Hermione were off looking for the horcruxes. It's not entirely accurate to what I imagine happened, but it's pretty good. You might enjoy it if your looking for more Neville involvement and there is stuff about the prophecy in it. Hope this is helpful :)


Sorrel Well, in the first books Neville never really was like a main, main character. He was there, and everyone knew about him and found him quite a funny endearing character and so I think that his role in the Deathly Hallows was quite a big one, compared with him in the past. I think perhaps it would've seemed a bit off and not quite fitting with the rest of the books if Neville became a really big part of the Deathly Hallows. I just don't see how he could've been fitted in.
I do love Neville though, and the part he did play and the scenes he's in, are my favourite parts of the book :-D


Mikaela Nonethousand wrote: "Mikaela wrote: "Also when Harry, Ron and Hermione came back to Hogwarts for the battle it was described how Neville was undermining the deatheaters and reforming DA and was getting beaten for it bu..."

haha yeah that is true


message 13: by Bess (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bess Oates I don't really believe that Neville could've been the chosen one, he was chosen to lead an army! He did become quite a main character but I think for him to be more involved from the beginning would've undermined his achievements and character development in OOTP - DH,the fact that he was so shy and anxious made it seem so much better when he was brave because his character had developed so much


Daisy Well said, Bess. You make a good point saying that him being in the first ones more would have slightly undermined his later character development. :)


James Penn Daisy: good point on the Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness fanfiction. That was an amazing fanfiction! I read it a couple years back, actually... And it goes to the point that, yes, it takes some imagination to give Neville his full credit, but overall, he is given his due in the books. It might be fun to see Rowling write a snippet or two about what happened to Neville in that year, but I am also pretty content to just let fanfictioners and imagination take the job instead.


Daisy James wrote: "Daisy: good point on the Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness fanfiction. That was an amazing fanfiction! I read it a couple years back, actually... And it goes to the point that, yes, it..."

Thanks! I've almost finished it now, and it's so brilliant! Love it! :D


Caroline Liberatore Yeah I liked how he was definitely more a hero and the character development.

What I MEANT was I wish she BLEW your mind with something crazy, like a TOTAL plot twist... you know?


James Penn I see what you're saying and everything... I guess that honor was reserved for other characters who turned out to be something other than we expected in the 7th book. But, I definitely understand what you're saying and everything. :)


Robin I don't think he could have been a chosen one. I did love how he basically was the hero at the end too. I don't know why but I really enjoyed Neville's character. And I did wish he had more of a role, had more of a happy ending. Maybe even his parents were some how better.


message 20: by Anna (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anna Blew my mind.

But I see what you mean. Something completely unexpected, something to make you say, "Whoa! I did NOT see that coming!" would have been cool.


message 21: by David W. (new)

David W. The book's narrative (which I personally deem narrow and sadly restrictive) did Neville (and Ginny and Luna) a great disservice because even if the book had Harry's POV as the majority but saved one or two chapters for the DA's POV (we wouldn't even be spoiled of Snape's true allegiance because he keeps up his DE front in front of the students), things would've been fresher and more exciting. The camping trip was too long, and if the POV was switched a bit to Hogwarts, and then switched back to Harry and Hermione and they sadly still had little progress, we'd still know their desperation without actually reading lengthly descriptions of that and nothing else.


Nonethousand Oberrhein David wrote: "The book's narrative (which I personally deem narrow and sadly restrictive) did Neville (and Ginny and Luna) a great disservice..."
I second this.


message 23: by David W. (last edited Jun 29, 2014 11:00AM) (new)

David W. Thanks. Consider what the two DH films did: a DE stopped the train, Cormac McLaggen threatened him with ”My father would hear about this!" (still very brave of him because his dad isn't AK-proof, no matter how high a position), and Neville basically said "F*&k off, of course Harry Potter's not stupid enough to go to Hogwarts now!" And Part Two opened with a scene of Hogwarts under Snape, and even a noob might tell that there's more to Snape that meets the eye...


message 24: by Line (new) - rated it 5 stars

Line I agree with you, David, too a degree...
It would have been nice, to hear from other POV's than Harry's, but seeing as book 1-6 was strictly from his POV, I think it would have been weird to suddenly change the POV...


Rosella David wrote: "The book's narrative (which I personally deem narrow and sadly restrictive) did Neville (and Ginny and Luna) a great disservice because even if the book had Harry's POV as the majority but saved on..."
It would have been nice if perhaps the three main characters picked up more information about the crew at Hogwarts one way or another. Ron could have brought back some news after the time he spent at home.


message 26: by David W. (new)

David W. Not entirely true, @Line, the very first chapter of PS/SS was from the Dursleys' PoV where the strange men in robes hug Vernon and whatnot, very thoughtful of Jo Rowling to do so and coax us into a world with a hidden world; GoF opened with a narrative of what would be proven as Tom Riddle's early kills in his illustrious carreer, leading to Frank being AK'd by Voldemort; and HBP had The Other Minister and Spinner's End whose events Harry had no idea of whatsoever, even after the truth of Snape's allegiance was known, he did not witness the Unbreakable Vow, unlike the murder of Frank whatshisname which he'd experienced by his Scar.


Nonethousand Oberrhein I think the best way to shift POV inside the HP novels narrative "rules" would have been to use the Marauder's Map (Harry watches it from time to time, but with no narrative effect whatsoever ;-/)... Harry follows a set of footprints, and BAM! change of POV: we are inside the footprints' owner's head! ;->
Alas, JKR preferred to keep us trudging through pages and pages of boredom with a teenagers trio cosplaying "Frodo, Sam and Smeagol in the land of Mordor"... :-((


message 28: by David W. (last edited Jun 30, 2014 04:04AM) (new)

David W. Anything along the lines of "Harry feared for the students who now live in a school headed by the man who murdered Dumbledore" would make for a good transaction into a new PoV...

@Nonethousand you're idea would've worked even better for the films!

(Frodo and Sam had a much clearer goal: Mordor is the place in the horizons where there is no sun shining through the thick dark clouds, and a live volcano; their peril is mainly about getting through alive, and not be snatched up by a Nazgûl or betrayed by Gollum.)


Daisy Nonethousand wrote: "I think the best way to shift POV inside the HP novels narrative "rules" would have been to use the Marauder's Map (Harry watches it from time to time, but with no narrative effect whatsoever ;-/)..."

Cool idea! :D


Allison Did he not kill enough snakes/horcruxes for you like really? Did he not get the points for the Gryffindors to win the house cup in the first book?


Nonethousand Oberrhein Allison wrote: "Did he not kill enough snakes/horcruxes for you like really? Did he not get the points for the Gryffindors to win the house cup in the first book?"
I REALLY think that Neville deserved more than being the comic relief character, that gets a pinch of heroics done just to appease his fan base.


message 32: by David W. (new)

David W. Again, I don't mind that he'd reached his full hero-maturity in DH i.e. the last book, but I do mind that this growth and his struggles in the school was all rendered in the background, not even mentioned in passing. Hence my yearning for a change in PoV.


Mahgul Fawad I personally love the character of Neville. The underdog that comes out on top.
Can't remember how it goes in the book, but the speech he gives before the whole school and the deatheaters in the courtyard, after they believe Harry dead, is one of my favorite moments of the whole series. When all others have lost hope, it is Neville, who reminds them why they fight, and why the must continue to fight...


message 34: by David W. (new)

David W. The speech he gave in the film was expanded, in the book he said "I'll join you when hell freezes over." and then yelled "Dumbledore's Army!"


message 35: by David W. (new)

David W. The speech he gave in the film was expanded, in the book he said "I'll join you when hell freezes over." and then yelled "Dumbledore's Army!"


Eliza I agree with Eliza (2nd comment): He became a full-on badass in book 7. He pulled the DA together and led them, he took beatings and torture from his teachers, he tried to steal the sword, he didn't stop just because Harry was dead, and he killed the snake.

I also think it's interesting that for years he was thought of as a lesser wizard, but he wasn't using a wand that chose him that whole time. He was using his dad's old wand. If book 7 makes anything clear, it's that the wand needs to choose you. It's also interesting that even though Neville did poorly in all his potions classes with Snape, he did fine on his final exam when Snape wasn't there. There's also the hint, "I'll fight you," in book 1.

Neville was always awesome, he just didn't always know it. In book 7, he really came into his own. I love this character so much.


message 37: by David W. (new)

David W. Interestingly, Draco also had his wand bought by not-himself, in his case his mother. There's a theory out there (which I agree with) that the Phoenix wand chose Harry because the two of them fit but more importantly Harry's destiny to defeat Voldemort (and the sliver of soul in the scar) helped lean the decision towards the wand with a twin core. It is therefore strongly implied by Canon events that perhaps "Draco's" unicorn hair wand might have chosen Harry (perhaps even trumping the choice of the Holly/Phoenix one), if Voldemort had never been an issue.

The real weird thing is, the Malfoys and Longbottoms are both pureblooded families, yet they don't know that a witch/wizard ought to make their own wand purchases and let them chose their own masters.


message 38: by David W. (new)

David W. ...which is why the events in the film DH Part II still makes sense—Harry destroys the Elder Wand before trying to use it to fix his old wand, presumedly keeping Draco's for the rest of his life. All for the best, because Draco wasn't properly chosen by it anyway.


Eliza Just because his mom purchased the wand, does that mean it never chose Draco? I assumed that every kid who goes to Olivander's goes through the same process of getting measured and testing out a few wands until they find the right one. In book 7 when the ministry is interrogating muggle-born people, Umbridge asks the witch on trial where she got her wand and she says, "It chose me when I was 11." I think most kids' parents would actually be footing the bill for the wand. Not many 11-year-olds have their own bank accounts.


message 40: by David W. (last edited Aug 05, 2014 03:13AM) (new)

David W. You raise good points, let be check my books...

*5 minutes later*

PS/SS Chapter VII:
“My father’s next door buying my books and mother’s up the street looking at wands,” said the boy. He had a bored, drawling voice. “Then I’m going to drag them off to look at racing brooms. I don’t see why first years can’t have their own. I think I’ll bully father into getting me one and I’ll smuggle it in somehow.”

~*~

It's not final, but still strongly suggesting that Narcissa picked out Draco's wand for him. Think of the measuring and try-out wavings, it all required the kid to be present in Ollivander's shop. Nothing in Canon (afaik) states that an adult could do or even tell anything useful in the choosing of a wand. The wand seeks out potential matches. The parent can't help in that.

The persecuted witch you mentioned in your comment (I think her name was Mary) is Muggleborn, hence her parents wouldn't even be in Diagon Alley to interfere, or if they did visit the place they still have nothing to contribute; Tom Riddle was for all everyone knew a Muggleborn when he visited Diagon Alley the first time, plus he insisted to go alone without Dumbledore accompanying, therefore he must've been present at his wand's purchasing. He was very satisfied with his yew and phoenix feather wand for most of his life.

Nevill got his father's old wand, which was a plain stupid thing to do, and I'll bet that was also part of his problem at school. Potions did not require wandwork, so we can chalk that up to his own insecurities and Snape's attitude, but he was equally nervousin Charms and Transfiguration as well. He started to regain his confidence in Book 5 after Bellatrix escaped Azkaban and he practised in the DA, and in Book 6 he finally purchased a wand from Ollivander which mit have been ere waiting for him all those years. That he was stuck with his dad's wand might suggest that his entire family doesn't know that a Chosen wand works best, or someone would've protested.


Skylar Clark I think Neville was created to be a secondary character. Plain and simple if he ever did anything more then that in my opinion, take away from the primary characters. Let me explain,the prophecy that was created at the height of the First Wizarding War could have been two people Harry or Neville,Jo put Neville in as a side character. Again when he got to school he was a friend of Harry's,again he is a side character. To make my point he was a side character all through out the books. Now let me ask you this: Why would the author turn a side character,who has remained that way all through the series,make him the centre of attention all of a sudden? It doesn't make sense. There is no set-up, it would be weird and under anticipated in my opinion.


message 42: by Anna (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anna Eliza wrote: "I agree with Eliza (2nd comment): He became a full-on badass in book 7. He pulled the DA together and led them, he took beatings and torture from his teachers, he tried to steal the sword, he didn'..."

Thank you, Eliza! :)


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