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Fyodor Dostoyevsky Collection > Crime and Punishment Section 6 - Spoilers

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message 1: by Cindy (last edited May 04, 2014 07:54AM) (new)

Cindy Brown (beautygoodbook) Thank You Lisa for being our discussion leader for this book.


message 2: by MK (last edited Jun 02, 2014 12:24PM) (new)

MK (wisny) | 2993 comments Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Crime and Punishment was chosen from monthly nominations as our June 2014 Old School Classic Group Read. I hope you will join the conversation! Please take care to limit SPOILERS to appropriate threads, so so as to not to give away any plot points prematurely! :)

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message 3: by [deleted user] (last edited May 11, 2014 01:29PM) (new)

Section 6: Chapters 32-39 plus Epilogue and Spoilers definitely allowed! :-)

Ask and you shall be forgiven --

Part 6 Quotable:

[Raskolnikov:] “They say it is necessary for me to suffer! What’s the object of these senseless sufferings? Shall I know any better what they are for, when I am crushed by hardships and idiocy, and weak as an old man after twenty years’ penal servitude?”

Questions to ponder:

1. Are Raskolnikov’s and Svidrigailov’s criminal actions equally monstrous? If Raskolnikov had only murdered Alyona and not Lizaveta, would this change your opinion of his character?

2. Do you think Raskolnikov’s “epiphany” allows him to eventually turn his life around? Does Raskolnikov really believe in penance, is he just going through the motions because he is selfish or does he even deserve to be forgiven (especially by Sonia)?

3. Is Raskolnikov capable of committing murder again?


message 4: by Kelly B (new)

Kelly B (kellybey) | 266 comments 1. Are Raskolnikov’s and Svidrigailov’s criminal actions equally monstrous? If Raskolnikov had only murdered Alyona and not Lizaveta, would this change your opinion of his character?

I do think their actions equally monstrous. They were both very disturbed and untrustworthy individuals.

R not killing Lizaveta would not change my opinion of him. Murder is murder, whether the murderer feels it's justified or not (obviously killing for self-defence is in a different league).


message 5: by Kelly B (new)

Kelly B (kellybey) | 266 comments Do you think Raskolnikov’s “epiphany” allows him to eventually turn his life around? Does Raskolnikov really believe in penance, is he just going through the motions because he is selfish or does he even deserve to be forgiven (especially by Sonia)?

I don't know if he'll turn his life around or not. He might for Sonia's sake. On the other hand, he seemed very strong in his convictions, and believes that murder is sometimes justified.

R isn't doing penance for his crime, because he doesn't truly believe a crime has been committed. He only feels remorse over being found out. He has no guilt over the actual murders.

I think he's going through the motions for Sonia's sake. I don't think he deserves to be forgiven, and I think Sonia's a fool for wanting to stay with him.


message 6: by Kelly B (new)

Kelly B (kellybey) | 266 comments 3. Is Raskolnikov capable of committing murder again?

Yes, I definitely think he's capable of committing murder again.


message 7: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 21, 2014 07:51AM) (new)

Sonia,

I am in agreement with your comments. Somehow, I do not think that RR could set aside his strongly held beliefs so quickly, so I am not certain if his "repentance" was true or more for the sake of Sonia.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky's ending seemed a bit convenient to me. However, I do think the author was trying to convey the idea that nihilistic beliefs (with the rejection of faith, morality, etc) causes a person to lose their sense of humanity and therefore they lose themselves.


message 8: by Katy, New School Classics (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 9116 comments Mod
Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky is our 2019 2nd Quarter Long Read for the group. The group previously read the book in 2014.

This is one of seven Spoiler Threads

Reading schedule:

April 1 - 15: Part One

April 16 - 30: Part Two

May 1 - 15: Part Three

May 16- 31: Part Four

June 1 - 15: Part Five

June 16 - 30: Part Six & Epilogue

Book as a Whole

Film versions of the book.

Previous thread on translations


message 9: by Bob, Short Story Classics (new)

Bob | 4710 comments Mod
Damn this book! It's great, its terrible and now I have to reread part 6 chapter 6. Svinrigailov, is another character in this book designed just to give me heartburn?


message 10: by Cynda (new)

Cynda | 2358 comments Haha Svinrigailov is a piece of work. RR is a tormented soul. Most of the women want so much to help. It is RR can best help himself. Isn't it just the way of things that people often create their own emotional dramas and only they can get themselves out.

Watching and waiting for RR to resolve his problem is nerve wracking, is what makes reading the book both challenging and compelling. I may be able to put the book aside fir a day or two, but soon I feel the need to trudge on.


message 11: by Katy, New School Classics (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 9116 comments Mod
Last couple of week for this group read.

There is also a Book as a Whole thread for spoilers in the entire book.


message 12: by Denise (new)

Denise  Shaw | 15 comments I love hoe people can't decide who / what RR is :-) Is he tormented? Evil? Misunderstood? Misjudged? I think he is all of those and more, however, I do not think he is remorseful, not even for sake of Sonia's love. He has been too staunchly justified in his actions to suddenly have a change of heart. Reading this was like seeing a car accident... you want to look away but can't.


Jen from Quebec :0) (muppetbaby99) | 215 comments Gawd, I love this book, despite the loooong VERY Russian names of the characters (I tend to give the characters my own nicknanes, to aide in reading- Raskolnikoff is simply 'Rascal' to me ;0) ).

Despite the killings, it is easy for readers to be on Raskol's side, imo. I don't think that he is an 'evil murderer' nor do I think that he would continue to murder in the future- I feel that his killings were almost a political statement on the inequality of capitalism.... --Jen from Quebec :0)


message 14: by Denise (new)

Denise  Shaw | 15 comments Jen from Quebec :0) wrote: "Gawd, I love this book, despite the loooong VERY Russian names of the characters (I tend to give the characters my own nicknanes, to aide in reading- Raskolnikoff is simply 'Rascal' to me ;0) ).

D..."


HA! I do the same thing with the nicknames! I called him "Niko" :-)


message 15: by Matt (new)

Matt (mmullerm) | 678 comments ”I dare say. I can see I’m ridiculous myself,” muttered Raskolnikov angrily.

I love this line near the end of chapter 4 of part 6. I’ve noticed a concentrated effort by Dostoevsky throughout the novel to make Rakolnikov look foolish - at least Rodion can see it for himself!

Porfiry, Luzhin and Svidrigsilov are the perfect foils for Raskolnikov. The combination of these 3 characters to challenge Raskolnikov and get under his skin is really brilliant. Porfiry knows how to push his buttons.

I’ll be finishing C&P this week. I’ve enjoyed this re-read of the novel even better than the first time I read it and have gotten a lot more out of it this time.


message 16: by Denise (new)

Denise  Shaw | 15 comments Matt wrote: "”I dare say. I can see I’m ridiculous myself,” muttered Raskolnikov angrily.

I love this line near the end of chapter 4 of part 6. I’ve noticed a concentrated effort by Dostoevsky throughout the n..."


That line has stuck with me as well, Matt. I confess I find myself muttering it occasionally!. :-)


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