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XI. Misc > Thank you!!

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message 1: by Groovy (last edited Mar 07, 2016 11:29AM) (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments Thanks to all for contributing:)


message 2: by Mellie (last edited Mar 04, 2016 09:49PM) (new)

Mellie (mellie42) | 538 comments Groovy wrote: "If there are 50 reviews, Amazon lists a book in its newsletters and other promotions."

This sounds like the same error ridden meme that did the rounds on FB (and that was promoted/originated by a review selling service). This line in particular is complete rubbish. There is NO magical number of reviews that makes Amazon promote your book. It's an urban myth that needs debunking as it perpetuates the mindset of authors chasing (and doing anything) for reviews.

Amazon algorithms are driven by sales.

Sales are what prompts Amazon to include your book in their emails to readers.

Sales are what populates the Also Boughts that appear on your book page.

If you want more reviews then the answer is simple, sell more books. You will receive roughly 1 organic review for every 100 sales. Number of reviews is completely irrelevant except for the Top Rated lists. Learn how Amazon's algorithms work before you start repeating wrong/misleading information.


message 3: by Grace (new)

Grace Crandall | 108 comments I get a bump in sales every time I get a new Amazon review, and most of those reviews aren't the kind I, as a reader, would usually listen to--one-sentence deeliboppers more than thought-out and measured critiques. But I really love every one of them, and they're a genuine help with sales--which in turn bumps rating, which in turn can encourage Amazon to promote--so I think that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg deal.

But thank you for setting up this thread, because seriously, any kind of feedback or mention readers can give to a new author is extremely helpful :)


message 4: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Grace wrote: "I get a bump in sales every time I get a new Amazon review, and most of those reviews aren't the kind I, as a reader, would usually listen to--one-sentence deeliboppers more than thought-out and me..."

Fascinating. I wish I did. I'm pretty new to all this, and the reviews are slowly coming in, but I haven't noticed bumps in sales, which would have to be from the reviews because I'm not doing any other promoting right this minute, until I get Book 2 to the next stage (almost there). I can only focus on one thing at a time, but I do check to see if there are changes in the number of reviews.


message 5: by Segilola (new)

Segilola Salami (segilolasalami) | 111 comments Hi Alicia,

There are a number of bloggers on here that are looking for books to review. Consider contacting them and offering a free ebook in exchange for an honest review.


message 6: by Groovy (last edited Mar 05, 2016 07:50PM) (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "If there are 50 reviews, Amazon lists a book in its newsletters and other promotions."

This sounds like the same error ridden meme that did the rounds on FB (and that was promoted/o..."


A.W., I said I found this and thought I'd share it, whether anyone agrees with it or not. But thanks for DEBUNKING the 50 review sentence. Now I, and everyone else who reads it, has been schooled--maybe.

Next time, you feel the need to correct someone, try not to fly off the deep edge--there was really no need. Maybe take your pills before hand--and since you know so much, maybe post some helpful tips we all can benefit from??


message 7: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments Alicia, I agree with Segilola. There are bloggers who would love to review your books. I've met some of the nicest ones. But be prepared to work. They are often inundated with requests, which means out of the ten you may contact, you'll probably hear from, or get accepted, by one.

All the best in your search:)


message 8: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Segilola wrote: "Hi Alicia,

There are a number of bloggers on here that are looking for books to review. Consider contacting them and offering a free ebook in exchange for an honest review."


I have - innumerable times. Top Amazon reviewers and regular bloggers. I have a few reviews from that.

I take my time, read the blog or other reviews, try to find reviewers who would like the book.

It is still slow. Some want paper - which gets expensive (I do some of those). I am on Wattpad, and serialized the story there as I polished it (not as I wrote it - nobody wants to see that). Several people from there read and were kind enough to review.

I am in several FB groups - I gently offered books there, and received a couple of lovely reviews.

I have extremely limited energy, and writing comes first. So I will never be able to speed things up on my own. I'm hoping for word of mouth; for a long complex novel it is slow.

I'm getting ready to run another Kindle Countdown, and I'm waiting to hear if I can schedule a promotion from ENT.

Growing pains, we call them.


message 9: by P.I. (new)

P.I. (thewordslinger) | 123 comments If you can point me in the direction of these reviewers seeking books to review I'll contact them immediately!
P.I.

Segilola wrote: "Hi Alicia,

There are a number of bloggers on here that are looking for books to review. Consider contacting them and offering a free ebook in exchange for an honest review."



message 10: by Mellie (new)

Mellie (mellie42) | 538 comments Groovy wrote: "Next time, you feel the need to correct someone, try not to fly off the deep edge--there was really no need. Maybe take your pills before hand--and since you know so much, maybe post some helpful tips we all can benefit from?? "

Wow. Don't think I'm the one over reacting here. But as I said, maybe you should check your facts before perpetuating an urban myth. Continuing to post things like "get 50 reviews and Amazon will promote your book" apart from being factually wrong, just sends authors off in a panic to buy or trade reviews. That desperate behaviour to acquire reviews for no reason (apart from lining the pockets of the review service who came up with the meme) has damaged the value of reviews in readers' eyes as numerous authors acquired them by dubious means.

But you are right. I should have kept quiet and let you chase reviews. Maybe once you hit 50, or 100, or whatever you believe the magic number is and your sales haven't moved, you might realise it's not true and you've been conned. I'll go back to writing books and leave you to carry on insulting other authors. That's a great way to motivate people to share tips and hints by the way...


message 11: by Doug (new)

Doug Oudin | 168 comments I like the comment above; 'Reviews are the best way to say thank you to an author'.
Thank you.


message 12: by Effie (last edited Mar 06, 2016 07:11AM) (new)

Effie Kammenou (effiekammenou) | 720 comments A.W. I don't think Groovy was objecting with your information, it think it was your tone. We all pass information here and try to straighten out misinformation minus the condescension.


message 13: by Grace (new)

Grace Crandall | 108 comments Thanks Effie! That's exactly what I've been wanting to say (but I couldn't come up with a kind way to phrase it) :]


message 14: by Effie (new)

Effie Kammenou (effiekammenou) | 720 comments My pleasure, Grace!


message 15: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments Doug wrote: "I like the comment above; 'Reviews are the best way to say thank you to an author'.
Thank you."


I like that one, too:)


message 16: by Groovy (last edited Mar 06, 2016 03:24PM) (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments Effie wrote: "A.W. I don't think Groovy was objecting with your information, it think it was your tone. We all pass information here and try to straighten out misinformation minus the condescension."

Thanks, Effie, and Grace, for that. One of the reasons I'm on Goodreads is to get straightened out if I have the wrong information, or need to look at something from a different prospective. We can all learn from one another.

Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another.

With that said, I have deleted the 50 review sentence since it's misleading. I would appreciate some good tips though that we can all benefit from:)


message 17: by Doug (new)

Doug Oudin | 168 comments I feel compelled to say this; reviews don't always produce results. During the past couple of weeks (during this discussion), I have received three new reviews on Amazon for my book 'Five Weeks to Jamaica'=two 4 Star and one 5 Star. I have not seen any indication of sales resulting from the reviews. Kind of frustrating, because obviously, readers that do find the book like what they found. The trouble is, nobody else seems to be finding it, at least according to my Amazon Author Page.


message 18: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments I agree, Doug. I get the same results. And it seems that word-of-mouth gets the same results, also. Readers like your book, but keeps that fact to themselves--at least that's what it seems to me:)


message 19: by Jim (last edited Mar 06, 2016 04:13PM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1036 comments Most literary seminars, books and articles seem to agree that sales do generate legitimate consumer reviews and that the average is approximately 10 reviews for every 1,000 units sold.

Don't stress or obsess over reviews. Strive to continuously improve upon your technical writing and narrating skills and effective marketing techniques and sales will follow which in turn will generate reviews.

I wish you success.


message 20: by Cphe (last edited Mar 06, 2016 04:26PM) (new)

Cphe | 30 comments Groovy wrote: "I read this from a blog and thought I'd share it; and why if you promised to review a book, to follow through. I'm trying very hard to get reviews, and those that promised a review, to post. I can ..."


I replied the other day but then decided to delete the post because I'm not an author, just a reader.

But if I did come across a book that had say 50 reviews that said "great book" etc without any other information. I wouldn't even consider. That to me is a "red flag"
Would any of you consider buying a book with all reviews like that?


message 21: by Cphe (new)

Cphe | 30 comments Meant to say also that every single book has started out without an initial review. Sometimes from what I've observed reviews are slow to come.

I've never written a review because it helps the author, I've written reviews to tell other readers.

I guess it depends which side of the fence you are sitting on reader or author.

There has been a lot of discussion on the TRF on amazon about the quality/validity of these short three word reviews.


message 22: by D.B. (new)

D.B. Woodling | 70 comments Cphe wrote: "Meant to say also that every single book has started out without an initial review. Sometimes from what I've observed reviews are slow to come.

I've never written a review because it helps the aut..."

Good response, Cphe. A review should be intended to aid the reader in book selection. I know I rely heavily on them.


message 23: by Mellie (last edited Mar 06, 2016 04:52PM) (new)

Mellie (mellie42) | 538 comments Groovy wrote: "Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another..."

That's obviously aimed at me when all I did was try to correct misinformation that is sending authors scrambling in the wrong direction.

Yes, I have been schooled. Thanks so much, you can let it go now. In future I will keep what I have learned about this industry to myself. I won't bother to share what I know about Amazon's algorithms and what drives them, in case I am accused of being "nasty". Far from encouraging sharing, you've just shut this author down.


message 24: by Alexandra (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Groovy wrote: "A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "If there are 50 reviews, Amazon lists a book in its newsletters and other promotions."

This sounds like the same error ridden meme that did the rounds on FB (and that w..."


Wow. That's quite the overreaction to someone simply trying to be helpful.


message 25: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 06, 2016 05:12PM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Doug wrote: "I like the comment above; 'Reviews are the best way to say thank you to an author'.
Thank you."


I say "thank you" to an author by paying my hard earned money for their book. And that's before I even know if I'll actually enjoy it.

Consumer reviews aren't to "thank" the producer (doing so would actually be a conflict of interest negating the lack of bias that makes them of value), they're consumer opinion for the benefit of consumers.

What is it you do to thank your customers?


message 26: by Cphe (new)

Cphe | 30 comments There is quite a "purge" going on at amazon ATM that is getting a lot of traffic on the TRF regarding reviews.

1/ reviewing circles.

2/ friends and family.

3/ the coupon clubbers /getting books etc for free without a disclaimer. " I got this book etc for an honest and unbiased review."


message 27: by Nihar (new)

Nihar Suthar (niharsuthar) | 386 comments You may also want to try reaching out to high profile experts or well recognized people that deal in areas with similar topics or the same genre of your book. This will help a lot in getting exposure for your book.

I sent out my most recent book about cricket to a few high profile sports journalists and cricket players. One sports journalist posted an incredible review in several newspapers and that resulted in calls from the US Embassy/200,000 unique views of my book. Not sure honestly how many translated to sales, but it was great exposure nonetheless.

-Nihar
www.niharsuthar.com


message 28: by Alexandra (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Cphe wrote: "There is quite a "purge" going on at amazon ATM that is getting a lot of traffic on the TRF regarding reviews.

1/ reviewing circles.

2/ friends and family.

3/ the coupon clubbers /getting books ..."


I'm so glad they're cracking down on that nonsense, it's been a long time coming.

That kind of thing is one reason I never consider Amazon reviews when deciding on books to purchase.


message 29: by Cphe (last edited Mar 06, 2016 05:33PM) (new)

Cphe | 30 comments Groovy wrote: "Effie wrote: "A.W. I don't think Groovy was objecting with your information, it think it was your tone. We all pass information here and try to straighten out misinformation minus the condescension..."

I don't feel that there has been any "nastiness" in this forum. Everyone has an opinion and you have to admit if you've been on GR's/Amazon any length of time that this discussion in one form or another does seem to keep cropping up.

Reviews/ reviewing seem to be a "soft spot" with many. There are many, many, many reviewers and authors with integrity who do the right thing.

Also people have their own style of answering questions, some are more brusque than others. It doesn't mean their intentions are misplaced.

If you ask a question then you want the truth, the facts, other experience.


message 30: by Cphe (new)

Cphe | 30 comments BTW the greatest compliment you can give an author is to buy their work, that doesn't necessarily equate to a review.


message 31: by Effie (new)

Effie Kammenou (effiekammenou) | 720 comments A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another..."

That's obviously aimed at me when all I did was try to ..."

Wow! I guess you missed the point. We are a friendly group here. No one is out to be nasty, maybe it is you who should let it go and have the humility to apologize for coming off in a way you did not mean to.


message 32: by Cphe (new)

Cphe | 30 comments From the OP I get the impression that the author/blogger is insinuating that the reviews already written belong to them. (I may be wrong) but I've read the OP several times.

I've never come across a reader either here or amazon who would agree that the review they've written belongs to the author.

Other authors here seem to agree with this about reviews and wanting to, needing to be thanked.

The whole concept just seems strange to me.


message 33: by Doug (new)

Doug Oudin | 168 comments Groovy wrote: "I agree, Doug. I get the same results. And it seems that word-of-mouth gets the same results, also. Readers like your book, but keeps that fact to themselves--at least that's what it seems to me:)"

Yep, Groovy. It does seem that way. On the other hand, I do know that word of mouth works at least some of the time; I've met a few people who told me they bought my book after hearing how much a friend enjoyed the book. To me, WOM works better than reviews.


message 34: by Cphe (last edited Mar 06, 2016 07:04PM) (new)

Cphe | 30 comments I get the "authors aren't rich" theme but by the same token the majority of readers aren't rich either......"shrug"

Anyway good luck to you all.


message 35: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another..."

That's obviously aimed at me when all I did was try to ..."


YAAAAY!!!!!!


message 36: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments This thread is not about how authors are owed anything, because they're not--nada, nothing! I never once hinted at that. So please let's not turn this into readers against authors who feel they're entitled to reviews.

I just wanted to share something I found and was given good advice about it--that's all!!! I appreciate all the good advice I've gotten so far minus the rudeness. All I wanted to know was what you thought about it--The End!!

But we are ALL owed civility and kindness whether we agree with one another or not.


message 37: by Mimi (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments Effie wrote: "A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another..."

That's obviously aimed at me when all I di..."


Well said Effie. We all need to encourage each other, let's be kinder than we HAVE to be.....:-)))


message 38: by Segilola (new)

Segilola Salami (segilolasalami) | 111 comments Hey people let's sing kumbaya for a second. Lets all calm down

Here's my 2cents. Before becoming an author, I was a reader.

As a reader, when picking my next fiction book, I never once looked at reviews. The most that I did to narrow down my selection was to pick books with a 4 star rating and above.

The only time I looked at reviews is for non-fiction books to see what others thought of it.

As a reader, I also very rarely left reviews. The only time I did is whenever Amazon sends me an email asking for a review.

As an author now, I am slowly building a network of beta readers/bloggers to give me feedback and reviews. I joined the bandwagon initially seeking reviews left right and centre but have since stopped. To be honest, I am more interested in seeing the downloads increase first then the reviews if any reader was so inclined to. I would rather one did not leave me a review than say "I liked it or I didn't like it". I feel that such comments would not help anyone who was seeking others opinions. Why did you like it? Why did you not like it?

The biggest thank you is someone taking a chance on me and buying my book. When I see my book purchased, I think to myself, wow!


message 39: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 07, 2016 04:36AM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Effie wrote: "A.W. wrote: "Groovy wrote: "Some know-it-alls just live to bicker, argue, and be nasty; totally unnecessary when we're here to learn from one another..."

That's obviously aimed at me when all I di..."


Nope, it appears you did. And it's not appearing all that friendly. Perhaps being nicer to someone offering help would improve that perception.

It's A. W. who is owed that apology.


message 40: by Alexandra (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Groovy wrote: "But we are ALL owed civility and kindness whether we agree with one another or not. "

One must wonder then, if you truly believe that, why it isn't how you're behaving here?

Because you're sure not treating everyone here with civility and kindness.


message 41: by Groovy (new)

Groovy Lee | 0 comments Segilola wrote: "Hey people let's sing kumbaya for a second. Lets all calm down

Here's my 2cents. Before becoming an author, I was a reader.

As a reader, when picking my next fiction book, I never once looked at ..."


That's how I feel, Segilola. Thankful!!!


message 42: by Mimi (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments I too have to admit, I wasn't a 'reviewer' before becoming an author.
I did my Tripadvisor and Expedia hotel reviews, but not really for books. I honestly didn't have a clue how much they matter.

My friend is a general manager of a major hotel, and he says the stars and diamonds don't matter any more. They all depend on the online reviews, especially Tripadvisor.

Times are changing, we have to help to educate the public. Talk to your friends, post it on your social platforms, and spread the good karma.
READERS really don't know, and I'm sure many would love to help.

Aloha & Mahalo to you all! :-)))

xoxo


message 43: by Cphe (last edited Mar 07, 2016 02:31PM) (new)

Cphe | 30 comments There really seems to be a great divide still between readers and self published authors at least.

Disappointing.

I've only ever considered the" book" - always thought/felt it was about the" book" but reading here it all seems to be about the "author" and how it pertains to them.


message 44: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 07, 2016 03:14PM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Cphe wrote: "There really seems to be a great divide still between readers and self published authors at least.

Disappointing.

I've only ever considered the" book" - always thought/felt it was about the" book..."


True.

I'm still waiting for those authors here who consider a review a nice "thank you to the author" to let me know what they do to thank their customers.

And it continues to boggle my mind how many small business owners think their customers should give them more than the retail price for their product - if those business owners happen to be authors. Just cannot understand for some reason the producer/consumer relationship.

I think we'd all be better off if they took their noses out of the consumer review arena personally, rather than trying to poison the well. And they might be better served taking classes about running a small business, including customer relations and PR.

The time to learn about running a small business would be before launching one, but better late than never.


message 45: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Cphe wrote: "There really seems to be a great divide still between readers and self published authors at least.

Disappointing.

I've only ever considered the" book" - always thought/felt it was about the" book..."


It's about two things.

First, of course, the book. Without a book you like, we would not be having this conversation.

But second, answer for yourself the question: "Do I want more books like this because I like the way this author writes?"

For the first time in history, you have the chance to make your preferences known.

Traditional publishers seek no reader input - you get what they deign to put out. Many a reader has found a favorite series canceled - with no explanation.

They still like the reviews and the stars - because that has come to mean readers approve and BUY what they put out.

But you can affect the future - of this author and books in general - if you like to tell other people what books you've read and appreciated.

Completely your choice - it's a new freedom, and many don't choose to use it. Their future choices may be determined by the people who do.


message 46: by Alexandra (last edited Mar 07, 2016 03:37PM) (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Alicia wrote: "Cphe wrote: "There really seems to be a great divide still between readers and self published authors at least.

Disappointing.

I've only ever considered the" book" - always thought/felt it was ab..."


I think you missed the point Alicia.

Consumer reviews are of value only when given honestly and with no motivation to assist the producer/seller of the product or "thank" them. The vast majority of authors will never see consumer reviews for their books - and that is not a bad thing.

Personally I think it'd be great if indie authors stopped reading consumer reviews for their books - and let the process work naturally as it should for consumers as intended, so it can continue to serve it's actual purpose - for readers and consumers.

Consumer reviews are to assist other consumers in making their purchasing decisions according to their taste.

Product producers who feel a consumer review is a "thank you" to them are confused about what consumer reviews are, and who they are to help.

Authors who believe their customers owe them something beyond obtaining their product by legal means are delusional.

So sure, consumer reviews have value, they have impact, they assist consumers. But that value is negated when producers and sellers poison the well and try to subvert the process. It is the insertion of a conflict of interest - between the seller and the buyer.

When that occurs they cease being consumer reviews and become promotional material for the product seller, and are no longer unbiased.

IMO authors who feel a consumer review is for them are part of the reason consumer reviews are not as trustworthy today as they were a few years ago - particularly for indie books.

That hurts consumers. It also hurts producers.

Hopefully this trend of a *few* trying to subvert consumer reviews and influence readers into feeling they should leave a "thank you" to "help" the seller will die a quick death.


message 47: by Cphe (last edited Mar 07, 2016 03:40PM) (new)

Cphe | 30 comments Alicia, If you look at my reviewing history across amazon and GR's it will show that I don't base my book purchases on authors - it is always the book. I don't even read in a specific genre.

re the "many a reviewer has found a series cancelled - with no explanation" applies to both SP and trade published. There have been quite a few threads on ammie about that topic over the years.

If I come across an author whose POV is of interest then I will purchase their work on these threads. There has been one author here whose work I have bought and reviewed (2 books). I found the genre they write in of interest, and they had good reviews (informative to the reader) books were well priced and good length. They weren't 50 pages touted as a "book" with more to follow on at a price.

I've never spoken to them directly on the boards. But I wouldn't have bought the second book if I wasn't interested in the first book.

BTW I bought and reviewed quite a few SP books over the years and reviewed them on GR's and amazon. I offer the author the compliment of buying their work.

To date unless I've read the this thread incorrectly "the book" has rarely been mentioned - it's all mostly been about the number of reviews - that was the original OP.


message 48: by Effie (new)

Effie Kammenou (effiekammenou) | 720 comments I thank my readers by always acknowledging them when they reach out to me. I've made some very nice connections with people. They've asked me questions about inspiration or about more detail of a character. I've shared deleted scenes with them that the editor asked me to remove and had online book discussions. I always thank them on various social medias when they share my links or give me a positive shout out. I always thank them for the support, and let them know how much it means to someone like me who is a debut author.


message 49: by Jim (last edited Mar 07, 2016 03:51PM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1036 comments Several participants in this thread have expressed their displeasure with and In some cases ridiculed A.W.'s comments or the manner in which they were stated. (Refer to messages 2, 10 & 23).

It usually proves beneficial to view a member's Author Profile to verify their purported expertise pertaining to the subject under discussion prior to accepting or rejecting it.

In this particular case, a cursory review of A.W.'s profile reveals that Ms. Exley is a successful full-time author whose 15 published novels have garnered a total of 4,809 ratings and 626 consumer reviews. She has 488 followers. This impressive data alone should incite those seeking advice pertaining to consumer reviews, sales and their impact upon the Amazon algorithm system to heed and be grateful for A.W.'s input.

All too often novice writers accept advice from those who have not yet achieved success themselves. When seeking expert advice, listen to an expert.


message 50: by Alexandra (new)

Alexandra | 340 comments Jim wrote: "Several participants in this thread have expressed their displeasure with and In some cases ridiculed A.W.'s comments or the manner in which they were stated. (Refer to messages 2, 10 & 23).

It us..."


Well said, Jim.


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