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message 1: by Kenzie (new)

Kenzie | 16 comments Here is a general question for the members of this club:
How do you respond when you hear the phrase, "If you don't vote for Hillary Clinton, you are a sexist."
I ask because this came up in a political discussion between me and someone close to me. Personally, I don't think gender is a factor in my opinions of people. I feel like Hillary has a lot of flip-flop opinions and has been caught in outright lies too many times for me to consider supporting her as president. Her politics are what's important to me, not the fact that she is a woman. Don't get me wrong, though, a woman as president would be a great step in our country's evolution.


message 2: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments I'm not American, but I do vote. I don't respond well to bullying nor do I believe in gender quotas. Whoever is at the top should have earned it, and in this case, should tick the most boxes on my personal list of requirements in a president.

re:quotas, this means a board of ten people could be led by ten fantastic men or ten fantastic women, as long as each of them was better than the competition, based on skills and experience.


message 3: by Lena (new)

Lena | 10 comments Hello Kenzie! For me It's very important for women to be included in politics but I would not vote someone based on their gender. Their ideals are more important! Perhaps you should remind to your friend that Voting for a woman just because she is a woman is a gender discrimination too!


message 4: by Katelyn, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Katelyn (katelynrh) | 836 comments Mod
Yes, I'd say most would agree that "the issues" are more important than gender.

I'd also point out, and I think this is an interesting and related discussion point, that female politicians face a lot of challenges with regards to their gender. So in that sense, gender does become one of the issues that might be taken into consideration. For some, that might be more important than it is for others.


message 5: by Kenzie (new)

Kenzie | 16 comments Katelyn wrote: "Yes, I'd say most would agree that "the issues" are more important than gender.

I'd also point out, and I think this is an interesting and related discussion point, that female politicians face a ..."


Good point! I would think that a female politician is better equipped to speak about feminine issues/needs than a male politician, simply because she would experience it firsthand. I just hate it when her gender is overshadowed by her policies.

Lena wrote: "Hello Kenzie! For me It's very important for women to be included in politics but I would not vote someone based on their gender. Their ideals are more important! Perhaps you should remind to your ..."

Thanks for that thought! I didn't think of that argument the other way around. And for the record, my friend was talking about a third party saying this, not himself.


message 6: by Lena (new)

Lena | 10 comments Kenzie wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "Yes, I'd say most would agree that "the issues" are more important than gender.

I'd also point out, and I think this is an interesting and related discussion point, that female pol..."


sorry, I guess the last part came out wrong!


message 7: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I would agree with you that Hillary is too inconsistent for me to be able to support her with my vote. I wanted to start a political thread but hesitated because it tends to be a touchy subject for some, so thank you for bringing this up!

In response to the "vote for Hilary or you're sexist" comment, i find that absolutely ridiculous. Supporting a candidate purely because of gender is the opposite of progress. Yet at the same time, I've heard comments such as "you only support Hilary because she's a woman" which is equally as unfair to those (women especially) who share her values and opinions and wish to vote for her. Political candidates should be supported based purely on their views.


message 8: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I also find it frustrating that several prominent older "feminists" have voiced their opposition in regards to the younger female generations' lack of support for Hilary. It seems like age is a huge factor, with more support coming from female voters closer to Hilary's age. Goes to show just how much views of feminism can change purely from one generation to the next. When it comes to politics, no, I will not be a woman "helping a woman crack a glass ceiling" if I do not support her on the issues.


message 9: by Katelyn, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Katelyn (katelynrh) | 836 comments Mod
Kenzie wrote: "Good point! I would think that a female politician is better equipped to speak about feminine issues/needs than a male politician, simply because she would experience it firsthand. I just hate it when her gender is overshadowed by her policies."

Then, of course, there are women politicians who are against policies that help women and for policies that hurt women. So while I definitely agree with that point, just because you're a women, doesn't mean you "get it", y'know? So many issues that disproportionately affect women are tied to socioeconomics, race, and other factors as well; being a woman might make it easier for someone to understand these issues, but not necessarily.

For example, a male candidate might have a better record on gender-related issues than a female candidate. Does her gender outweigh her voting history?

(btw, not necessarily talking about Secretary Clinton specifically, I think these distinctions are important considered in the abstract!)


message 10: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Katelyn wrote: "Kenzie wrote: "Good point! I would think that a female politician is better equipped to speak about feminine issues/needs than a male politician, simply because she would experience it firsthand. I..."

I can't recall if it was in this group or elsewhere I've read that women tend to be more familiar with a female boss than a male boss. It is somewhat along the same line as the point I think you're making?


message 11: by Kim (new)

Kim | 1 comments A well informed voter is an empowered voter.
This is my general sentiment about politics.


I will admit from the start I am a Bernie Sanders supporter so I am a biased, but it is because I agree with his policies and I believe he will do what is best for the people and not his SuperPac.

When you visit Sanders and Clinton's websites under their "issues" their policies are very similar to each other when it comes to Women's Rights. While Sanders is not a woman, he has consistently fought for the best interest for women. At the end of the day it is about what they will do, and not who they are.

For reference here is a link to both of their pages:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/figh...
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues...

Point of Information: Trump, Cruz, and Rubio have nothing on Women's Rights.


I do find the way the media portrays women, specifically in politics and Hillary Clinton at the moment, is biased.
When the media reports on the candidates they use words for Hillary that tend to have negative connotations, while the male candidates have more positive connotations, even if they were speaking or acting the same way.

If they are using strong tone:
Hillary is "Screeching and Shrills", while the men are "Passionate and Spirited"

If they are being assertive:
Hillary is "Bossy and Overbearing", while the men are "Confident and Powerful"

This is something that can have a strong effect on how people vote and it is something that needs to change for women to be equal to men.

An interesting Tidbit:
Gloria Steinem, despite her most recent statement and apology about female Sanders supporters, she had said many years ago he was an "honorary woman".
http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/11/glo...


message 12: by Kenzie (new)

Kenzie | 16 comments Katelyn wrote: "Kenzie wrote: "Good point! I would think that a female politician is better equipped to speak about feminine issues/needs than a male politician, simply because she would experience it firsthand. I..."

I think I understand what you're saying here, and it makes sense to me. Thanks for bringing that up.

And to answer Aglaea's question, the point I was trying to make with that last post is that women are better equipped to talk about policies which directly affect women than men because men do not feel the effects as we do. But like Katelyn says, not ALL women "get it." I don't understand the logic behind a woman voting for a policy that puts women down. There could be some connection to females being more comfortable with female bosses. At the moment, I don't see it. If someone could give their input, it would be much appreciated.


message 13: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments The way I meant the female boss analogy was that some women seek sisterhood (whatever that means) and assume familiarity just because of sharing the same gender.

I just got called hostile in another thread, and it must be reality for the reader. Personally, however, I know exactly what I meant, and it most certainly wasn't hostile, so as a conclusion of this small everyday example, women truly aren't the same thought-wise.

The same kind of familiarity, "getting it", as mentioned in my first paragraph, I think Katelyn was referring to. Only we all have vastly different experiences due to culture, socioeconomic factors, race, creed, age, and a zillion different things, so to find familiarity way larger than between me and a random man is ludicrous.


message 14: by Christine US (new)

Christine US (christineus) | 1 comments I've received more than one comment that "you're not being supportive of other women" because I do not want to vote for Hillary. No, it's not that I'm unsupportive of women - it's that I don't agree with her. HUGE difference -- huge. It bothers me that there are women who don't understand that and feel like they need to fall in line to support a female running for President. Where were these women 8 years ago on her first run? Or why didn't they support Palin as a VP? Seems like those would be also logical choices in politics to support women if all we are doing is "supporting based upon gender"


message 15: by Kenzie (last edited Mar 02, 2016 01:58PM) (new)

Kenzie | 16 comments Excellent feedback, everyone! And thanks for those links, Kim! A lot of good points have been made so far.
All-in-all, listen to the policies of the candidates and don't pay attention to the way they are portrayed in the media (because it is biased). Do your own research and form your own opinions. Don't be afraid to listen to the opposition, either. It can open your eyes to new ideas or reassure yourself in your own beliefs. Like Kim has said, the informed voter is an empowered voter. And definitely don't take shit from someone (man or woman) who puts you down because your opinion and values are different from theirs.


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