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Intersectional Feminism > White Feminism

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message 1: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments As a white woman born into an all-white family, who lives in a predominantly white town and went to predominantly white schools, I am curious to hear what everyone thinks of the "white feminist" issue. Is every white woman with feminist views automatically classified as a "white feminist"? If so, what does a white feminist need to hear in order to become more educated on the oppression of ALL women? I am interested in hearing view points on either side. Although I am aware that I'll never be able to truly identify with women of color, I will listen and try my best to understand every circumstance.

message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

I joined this group as soon as I saw this discussion post. I admit, I was a little wary about joining after receiving an invitation.

I can not, and won't speak for every woman of color, but as an individual. I welcome an open dialogue about this conversation. I hope that anything I say can be read or heard with the openness most WoC are expected to give someone else.

Kylie, I think your question is the first step to understanding how different feminism treats women of different races. As a white woman, I don't expect you know or understand things Black women face. That's ok, as long as you're willing to listen to the issues women with intersections have to face.

I think "white feminism" sounds harsh, but the phrase doesn't come from nowhere. When we think feminism, we automatically think our fight for equality will be over once we're able to gain access to the space and opportunities we're often denied as women. But "my" experience as a Black woman, unfortunately means I can gain access to these things, but I'll still the limitations based on my Blackness.

I don't think "every" white feminist is automatically a "white feminist". Olivia Cole is white, and very vocal about the issues PoC, especially Black people face, but as a white woman, she doesn't receive the backlash PoC, especially WoC face when she's vocal about it.

I think once people are forced to face that they have privilege, even when it's only based on race, we naturally get defensive. It's hard admitting you have privilege. Even as a Black woman, I still have privilege. I'm cisgender, abled, and don't practice a religion that receives major scrutiny. It isn't much, but it's still privilege, that I've had to educate myself on.

The topic of race is still an uncomfortable topic. It's often so uncomfortable for white people, because of our history with race. But the more we avoid the topic, the harder it becomes to talk about it. I literally talk about race everyday. Not to complain. Not just to rant. But because I'm deeply affected by the way I have to navigate my Blackness on a daily basis.

I can't afford not to see race. I can't afford to be colorblind. But I also can't afford not be educated on islamphobia, or transphobia, or the unique struggles people with disabilities face.

I've spoken in spaces I shouldn't have in the past because I wanted people to know I was for their cause. But what I could've done better was to listen to their cause, share what they had to say, lift their voices, which I currently do for the marginalizations I don't belong to.

It's a lot to stuff to take in. But that's my take on it =)

message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

I'll also add some old posts from Olivia Cole so you can get a better idea what she's all about =)


message 4: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Thanks for starting the thread. I'd like to listen, but the black feminist and other threads are quiet. It is really hard to form an opinion when people choose silence. Is it because they think I should know without having heard their side of the story, magically be able to read minds? Although how could I? They are silent and I grew up in a mostly white country, so unless you speak up, your voice won't be heard. I'd very much like to listen to it, though.

In the meantime, I'll stick to what I know, inequality in the white world. Because yes, I have privilege in some ways, but on the other hand, only today was I spoken down to by a man in a most condescending way in regards to feminism. He didn't even realise how belittling his words were.

I wish we could get away from "my situation is worse than yours" or "my feminism is more important than yours" or "what are you even talking about, you have privilege coming out every direction". Well, I'm an academic, but I hear people, and let me tell you that even the most brilliant minds among women my age face inequality every day, be it in science or business or something else.

message 5: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Guinevere, thank you for allowing me to hear to your point of view. I was afraid no one would contribute because, as you said, race can be an uncomfortable topic. I'll admit that for a long time I was someone who would avoid asking questions in fear of confrontation, that I was fine with the "it is how it is" mindset. Staying that way would be easy, but I don't want easy. Accepting the fact that I automatically have certain privileges was and is something I still struggle to keep in mind, and I'm still learning when to contribute to the conversation and when to shut my mouth and absorb what others have to say. I want to learn and I want to try my best to understand the perspectives of people who are different than me in any and every way. Please, continue to speak up and I hope others will add to the conversation. And thank you for sharing the Olivia Cole link, I'll definitely look into her :)

message 6: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments There's already a thread for white people how to talk about other colours' situations, I thought the purpose of this thread was different. Sorry if my contribution is off topic, I can delete.

message 7: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Aglaea, I see where you're coming from in regards to the fact that purely being a woman means lacking a certain privilege. I work in customer service, and I can't count the amount of times I've been talked down to by a man, usually in some sexualized manner, only to then see said man get angry when I'm not accepting of his "compliments".

& yes, I would agree with you that it is not healthy to pit ourselves against each other in regards to who has it worse off in the world. But to me, part of being a feminist Is recognizing the fact that, even though we are all in this together, some women DO have it worse than others in regards to oppression. I feel a responsibility to educate myself on their points of view.

I hope anyone reading will contribute!!

message 8: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I looked and couldn't find one so I started a new one, whoops, I'll look into that one as well

message 9: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Oh my god, yes, I used to work in a store for interior decoration stuff during my student years, and occasionally in a reception area, too. It was always amazing to me how blankly some people stared at me, and how idiotic some others thought I was.

I'd never flaunt my education, because it's a privilege on a global scale, seeing as our universities are free of charge, but in a few cases you had these snotty, snobby women come in, clearly not employed but kept housewives, and they thought it appropriate to treat me like a fifth-class maid. So there I was, working on my Master's degree and making a living during school year, yet the staring down the nose was no infrequent occurrence. It's the same sort of people that never acknowledge the cleaning crew in office buildings.

In regards to educating me about how others can have it, much worse in some cases, I think it's how it's supposed to be. But at times I feel like my own, less bad experience is belittled simply due to privilege. And I'd like to address this at least in one thread here. After all, inequality bluntly said is "yes" or "no", even when there's a sliding scale of "more" or "less". It's bad if there is even just a bit of "yes", in my humble opinion.

message 10: by Bunny (new)

Bunny I think it's really important not to assume that just because I've had certain experiences with being shut out or dismissed as a woman that means I automatically understand other forms of oppression too. It doesn't work that way. I have to educate myself. I have to reach out and I have to listen to people whose experience is different than mine. I have to be careful to really try to understand and learn.

It's also really important to try very hard not to treat it like a competition. What is sometimes called oppression Olympics. It's really important for me to try to get rid of that idea that I've learned from my culture that there's only enough fairness to go around for a few people and if somebody else is asking for fairness then they are taking mine. If I think about it it's actually a very silly idea but it's an old habit that is easy to fall into.

message 11: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Algaea, I've encountered those type of people as well, as if their sole entertainment is to ruin the days of people whom they view as "lesser". It saddens me to imagine how badly they must view themselves in order to be content with treating others in such a negative manner.

Bunny, I agree with what you said completely. That's what I'm trying to work on, and the conversation that Im trying to start with this post. I can't allow my own experiences, with life in general and with oppression because of my gender, to cloud my desire to empathize and understand what other women go through on a daily basis as well.

message 12: by Katelyn, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Katelyn (katelynrh) | 836 comments Mod
Moved to Intersectionality folder

Hope that's okay. I think it has a better fit there, and perhaps will draw more people's attention to the other posts that are there :)

message 13: by Bunny (last edited Mar 01, 2016 01:57PM) (new)

Bunny Here is a relatively small example of something I did not understand until I talked to black women about it. As a white woman in my particular culture my experience has been that if I get "dressed up" people will ask me if I have a hot date or suggest that I'm trying to flirt with or impress some (male) person. So my experience tends to frame dressing more elegantly or formally as a way to draw male attention or approval. Alternatively it might be framed as vanity or showing off. Especially wearing anything very expensive might be seen as showing off.

What I did not understand because it is not part of my experience is that black women in my culture often have to deal with stereotypes that assume they are poor and likely also dishonest and uneducated. As a white woman I can go into a store dressed casually and not be followed by the store detective. I can go to a meeting or to a doctor in jeans and not have people assume that I haven't graduated high school and need to have long words explained to me.

So when a black woman dresses formally or in expensive clothes in a US city it means something different than trying to flirt or show off. It's about saying I am perfectly capable of buying anything in the store so stop following me around assuming I am here to steal. It means I have a college education and a job don't "help" me read the handout.

But until I talk to black women about their experience I don't have the background to understand this.

message 14: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Bunny, Imagining that a woman has to give a second thought about dressing for comfort because of how she will perceived in regards to her race angers me beyond comprehension. The fact that I don't have to think about these things in my day to day life speaks volumes to what I still don't know, and will never be able to fully understand.

I am just starting to scratch the surface of literature that accurately represents the reality of race relations in the US ... If anyone has any suggestions on pieces that could expand on this I would love look into it!

message 15: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments & thank you katelyn :) Still trying to get the hang of everything !

message 16: by Bunny (last edited Mar 01, 2016 04:01PM) (new)

Bunny So like I say its a small example but learning about it helps me to understand why dressing elegantly is especially meaningful to women of color in my culture. As a sort of defiance almost. As well as a matter of self defense.

message 17: by Mariel (new)

Mariel Buttigliero | 5 comments Guinevere, your posts are a delight to read. I participate in different feminist forums and I had to leave a few because in some, it would seem like if you are white, you cannot be a feminist or have an opinion at all. I am Latina (but white-passing I guess), and I couldn't even comment on issues about Latinas without a huge backlash from many group members because I wasn't "brown enough" apparently or without explaining my whole genealogy. How come a feminist space becomes a place where some members shut others up because of their race? Don't get me wrong; white feminism is very real when it comes to race issues. I am a latina in a latin american country, so I guess it's just the same as being white (because we are the privileged majority) so I am always reading about race and learn what challenges PoC face that I don't (and I learned a LOT from those groups before they became kind of "toxic"), and one thing that struck me the most was how white feminists try to speak on behalf of PoC on race issues. That's definitely not OK and white feminists should "take a seat" and listen. But when it comes to gender issues, we should all be able to speak our mind without getting backlash. Of course we should always acknowledge that our perspective can sometimes be one-sided and that other feminists can add a deeper insight on any matter so... what better way to learn than hearing each other out?

message 18: by Bunny (new)

Bunny Sometimes I think there's some anger that's uncomfortable to listen to and sit through. But its not anger from nowhere. I am sure that sometimes I am too angry to be polite and calm with men about the shit I have to deal with. And sometimes I just bite my tongue and let it pass. But sometimes my tongue gets sore.

message 19: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Mariel wrote: "one thing that struck me the most was how white feminists try to speak on behalf of PoC on race issues"

One thing that is difficult is this very point. How do I exclude nobody and include everyone, if I'm not allowed to mention also examples told to me by people of a different skin colour than mine? Using my social network by drawing on everyone's experience when fighting the feminist fight (so to speak) should only be a normal thing, yet from this "speaking on someone's behalf" thing, it's like I want to waltz in and take some sort of leadership position? Or?

There has to be some kind of detail I'm missing here, because I'm not interested in telling others how to live, I'm not looking to rob others of their voice. So pray tell, how am I supposed to use others' experiences, even white womens (oh, but that seems legitimate all of a sudden because we have the correct common denominator now, forget all about country, culture, social class, etc. though...), unless I've applied to some board of head feminists for permission to mention said examples. Like I said, I stay out of people's lives, but inequality concerns me, too, and sorry but I'm not credible unless I can mention first-hand experiences rather than hearsay.

If we are discussing sexuality, gender and sex, I'm to understand that since I'm not for instance lesbian or transgender, I should just shut up about using their examples, their experiences, too, when discussing feminism? Do you (general you) see exactly what you're asking of white women? Stay out of our business, but unless you speak up on our behalf, you suck. How does that work?

I'm not my historic past. I'm me. I've not consciously discriminated people of colour. Most likely I have in practice, but that's probably due to the fact that I didn't grow up in such an environment where the whole range was represented. I didn't choose the geographic location where I was born nor did I choose the family I was born into. It was decided on my behalf, but it doesn't mean that I'm interested in belittling those, who have a different personal context. It doesn't mean that I wish to speak over someone else, drown their voice. I just want information, personal experiences. But maybe you don't trust me to use it well?

As for black feminism, for example, in the very thread that we have here for the purpose, a black woman said it's sad that white women don't experience every day what black women have to endure and I found it rather offensive. But maybe I/we should be punished for actions that others have done before us, I don't know.

message 20: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Algaea, what I took from the comments Mariel made was that it's completely okay to participate in any conversation and, as you said, use examples told to you by POC, or whoever the conversation is aimed, to further said conversation.
But what isn't okay is when a white person takes it upon themselves to speak like they know what it's like to be black. Or when a straight person says things along the lines of "I know what you've been through" to a transgender. Which, obviously, is impossible to know and can lead to feelings of hostility.

So what I get from this is that no one will ever truly know what it's like to be someone else, so taking in what others have to say, and contributing when you can, instead of acting like you have personally felt their pain is the best way to have a productive conversation when it comes to topics such as those.

message 21: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Sure, but when I hear it is "sad" that I have no idea of what black women face in regards to inequality (that I haven't the same experience), frankly I don't give a shit about hearing such a person's experience.

I matter, too, and I certainly didn't choose my skin colour, but deserve respect just as much as any black woman, or other human being for that matter. My experience isn't any less valid, it is just different.

message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

It's your responsibility to care about everyone's problems, taking each of them separately and analyzing their particular situation, and if you don't do that, well, you're racist. Deal with it!

message 23: by Bunny (new)

Bunny It sounds to me like you are angry and frustrated Aglaea, and feel that you can't figure out how to navigate this in a way that isn't painful. If I may offer, from my own experience, sometimes you just have to accept that you are dealing with an upsetting subject and its not possible to deal with it in a way that doesn't get painful or frustrating or upsetting sometimes. Demanding that I be made comfortable when talking about painful things may not be a reasonable demand. Sometimes I need to actually live with some discomfort in order to learn.

message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes, Aglaea, don't be angry, everything's all right! Just be submissive to circumstances!

message 25: by Bunny (last edited Mar 02, 2016 07:24AM) (new)

Bunny Sometimes the really important conversations are difficult. Just because something is hard doesn't mean its not worthwhile. Its okay to be angry. Its okay to be frustrated. Honest emotions are not the problem.

message 26: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I completely agree with you. Everyone has a different story to tell and different experiences to share, and whoever made that comment is unfortunately narrow-minded. We definitely won't learn from each other's differences if we're pitting one against another

message 27: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments And let's not take to calling people racists just for voicing a frustration. We're here to encourage conversation and respectful debate, not stifle it with words such as that.

message 28: by Bunny (new)

Bunny I don't actually understand Leo's comments. I don't know if he is being sarcastic or what. I think its possible he's trying to say look you can't win whatever you do so you might as well give up. Not sure. Since I can't understand what is meant I'm going to just move on for the time being.

For my own part, its been pretty hard to come to see how my society is white supremacist in so many ways that were just completely invisible to me for a long time. Because I was comfortable and it wasn't in my face. Learning that there were bad things going on that I didn't notice made me very uncomfortable, but that discomfort was the first part of opening my eyes to how I was being misled on some important things.

message 29: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Bunny, I'm with you on this. I was blind to so many things that I thought I was at least adequately educated on, with which I was sorely mistaken. I still haven't been exposed (yet) to too many different cultures and people, that's why I'm excited to be a part of this group

message 30: by Bunny (last edited Mar 02, 2016 08:22AM) (new)

Bunny And sometimes it hurts and sometimes its uncomfortable and sometimes people get mad and yell at me. But I really need to take a deep breath sometimes and not just react. Because if I'm uncomfortable because I'm being confronted with something I didn't want to know about, well hmmm. Don't tell me things I don't want to hear isn't always the best way for me to learn, eh?

I'm not saying its easy because it isn't. But I think its important.

message 31: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Butler | 18 comments The difference between a "white feminist" and "a feminist who is white" is who they stand for.

For example: Taylor Swift is often labeled a white feminist because, while she stands for feminism, she tends to portray mainstream feminism - the type of feminism that affects/benefits white women.

However, a feminist who is white is a feminist who has white skin, and stands for women/people of all races, identities, religions, and abilities.

message 32: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Thanks Amanda, I had heard the term several times in passing and upon my searches found conflicting definitions, so I figured I'd take it up with you all.

message 33: by Amanda (last edited Mar 02, 2016 01:11PM) (new)

Amanda Butler | 18 comments Kylie wrote: "Thanks Amanda, I had heard the term several times in passing and upon my searches found conflicting definitions, so I figured I'd take it up with you all."

No problem! It's good that you're searching for a non-biased definition.

Something I've learned over the last few years is that there is no shame in being white. However, white people as a group have done some awful things in the past. This does not mean we should slump over with white guilt - white guilt and white tears (two terms meaning the guilt of being white, and metaphorical tears regarding white guilt) will not help people of color.

As white people, our role in this is to say our piece when we are needed, and to not talk over the experiences of people of color.

I know we're here because of a book club, but I recommend the book "Dear White People" by Justin Simien for further reading on what it means to be a feminist who is white.

EDIT: I misspoke; the book itself does not explain what it means to be a feminist who is white - reading the book can help feminists who are white understand how the world affects black people.

message 34: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Funny how stuff sounds depending on who reads it and what one chooses to read into someone's comment. I was, and still am, cool as a cucumber. Just because I don't beat around the bush with a strong opinion, doesn't mean I'm super angry.

It is rather frequent in the minority threads how white feminists should listen to experiences and opinions voiced by people of colour, like it is our fault that they as individuals experience inequality in their part of the world. Should we hear them out? Hell yes. Should they hear us out? Hell yes. Only I can't hear anything because nobody is speaking up in the dedicated threads. That is the only thing that truly frustrates me. But does it make me angry? No.

An isolated comment made me pissed off, but I'm not crying about it when I go to sleep. I have a right to say out loud that I got pissed off, though, and also that I feel there is no bridge coming from the other direction. Numerous white women have reached out so far in this group, only to be met with silence. But perhaps that us how the other groups want it?

message 35: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Leo wrote: "It's your responsibility to care about everyone's problems, taking each of them separately and analyzing their particular situation, and if you don't do that, well, you're racist. Deal with it!"

Someone got up on the sarcastic foot, me thinks :P

message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

If you say it it's not funny anymore.

message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

When you talk this way you achieve a big thing. Everyone stays the way he/she indeed is. Then no one gets frustrated because they're not able to understand something.

message 38: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Amanda wrote: "As white people, our role in this is to say our piece when we are needed, and to not talk over the experiences of people of color. "

If opinions on feminism in skin colour perspective is asked for, I would never pretend to understand just how people of colour have experienced life.

If feminism is discussed, I will speak as myself, as woman, cis, questioning my sexual interests. I know inequality from my own perspective.

I've never been asked by a PoC about my experiences of inequality specifically as a white person - which is probably the one and only point I'm interested in making in this particular thread.

message 39: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Butler | 18 comments Aglaea wrote: "Amanda wrote: "As white people, our role in this is to say our piece when we are needed, and to not talk over the experiences of people of color. "

If opinions on feminism in skin colour perspecti..."

I completely agree! I guess what I meant was that we should speak up to address injustice, while never talking over another.

message 40: by Bunny (new)

Bunny I'm not particularly surprised woc aren't showing up in numbers to explain themselves to a what certainly sounds like a hostile audience. I think I myself will also find somewhere else to be.

message 41: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Bunny wrote: "I'm not particularly surprised woc aren't showing up in numbers to explain themselves to a what certainly sounds like a hostile audience. I think I myself will also find somewhere else to be."

Hostile huh. And explaining themselves. I think you're putting words into my mouth that have never been there. I've said in another thread that words are very easy to misinterpret and my style is to use plain language. Sorry if you don't like it.

message 42: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I don't think anyone is being hostile here, and I wasn't asking women of color to "explain themselves". I was simply wondering about how everyone, regardless of color/gender/sexuality, regarded the term "white feminist". there is absolutely nothing wrong with having strong opinions. I hoped for them when starting this thread, and I appreciate every view point that has been given.

Aglaea, I agree with you that one side should not be addressed without also addressing the other. I wish there was just one large thread where everyone could share their personal experiences in regards to oppression based on gender.

message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Chiming in. I've been looking on and off since the conversation grew, and I'd like to address why some WoC often don't speak up in threads like this.

They leave.

Simple as that. It's really easy to feel silenced in a conversation like this, and we're so used to it, we often feel as though our opinion isn't welcome when someone doesn't agree with us or what we have to say about the struggles we face.

We're used to being silenced on a daily basis. We often don't want to deal with the trouble, the backlash, the educating, the negativity that comes with us being honest and/or candid about our challenges.

I wanted to touch on something Mariel mentioned. I'm a US born Black-Cuban woman. She's a White passing Latina. We're both Latina, but I'm seen as solely Black in the United States. I live in a diverse community of people and am often forced to deal with misogyny among white people, latino people(regardless of race) and well as non-latino black people. And as a Black woman, I also have to deal with misogynoir, misogyny in communities of people that look like me.

I'm don't want to undermine what white women go through, but Black women literally jump through hurdles because our challenge for equality isn't just from white men.

I know where you were going with this thread Kylie. And I really appreciate you wanting learn how to support women who otherwise face different challenges than you.

It's really easy to feel attacked in a conversation like this, so I think that's a simple answer to why WoC prefer not to participate in conversations like this.

message 44: by Aglaea (last edited Mar 02, 2016 02:17PM) (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Thanks for not leaving the conversation. I've waited patiently, with an open mind and curiously, very eager to hear stories in the other threads. The reason I feel frustrated because of silence is due to the fact that I, who pride myself in being fairly perceptive, was shot down before we even got started. Because silence implies that I'm not worth your time, that I have no real interest in your stories, that I can't possibly be genuinely interested in listening only (without talking over your experience), and that I can't on at least some level understand even though I will never walk in your shoes.

Likewise, I'm a bit hurt by the fact that my feminism isn't deemed interesting enough to ask questions about in its own thread, but because I'm white I need to carry on my shoulders both my own and your feminism. I can't do the latter unless you help me by telling me about your life, and while some might say nobody asked me to carry two (well all of them because I'm privileged) feminisms, it is very clearly expected of white public figures to include PoC and sexual/sex minorities (and if they don't live up to expectations, we get to judge them very harshly).

And my feminism? Locally, men think I'm delusional, as there "is no inequality anymore". At least in your case, someone, when pushed against a wall, will eventually admit to there still being lots of unfair treatment. White, (in particular educated) women where I am, though? Our inequality doesn't exist. We are ridiculed and have to fight an invisible ghost. It may not be much in comparison, but it is something all right.

message 45: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Aglaea, I've heard time and time again things along the lines of "what do you have to complain about?" Or that nowadays feminism isn't relevant because we have equal rights (mostly coming from men). None of this is true. Belittling women has become so engrained into society that some people don't even notice the effect it has. Small, simple things even. I have a degree in criminal justice, with no desire to actually become a cop, and yet time and time again I've gotten the "you don't want to do that stuff sweetie" "you think you can compete with the boys?" comments, before I'm even asked what I would actually like to do with my degree.

In regards to scrutiny endured by public figures, in my opinion if a woman in the public eye is going to declare themselves a feminist, then they either have a responsibility to shine their spotlight equally on issues that different women face, or they have to expect and endure the heavy criticism that will follow if they don't. To me, That's just the price of being a famous person followed by media.

Guinevere, thank you again for contributing. I will never learn anything until I ask, I just never knew how to ask. I would love to know more about you and everyone in this group. I am more than willing to hear any specific experiences if you would be willing to share with me.

message 46: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 02, 2016 04:11PM) (new)

Kylie wrote: "Aglaea, I've heard time and time again things along the lines of "what do you have to complain about?" Or that nowadays feminism isn't relevant because we have equal rights (mostly coming from men)..."

So... Famous people are people who wouldn't really need to fight against society, they could just accept it, because they are rich enough as not to care about some of the discrimination they face. And if they do fight, and not just for them, for more people, they have to deal with heavy criticism? Because that's the price they pay for being famous?

Seriously, you don't see anything failing there? I can't understand when doing something for the others if you are succesful in your life has become your obligation, and bashing on you if you're not as perfect as we want you to be. I mean I do understand when that started but I would like you to think about it too.

In fact, it's amazing how we've convinced them to be our daddies/mommies. Because we obviously can't/don't want to deal with our problems on our own.

message 47: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments Leo, I'm not staying that I think it's right, I'm saying that that's what's to be expected today with the level of scrutiny that famous people face. I personally think that ethics in the media are seriously lacking to put it mildly. So in a way, yes, if someone is famous and they publicly pledge to a cause then I feel like it would be unfortunate if they did not use their power to get as many people talking as they can. Let's face it, when it comes to people in the spotlight, they could be the kindest, most humble, giving humanitarian on planet earth and someone would still find something to criticize. So also yes, I think fame is synonymous with criticism. As unfortunate as that is, until people stop feeding into it, then that won't change.

message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, then I agree with you :D. They'd rather be hateful people, and problem solved. Maybe someone will convince them...

message 49: by Kylie (new)

Kylie Reardon | 49 comments I try do my part by making sure hateful people I encounter are painfully aware of how hateful they're being.. Oh, and I religiously avoid the tabloid aisle :)

message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, you can be hateful for a good reason. It's not like being hateful for the sake of being hateful. Look at Marilyn Manson, he couldn't be more hateful and millions of people love him. He must be doing something right!

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