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Archive > Football and Feminism!

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message 1: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments I like football very much and I also consider myself to be a feminist. I'm not playing football myself, but I love to watch football when my favourite club has a game. And I always watch Bundesliga every saturday at six, when there are all the football games of the German league summed up and commented. I just love to watch it with my dad. My mum also joins us, but I am the most freaked out one.

Football is not very feministic (at least in my opinion!). The language used and the fact that female football gets way too less attention for instance.

How can we make football more equal for all genders?


message 2: by Kressel (new)

Kressel Housman | 436 comments What you're talking about is what we Americans call soccer, right? (I'm just pointing that out for clarity. By all means, call it football. The majority of the world does.)


message 3: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 24, 2016 12:18PM) (new)

Well, your country has the most important feminine football league in the world if I'm not wrong, so if you complain, what about the rest of us? Hahaha, just kidding.

It's not about football, but about sports in general. Women are way less attracted to sports than men, because sports involve physical contact, fighting, being rough, and that's supposed to be a males' thing.

So, in order to change that we should destroy all these stereotypes and allow women to compete, to fight, to be physically and mentally strong, to challenge. And then things would flow naturally and, as football right now is the main sport in most countries, it would grow.

Nevertheless, there will always be a difference in some sports like football because of the physical difference between men and women, as long as our musculature is different. Men will always be better generally speaking because of their physical superiority. And that might attract more people to watch males than females practising it. But that has nothing to do with the actual situation. The lack of female football players of today and decent feminine football leagues is due to patriarchy, not to natural differences.


message 4: by Kressel (new)

Kressel Housman | 436 comments Elena wrote: "It's not about football, but about sports in general. Women are way less attracted to sports than men, because sports involve physical contact, fighting, being rough, and that's supposed to be a males' thing. "

I can't deny there's something to this socialization against sports, but at the same time, some of us are just really bad at them.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

No one is born being bad at something. And if it's an entire gender who's bad at it, even less. In any case, few women might be really bad at them, just as few men are. But the ammount of women who "are really bad at them" today is surreal.


message 6: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments @Kressel:
Yes, I'm talking about "soccer". But since I love British English (Emma had quite an influence on that), I say football.

@Elena: I'm not living in Germany, but Austria. But still, we speak the same language and football is also the biggest sport in Austria. And you're right, it's about sports in general.

I know, biology does make a difference. I'm not complaining about that, although I hate certain areas of my body( not the obvious one's, I'm feeling perfectly fine with them.)
I just think we should leave unfair play, misogynistic comments and all this bad language in the past. You know, football should not be there to discriminate others because of their gender, race, complexion, sexual orientation or sexual identity, or to push extreme right-wing views. Human, when one hears what some hooligans shout to the players you feel relegated ( I'm not sure if it's the right word) to the Nazi-regime.


message 7: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 24, 2016 12:48PM) (new)

MeerderWörter wrote: "@Kressel:
Yes, I'm talking about "soccer". But since I love British English (Emma had quite an influence on that), I say football.

@Elena: I'm not living in Germany, but Austria. But still, we spe..."


Hooligans are a cancer for any sport, and any team. Sports should have a different meaning from today's one. They're meant to enjoy and have fun, not to argue and insult. We have other issues which are worth insulting and getting angry, more than someone scoring in the side we don't want him to.


message 8: by Saskia (new)

Saskia | 7 comments Every time this topic comes up in a discussion I am reminded of a sad and ridiculous story from women's football: In 1989, the German national team won the women's European championship. Since they were not considered "professional" football players they're prize "money" was a 41 piece coffee set....
To me, this pretty much sums up the status women's sports had (and to a degree still has). It's sad and frustrating that women who put in just as much effort, training and sacrifice as men don't get the same recognition.

I think the most important thing is to get rid of the stereotypes that hurt both men and women: Men who dance ballet are labelled as "gay" or "feminine". I played American Football for a couple of years and I was asked more than once if I was a lesbian.
Not every man likes to play a full-contact sport and not every woman likes to dance ballet!
I just wish we could appreciate the effort and discipline that is required to master any kind of sport instead of tearing down people that don't fit into the out-dated idea of typically male and female sports.


message 9: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments Oh man. "Women athletes" anyone? GROAN! How about just "athlete"? Does anyone think that anyone who burns with an eternal flame for a sport will go anything but all in? Of course not!

One name: Gina Carano.

Saskia, a 41-piece coffee set? :o I'm dying here.


message 10: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments Saskia wrote: "Every time this topic comes up in a discussion I am reminded of a sad and ridiculous story from women's football: In 1989, the German national team won the women's European championship. Since they..."

Saskia, I'm thinking of this a lot. It makes me really sad when people use such stereotypes. You can't label a man who likes to do ballet as gay, just because many men who like to do ballet are gay. That's like saying: All females like to cook.

I was thinking of this too in my first post above.



@Elena:

You're right, hooligans are cancer for every sport. And as you already said, we've got bigger fish to fry. ( I don't know if thif phrase can be used in this context, but I love it very much.)


@Kressel:

If one always gets to hear that they are not good at something, they hardly ever will try and become good at it.


message 11: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments I hate cooking. Just saying.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Saskia wrote: "Every time this topic comes up in a discussion I am reminded of a sad and ridiculous story from women's football: In 1989, the German national team won the women's European championship. Since they..."

For some people it looks like any trace of sensitivity in a man means he's gay. And any trace of agressivity in a woman means she's a lesbian. I can be sensitive in certain moments and ruthless in other moments. We should be ok with being complex and stop trying to simplify our behaviour and thoughts as much as we can. We human beings are meant to grow, not to get stuck in a determined behaviour.


message 13: by MeerderWörter (last edited Feb 24, 2016 01:49PM) (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments Aglaea wrote: "I hate cooking. Just saying."

And I like it. You see, our gender is female, but that doesn't mean we like to cook. Or that females cry when watching romantic scenes or death scenes or the like. Our gender doesn't shape our behaviour or our likes and dislikes.

If only people would recognise this, we would have way fewer problems in sports.


Btw, I hated it when I had to write: men and women, actors and actresses... back in high school. For me, that's more exclusive, because it always reminds me of all the genders that I have not adressed.


message 14: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments Elena wrote: "Saskia wrote: "Every time this topic comes up in a discussion I am reminded of a sad and ridiculous story from women's football: In 1989, the German national team won the women's European champions..."

My thoughts are the same. We shouldn't confuse the boxes. I don't have anything against the boxes, but we should never mix them. Like: box blue: boy, likes football, fancies girls...
box pink: girl, likes dolls, fancies boys...

For me, girl is a box and dolls is a box and fancying girls is a box. The human being consists of many boxes compiled in one room (being said human) and not one box with different traits( the current way of thinking) in it. (I hope you understand, my logic sucks late in the evening.)


message 15: by Camille (new)

Camille | 42 comments Agree! I love watch and play soccer but when I was younger it was impossible to practise because there was no girl's team (and boys didn't like to play with girls of course). I was only able to practise gymnastic or dance and I didn't like that!
Today there are more and more women's team and it's a good thing, but only a few of them offers a living wage. I think the salary is a big part of the problem (once more). There are not many players and a little audience, so no media, then no money, then no salary.


message 16: by Diana (last edited Feb 24, 2016 03:34PM) (new)

Diana (secondhandrose) Here in Australia, women's football (That is Australian Rules Football) is one of the fastest growing sports and the sport's governing body expect to have a women's league playing in 2017. At the moment the competition is amateur while the men can play professionally. I am hoping that changes with the introduction of the women's league. There has been a few issues with girls playing with boys up til about 13 and then they are forced to stop. In the past finding a female comp was hard but this is changing. Last year a women's game was televised. We also have women's soccer televised weekly and women's cricket gets good coverage as well.
My nephew who is a feminist told me that the Australian Football League is actively encouraging female participation through funding developing local and regional competitions. If a local club doesn't foster female participation their chances of funding are smaller. This comes from an organisation that is male dominated.
While there is still a blokey mentality in some areas of our native game it is changing.
This weekend we will have the first female field umpire officiating at a national men's game.
One of my workmates is playing in the women's league and may get to go professional next year so I have an added interest in this issue.
I actively support both men's and women's teams as I enjoy watching various sports.
http://www.afl.com.au/womens


message 17: by Aglaea (new)

Aglaea | 987 comments I have to say it is the attitude that gets to me the most. "Oh, your little football (/acting /music /something else) there..." That "little" is rocking my socks off, so condescending.


message 18: by MeerderWörter (new)

MeerderWörter | 2388 comments Aglaea wrote: "I have to say it is the attitude that gets to me the most. "Oh, your little football (/acting /music /something else) there..." That "little" is rocking my socks off, so condescending."

You should never make something small for people who spend a great time doing it, or want to do it.


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