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Debunking Holocaust Denial Theories
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DEBUNKING HOLOCAUST DENIERS > James Morcan's rant against Holocaust Deniers

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message 1: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 22, 2016 02:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments This essay/post is the result of the disturbing trend within some sectors of society to deny, diminish or otherwise undermine the historicity of the Holocaust. Besides the obvious groups like Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and elements of the Muslim/Christian fundamentalist communities, there is perhaps one group in the 21st Century more responsible for perpetuating the myth that the Holocaust never happened or is vastly exaggerated: conspiracy theorists.

I know this first hand as I am in many ways what can be termed a conspiracy theorist in my work as an author and independent researcher. However, I try to mainly focus on what I call “underground knowledge” - mostly factual things that have been overlooked or underreported in our mainstream media. As WikiLeaks’ founder Julian Assange succinctly put it: “There are conspiracies everywhere. There are also crazed conspiracy theories. It’s important not to confuse these two.” In other words, I write about ideas supported by strong evidence substantiated in court cases, declassified government files and the like rather than pure speculation. Important issues, such as high finance crimes which decimate communities worldwide and media manipulation which can lead to unnecessary wars, that I believe are crucial for people to know about. Often these subjects are conspiracy fact or conspiracy reality rather than theories.

Sometimes as an author and social activist in this field, I get approached by a certain type of casual reader or amateur investigator who form a dangerous element within the conspiracy field: those who simply regurgitate ideas they read about online and attempt to debate historically-proven events like the Holocaust as if they are up for debate at all. And of course the internet is the perfect technology for bigots and haters to capture young and impressionable or otherwise naïve minds. Lately, I have been getting almost weekly emails from people who question whether the Holocaust occurred as per the history books - some of these people even include other authors. Plus, as I have written extensively about the Holocaust and its dark legacy, I also get hate mail quite often from anti-Semites.

Note that I have put my name in the title of this post not for egotistical reasons but because I, as a non-Jew, am standing up with all my being to say one thing: The Holocaust happened EXACTLY as per the history books. Period. Fact. No debate about it whatsoever.

Wikipedia's definition of this historical event summarizes what mainstream historians universally agree upon:

"The Holocaust, also known as the Shoah, was a genocide in which Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its collaborators killed about six million Jews. Period: January 30, 1933 – May 8, 1945."

I believe the Holocaust is an extremely important historical event humanity must learn from if our civilization is to eventually survive let alone achieve world peace one day. In my opinion, all truthseekers should study how on Earth this event was allowed to occur (and "allowed" is the correct term as such genocides are never just perpetrators and victims but rather perpetrators, victims AND bystanders...).

Those who challenge the vast and indisputable historicity of the Holocaust like to state they fall into two distinct camps: Holocaust Deniers (those who say the entire crime of the Nazis never occurred and is just a result of post-war propaganda) and the more common Holocaust Revisionists (those who try to downgrade the death figures from 6 million Jews to only about 50,000 or 500,000 max). But note that the latter group like to also imply that of the tens or hundreds of thousands of Jews they claim to have (only) died, few if any of these "casualties of war" were the result of gas chambers. So essentially revisionists are still denying the Holocaust as there's really very little difference between saying 95% of the Holocaust never happened as saying 100% of it never happened.

So for the rest of this post I will only use the term Holocaust Deniers as I feel the term Holocaust Revisionists gives them far too much respect and makes them sound intellectual or even academic.

I have studied all sides of this so-called debate, read Holocaust survivors' books and watched documentary footage of the actual Holocaust, listened to recordings of Hitler's speeches and infamous Holocaust deniers like David Irving, studied WW2 history etc, etc.

And I can assure you of one thing: Holocaust Deniers always have anti-Semitism somewhere inside them. ALWAYS.

Deniers will pretend they are impartial and say they have simply discovered anomalies in historical records that they wish to report, but deep down there will definitely be a hatred of Jews (even if only a subconscious or unconscious hatred). Sometimes the anti-Semitism is very clear (e.g. David Irving, who after years of claiming he was an unbiased historian with no racial hatred whatsoever, has since made disparaging remarks against Jews and various other non-White races - see his interview with Australian journalist John Safran as one example of Irving's vile racism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBCs...). Other times it's more like a subtle form of brainwashing that is either conspiracy based (e.g. wrongly assuming the banking elite are all Jewish or believing in the age-old myth that the Jews control the entire world) or else religious-based where certain fundamentalists (primarily in extremist forms of Christianity or Islam) believe the Jews are an inferior race or practice an inferior religion.

I've also met a lot of Holocaust survivors and seen the numbered tattoos on their arms that were branded on them by the Nazis. I have listened to the personal eyewitness accounts of these survivors and about what occurred inside the concentration camps and the various atrocities Europe-wide during WW2.


So allow me to list a few of the common myths Holocaust Deniers perpetuate:

MYTH #1: "You could not kill 6,000,000 people in those facilities in Auschwitz and the other death camps! The 6 million figure would be almost impossible to achieve, it would had to have been a hell of a meatgrinder and a superhuman work to kill such an enormous amount of people."

Firstly, 11 million people were killed in the Holocaust, six million of which were Jews, but not all were killed in the death camps (Approximately 3 million Jews are estimated to have died within the concentration camps and not all from being gassed either, many also died from being overworked, malnourished, diseased or experimented on).

Besides the concentration camps, there were Nazi death squads and Eastern European Nazi associates operating with machine guns all over Europe who rounded up and massacred Jews en masse in towns and cities (about 1.5 million are estimated to have been shot in what historians refer to as open-air killings in cities and towns all over Europe). Just research the amount of open-air shootings in Lithuania and Poland alone to see what I mean. Virtually all of which are highly documented.

Beyond Nazi and Nazi associated death squads who machine gunned large groups of Jews all over Europe outside of the concentration camps, the 6 million figure also includes about 500,000 Jews who were starved to death in ghettos in Germany and Poland during AND before the war (refer to the aforementioned definition of the Holocaust being from 1933 until 1945, meaning the death toll began 7 years before the World War began because for European Jews the war started long before Germany began its assault on the rest of the world).

Besides Jews, the other victims in the Holocaust were the Nazi's other "inferior races" or "ïnferior groups" including Roma Gypsies, Poles, Homosexuals, Freemasons, Jehova's Witnesses, Slovenes and disabled people - and these resulted in millions of additional deaths that form the 11 million people in total. It's also very interesting, if you stop to think about it, that nobody ever seems to spend much time denying the fact that all the millions of non-Jewish who were killed in the Holocaust...It's only the death of that many Jews that creates controversy...Why??? The answer is very simple: They are Jewish. That's it - it really is that simple. Had this happened to any other group of people, there would be few if any complaints whatsoever and everyone would accept the facts. Anti-Semitism is one of the most aggressive forces on the planet and always has been going right back to Biblical times...

The Nazis themselves were also meticulous record keepers and kept extensive documentation on deportations and deaths of Jews. Human rights groups have recovered much of the Nazi documentation relating to the Holocaust and have so far found the IDs for over three million confirmed Jewish Holocaust victims who died. Additionally, some documentation relating to the other five million non-Jews who died has also been recovered. This is all easily sourced in the public domain for anyone to find.

Make no mistake about it, most of the Jews living in Europe at that time were killed. About 75% of all European Jews died in fact.
There simply is zero debate on this issue and it is completely historically verified.
And the good news is you can easily prove all this to yourself (and to others) by checking out this frightening statistic:

The global Jewish population in 1939 was 15 million.
Today the global population is just under 13 million!
You can see it on the graph at the bottom of this Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_...

So that's undeniable proof of the Holocaust right there in black and white.
Because the populations of ALL other ethnic groups increase over time.
They never decrease unless there's a major famine or massive war (or an ethnic cleansing!).

So this statistic alone should be enough to silence all those who still deny many millions died in WW2. Because if any other ethnic group had a global population of 15 million in 1939 they would ordinarily be about 25-30 million in this era. So how come the Jewish population shrunk so drastically? The answer again is very simple and can be summed up in two words: The Holocaust.


message 2: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 23, 2016 08:03AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments MYTH #2: "The reason the real story about the Holocaust cannot ever be proven is because it is taboo. If you publicly want to discuss the numbers, depending on what country you are in, you may be arrested. Why? If this is so well documented then why not just prove it to the people to shut up the deniers. Why forbid them to show their version of facts?"

It's not a taboo to investigate the Holocaust at all. You can study it until your heart is content. If you go to Europe right now and study historical records of the Holocaust and inspect the IDs the Nazis kept as documentation of Jewish deaths you could literally spend the rest of your life studying these details and nobody anywhere will stop you - in fact you will be greatly encouraged to do so. However, your confusion of the legality issue merely lies in the fact that in certain countries in Europe like German, Austria, Poland and a few others it is illegal to promote any ideology that says the Holocaust did not happen as per the history books. It is literally written into those countries law books and is in recognition of the fact that it is the worst crime in living memory and also that there is still a tremendous amount of anti-Semites and Neo Nazis in Europe today and these countries are worried history could repeat itself. But this is in no way related to your (incorrect) assumption that this means a cover-up of the real history of the Holocaust is occurring. The proof of the Holocaust numbers is there for all to see in plain sight. Like I said, if you arrive in Europe now and say to any official in any European nation "Hi, my name is XXXXX and I would like to study the Holocuast indepth and inspect the records of those who died and all the evidence of the Holocaust," they will welcome you with open arms.

However, if some Holocaust denying, anti-Semitic, Nazi sympathizing, Hitler apologist arrives in say Germany or Austria to give a speech about why the Holocaust is greatly exaggerated or says he wants to hold a public debate about whether this historical event actually occurred, he will either be turned away at the airport or imprisoned.
Now, that's all fair enough in my books and is not unusual. For example, if I was an author and speaker who has repeatedly said African-Americans were never slaves in America's history and millions did not die in the slave trade and it's all simply propaganda, do you think US authorities would let me into the country? And would I as a foreigner be allowed to stay in the country and give such hate-filled speeches about black descendants and US citizens? No.


MYTH #3: "We now know media and governments lie and that all wars are made by propaganda. They lied a lot about Hitler, even silly things (he was a sexual pervert, he had only one testicle, he had flatulence etc). If they lied or exaggerated about such things, how can we be assured the rest of the things they told us about World War Two are absolutely true?"

Wars always have vast amounts of propaganda on all sides and certain things said about Hitler are not remotely related to how many Jews died in the Holocaust. That's like saying just because there were racist cartoons about the Japanese in WW2 that compared the Japanese to animals and even accused them of bestiality, proves they didn't kill millions throughout the Pacific.


MYTH #4: "Three million deceased Jews in concentration camps is still a huge number. If you consider that the relentless killing didn't start until some time into World War II, it would need an extraordinary effort for a single country which was already struggling on a two-front war. And the camps did not have the necessary infrastructure to kill and remove the bodies of millions of people. Germany did not have the logistics to pull off such a crime."

The Nazi regime's orchestration concerning the concentration camps was incredibly efficient (and again, all fully documented mostly by the Nazis themselves). There were 8 main camps. The highest death toll of Jewish prisoners/victims was Auschwitz at 1 million. Others had about 300,000-500,000 deaths in each. Each camp definitely had the necessary infrastructure to easily and systematically create such a death toll over the entire war. The camps were all built with railway tracks right outside the gates and German (non-Jewish) witnesses report multiple trains per day would leave and depart at each camp (sometimes even hourly trains). These trains were either constantly delivering new victims/prisoners or else bringing in supplies. And this amount of large trains continued from near the start of the war until the very end.

Now you say "it would need an extraordinary effort for a single country which was already struggling on a two-front war" which reveals another common misunderstanding. Germany should not be viewed as just a country at this point. Nazi Germany cannot be compared to modern day Germany or any other single country for that matter, because the fact is Germany had become the Third Reich by that stage. Now just think about what the Third Reich was: one of the most powerful empires in history. It had looted the riches of half of Europe (after having invaded or over-run powerhouse nations like France, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Greece, Poland etc), it was secretly receiving enormous funds from the Vatican Bank (yes, the Catholics were aware of Hitler's intent toward the Jews) and also some Swiss banks were supporting the Third Reich too. Plus, the Nazis had fascist allies like Mussolini’s Italy and even Japan from afar.

So a far better or more appropriate question to ask yourself is: "Could a regime that controls almost all of Europe's resources and wealth kill a few million defenseless Jews who nobody cared about or would defend?" The obvious answer, if you stop to think about it, is: "Yes! Relatively effortlessly!"

Even during the extremely small-scale Balkan/Bosnian wars in the 1990s in Yugoslavia there were mass graves found of ethnic killings in the tens of thousands and I think well over 100,000 were killed in those (comparatively) tiny wars in which most of it was similarly about ethnic cleansings.


MYTH #5: "Most of the Jews died in the camps due to bad working conditions, famine and diseases, which doesn't make the picture more pretty than if they were just gassed, but it does undermine the supposed history of the Holocaust."

Um, no, it does not undermine the history of the Holocaust at all. The gassings were simply one part of the deaths in the camps (again, that's another very common misunderstanding to think the 3 million who died within the camps were ALL the result of gassings). Remember, the concentration camps were not only designed to exterminate Jews. They were also the hub of the Third Reich in many ways as the Jews were a cheap or free labor force performing many duties day and night including manufacturing and all sorts of work duties that helped the regime. Nazi scientists were also conducting wide-scale medical experimentation on hundreds of thousands of Jews (horrific experiments which killed most experimentees). Starting to get the picture of how so many could have died within these camps?

Now when it comes to records of gas chambers themselves, all mainstream historians agree they are 100% verified and that a large percentage of those who died in the camps died from the result of either carbon monoxide or Zyklon B gasses. This is a good starting place for the historical facts surrounding the gas chambers: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...

Besides the assessment of historians, there have also been numerous independent scientific reports published on the gas chambers over the years, including the following examples:

Jean-Claude Pressac (1944 - 2003) - a French pharmacist who was formerly a Holocaust denier, undertook a forensic examination of the Auschwitz gas chambers in 1979. The result? He was shocked by the overwhelming evidence. In 1989 he published a book that confirmed the established view that the gas chambers were functional, killing between 631,000 and 711,000 prisoners (at Auschwitz alone).

Deborah E. Lipstadt's book Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory won the UK libel case 'Irving v Penguin Books and Lipstadt'. The case contained forensic examination for use of gas chambers.

One of the common claims of Holocaust Deniers involves the reconstructed gas chambers built by the Polish government after WW2 at Auschwitz as a memorial to the victims. The Nazis destroyed the original gas chambers where mass murders were committed, and the simulated gas chambers at Auschwitz have never had Zyklon-B deployed in them. Deniers frequently exploit such confusion. At Majdanek, which the Nazis did not successfully destroy, evidence of the use of Zyklon-B appears in the bluing of the concrete. Hydrogen cyanide reacts with iron compounds to form the pigment Prussian blue.


MYTH #6: "You cannot deny that Jews have a huge influence in the banking/financial world and in the media, can you?"

No I wouldn't deny Jews have a big influence in the banking/financial world and media. But I'll go much further than that. They have made an enormous mark in virtually every field known to man: from mathematics to publishing to science to medicine to economics to human rights campaigning to engineering. When you consider there are less than 13 million Jews worldwide (about half of the population of Mexico City) they are an incredible people and it's not just in this era they are world leaders - they always have been (and all that despite never having a country of their own until the mid-20th Century and being up against a mountain of anti-Semitism in every other country they have resided in). They have always been a people throughout history who have largely sculpted the world we live in. It's also hard to see how women's rights or the legal equality of races or child welfare or animal rights or environmental protection would have occurred when they did without the Jews (research history and you'll see they were even at the forefront of these movements). Even many or most of the Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish. And all this success or achievement or service to humanity or whatever you want to call it is partly responsible for the hatred and anti-Semitism as people cannot believe that any one small minority can achieve so much in virtually every field without they being corrupt or scoundrels. I mean can you imagine if say half the world's most successful people on earth came from some little known state in Brazil? That would be the equivalent. And after a while, the rest of the world would get jealous and say things like "those people from Mato Grosso do Sul are liars and cheats and are secretly controlling the world"...So besides the religious thing where anti-Semitic viewpoints thrive within fundamentalist, Far Right or extremist versions of Christianity and Islam, the success of these brilliant and community-orientated people is one of the biggest reasons the Jews have historically been hated and also partly why the Nazis wanted them gone.

Now the whole banking field is another area I have studied a lot and actually co-written a book on. And yes there are many leading Jews in this field but like I point out there are leading Jews in almost every field, so what. The Rothschilds are just one of dozens of banking clans some are Jewish but many are not Jewish. The Rothschilds are people I don't like, but the way they are held up to represent Jews in general is a joke. There are good and bad people in all races. The fact that there are many Jews in the banking sector is being used by Neo Nazis and anti-Semites in general to try to sway the uneducated to believe the Jews are the problem instead of banking assholes in general.


message 3: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 21, 2016 10:41PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments MYTH #7: "I am pretty sure Hitler had racist ideas and saw Jewry were his main enemy. However, his main objective was NOT to wipe out the Jews from the face of the Earth. If they had departed from Germany it would have been reasonable for him."

If you read Mein Kampf and listen to Hitler's speeches, getting rid of the Jews was a huge part of his agenda. Nazi Germany's desire for "racial purity" was very real and the concepts of the Final Solution are well documented. But did Hitler also have world domination and other wider goals not related to the Jews? Yes definitely, but that doesn't change the fact that his expressed desire to get rid of these people and expel them not only from Germany but from the ever-expanding Third Reich is all on-the-record and official. No getting around that, buddy.


MYTH #8: "I have seen various figures about the numbers of Jews who died in Europe. It's hard to know which statistic to believe! There is almost no unbiased data about this subject!"

The death tolls are estimates and cannot ever be 100% precise. Just like nobody can estimate how many exactly died in the Vietnam War (some say 3M Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans, others say 3.2M Vietnamese and 60,000 Americans). There will always be slight variances in death tolls of wars spanning entire continents, especially if you go as far back as WW2. But these slight variances are not remotely related to Holocaust Deniers who are trying to revise things (to support their hate-filled agendas) by claiming 90-100% of the Holocaust deaths (e.g. 5-6 million Jews) are some fairytale concocted years after the war. Rest assured the only books anywhere that talk about the tiny death toll numbers Holocaust Deniers believe in (i.e. thousands or hundreds of thousands instead of millions) are either Holocaust denying books written by the likes of David Irving and other anti-Semitic "historians" or Neo Nazi groups. There are no mainstream history books ever published now or anytime since 1945 that ever mention a death toll that isn't in the millions for the Holocaust. Period.

If you go beyond the death tolls from the concentration camps, and study the open-air massacres in places like Lithuana and Poland (which tens or even hundreds of non-Jews have verified as being witnesses of) you will see millions were killed in these events alone. So to believe in Holocaust denialism you have to ignore perhaps 1 million different witnesses and survivors (from Jews to Gypsies to Germans to Poles to children etc, etc) who all verify the Holocaust. These independent testimonies, as well as the Nazi's documentation of concentration camp detainees who died, all add up to the confirmed estimates of the Holocaust death toll (universally agreed upon by ALL mainstream historians as being 6 million Jews give or take a few hundred thousand either way, could be slightly more could be slightly less).

It is potentially the most well-documented crime of the 20th Century but remember to religious extremists, Nazi apologists or other anti-Semites it would never matter how much evidence you put in front of them they would always deny the Holocaust as to admit the event occurred is to stop believing the Jews are inferior to them.


For further proof, this site uses abundant evidence to successfully debunk all other arguments Holocaust Deniers raise: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaus...


Lastly, I'd like to add the motto of Holocaust Survivors: NEVER FORGET.

Peace,
James Morcan


P.S. For anyone else who stands against Holocaust denialism, feel free to add your voice.


message 4: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Lovil (JD_Lovil) | 85 comments I reserve my scorn for those who deserve it. Those who seek to dishonor the Jewish people by belittling their trials are ignorant and short-sighted. They also are belittling themselves without knowing it.
The Jews, and the other tribes of the Israelites, originated in the Sumer-Akkadian Empire nearly 2000 b.c.. They were mixed Sumerian and Akkadian blood, kin to the Magyars of the Hungarian/Romanian area, and the Celts before the migration to the Isles. In other words, it is very unlikely that any living person exists that are not related to the Jewish people in several different ways.
They are just people, but they are people who have honored their covenants, and never forgot who they are, through some of the most hellish events in history. They deserve our friendship. They deserve our respect. They deserve to know that they are not alone.


message 5: by Nik (new) - added it

Nik Krasno | 128 comments Very loud and clear message, James! I can understand your frustration from encountering deniers and anti-Semites in general, some of whom go as far as to lament that hitler didn't finish his job.

I'm originally from Kiev (Kyiv) where in Babi Yar alone just within a 2 days massacre on September 29-30, 1941 a little less than 34,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis...
Likewise dozens of thousands were executed in Odessa in just a few days in 1941 and so much more in other cities in Ukraine alone.
I've also accompanied on one occasion Jewish family seeking their roots and visited small Ukrainian towns in the West of Ukraine, where local Ukrainians told us the entire village or town was Jewish before the WWII and all of its inhabitants were executed by the nazis, so no Jews live there nowadays.

I've visited Auschwitz-Birkenau museum in Poland and was simply aghast by the magnitude of the place and the dilligence with which nazis exterminated people there....
On a bit more positive side - I was surprised to see how many people from all over the world, who have no connection to Jews, visit this place and learn about the heinous crime commited there. So there is a hope that it would never be forgotten indeed...


message 6: by Lance, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lance Morcan | 1952 comments Nik wrote: "Very loud and clear message, James! I can understand your frustration from encountering deniers and anti-Semites in general, some of whom go as far as to lament that hitler didn't finish his job.

..."


I can only echo your sentiments Nik.


message 7: by Nik (new) - added it

Nik Krasno | 128 comments Thanks, Lance!


message 8: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 22, 2016 05:01AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Have also included this rant on my book/film blog site (which includes photographic evidence of the Holocaust): http://morcanbooksandfilms.com/2016/0...

Feel free to spread the word by sharing the blog post on other social media.

Thanks,
James


message 9: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 22, 2016 03:53AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars


message 10: by Beth (new) - added it

Beth (bcopanos) | 57 comments I don't understand how anyone could think the holocaust wasn't real!?! There are still people alive that have their numbers tattooed on their arms!!!


message 11: by Java (new)

Java Davis (JavaDavis) | 1 comments I want to express my appreciation for everyone's stand against Holocaust deniers. 3/4 of my family at that time were killed by Nazis and another segment were murdered by the White Russians. I bless all of you.
-- Java Davis


message 12: by Beth (new) - added it

Beth (bcopanos) | 57 comments My condolences Java.


message 13: by Carmel (new)

Carmel Bell | 2 comments Holocaust deniers are foolish people that do not have the common deductive sense to realise that they are alive because of the holocaust. Much of the medical research we have today is based on experiments done in the camps, and the earth is not yet unsustainable because of the unwitting sacrifice made by these millions of people, not just the jews. Blacks, gypsies, and anyone else who didn't look good in a suit. Indiscriminate Germans would kill just about anyone. Deniers of such an event are indescribable fools.


message 14: by Wordwizard (new)

Wordwizard (WordwizardW) Something I've never understood is why people bother to quibble about the numbers. If "only" 4 million, or 3 million, or 1 million Jews were exterminated, would it be less of an atrocity? What number would you pick that's small enough to say that a genocide didn't count?

Another comment about Myth #6 that I'm sure you, James, already know, is that Jews were forbidden to have most ordinary occupations by Christian authorities. They were allowed/encouraged to go into banking, because Christians were not allowed to charge fellow-Christians interest, but SOMEONE had to make loans. They were also allowed/encouraged to slaughter animals, another distasteful job. Then they were called names because they did the only (pejorative) jobs they could.


Harry Whitewolf | 1715 comments James, good on ya for posting that essay.

Postmodernism and Holocaust Denial is a good short read about the issues surrounding Holocaust Denial and the David Irving Case.


message 16: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Wordwizard wrote: "Another comment about Myth #6 that I'm sure you, James, already know, is that Jews were forbidden to have most ordinary occupations by Christian authorities. They were allowed/encouraged to go into banking, because Christians were not allowed to charge fellow-Christians interest, but SOMEONE had to make loans. They were also allowed/encouraged to slaughter animals, another distasteful job. Then they were called names because they did the only (pejorative) jobs they could. ..."

I didn't know all of those points, only some of them, so thanks for the info.


Cats of Ulthar (HauntedReadingRoom) | 3 comments 11 million thank-yous for writing and posting this!!! Santayana wrote, "Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it" (haven't we seen evidence of this over and over throughout the 20th century and into the 21st?) If the deniers succeed, what will stop a repeat of the Holocaust? Like frogs in a boiling pot, humans can become conditioned to accept and overlook, even to applaud, atrocities. [The excuse, "We didn't know!!" Is not valid.]

On a strictly personal note, my parent (an American GI M.P. in WWII Europe) instructed me on the Holocaust, as a child and adolescent, in the 1950's and 1960's. We perused Holocaust and concentration camp accounts in University Libraries. I've never forgotten; I never will forget. Would that everyone else on Earth also acknowledge, grieve, and never forget.


message 18: by Dov (new)

Dov Ivry | 43 comments In a related topic the Turks still have still not admitted committing genocide against the Armenians in WWI. This was done in full view and reported by journalists on the scene. Much of it was accomplished by force-marching women, children, and old men through the country until they dropped.

To this day the Turks have paid no compensation of any kind of the Armenian people.

The Allies made a colossal mistake after the war by not punishing the perpetrators.

This genocide was not inspired by Islam, rather Social Darwinism

Darwin himself was a racist and he mixed his racism in with his science. He said this in "The Descent Of Man."

‘The careless, squalid, unaspiring Irishman multiplies like rabbits: the frugal, foreseeing, self-respecting, ambitious Scot, stern in his morality, spiritual in his faith, sagacious and disciplined in his intelligence, passes his best years in struggle and in celibacy, marries late, and leaves few behind him. Given a land originally people by a thousand Saxons and a thousand Celts -- and in a dozen generations five-sixths of the population would be Celts, but five-sixths of the property, of the power, of the intellect, would belong to the one-sixth of Saxons that remained. In the eternal struggle for existence, it would be the inferior and less favored race that had prevailed -- and prevailed by virtue not of its qualities but of its faults.’

The Social Darwinists took the position that you do the world a favor by getting rid of "inferior" races. The Young Turks were entirely committed to that idea. In the chaos of war they got their chance.

This is from Halil Berktay. "They had arrived at the crystallization of their own version of Social Darwinistic, violent, anxious, and, therefore, malicious and malevolent … nationalism. That is to say, it was their ideology that was telling them we cannot have a patriotic self defense unless and until we have an Anatolia that has been comprehensively Turkified. That is to say, they had acquired a nationalist ideological perspective of regarding all non-Turks as suspect, hostile elements. It was this ideology that led to … (the) orders. It was this ideology, in turn, which lead to the horrors of 1915... it was the Ottoman state versus all Armenians. It was state declaring war on its subjects.”

The fact that the perpetrators were not punished was not lost on Hitler. He asked, "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"

This is from Hans-Gunter Zmarzlik: “‘Struggle for existence,’ ‘weeding-out,’ ‘selection’ are terms that owe their origins to Darwinism; and this is by no means accidental: anyone who spends a little time browsing in Mein Kampf, the book in which Hitler set forth his political views and philosophy, will at once perceive how strongly a social Darwinist form of monism helped to determine the intellectual horizon of the National Socialist leadership. And the historian must add that this vulgarized Darwinism is among the few ideological elements which Hitler did not manipulate arbitrarily to suit his power political tactics but which instead governed his mental attitudes throughout his career as a politician and demagogue.”

By the way it would not have helped the Jews if they had been considered "Aryan" by the pseudo-scientists. The Gypsies were actually the most Aryan people in Europe by the lights of this pseudo-science. That didn't help them one bit. (In reality there are no such races as "Aryans" and "Semites." These are terms for language groups.)

The following is in response to J.D. The Jews originated in India. We are Hurrians related to the Hittites. When Abraham talked to the Hittites he used the expression for the high god of the Hurrians "El Qone Aretz," which is attested to in Hittite documents. I've got this in one of my books, "Moses Was a Black African & The Jews Came Out Of India."


message 19: by C. (last edited Feb 22, 2016 06:33AM) (new)

C. Great post James! IMO only imbeciles could deny the Holocaust!

The same type of fools who deny that the American government committed genocide against the American Indians, and had a eugenics program, and the UK's deportation of their poor children as reported by the social worker Margaret Humphreys in her book "Empty Cradles", and all the other atrocities committed by governments around the world.

Such blind ignorance is exactly how such things were 'ALLOWED' to happen and continue to this very day!


message 20: by Martin (new)

Martin Hill (MartinRoyHill) | 123 comments Well said, James. Bravo.

To what C wrote, I would add those in the US today who maintain that black slavery in the South was not abusive or that the reason for Southern secession was states' rights not slavery (though every secession legislation passed by the Confederate states cited slavery as the reason for leaving the Union).

Such deniers are simply racists and bigots. Unfortunately, in the US they seem to have wrested control of the Republican Party from more reasonable and moderate conservatives.


message 21: by Sash (new)

Sash Chiesa  | 26 comments Great job, James! Thanks for this. Through this kind of Holocaust denial, those people are just being insensitive to the extremes, and that only to keep feeding their own prejudices and hatred. I have personally known a few Holocaust-deniers, who just keep claiming it as Jewish propaganda. In fact, being a denier is not just insensitive but also cruel, inhumane really. Another pathetic brigade of haters - Hitler left some of the Jews behind to let us know, why he was killing them. What sort of disgusting notions some of us have! Why all of us don't acknowledge Holocaust, be shocked by it, be collectively ashamed of it? We should never forget Holocaust, let alone denying it. Thanks a lot once again, James.


message 22: by Wordwizard (new)

Wordwizard (WordwizardW) Sash: "be collectively ashamed of it?"
Why be ashamed of something you had nothing to do with, that (perhaps) happened before you were born?
I'm not ashamed that my distant relatives were slaughtered. I didn't stand by, silent.


message 23: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Norris | 485 comments The killing of Jews did not end in 1945...To this day, they are being persecuted. For instance, Palestinian children shows are teaching children to kill Jews...watch this short clip...I suspect the subtitles are correct:

https://vimeo.com/94676269

I think I can rightfully assume that Jews are and have been the most persecuted of all religions in Western history.


message 24: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Lovil (JD_Lovil) | 85 comments Wordwizard wrote: "Sash: "be collectively ashamed of it?"
Why be ashamed of something you had nothing to do with, that (perhaps) happened before you were born?
I'm not ashamed that my distant relatives were slaughter..."

I have to agree about no shame for us. It is a good object lesson to stand against the next atrocity. We don't need a sense of shame, just a sense of honor.


message 25: by Donna (new)

Donna Haworth | 42 comments Excellent post James. Unfortunately there seems to be a certain mentality of people in this world who are deniers period, of all the atrocities regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary. Being a lover of truth myself I have never been able to understand that mentality. It is always degrading to the people whose truths they many times manage to invalidate to others. It is a very sad, frustrating and immense social injustice.


message 26: by Wordwizard (new)

Wordwizard (WordwizardW) I got a notification that Lisa had left a comment and I wouldn't be informed further until I looked at this discussion again, but the link said it couldn't be found. I had to figure out another way to look at the discussion. There's a bug in the system.


message 27: by Patrick (new) - added it

Patrick (VolMann) | 14 comments Lisa wrote: "The killing of Jews did not end in 1945...To this day, they are being persecuted. For instance, Palestinian children shows are teaching children to kill Jews...watch this short clip...I suspect the..."

PBS Palestinian style....so very scary for the innocents.


message 28: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 23, 2016 07:51AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Guys, allow me to refer you to an amazing survivor. It's Goodreads author Peter Kubicek who I think also became a member of this group recently as well.

Peter is an 84 year-old Holocaust Survivor and was just 14 years old when imprisoned in Germany's Sachsenhausen concentration camp during WW2. (Welcome Peter and feel free to post in this thread yourself).

Peter Kubicek

For anyone interested in reading about Peter's true Holocaust account I recommend reading the book he has authored called Memories of Evil: Recalling a World War II Childhood.

Here is the synopsis for Memories of Evil:

My book is subtitled, "Recalling a World War II Childhood" and is a memoir of my peaceful childhood in Czechoslovakia; how my life was radically changed by the Holocaust, and my experiences in surviving six German concentration camps from the age of 14 - 15.

At my current age of 83, I was motivated by the fact that we Holocaust survivors are a dying breed: within a couple of decades we will be extinct. It is to me of utmost importance that the testimony we leave behind be authentic, truthful, and historically accurate.

It is my hope that this modest memoir fulfills my motive for writing it.

Memories of Evil Recalling a World War II Childhood by Peter Kubicek


message 29: by Wordwizard (new)

Wordwizard (WordwizardW) I just checked, and unfortunately, MEMORIES OF EVIL: Recalling a World War II Childhood, by Peter Kubicek, is not in the New York Public Library. It would be nice if it were…


message 30: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Wordwizard wrote: "I just checked, and unfortunately, MEMORIES OF EVIL: Recalling a World War II Childhood, by Peter Kubicek, is not in the New York Public Library. It would be nice if it were…"

Of all places, you'd think the New York Public Library should have it on their shelves!


message 31: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 23, 2016 07:43AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments On page 223 of Dear General: Eisenhower's Wartime Letters to Marshall, General Dwight D. Eisenhower (who later became US President) wrote the following about the Holocaust:

"The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit [to Gotha] deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda'."


message 32: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 25, 2016 01:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments In 1922, Hitler told a journalist that:

“Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example - as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews."
Adolf Hitler, 1922. (Josef Hell, "Aufzeichnung," 1922, ZS 640, p. 5, Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte. http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/archiv/zs/... Translation at Nizkor)


message 33: by A (new)

A Team | 29 comments ... and of course, the suppressed version of the Holocaust : http://one-evil.org/content/acts_vati...


message 34: by Todd (last edited Feb 25, 2016 08:01AM) (new)

Todd | 1 comments James:

Excellent post. I always find it horrifyingly flabbergasting that anyone can deny that The Holocaust happened. We have pictures, artifacts, documentation and the testimony of survivors that prove that his horror happened. We can travel to the locations and see first hand the mountainous piles of clothes, eyeglasses and other cast offs from the victims that suffered at the hands of these human monsters. Denying it ever happened takes a blindness that I just don't understand.


message 35: by Donna (new)

Donna Haworth | 42 comments Praise to the hero's who pull back the veils so we may all know the truth.


message 36: by Ila (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ila (sewcraftyme) | 37 comments James, this is one of the best articles on the atrocity I've ever read.

I remember someone telling me how the Jewish people were in control of all finances, the banks, and if you were not Jewish you could never succeed financially in the USA. How they were responsible for everything costing 2.99 instead of 3.00, the psychological thinking that went into that. I was not even a teenager when this, and many other outlandish claims, was told to me and I remember thinking how stupid and foolish it was.

I also remember thinking how awful it must be to live that way, with all that hate inside you, always blaming the Jews for all that went wrong with your life. I almost felt sorry for the person who told me all this.

No surprise, he was a fan of Adolf Hitler. And he believed that the Holocaust didn't happen because if there were that many people being killed all that had to happen was for them to turn on their guards and take them over to stop the killing. What hogwash.


As for the deniers, the line, 'there are none so blind as those who will not see' sums them up to me.

Excellent article and I'll be reading it again and again.

I know, through the internet, a few women who have numbers on their wrists from their time in camps. One had some experimentation done on her, which prevented her from ever having children.

I simply can't fathom how a person can deny this ever happened.

I asked my daughter, who is 22, if she was taught anything about the Holocaust in school and she wasn't. That's a real shame.


message 37: by Christina (new)

Christina Lavers | 16 comments I think that this is a very important topic. One of the reasons I think it is important is that in the murky water of underground information it can be so easy to get lost in the pursuit of truth. I agree that the holocaust happened and that it absolutely needs to be acknowledged and remembered so that we never repeat such a horrific period in history. Another reason why it is important is that the event naturally created a deep wound in the psyche of the Jewish people. When such horrific events are minimised we throw salt on the wounds of our brothers and sisters. However at the same time there are some Israeli policies that I think do bear criticism... however, because of anti-Semitic beliefs, it becomes easy to dismiss those criticisms under the blanket of anti-Semitism, and this makes it difficult to have a rational discussion about topics that really should be addressed.


Irene (RenieMarie) | 65 comments James Morcan wrote: "This essay/post is the result of the disturbing trend within some sectors of society to deny, diminish or otherwise undermine the historicity of the Holocaust. Besides the obvious groups like Neo-N..."

HOLY WOW!!!!! I remember when you told me about that racist poem David Irving wrote and it was so disgusting/small minded/evil and ridiculous I didn't believe he'd written it. I thought someone online must have written it & attributed the poem to him. Now that I actually SEE and HEAR Irving not only admitting to being the poems author but reciting it in the interview you linked I have to apologize to you for not thinking a so-called academic, a published and established historian could have actually been so vile! What is wrong with people?! I don't understand how some people can be so successful and (before all the halocaust denial he was a celebrated author right?) smart in some ways and then have this ridiculously stupid and absolutely insane/evil side! Gross! Shame on you Irving! You make me sick!


Irene (RenieMarie) | 65 comments James Morcan wrote: "This essay/post is the result of the disturbing trend within some sectors of society to deny, diminish or otherwise undermine the historicity of the Holocaust. Besides the obvious groups like Neo-N..."

OMG James I literally cannot watch the video of Irving's interview in its entirety. He is so awful that I am like embarrassed for him! What must his poor family think?? Is he insane!?! Wow. What a pig. I feel so silly that I included his videos in my armchair truth searching. Ewe, totally despicable human being! On another topic, did you read my post on the possibility of the Jews being used and slaughtered in an effort to create Israel?


message 40: by James, Group Founder (last edited Feb 26, 2016 07:02AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Guys,

Issues like the Middle East conflict, Israelis vs. Palestinians etc, as well as Zionism (which is nationalism relating to the state of Israel and is loosely the equivalent of say the American patriotism movement and is not solely Jewish as there are many non-Jewish Israelis and of course there are many non-Israeli Jews), are often brought into the subject of the Holocaust - and wrongly so.
Those issues are not related at all to an event that happened before (modern) Israel was formed.
Bringing up wrongdoings of the modern Israeli government is about as irrelevant to the Holocaust as mentioning the warmongering decisions of recent US administrations in relation to the slaughter or genocide of Native Americans when the US was first colonized.

My whole point is approximately 6,000,000 Jews died in the Holocaust and many people simply cannot ever accept this and keep bringing up red herring after red herring to avoid finally admitting "YES it happened exactly as the history books say, end of story." Which is the only correct response to this historically and scientifically(forensically)-proven event.

Now let me comment briefly (and I'll only comment on this once in this thread as like I say it's yet another distraction away from the topic of the death-toll being precise) on the conspiracy theory that some powerful Jews created the Holocaust for their own means:

The idea that a handful of Jewish bankers pulled the strings of fascist politicians in the 1920s and 1930s and that was the entire reason Hitler and Co took over Germany and lead to the formation of the entire Nazi regime (and one of the most powerful empires in history I might add) to lead to the Holocaust in order to create Israel is a highly-speculative, totally unproven and far-fetched connecting-the-dots-style conspiracy theory often used by some to shift blame away from the Nazis or white people or Catholics/Christians and instead blame Jews for the Holocaust (e.g. "the Rothschilds created it all and therefore the Jews are still responsible for the Holocaust and it wasn't the Germans or fascists faults"...). I'm not saying that all people who promote this theory or believe in it are anti-Semites - there are some who fall for it and the anti-Semites can be very crafty and convincing at times especially as most 9-5 workers in this world do not have time to extensively research history and fact-check obscure theories and alternative versions of history.
In truth, all that supports this theory are certain pieces of (circumstantial) evidence and nothing remotely resembling proof or a smoking gun. For example, there was strong financing before the war going from the likes of the Rothschilds and other Jewish/Zionist banking elites to the new German government and German/Swiss banks who were supporters of the Nazi regime. And yes, there were banking elites pushing for a Zionist nation (a modern version of the ancient Israel) long before WWII. But some obscure researchers are confusing those scattered pieces of evidence with meaning any tiny group of bankers could pull the strings of the extremely powerful Nazi regime (so powerful it took the might of the Soviets, British AND Americans and all their allies around the world to finally bring it down by a whisker) and have a crystal ball to predict or know with absolute certainty that this fascist regime would not only eventually lose the war but carry out the Holocaust atrocity but somehow leave enough Jews alive (i.e. kill a lot but not too many, or kill 6 million but not 9 million...) to be able to form the nation of Israel after WW2...
Go figure!

There was also MASSIVE funding toward the Nazis from the Vatican Bank. But how come nobody promotes an equivalent conspiracy theory to say the Catholics bankrolled the Nazis to create the Holocaust for their own devious purposes or to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth in some remnant of the Biblical era??? I would say you could find as much "evidence" to support that theory if that's what you believe in.

I have also taken the time to fact-check a lot of the quotes that are being attributed to the Rothschilds online (including those that are being used as "evidence" to support this theory) and 90% of those quotes have been made up, often in the Muslim world as well as by Neo-Nazis or Nazi apologists. These have been proven to be fabricated quotes to try to paint a nasty picture of Zionism ruling the planet. I'm definitely not a supporter of the Rothschilds (especially as they manipulate the financial markets), or any of the banking elite for that matter, but just because they are Jewish does not mean they are for the Jews either. I personally think the Rothschilds are elitists first and foremost and their primary religion is money not Judaism. An analogy would be technically-speaking or officially-speaking George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Tony Blair are all Christians or Catholics, so by the same token we should assume everything they do represents their religion? Likewise, does everything these 3 individuals do represent white or black people??

I would also add that there are always certain races or those of certain religions that dominate various fields. So yes, there are many Jewish banking clans in high finance. But if you stop to think about it, why does this race get singled out only? For example, I would say 95% of the global elite (whether they be World Bank execs, Bilderbergers, senior CIA staff, British Royals, etc) are white people and Christian. And maybe 60% or so of them are American. So why aren't the same people that single out the Jews and state or imply the idiotic theory that "the Jews control the world" instead saying "white people run the Earth and the world we live in is the result of white supremacy and there is a war against non-white races" or that "Christianity is trying to destroy all other religions" or that "America is the reason for all the world's problems and America is running the entire world"?
The answer can once again be summarized in two words: A-N-T-I S-E-M-I-T-I-S-M.

As a white person, if I were one of the major banking elite people would say "James Morcan is a bankster", BUT if I were Jewish they would be saying "JM is a F*$^@% Jew bastard and a Zionist motherf#&$*(^$!"
Why is that? You know the answer!

Anyway, I really hope this thread doesn't devolve into a whole debate on Rothschild theories and would ask if everyone would please keep it on the actual topic (which is a very important topic): That Holocaust Deniers have zero evidence to support their arguments that this atrocity did not happen or was greatly exaggerated.


message 41: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Todd wrote: "Excellent post. I always find it horrifyingly flabbergasting that anyone can deny that The Holocaust happened. We have pictures, artifacts, documentation and the testimony of survivors that prove that his horror happened. We can travel to the locations and see first hand the mountainous piles of clothes, eyeglasses and other cast offs from the victims that suffered at the hands of these human monsters. Denying it ever happened takes a blindness that I just don't understand. ..."

Thanks Todd - agree with all you say and it really does seem as if no matter how much overwhelming evidence is stacked up before anti-Semites or the gullible, they will continue believing the Holocaust is not a factual historical event.


message 42: by Christina (new)

Christina Lavers | 16 comments I know there is a lot of very real anti-Semitism, and this is something that really puts me off in terms of conspiracy discussions...I also see a lot of ugly talk about Zionists and Jewish bankers...which for me is an easy red flag to stop reading. I totally agree with what you have said...however I do still think that my point is valid. As a rule I do not engage in these types of discussions. I am only speaking from personal experience. I found that anyone on my FB page criticized what Israel was doing in terms of Palestine, my friends of Jewish heritage were upset and the discussion was labelled anti-Semitic and absolutely shut down. As an observer I found this worrisome because while I completely understood that the comments were triggering very real cultural wounds...the blanket shut down of discussion didn't seem healthy to me. I feel the important thing is to see this as an issue that is relevant to humanity not just one ethnic group ...we really need to work to heal this collectively...and yes I agree a crucial step in this is to acknowledge the horrific reality of what occurred...what we humans are capable of.


message 43: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments I actually agree 100% Christina - Israel is a country not a race or religion and anybody should be able to criticize Israel or any other nation all they like.
My only point is Israel is totally separate to the subject of the Holocaust and verifying that the event, which pre-dates Israel, occurred.


message 44: by J.J. (new)

J.J. Mainor | 63 comments Lisa wrote: "The killing of Jews did not end in 1945...To this day, they are being persecuted. For instance, Palestinian children shows are teaching children to kill Jews...watch this short clip...I suspect the..."

Nor did the persecution start with Hitler. They've been driven from every home they've established since the beginning. Even the Russians kept them segregated in parts of Eastern Europe, prevented them from entering certain careers, and eventually instigated their own anti-Jewish campaign. Shakespeare's Shylock was a racist interpretation of the Jews and it reflected the sentiment in England at the time. As an American, I found it amazing that our country was the first in history to allow a Jew to rise to political power.

While the US is not exactly the epitome of human rights with our history, it is amazing that it took a tragedy as huge as the Holocaust for the rest of the world to become more accepting of this population


message 45: by James, Group Founder (last edited Mar 13, 2016 04:08PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments James Morcan wrote: "Guys, allow me to refer you to an amazing survivor. It's Goodreads author Peter Kubicek who I think also became a member of this group recently as well.

Peter is an 84 year-old Holocaust Survivor and was just 14 years old when imprisoned in Germany's Sachsenhausen concentration camp during WW2. ..."


Have now read and reviewed Peter's book Memories of Evil: Recalling a World War II Childhood.
Here's the review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


message 46: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Author and group member Jerry Amernic (author of the The Last Witness - a book about the last living survivor of the Holocaust in the year 2039) has produced this excellent video interviewing university students to reveal most of them know little if anything about the Holocaust and WWII!
Check out the video here: https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1000...

It does make you wonder if the main reason for Holocaust denial is actually Holocaust ignorance on the part of the masses...


message 47: by James, Group Founder (new) - rated it 5 stars

James Morcan | 7197 comments Has the world really learned the lessons of Nuremberg? http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/has-th...


message 48: by J.J. (new)

J.J. Mainor | 63 comments Just in recent history: How many people did we let die in Rwanda? How bad did the mess in the former Yugoslavia get before we got involved? How long did it take for the world to separate Sudan?

It's a strange situation because we still tell ourselves "never again," but when it comes time to put action to words, we hesitate. The mess we made in Iraq and Afghanistan has made us in the US weary of intervention. We're at a point now where we're afraid of making the situations worse, and we here have a general feeling that the military burden placed on the international community falls largely on our shoulders.


message 49: by Donna (new)

Donna Haworth | 42 comments The persecution of the Jews is an old game according to 'The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets' by Barbara Walters, "The Jews were condemned by the ancient liturgical phrase copied into the Gospel, which used to invoke the fertilizing power of a god's blood but was later interpreted as an acceptance of blood guilt: ""His blood be on us, and on our children"" (Mathew 27:23-25).
This pious forgery became the foundation for centuries of persecutions ... middle of 14th century... Cologne ... Catholic forces moved in; Jewish merchants were burned alive in their houses with their wives and children ... the great plagues of the 14th century were usually attributed to the Jews ... each wave of plague brought a wave of massacre of Jewish communities ... In Spain ... Torquemada ... expel the Jews from the country in 1490 and take their property ... In 1260 the Jewish population of Toledo (Spain) had built "" the most beautiful synagogue in Spain."" In the 15th century the Jews of Toledo were massacred and the synagogue appropriated by the church. It now bears the name of the Church of Santa Maria La Blanca."


message 50: by Lisa (last edited Mar 21, 2016 08:32AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Norris | 485 comments How about the women prisoners at Ravensbruck who were forced into prostitiution?


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