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Here's a summary of contemporary matriarchal societies, thanks to Dada's link to Mental Floss.Present Day matriarchal societies are the Musuo people in China near the Tibet border, the best known. The largest group are Minangkabau of West Sumatra, Indonesia. Women select the clan chief and pass on property to daughters. The Nagovisi live on an island west of New Guinea where women farm their land and share leadership with men. The Akan people in Ghana trace their ancestory and inherited roles to the mother. The Bribri are a small group in Costa Rica who also are organized in clans headed by women who pass on land ownership to daughters. The Garo peple in India are matrilineal but not matriarchal in that men govern and manage property, but they live with the wife’s family.
Lana Turner Garrison, “6 Modern Societies Where Women Literally Rule,” Mental_floss, 2012.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31274/...
Although matriarchies aren't necessarily eqalitarian, here's another one from my chapter on African women. The founder and the chief of the Muja (unity) village for abused women in Kenya, Rebecca Lolosoli is interviewed in the documentary Half the Sky (2012) where women sing the vagina song to greet the filmmakers, and she is seen on YouTube and in a French documentary about the village. She states, “We don’t want to be cut any more. We want to be equal. We’re not the women they used to know.” No men are allowed to live in this matriarchal village because even one man would try to take control, but sons are welcome. Lolosoli was in her 20s when she left her husband to save her life, founding the village in 1990 with 14 other women of her Samburu tribe. Many of them had been raped and were therefore considered outcasts who dishonored their families should be beaten daily. Later they were joined by other women escaping domestic violence, young girls escaping from impending marriage to a much older man, and mothers who didn’t want their daughters to suffer genital cutting. The Muja Village women make money with their bead necklaces (available online) and a campsite and cultural center for tourists, enraging jealous men in the nearest town who beat the women with clubs and tried to steal their cattle and copy their money-making schemes. Lolosoli explained that because grooms pay a dowry for their brides they consider them property. A chief from a nearby village called Lolosli a troublemaker who questions cultural beliefs that “the man is the head.” She reported that the men “see us laughing, and they don’t want us to laugh. They say we are too proud because we have money, because we always walk proudly in the road, but I say, what is wrong with that?” The women started a primary school for the village children but don’t have electricity. (The Half the Sky documentary interviews a shopkeeper who says men buy sodas and women buy milk for their children.) Lolosoli also started a network of 60 other women’s groups.
I actually never heard of these matriarchies .( I know they existed but didn't know them by name) and I really want to know more about it! I'll read some of the website you commented Dada so I can learn something more about it. -> Turned on notifications for this thread, I'd love to read more about it!
Good to hear about these places, thanks everyone!
In terms of main streams nations, Nordic countries are most egalitarian. Could people who live there comment? We need models to achieve goals of equality.Russia and China said women hold up half the sky but historically and in the present few women are in power and women do a double job. Plus there's a new push on women having babies.
The Zapatistas are another group committed to equality, as I describe in this post on FB.https://www.facebook.com/Global-Youth...
Gayle wrote: "In terms of main streams nations, Nordic countries are most egalitarian. Could people who live there comment? We need models to achieve goals of equality.Russia and China said women hold up half t..."
We have free education for all, you just have to pass the entrance exam (and fulfill the other criteria of foundational education).
We have maternity packages for all mothers with clothing and other paraphernalia for the baby. Just look it up, there's quite a bit in social media and mainstream media at this point.
We top the statistics on most uncorrupt governments and supporting organisations.
We have childcare for all (even though it's problematic in practice due to many kids in particular in the capital region).
Most women work outside of the home, the stay-at-home mom thing isn't normal (as in usual).
Paternity leave is growing in popularity, and Sweden passed some sort of law that makes it compulsory somehow. I don't know the details but fleetingly saw the news.
Work places usually pay women and men the same for similar work done, although like we've discussed in some other thread (can't recall which but Astrid pitched in on Denmark) the wage gap concerns female- versus male-dominated fields. In Finland we won't have equality in over 100 years yet, according to a BBC test. We are on top 5 or such, though.
Another aspect of women not reaching the top of organisational hierarchy is what I call patriarchy. Men still promote (mentor) men quite often, and for example in academia there are way too few women professors compared to male counterparts.
Religion is very relaxed. Our main church is the evangelical-lutheran one which is Christianity chilling out. It's refreshing compared to a lot of extreme views I read online. Increasing amounts are leaving church, and on Iceland a majority of young people have no faith at all (I'd link to the article but can't find it on BBC, their search engine is very bad).
I criticise heavily our legal system in regards to rape. When sentences are compared to other crimes committed, rape that destroys lives permanently in certain ways, isn't punished hard enough.
There's room for improvement of course, but stuff works and it's relatively clean, secure, and free. People don't stick their noses in other people's business nearly as much as I see on a daily basis done by foreigners (out of my perspective) outside of Northern Europe. The way I see it, freedom of speech and thought is implemented well, and while the refugee situation has brought out some colourful characters in regards to fundamentalism/extremism (far right basically), it's relatively mild.
Thanks for the inspiring info on Finland. What in their backgrounds encouraged your country to be so progressive?
Gayle wrote: "Thanks for the inspiring info on Finland. What in their backgrounds encouraged your country to be so progressive?"I suppose the desire after the wars was to build a whole, healthy society where people can live in peace and security, be eductated and have good jobs.
I forgot to mention that we have sort of free healthcare for all, too, and the quality is excellent, so even if you go the public rather than private route, you will be taken care of without killing the bank account.
We have fairly high taxes, but all the money is used to build stuff up.
Right, trillions go to the military in the US while children are hungry and in trashed schools.
Gayle wrote: "Right, trillions go to the military in the US while children are hungry and in trashed schools."Schools serve free lunch too :)
Gayle wrote: "What's the average tax rate? Thanks!"It depends on your income, this year income tax is as follows:
16 700€ - 25 000€: 6,50%
25 000€ - 40 800€: 17,50%
40 800€ - 72 300€: 21,50%
72 300€ - : 31,75%
Source: https://www.veronmaksajat.fi/Palkka-j...
Today, 1 EUR = 1.101575 USD.
Also there's an interesting debate after this healthcare-related article, where a Briton is complaining sensationally without having done his research properly first:
"Why is Finland’s healthcare system failing my family?"
http://www.theguardian.com/society/20...
Someone in the comments accuses Finland of being Scandinavian and socialist, of which we are neither, lol. It's more like a social democracy with elements of socialism, which would never work in practice. And we are Nordic. Scandinavia is Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, stemming in the mountainous ridge called Scandes. People need to learn geography, too.
A Chinese student I know from my research for global youth book drafts is doing graduate work for free in Finland. He said that only Norway will be able to afford this generosity next year. He also said Finns are not at all sexist, no street harassment, no treating women like they're weak. What do you think about his other observations:After living there a year he told me Fins are more individualistic than Chinese; for example, he often sees the mother and father take the child out without the other parent. If he invites someone over to have dinner, he thinks of it as a social get-together but Fins are likely to say I’ve already eaten. He has to explain he intends a social occasion as individuals eat when hungry rather than sitting down to a family dinner. Their social time to chat is in the sauna. They don’t have the concept of small talk although this is changing as the younger generation is taught small talk in English classes. A fellow student disguises herself in scarfs and hats so she won’t have to take time to greet international students who expect to be greeted if they see each other on campus. Sitting next to someone on a bus or train, even friends don’t talk and riders stand rather than sit next to a stranger.
Oh haha that was funny! :D Well, I'm here being social almost daily, and if you caught me in person, I'd use my voice to say the very same things that I write here (quite nicely, though, promise!). I know chit chat / small talk very well and so do my friends, but then our lot is interested in other cultures, we speak at least four languages each, and we were taught cosmopolitan manners since childhood. Of course I could make faux pas somewhere in Asia to mention one very different continent, but our approach is to read up on local culture rather than behave like brutes, heh.I think the whole perception your Chinese friend has is from a different part of the country (I'm in the capital region) or then he studies something where people indeed are of the quiet sort. Lots of people can be loud though, lol. Some are minimalist in vocabulary, others keep talking like there is no tomorrow. Some are dry as ash or however the saying goes, others have terrific humour. I like the more outgoing kind with social skills and manners. The woman in disguise sounds like the sort that has no manners, but it can be partly due to extreme shyness and/or general awkwardness.
We aren't taught public speaking in schools the way I know some other countries emphasise the subject, and language studies can be very theoretical indeed, so while people might know English, they aren't comfortable speaking it. In general, people prefer more quiet and less meaningless conversation than in some other places on the planet. This can be a challenge in business where small talk is necessary, but on the other hand a Finn's word usually always is true, contrary to some other cultures where one doesn't mean what one says. I can't stand the latter.
Kids and parents: it is common to do stuff with only one parent. I had no idea both would accompany the child in Chinese culture.
The food situation sounds weird. Could it be that someone isn't fond of his cuisine and don't wish to offend? I know some aren't very adventurous in regards to gastronomy. As for family dinners, we had them every weekday when growing up, but it varies a lot. We still eat together on weekends at times.
Sauna and Finns, hrm well, some like it and others go rarely. I go to relax and sweat and think my own thoughts, but I suppose some use it as a social gathering, too. Some historically significant political decisions sure have happened in the sauna :)
The bus thing was news to me. I just used a bus and all seats weren't full yet nobody was standing. Sometimes I stand if my legs are restless after a day of sitting, but maybe it is some new phenomenon he's stumbled upon? Don't know.
Street harassment is indeed non-existent here, which is wonderful. There is the occasional ogling going on, though.
I so appreciate your taking the time to educate us, so interesting! If you have traveled to Scandinavian countries, notice any trends? Did you read the book by the British author married to a Dane about everything is perfect in Scandinavia but.... I'll have to look for the title.
Finland is very similar to the Scandinavian triplet, although the language is vastly different. But in general, rules and opportunities are like ours, and the wage gap issue is mostly visible in male- vs female dominated fields. Sexism and such is rather the same, too, although compared to Sweden and Denmark we have far fewer other races represented. Many have immigrated to Sweden in particular, but during the past few years foreigners are ending up in Finland, too. I think it is good, diversity is good, and new impressions are good. Same old gets old. I don't know much details about Norway, although culturally it is similar to Denmark and Sweden. Oh, and those are monarchies but we have a president, thank goodness. I'm no royalist, seems like a dated way to rule a country. We have Nordic rules that make moving between the five countries easier still than to an EU country, but it isn't very well-known globally. Lots of commerce and agreements, sort of promoting local.
Algaea: If I may digress, I had a Finnish friend and we used to converse a lot. I really like the Finnish lifestyle from what I heard from that person and you. Besides, Finland has contributed greatly to motorsport, which I follow ardently. I've been a fan of Kimi Raikonnen for years. Oh and that friend told me Santa Clause is supposed to live in Finland and not the north-pole as the common (mis)conception is, is it tue?Again apologies for going off-topic.
Gayle wrote: "Rojava in Northern Syria is the best example I know of consciously applying feminist practices. To read about it, see my global youth book blog. https://globalyouthbook.wordpress.com......"Iceland is another model.
"What the Icelandic Know
https://medium.com/the-coffeelicious/...
An American Photographer Explores Gender Equality and Sexism in one of the Most Equal Countries on Earth.
In addition to regularly topping global charts for gender equality measures, Iceland is the only European country to have recovered fully from the 2008 financial crisis. For photographer Gabrielle Motola, these facts are intimately related. She wondered how women’s experience in a culture considered a feminist paradise compares to that of their counterparts in less supportive societies — like the United States and United Kingdom, both places she had previously lived. Through portrait sessions, Motola learned about the minds, lives, and careers of women in the world’s most equal country.
For Polarr, Emily von Hoffmann spoke with Motola about the upcoming photobook, An Equal Difference.
Emily von Hoffmann: Your project, “An Equal Difference” explores the individual gender dynamics of a country that, at the aggregate level, has the greatest gender equality in the world. You wrote in your Kickstarter that evidence for this includes Iceland’s “measures like the jailing of bankers responsible for the crash, creating an energy policy based on independent, renewable sources, maintaining a socialized child care system, and making prostitution illegal by criminalizing the buyers instead of sex workers.” So…if possible, can you react with some of the big takeaways from your two years of work? What are some of the broadest conclusions that you were able to make?"
See the link for more
Regarding Sweden's parental leave policy, the way it works is that if the father takes leave then the family qualifies for additional weeks of leave time, if only the mother takes leave then the family does not qualify for that extra time. This policy has significantly increased the number of fathers who take leave. Germany has a similar policy as well.
The book by the British journalist who moved to Denmark was called The Year of Living Danishly: My Twelve Months Unearthing the Secrets of the World's Happiest Country. I read it last year and enjoyed it very much although I wouldn't say that she says everything is perfect there. She jokes a lot about how the Danes are very serious about following rules and traditions even when they don't seem to make much sense. She laughs about getting into trouble for not recycling properly and not having the right equipment on her bicycle and having a dog who doesn't behave well, and not having a sufficiently minimalist decor esthetic, and generally failing to live up to the standards of orderly excellence expected of her.More seriously she talks about how Denmark has a domestic violence problem, although it is unclear whether there can be any accurate comparison of how it rates against other countries in that respect. It is unknown whether the higher rates of reported violence in Denmark and the Scandinavian countries more generally are because the actual rate of violence is higher or whether because Danes are more likely to report it instead of keeping it a secret.
However regardless of how they rate compare to other countries, the rates are still too high.
This is the book I was thinking about:A British critic married to a Dane, Michael Booth says of the homogeneous Nordic countries, “These societies function well for those who conform to the collective median, but they aren’t much fun for tall poppies. Schools rein in higher achievers for the sake of the less gifted; ‘elite’ is a dirty word; displays of success, ambition or wealth are frowned upon.” He ironically named his book The Almost Perfect People: Behind the Myth of Scandinavian Utopia (2014). Despite their imperfections he concluded they provide the best model of governments with happy citizens, “enviably rich, peaceful, harmonious, and progressive.” One of the key contributions to happiness is a feeling of autonomy and ability to rise up the economic ladder. Booth explained the historical background that led to this egalitarianism, mutual trust, social cohesion, economic and gender equality, rationalism, and modesty.
As agrarian populations, they learned to work together. In the 1930s, labor movements organized general strikes and boycotts and Social Democrats were elected to lead parliament for three decades before Conservatives returned to the ruling coalition in Sweden and Norway. Essential to social mobility is excellent free education and social welfare programs. Scandinavia has a hybrid economy, socialist in government provision of health care, education, child and elder care, along with capitalism, similar to Britain and Canada
Ooh, two different books! Here is a link to the book Gayle has mentioned...The Almost Nearly Perfect People: Behind the Myth of the Scandinavian Utopia.I am of Danish descent myself, and I do very much love many things about Scandinavia but I just can't with the weather.
Here in Spain the society is not that feminist (although we passed abortion in the 30s during the second republic), although some political parties are making an effort. Last year around 60 women were murdered by their (ex)husbands/(ex)boyfriends and this year they're around 14 already. The law against gender violence is supposed to be one of the best, but these last 4 years we'vw had a conservative and sexist government that decided to spend less money on this issue. Moreover, our youth is in theory feminist (surveys say that teenagers feel like women deserve the same rights as men), but a lot of teenagers have a sexist behavior (thank God it's not everyone).
Joan, could you elaborate on teens' sexist behavior? Interesting!
What's the most egalitarian group you know about? Thanks!
In some ways Alaska is egalitarian, in the frontier tradition that people are judged by what they can do more than where they come from or what they look like. But we still have some of the gender and race issues that the rest of the U. S. has.
I don't know if it's the most egalitarian group I know about (probably not) but a big part of my ancestry contains members of the Society of Friends (Quakers) and they have had female leadership since the religion was founded in the late 1600's and have had female ministers since the early 1800's. Which, for a religious group, is pretty egalitarian!
Women founded Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventists, Shakers. A belief in channeling spirit empowers women.
Scandinavians are my feminist heroes! Any Swedes who can explain the high rate of sexual assault and battery?“Sweden’s Gender-Violence Shame,” Reporter, February 22, 2013.
http://www.euronews.com/2013/02/22/sw...
Paola Battista, “Sexual Assault Affects a Third of Women in Sweden,” February 5, 2014.
http://www.west-info.eu/sexual-assaul...
In Sweden, the 2013 elections that elected a so-called feminist government and selected a feminist foreign minister Margot Wallström who advocates a “feminist security policy.” She explained that a feminist foreign policy—which was met with derision internationally, is an “analysis and also a practical tool” rather than a set of political views. It acknowledges sexist discrimination as when Wallström spoke out against Saudi sexism. Nick Cohen, “Sweden’s Feminist Foreign Minister has Dared to Tell the Truth About Saudi Arabia, The Spectator, March 2015.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/sw...
Please see Michael Moore's new documentary "Where to Invade Next," for model societies, as discussed by a film critic.Joe Schwarz
https://theintercept.com/2016/02/10/w...
"By the end of Where to Invade Next — after seeing working-class Italians with two months paid vacation, Finnish schools with no homework and the world’s best test scores, Slovenians going to college for free, and women seizing unprecedented power in Tunisia and Iceland — you may realize that the entire movie is about how other countries have dismantled the prisons in which Americans live: prison-like schools and workplaces, debtor’s prisons in order to pay for college, prisons of social roles for women, and the mental prison of refusing to face our own history.
You’ll also perceive clearly why we’ve built these prisons. It’s because the core ideology of the United States isn’t capitalism, or American exceptionalism, but something even deeper: People are bad. People are so bad that they have to be constantly controlled and threatened with punishment, and if they get a moment of freedom they’ll go crazy and ruin everything."
Gayle wrote: "Please see Michael Moore's new documentary "Where to Invade Next," for model societies, as discussed by a film critic.My summary and additional resources is on my blog about solutions:
https://greenlocalsolutions.wordpress...
A little off topic, but Forbes’ list of the 100 most powerful women of 2015: Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Melinda Gates, Janet Yellen, Mary Barra (CEO of General Motors), Christine Lagarde, Dilma Rousseff, Sheryl Sandberg, Susan Wojcicki (CEO of YouTube) and Michelle Obama.http://www.forbes.com/power-women/
Who would you add?
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork...Cherokee tribes were matrilineal:
Europeans were astonished to see that Cherokee women were the equals of men—politically, economically and theologically. “Women had autonomy and sexual freedom, could obtain divorce easily, rarely experienced rape or domestic violence, worked as producers/farmers, owned their own homes and fields, possessed a cosmology that contains female supernatural figures, and had significant political and economic power. Cherokee women’s close association with nature, as mothers and producers, served as a basis of their power within the tribe, not as a basis of oppression. Their position as ‘the other’ led to gender equivalence, not hierarchy.”
Gayle wrote: "Rojava in Northern Syria is the best example I know of consciously applying feminist practices. To read about it, see my global youth book blog. https://globalyouthbook.wordpress.com......"Some believe early human cultures were goddess worshipers and more peaceful and egalitarian than patriarchal warriors:
Gloria Steinem and others explain that many of us are uncomfortable with women leaders because we associate them with our mothers and childhood. German Neo-Freudian psychiatrist Karen Horney believed that men fear and envy women’ power as procreators. Our ancient ancestors thought birth, lactation ad menstruation were evidence of women’s magical powers. Hence, the first deities were female fertility figures. The archetype of the powerful Great Mother was described by Swiss psychoanalyst Carl Jung and a book of that title by Jung’s student Eric Neumann (1955), followed by Neumann’s The Fear of the Feminine (1994). Early civilization was goddess worshipping and more egalitarian and peaceful than warrior patriarchal culture, according to various authors. The shadow side of the mother is the witch.
Marija Gimbutas and Joseph Campbell. The Language of the Goddess. Thames and Hudson, 2001.
Leonard Shlain. The Alphabet Versus the Goddess. Penguin Books, 1999.
Riane Eisler. The Chalice and the Blade. HarperOne, 1988.
Merlin Stone. When God Was a Woman. Mariner Books, 1978.
Hi Gayle, good posts. I saw Michael Moore's Where to Invade Next recently, and while there may be a more complex reality than he can show in one movie, there's a lot of good food for thought there. I also enjoyed the ancient and Cherokee examples of feminism. Here in Alaska, the Tlingit and Haida clans are often matrilineal. And Deb Vanasses's new book Wealth Woman: Kate Carmack and the Klondike Race for Gold shows the matrilineal traditions of the Tagish people nearby.
"The Year of Living Danishly" by Helen Russell is an interesting description of equality in Denmark, written by a Brit whose husband works for Lego, the country's largest industry. Like other Scandinavian countries, work/life balance for both parents is encouraged by parental leave, short work hours, subsidized child care, etc. A surprising problem is domestic violence, which one Dane explained as due to alcohol consumption, their Viking ancestors, and not thinking of women as weaker than men.
Theresa Kachindamoto is a female chief making strides in her community in central Malawi having annulled reportedly more than 300 child marriages in June alone, and close to 850 child marriages over the past three years.http://www.makers.com/blog/female-chi...
(Makers is a good site for videos about girls and women)
Another article on child marriage
http://www.makers.com/blog/girls-not-...
Let's think of the UN as a society. The 2016 meeting of the UN's Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) finally acknowledged that the missing link in the fight for gender equality is the youth voice by organizing the Youth Forum CSW. It published A Declaration on Gender Equality that features these youth issues: decision-making, climate change, sexual and reproductive health, violence, economic empowerment, migration, access to media, religion, sports, and engaging young men.[i][i] http://www2.unwomen.org/~/media/headq...
This might be a bit trivial but I know many gay men in particular were celebrating.One of our stamps published in 2015 I think is of Tom of Finland. Quite a big deal in my opinion.
Tom of Finland also got his own textile collection at Finlayson, manufacturer of bedlinen etc.
women leaders make a difference!Makers Team, “This Fierce Female Chief Terminated Nearly 850 Child Marriages,” Makers.com, April 11, 2016.
http://www.makers.com/blog/female-chi...
Aisha, the youngest of the Prophet’s wives, married him when she was a child and is known as an intellectual. She wrote thousands of hadiths (teachings) after his death. She also led troops as she rode a camel in the Battle of the Camel. Can Saudi women use this fact to justify driving?
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Our Shared Shelf
Books mentioned in this topic
The Almost Nearly Perfect People: Behind the Myth of the Scandinavian Utopia (other topics)The Year of Living Danishly: My Twelve Months Unearthing the Secrets of the World's Happiest Country (other topics)
Wealth Woman: Kate Carmack and the Klondike Race for Gold (other topics)
Do you know of any egalitarian communities existing now?