The Malazan Fallen discussion

The Crippled God (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #10)
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Group Read - The Crippled God > TCG: Epilogue I and II

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message 1: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Epilogue I & II discussion


message 2: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
Fiddler talks about "I haven't talked to him in awhile" in reference to some demon that supposedly lives at the bottom of the place where he fishes. What is he referring to?


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments Mael? Just a guess, I have no evidence.


message 4: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
He referred to it as like "The Emperor's Demon". So I doubt it would be Mael. Unless the Emperor in question is Tahil I guess. But he was a king, not an emperor, so I'd assumed it has something to do with Shadowthrone.


message 5: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Apr 30, 2014 05:12AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
In House of Chains we get this from a conversation between Nok and Tavore about Malaz Harbour

I know of at least twelve ships on the muddy bottom of the harbour in question—’
‘Including the Twisted,’ the Adjunct drawled, ‘the old emperor’s flagship, which mysteriously slipped its moorings the night after the assassinations, then promptly plummeted into the deeps, taking its resident demon with it.’


And in Bonehunters wasn't there a demon disguised as a bartender at the place Kellanved's old crew used to drink before he became Emperor? I think Hellian ended up there at some stage


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments I defer to David on this one. It's much more like Erikson to make an oblique reference to a character who was so inconsequential to the series as to be irrelevant. Did Fiddler ever show up at Krul's Bar? I don't recall but that may have been where we first heard him play. If so, did he have any words then with the bartender demon?


message 7: by Rob, Quick Ben (last edited Apr 30, 2014 11:15AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1055 comments Mod
I thought the demon bar tender was at a different place near the deadhouse, not Krul's bar?

Or was that near the house in Malaz City? I think it might have been in Malaz.


message 8: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
The bartender was in Malaz city near Deadhouse. But I can't remember if Fiddler spoke to him then.


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments Yes, of course you are right. Mixing up my locations. But I'm switching my opinion back to Mael. Here's my very scant evidence. As Rob pointed out, the child referred to it as the "Emperor's Demon." But who is the emperor? Mallick Rel, a jhistal priest of Mael. So why not Mael? Or why would Fiddler's recollection of an insignificant bartender demon be worth bringing up in the epilogue (unless its to show that David Sven has a much better grasp of details in this series than the likes of me, but if that's so, how could Erikson have forseen that?)?


message 10: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
And Mael is also Emperor Tehol's "demon" I suppose - though I'm not sure that Fiddler would have used "demon" to describe a well known elder god - plus the term "Emperor's demon" sounds more like a familiar.

I have a sneaking suspicion though that there may be more clues about this in the ICE books - maybe this is just a cookie.


message 11: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Duffy wrote: "(unless its to show that David Sven has a much better grasp of details in this series than the likes of me, but if that's so, how could Erikson have forseen that?"

Ha Ha! I only remembered the bartender demon - I discovered the one that sank by accident.


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments Shocking as it may be, I returned to look at the text here. It scores one point for me, and one for David's theory.

For me: Fiddler doesn't call it the "Emperor's demon". The boy does. Fiddler just goes along with his speech. Fiddler is fishing in an area reputed to be bottomless. So I think Mael might be a possibility, and is not ruled out.

Against me: The boy refers to it as the "old Emperor's demon." Maybe they are calling Mallick the old Emperor, in the same way that civil war generals tended to get the cozy nickname of "Old so and so." But I doubt it. So, the boy is calling this Kallenved's Demon. And that would, I guess, be the demon that sank.

And if this is a reference to ICE books, or to future books, then again I think that's very much like Erikson: closing the series on a reference that no one could get simply by reading the series. Its that sort of thing that sometimes makes me want to tear my hair out (what little there is).


message 13: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
The moral of the story is that I should read chapters before commenting on the content of those chapters :)


message 14: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Ok, now I've finished.

The bar with the demon was Smiley's where Fiddler now plays.

Tulas Shornis dead - interestingly, the three Elient are still bound to Silchas' sword - so I'm left wandering what they got out of the deal with Cotillion - maybe they just got to get out and about now and then. And what happened to Curdle and Telorast?

Korlat gets to see Whiskeyjack one more time

WE learn Tehol hates the sea - boom boom

Onos Toolan and family end up with the Udinaas and Ryadd and the community of Imass from the refugium

And we end up right where we started in Gotm - Shadowthrone, Cottilion and the Hounds turning up at Apsalar's fishing village and Shadowthrone again contemplates making trouble for the current Emperor -

but instead they leave with Crokus and Apsalar back together and Cotillion's final mission is a success.


message 15: by Lori (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lori And it's comforting to know that our dynamic duo will be taking care of the Mallick problem in the future.


Johny (drbo) | 184 comments I love Silchas saying he will not cross Malazan's path again.

Roach pissing on Hood's leg is hillarious.


Wondering, Korlat crouched down, lifted back the lid. The chest was empty. Baffled, she straightened,
met the Adjunct’s eyes.
And saw a wry smile. ‘They were marines. Everything of value they’ve already left behind. In fact,
Korlat of the Tiste Andii, if Gesler and Stormy could, they’d be the first ones to loot their own grave
goods.’
‘And then bitch about how cheap we were,’ Fiddler said behind them.


This was touching.


Sinter made a startled sound, and beside her Kisswhere leaned forward to shoot Nep Furrow a
shocked look.
‘Really, Nep?’ Kisswhere asked.
‘Nepel!’
‘Gods below,’ Sinter whispered. ‘I never …’


But I really don't understand this. Someone explain, please?


message 17: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Heard she’s retiring us,’ ventured Sinter. ‘Priest’s paying us out – a damned fortune for each and every one of us.’

‘Where’en ne faareden? Eh? War bit ana dem?’
What about the fallen? Eh? What about all of them

‘To the families if they got any, Nep. That’s how it’s done. Stand or fall, you still get paid.’
‘G’han nered pah vreem!’
Going to never pay for me

Sinter made a startled sound, and beside her Kisswhere leaned forward to shoot Nep Furrow a shocked look.
‘Really, Nep?’ Kisswhere asked.
‘Nepel!’
Never


Either Nep is saying he can't die or he intends to not die ever. In either case no one will be getting paid from his death according to him.


message 18: by Lori (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lori Heh I couldn't figure that out either, thanks,


message 19: by DangerBin (last edited Oct 21, 2014 12:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

DangerBin | 52 comments To the families if they got any, Nep. That’s how it’s done. Stand or fall, you still get paid.’
‘G’han nered pah vreem!’
Going to never pay for me


Actually I read that as:
"I didn't do this for the money. I don't want to be paid for it. It cheapens what we did."

That's why it's "pay for me" instead of just "pay me" (if that's the proper translation... who knows?).


message 20: by Chaz (new) - added it

Chaz | 297 comments Boy I'm glad this garbled speak was kept to a minnimum in this series. I have read books with major characters you had to translate (/guess) everything they said.


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