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Suggestions & Questions > Shelfari merger

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message 1: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeths01) | 366 comments Hi, I just noticed on another thread someone mentioned that amazon is merging shelfri with GR. What does that mean for us here exactly? Will there be changes? I like things how they are here now.


message 2: by Nickname (last edited Jan 13, 2016 08:58AM) (new)

Nickname | 50 comments Perhaps it's the right thing to do, if Goodreads will receive a lot of improvements with the best feature of Shelfari.

Here an article about this

http://thereadersroom.org/2016/01/12/...


message 3: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeths01) | 366 comments honestly hoping we don't do nested comments....that's a change I would hate


message 4: by Jonetta (new)

Jonetta (Ejaygirl) | 658 comments Imagine how the Shelfari people feel who loved it.


message 5: by Emily, Director of Customer Care (new)

Emily | 2115 comments Mod
Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to hear them!


message 6: by Bunny (new)

Bunny Emily wrote: "Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to ..."

Hi Emily please see this thread re nested comments:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 7: by Almeta (new)

Almeta (MenFromMarrs) | 317 comments I see this nesting as a good format for "reply comments" in a general discussion thread. And don't like the idea of nesting in a specific topic thread.

I other words I want to see ALL comments about a book without having to open each nest.

Conversely, if, for example, in a general discussion someone replies to a "Its my Birthday" message, I'd rather have every response to that nested.

Can you have it both ways?


message 8: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (MsThestral) | 413 comments Emily wrote: "Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to ..."

It would be great if we could have the book info (Character lists, settings, etc.) incorporated from Shelfari. That is very helpful when trying to remember characters names and events.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Lauren wrote: "It would be great if we could have the book info (Character lists, settings, etc.) incorporated from Shelfari. That is very helpful when trying to remember characters names and events. "

The book records have a place for that information, but it is added by volunteer librarians. If/when you find book pages that do not have this information, you can report it in the librarians group and someone will be happy to add it. A new post in the "Book Issues" folder is the best place. I know this isn't perfect, but it will move us along the way to having a more complete catalog.


message 10: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (MsThestral) | 413 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Lauren wrote: "It would be great if we could have the book info (Character lists, settings, etc.) incorporated from Shelfari. That is very helpful when trying to remember characters names and event..."

Yes, I know that the book page as some information but it is not as comprehensive as the Shelfari details most of which is from Amazon X-Ray.


message 11: by Jonetta (last edited Jan 13, 2016 10:29AM) (new)

Jonetta (Ejaygirl) | 658 comments Lauren wrote: "It would be great if we could have the book info (Character lists, settings, etc.) incorporated from Shelfari. That is very helpful when trying to remember characters names and eve ..."

I've copied the info from Shelfari into book discussion threads on GR for the past two years. Participants have found them very helpful. It's one feature that I found invaluable and completed for every book I read since 2011.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Lauren wrote: "but it is not as comprehensive as the Shelfari details most of which is from Amazon X-Ray."

Hmm. well something was tried last year importing characters and settings from Amazon and it was a complete disaster. I don't know if staff has worked on an improvement or not, but, if not, I sure wouldn't want it happening again.


message 13: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (MsThestral) | 413 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I don't know if staff has worked on an improvement or not, but, if not, I sure wouldn't want it happening again. "

Considering that it is done properly on Shelfari and Amazon is interested in merging the two sites, one would think that they could find a way to successfully incorporate this functionality.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Lauren wrote: "Considering that it is done properly on Shelfari and Amazon is interested in merging the two sites, one would think that they could find a way to successfully incorporate this functionality. "

You'd think so. But I'm not holding my breath after last year.


message 15: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (MsThestral) | 413 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "You'd think so. But I'm not holding my breath after last year. ."

It doesn't hurt to ask - nothing ventured, nothing gained....


Elizabeth (Alaska) Lauren wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "You'd think so. But I'm not holding my breath after last year. ."

It doesn't hurt to ask - nothing ventured, nothing gained...."


No, not at all. And it would be great if they actually had a script that worked and would import those fields. If I sounded as if I didn't want the information, I'm sorry. That was not my intent. I was just throwing out a word of caution due to past experience.


message 17: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (MsThestral) | 413 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I was just throwing out a word of caution due to past experience.."

That's OK. Hopefully it is something that GR will consider and do right.


message 18: by Lady Shockley (new)

Lady Shockley | 14 comments Has any thought been given to importing group discussions (from Shelfari) to a new group here? I've been in a Shelfari discussion group for eight years and we frequently revisit old threads.

Those would be sorely missed if they were just to disappear into the ether, so suggestions would be welcome.


Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 155 comments Just had a look at Shelfari & they have rereads!

Does that mean rereads will be coming here?


message 20: by Nickname (last edited Jan 13, 2016 11:10AM) (new)

Nickname | 50 comments Emily wrote: "Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to ..."

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rzhrT6B7RR...

IMHO Shelfari had a very beautiful Shelf GUI (Better than this one in Goodreads) I really love Shelfari's wooden style (see the pic above).


Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂  | 155 comments I think their home page (the one you see when not signed in) is nice & functional.

The one design thing that I would have liked to see over here was making the GR one less cluttered.


message 22: by Nyssa (new)

Nyssa | 923 comments Lauren wrote: "It would be great if we could have the book info (Character lists, settings, etc.) incorporated from Shelfari. That is very helpful when trying to remember characters names and events. "

This!


message 23: by Nyssa (new)

Nyssa | 923 comments Carol ♪ Blinded by the Light ♪ GR Background wrote: "Just had a look at Shelfari & they have rereads!

Does that mean rereads will be coming here?"


They've been saying so for at least a year, and we've been asking for it for at least 6 years, so hopefully the functionality will be implemented sooner than later.


message 24: by Shaun, Community Expert (last edited Jan 15, 2016 01:06AM) (new)

Shaun (sponting) | 4593 comments Mod
Aimeesue wrote: "Has any thought been given to importing group discussions (from Shelfari) to a new group here? I've been in a Shelfari discussion group for eight years and we frequently revisit old..."

We're unable to migrate group discussion content to Goodreads unfortunately-- we can’t export comments without all individual members’ permission. I'm sorry about that Aimeesue. If there is any of this content you would like to keep for your records, we recommend you make a copy before March 16th, 2016.

Updated to add: You can make a copy of your own Shelfari group comments within discussions through this link. Please note that it will only contain your group content (not all content within the group).


message 25: by Sara (last edited Jan 14, 2016 06:06AM) (new)

Sara (Mootastic1) | 6 comments Emily wrote: "Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to ..."

Why is the focus only on bringing the community to goodreads? As a longtime Shelfari member who does not like anything about the Goodreads format I can't imagine why you would not want to make the Shelfari community comfortable by at least bringing over some of the features that we most love.

Nesting is one such feature. I know a lot of people at Goodreads do not like, which I don't understand. Nesting fosters the ability to have an in depth conversation. Having all posts in one long thread without being able to directly reply to a person makes it very difficult to maintain a conversation and in fact discourages the in-depth type of book discussions which are the whole reason I use websites such as Shelfari. To be honest, the lack of nesting makes it highly unlikely that I will ever become an active member of Goodreads and I know that it is driving many other Shelfari members away.


message 26: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 2276 comments but at the same time, sine the majority of GR users (many of us who have experienced various nesting websites including Shelfari) don't like it - why should we be forced to adopt a system we don't like/want?

you can directly reply to a person on GR - typically I copy the portion of the comment I want to reply to; click on reply and voila - you could even reference the specific comment


message 27: by Jen (new)

Jen | 22 comments Dee wrote: "but at the same time, sine the majority of GR users (many of us who have experienced various nesting websites including Shelfari) don't like it - why should we be forced to adopt a system we don't ..."

I would like groups to be able to make that choice for themselves. I don't get why nesting of replies is so awful. As Sara mentioned above, it discourages easy back and forth between two people within a group. I'm not talking about creating nested tiers for everything but simply being able to nest replies to individual people below the thread that is specific to what is being discussed.

To give an example. We have a 1001 book group at Shelfari. As part of this group we read 3 monthly reads, 1 seasonal read, and 1 annual read. For each book, we post 10-20 individual questions about that book. GR essentially forces us to put all questions in one topic (unless we want to create a million folders) then members respond to all 20 question in the same topic, without having an easy way to separate out the comments by question.

GR has a 1001 group. They format it so each book is a "topic" then they have to keep it open for all comments about the book. So under one book discussion you have tons of people responding with general comments along with replies to those comments and it is cumbersome to sort out. Not saying it's a bad group but just a different sort of discussion set up that facilitates more general impressions than it does in-depth analysis.

So my question to GR is why not allow group moderators the option, when creating a group, to add nested responses as a feature of THAT group? That way people who don't like nested groups won't join, but those of us who want in-depth book discussions can do so easily.


message 28: by MrsJoseph (new)

MrsJoseph | 3438 comments I would like to suggest an alternative that could possibly be a happy medium?

There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also includes a hyperlink back to the specific post being replied to - allowing multi-strand in-depth conversations to take place without nesting.


message 29: by Sassafrass (new)

Sassafrass (sass-a-frass) | 23 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "I would like to suggest an alternative that could possibly be a happy medium?

There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also includes a hyperlink back to the specific post being replied to - allowing multi-strand in-depth conversations to take place without nesting. "


I like the hyperlink idea, I hate not knowing where original post that is being replied to comes from. Sometimes it makes it hard to follow the conversation. I would like to go back to that post but have to scroll through all the comments to find it.

Great idea!


message 30: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeths01) | 366 comments I'd be okay with the letting mods decide for their groups whether they want the nesting or not.


message 31: by Jen (last edited Jan 14, 2016 07:10AM) (new)

Jen | 22 comments Elizabeth wrote: "I'd be okay with the letting mods decide for their groups whether they want the nesting or not."

I don't know if it would be technologically feasible but it would be a really nice feature for us that wouldn't impact GR users who don't like the nested features.

To make a point in response to Sara and Dee's reaction to her comment: I get that GR users don't want to change what they see to be a great system. I would feel the same way if the "merger" had gone the other way and GR users wanted us to eliminate the nesting. I think we are upset because we lost a site and format we loved and are now being asked to take our business to a site that lacks one of the core pieces of what we loved about Shelfari.

Should GR users be forced to make changes to the whole system that they don't like because our site got shut down? No, definitely not. But, it would be nice if as gesture to welcome us into this community that GR include some features that we can use in the creation of the specific groups we moderate without having to change the overall structure of GR and make all of you unhappy. There has to be some middle ground.

And for the record, I love lots of features at GR. I've had an account here for a while. I've advocated for some of these changes at Shelfari.


message 32: by Belles (new)

Belles | 12 comments Emily wrote: "Hi all - the focus of the Shelfari merger is bringing members of the Shelfari community to Goodreads. However, if you have any feature suggestions based on Shelfari functionality, we would love to ..."

I and all my Shelfari friends forced over here would desperately love nested conversations. I understand many people already here would not like this feature in their groups. A few people have suggested the option of being able to activate this feature in their group only if the moderators want it. This seems like a solution that would please everyone. I hope the site developers are seriously considering this. Folders just aren't a feasible work-around to replace nested conversations.

Having said that, I'm already enjoying many of the new features Goodreads offers that Shelfari didn't. I'm looking forward to making this my new "home" and finding new friends here.


message 33: by Sara (new)

Sara (Mootastic1) | 6 comments Dee wrote: "but at the same time, sine the majority of GR users (many of us who have experienced various nesting websites including Shelfari) don't like it - why should we be forced to adopt a system we don't ..."

I know that you can do that, but it still makes it very difficult to track a conversation. Even in short threads I find impossible to know what a response is in regards to and constantly find myself having to scroll back up to read the original post which is not effective time management.

It is the intervening posts that wind up in the middle of a conversation that are in response to something entirely separate that cause the problem.

MrsJoseph's suggestion is a great one. But to make it even better it would be nice if you could keep tracking back. For example. I post a review in a discussion forum. 3 people respond. 2 others respond to 1 of those responses. If I can click through all the way back to the original and see all of the responses in that chain, it would be incredibly helpful. The knitting website, Ravelry is a good example of this. It is a way of creating nesting that allows the user to make that decision for themself. So for those of you who don't like nesting, you don't have to see it, but for those of us who use it, we would have that option.


message 34: by Melanti (last edited Jan 14, 2016 07:34AM) (new)

Melanti The thing that I dislike about nested conversations is that it can be difficult to see where new comments are.

I've often been in nested threads and suddenly realized that two people are having a completely separate (and very interesting) conversation a page or two back that I never got to see.


But it would be nice to have a hyperlink back to the original comment when replying and to make it easier to reply to one specific portion of a person's post. Right now, you have to copy the sentence(s) you'd like to respond to, hit the reply button, then replace the automatically quoted portion with the specific text you like to cite. And when people don't do this, it can get kind of confusing. Especially when someone is replying to someone who's replying to someone, who's replying to someone, and no one has bothered to edit the quotes, so all you see is "Person C said: Person B said: Person A said: [generic sounding statement]" and you have to scroll up and hunt for what is actually being talked about because there's multiple conversations going on.


Elizabeth (Alaska) MrsJoseph wrote: "There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also includes a hyperlink back to the specific post being replied to - allowing multi-strand in-depth conversations to take place without nesting."

While it is not as easily done, this can be done here now.


message 36: by Antonomasia (last edited Jan 14, 2016 07:54AM) (new)

Antonomasia | 538 comments Goodreads is diffuse and it can be difficult to find the right stuff. Whilst this isn't quite the same as the nesting issue, there are a lot of in-depth discussions on Goodreads once you find people who are involved in them - yes there may still be the occasional drive-by troll even around academic or obscure books - but there are excellent discussions about types of books that are hardly even reviewed on Shelfari (which visually, I agree, is a nicer looking site). The number of people here means you're more likely to find someone who's interested in a topic or a less popular book. And it also means you get to hear about a wider variety of books. A lot of my recent favourites don't have any substantial reviews on Shelfari, if they have any at all.

A couple of examples of discussions of a type which I think some assume don't happen on Goodreads (I was in a hurry, there are plenty better around if I'd taken longer)
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
https://www.goodreads.com/user_status...

I think there is some stereotyping of GR going on. I recognise what's being said about the content, especially in the blog comments, as related more to YA books and the most popular classics - there is plenty else happening, and even on those popular books there are good discussions when you find them. It's a lot like a big city after a small town. In some ways it's more raucous, but the numbers of people who share your interests are greater, making it more rewarding once you've found them; besides they have found further interests from others in the larger community, meaning there's more to hear about.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Jen wrote: "But, it would be nice if as gesture to welcome us into this community that GR include some features"

Yes, it probably would. What would be really nice is if GR would include some features that GR users have been asking for for years. Even if GR were to decide to incorporate nesting, don't hold your breath that it could in the remotest sense be incorporated in a 2-month timeframe. GR improvements are glacial.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Belles wrote: "I and all my Shelfari friends forced over here would desperately love nested conversations. "

I don't see how you can say "forced". There are other sites than Goodreads.


message 39: by Sara (new)

Sara (Mootastic1) | 6 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also includes a hyperlink back to the specific post being replied t..."

Can you explain how? I have been a member of goodreads for three years and have never been able to find a way to have a good conversation. This might convince me to stay, because right now there is a very high likelyhood that I will be forced to go elsewhere for my book needs as there is little about GR that meets my needs.


message 40: by MrsJoseph (new)

MrsJoseph | 3438 comments I'm glad y'all like the suggestion - now if only GR staff would try it.

:-)


message 41: by Sara (last edited Jan 14, 2016 07:54AM) (new)

Sara (Mootastic1) | 6 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Belles wrote: "I and all my Shelfari friends forced over here would desperately love nested conversations. "

I don't see how you can say "forced". There are other sites than Goodreads."


Yes, we can go elsewhere. A large number of people are doing just that. Forced is a good word to explain how we feel because we are being made to leave the site we want to use. For many of us, Shelfari is much more than just another website, it is a home. I get that it is a business decision but if Amazon didn't want to pay to maintain two book media sites, then perhaps they should have only bought one.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Sara wrote: "Can you explain how? I have been a member of goodreads for three years and have never been able to find a way to have a good conversation. "

As referenced above, I have copied and pasted the specific portion of your comment to which I am replying. I can also link to your comment using the href html command.

The timestamp in your comment, when clicked, is it's own URL. Copy and insert in the href command. I think the href command can be difficult to use, but I have the extension bbcode insert for Chrome. I think there is one for Firefox also. Easily accessing the href html language makes it much easier than trying to do it myself.


message 43: by MrsJoseph (new)

MrsJoseph | 3438 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also includes a hyperlink back to the specific post being replied t..."

If a user has to learn HTML in order to do it, it's not automated - defeating the purpose.


Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ (Linda2485) | 504 comments Nickname wrote: "IMHO Shelfari had a very beautiful Shelf GUI (Better than this one in Goodreads) I really love Shelfari's wooden style (see the pic above)."

That is very pretty, IA.

I really do not like the book cover only shelf style though, but GR does give you that option if you want it.


message 45: by Carola (new)

Carola (brilliantyears) | 197 comments Elizabeth, you are right that it can be done. But I still don't see why GR never implemented a proper quoting system that did all of this automatically. Nothing fancy or nested, but something that does approximately what those old phpBB boards used to do would be great. Right now the standard quoting/replying function is hardly functional.


Elizabeth (Alaska) MrsJoseph wrote: "If a user has to learn HTML in order to do it, it's not automated - defeating the purpose."

Well, if you read my comment, I said it wasn't as easy but can be done. My theory is not to wait for GR to do something if there is an available workaround. I usually hope GR will implement the suggestions offered in the feedback group, but all of us long-time members know we can usually grow gray hoping.


message 47: by Antonomasia (new)

Antonomasia | 538 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I don't see how you can say "forced". There are other sites than Goodreads."
Increasingly few - Bookrabbit is also down (not sure if that's just temporary). And it's horrid being turfed out of your online home of many years, and it splits communities as people decide to go to different places, so one can't blame people for feeling 'forced'. I came here with a few friends after a Facebook app closed, but we hadn't been so invested in that, as it had only been going about 3 years; it wasn't as bad as a couple of the forum closures I've seen.


message 48: by Sara (new)

Sara (Mootastic1) | 6 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Sara wrote: "Can you explain how? I have been a member of goodreads for three years and have never been able to find a way to have a good conversation. "

As referenced above, I have copied and pas..."


Thank you for taking the time to respond, but sadly this does not at all meet my needs.


Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ (Linda2485) | 504 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "I would like to suggest an alternative that could possibly be a happy medium?

There is a site I belong to that actually does a complete copy of an entire post when a user hits "reply." This also i..."


I like this idea also. The way replies work here make it nearly impossible to tell who is responding to whom, especially when there are more than two previous replies. All you see are names of posters and no actual text, since GR is so limited on what it automatically includes in the reply posts. It's up to the poster to c/p the relevant text and bring that forward, and many simply don't do this. And it's especially difficult to follow when the reply is to a post on a previous page, sometimes even several pages ago.

Nesting on the other hand makes it difficult to find new comments, and it too can have the issue of not being able to tell who is responding to whom, just in a different way. Though this of course depends on the way nesting is set up. Some work better than others.

The hyperlink idea though takes away that issue in both cases. Amazon actually does something similar to that in its discussion boards.


Elizabeth (Alaska) Sara wrote: "Thank you for taking the time to respond, but sadly this does not at all meet my needs. "

I am heavily invested in Goodreads and I can't imagine what it would be like for it to go away and so cannot even begin to imagine what it is like for so many Shelfari members. But Goodreads doesn't meet all of my needs either. There are features we've been requesting for years that, if implemented, would move us along that line.


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