The Expanded Universe discussion

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Group Stuff > EU Becomes "Legends" & New Canon

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message 1: by Rob (last edited Apr 25, 2014 02:58PM) (new)

Rob Big news from Lucasfilm today. So the EU is now officially "non-canonical" but could be drawn from in future story lines overseen by the new Lucasfilm Story Group.

The good news is we've got four new books to look forward to and that they are 100% canonical.

So where does that leave us in this group?

Lucasfilm press release:
http://starwars.com/news/the-legendar...

Del Ray new book announcements:
http://starwars.com/news/disney-publi...

My own blog about it (in case anyone is interested):
http://starwarsdaddy.blogspot.com/201...


message 2: by Benjamin (new)

Benjamin Ah you beat me to posting by a couple minutes! :)


message 3: by Ash (new)

Ash (thrasher) I'm upset that everything in the works was cancelled. I don't care if it was cannon or not I would have liked to have read Sword of the Jedi.


message 4: by Brianna (new)

Brianna | 20 comments Thanks for the post


message 5: by Deeptanshu (new)

Deeptanshu | 42 comments Bit upsetting that all of the books that I have read over the years is not canon but I can understand the reasons behind it. But the movies had better be awesome!


message 6: by Matthew (new)

Matthew | 6 comments Add me to the I don't like it but I understand why group. Honestly, wouldn't everyone be disappointed if they just took a storyline from the EU and made a movie about it?


message 7: by Nicole (new)

Nicole | 3 comments I personally find this whole "Legends" crap to be confusing, given it seems they're just doing this until they figure something out canon wise. Personally, I don't think most of what we know of the EU, is going to be discarded, and the changes will be relatively minor. That being said, it would've been nice if they gave us something to hold us over until September novel wise.


message 8: by Andy (new)

Andy | 4 comments What happens if the movie is terrible? Everyone who is excited for the "new canon" will be clamoring for the old EU. I think the multimedia roll out projects have been some of my least favorite parts of the EU, looking at you, Shadows of the Empire and Force Unleashed. Maybe Disney will handle this one better than Lucas did, but I have some doubts.


message 9: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 53 comments Andy: I can say, at least for me, that whether the new movies are good or bad I will still enjoy the new book line and I like the fact that this time around the new books will be canon. The old books were never canon so this is a nice addition. I am already assuming the new movies will be bad, come on Jar Jar Abrams is involved so already we have limited the potential quality of the first film. So yes I am excited for the new book line especially with James Luceno involved.


message 10: by Gene (new)

Gene | 5 comments I dunno. I see why they did it but don't like it.

Really, I feel like I was ripped off. The books were sold as official books of the Star Wars universe. Now they are not. I'm not so sure I would have bought as many books as I did if they were not official. I bought them all because a) I wanted to continue the story, b)They were official, and C) I wanted to support the EU as a whole.

They put a lot of effort into making it all consistent.


I'm not so sure I'll buy any more, feel like I got burned.


message 11: by Darren (new)

Darren I feel for you Gene and I hear what you're saying. Yes the books were released as official Star Wars but they were never promised as being canon.

Now the concept of canon has been so heavily desired by the EU community over the years. It has led to the development of all those levels of canon and endless hours of discussion of how to ret-con all the events and characters. These are all actions of a group of people (whom I count myself part of) trying to build a singular canon from a group of material that was never meant to be one long, continuous story.
Can't you see that Lucasfilm has finally given the fans what they ultimately want? They would not be able to accomplish this unless they rebranded the existing material and start with a clean slate. Enjoy the books you have collected and stories they have given us.
Try to have a bit of optimism because we're finally getting what we've always wanted: for the Star Wars Expanded Universe to actually be THE Star Wars Universe.


message 12: by Emilie (new)

Emilie Nouveau | 1 comments Well, I know I'm not going to see the new movies or read the new books. It isn't bitterness, it's just not my Star Wars. If the current EU characters aren't in the new canon, then the new canon holds about as much interest for me as the latest Spiderman reboot.

It's sad that I've considered myself a diehard Star Wars fan for years, and I'll have to clarify that I'm a "Legends" Star Wars fan from now on. I'll never get to read the end of the storylines I've been following for so long.


message 13: by Gene (new)

Gene | 5 comments I do know that there are different levels of canon, and I understand that. But these books were considered a level of canon. Not on level with the movies, but still canon.

All that aside, my copy of Heir to the Empire says pretty clearly that it's a Lucas Film Authorized continuation of the Star Wars story. That's why I bought it.

If it has said, Based on the events, and not Authorized, that would have been a different story. We all bought these books because hey were, to some degree, official. Now they are not.

I completely understand their reasoning, but I don't have to like it, or support it. I'm sure I'll see the movies, but I seriously doubt I'll pick up another book ever again.

As I've learned over the years with long running franchises, the owners of the franchises care more about gaining new fans than supporting the original fans.

**shrug**

As Always, I'll vote with my wallet.


message 14: by Roberto (new)

Roberto Moscoso | 2 comments What Emilie said, is the same I've been saying all along, unfortunately my friends that are fans that have read some books are down to a few, out of that that read legacy of the force a couple and faith of the jedi or new jedi order, none! of course Crucible and that are waiting for sword of the jedi, it goes down to me :( sucks! and that's what pisses me off cause now they are never gonna read them nor be interested in them like will even Winter exist! I mean she is such an important character Daala! c'm on or Gilad Paleon, Fell, The whole Hapan Sector! wow so much I love and that might not make it to canon so I wont be able to discuss it with anyone I know :( sad really. Ok Disney is not targeting us, but the new gens that will grow with Star Wars and not the ones that grew with it, we are the forgotten fans they are looking for the kids that will want the new toys no matter how poorly articulated and badly produced they are (compare legacy hasbro figures with clone wars, clone wars suck!) so that's where they hold the true all time fans as legacy's as well


message 15: by Greg (new)

Greg | 6 comments I'm really looking forward to the new books that will be 'official' canon. As far as my reading experience of Star Wars goes -- I had never read an EU novel or comic until April 2012, when I really got back into Star Wars for the first time in years (was always a fan of the movies prior). Using the "Wookieepedia" timeline, I started reading every book, comic/graphic novel, and playing any video game still available by starting from the "Knights of the Old Republic" comics. Currently (2 years later!) I've just reach the point of reading the Han Solo novels. That's 100's of comics, and about 50 books, later. It's been a lot of fun!

That said, most of the EU content that will significantly be affected is probably post-ROTJ material -- none of which I've read yet. I'm thinking I might just stop reading EU stuff once I catch up to the events of ROTJ. What do you all think?


message 16: by Grave (new)

Grave | 17 comments I've honestly read more than I care to admit of the EU, and you all might remember some of my harsh criticisms of some of the books. I enjoyed most of the books I read, but I will admit some of them were a real chore. Reading chronologically, I've ended up right now on the Third novel of the Jedi Academy series.

The new canon idea intrigues me, and the mention of James Luceno's active role excited me. He has been by far the best writer in the franchise in my opinion, and has had a knack for answering the questions we've all asked ourselves without destroying the reasons why we asked such questions. I might even go as far as to say that the prequels are a lot less painful to watch after gaining the understanding from his tie-in novels. To me, Star Wars isn't just an adventure, it's a carefully knit plan executed with the realities of failure, hardships, and half-victories. It's my hope that these new novels, and the new movies, won't attempt to achieve the level of closure that the prequels did, and instead reinvigorate our imaginations just as the original trilogy had.


message 17: by Grave (new)

Grave | 17 comments Also, yes I do feel kind of like I got burned. I read these novels with the understanding that they were all approved and, to my knowledge, canon.


message 18: by Maegen (new)

Maegen | 1 comments I am not happy at all about this news- I really hate how they are deeming a lot of my favorite books to a 'legend'(I really don't like that term) and uncanon status.
But, I have decided to keep believing that the EU is canon(along with the PT and OT movies).


message 19: by Jeff Diamond, Grand Moff (new)

Jeff Diamond | 178 comments Mod
Well, let's not forget that the existing EU books were never canonical on the same level as the films. Yes, they were canon in that they were licensed and approved, but they could be superseded at any time by George Lucas. I'm sure there are some benefits to this, although I can't think of any right now.

One possibility is that some of the very best stories might make it into the new canon. It's possible that the new books and movies will reference something in the Thrawn trilogy, then Disney will decide to rebrand it and put it out as canon. It's a long shot, but hope springs eternal.


message 20: by Jim (new)

Jim | 100 comments I was pretty disappointed initially when I heard that the EU was becoming Legends and would not be part of the official canon. I think this was primarily because I enjoy the EU so much with the characters and storylines and those won't be continued. It is unfortunate that they won't continue Jaina's story. I know they won't make the EU canon but what I wish they could do is continue the EU as one series and start the new official canon separately. Frankly, Disney already has precedence for this in their Marvel comics lines. The marvel movies follow a different canon than the comics. Separately, marvel comics have their ultimate marvel line. Similar characters but in new, separate, and distinct stories. This was done in order to introduce wonderful characters like Spider-Man to a new audience without them having to wade through 50 years of continuity. The Ultimate line appealed to new readers while the original line continued for older readers. I think the new official canon could fill that "traditional" star wars role while the EU would be the "Ultmate" star wars.

For those that hope only the post ROTJ material is kept non-canon, please look at the four forthcoming Star Wars canon novels. Heir to the Jedi takes place between ANH and ESB. I think we can assume Tarkin takes place prior to ANH considering he dies in that film. The Sith story clearly takes place before ROTJ (possible even before ANH) since both sith die in ROTJ. The Rebels novel clearly takes place prior to ANH. I think most books we will be seeing for the immediate future will take place prior to the end of ROTJ to allow the filmmakers maximum flexibility for episode 7. Once episode 7 is released and the storyline is available, then they can start commmisioning new titles to fill in the 35 year gap.

My biggest disappointment is the end of the storylines that have already been developed.


message 21: by Jeff Diamond, Grand Moff (new)

Jeff Diamond | 178 comments Mod
I don't think anyone would debate that we're all bummed about this news, but I was just listening to the ForceCast, and thought of something: why can't they continue both storylines? I don't see how having one book released under the new canon will somehow interfere with another book under the "Legends" banner, but maybe I'm not seeing something. Seems to me that as long as people are interested in each continuum, they will continue to produce material in each. I know that Becky and I would probably jump on a series that starts after Fate of the Jedi, even if it's considered Legends, because the characters are interesting. And as Eric and Erik on the ForceCast mentioned, it's not like they're disappearing. I'd be willing to bet that someone will turn to those stories at some point and say "Hey, I love this story. Let's spin this one into a show," or "Let's take this from Legends and drop it into canon."

By the way, we should all get together and come up with a good name for the new canon. We have Legends and...what?


message 22: by Jim (new)

Jim | 100 comments "By the way, we should all get together and come up with a good name for the new canon. We have Legends and...what?"

Just my thought but I don't think it needs a name. We have Canon (the movies and new books forthcoming) and we have Legends (all the previously existing EU material).

I honestly think we are going to be in the dark about a lot of Legends material until the new film comes out. Once it comes out next year, we'll know how much it departs from the EU material and how much isn't impacted. For instance, if it introduces Han and Leia are married with kids but those kids are not names Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin, that basically forbids the potential canonization of everything after Heir to the Empire. However, it would not necessarily prohibit Courtship of Princess Leia and the X-Wing series from being canon.

I think they are going to wait until the new movie is released before making any potential decisions regarding Legends and making anything in it canon. I also think they will wait to see the sales on the new canon novels as well. If sales continue to do well, even with some of the dissent, I don't think there will be a lot of support for continuing with new Legends material.


message 23: by Jeff Diamond, Grand Moff (new)

Jeff Diamond | 178 comments Mod
Becky mentioned Han and Leia's relationship yesterday, and there was something I thought was telling. On the imdb.com page, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher are credited as Han Solo and Leia Solo, respectively. So we can read into that what we will.

But I don't know they'll wait another year and a half to do anything with Legends; odds are they've got several books already in the pipeline, and it's going to be a pain to delay those. That's not to say they wouldn't do it, but it'd be quite a bit of work they're likely to want to avoid. As for there not being a lot of support for continuing with new Legends stuff...I disagree. The Diz is a company, and bought Lucasfilm because it oozes money. Legends includes a LOT of NY Times bestsellers, and I doubt the powers that be will want to put that cash cow out to pasture. Customers speak with their wallets, which is also the way companies listen. We all love characters, so I'd be really surprised if Legends dies out, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this new canon become just as popular and borrow (read: steal) elements, characters, plots and possibly events from older Legends material. Does that mean we'll see Thrawn as a full-on canonical character? Maybe. Am I going to hold my breath for that day? Absolutely not.


message 24: by Jim (new)

Jim | 100 comments I mainly had two points. One is that if people are accepting of the new canon and continue to purchase the books, Lucasbooks won't necessarily see a reason for continuing with new Legends material because people are buying what is being put out with the canon material, there is no need for two timestreams. I'd like to see both but won't hold my breath for it unless there is significant fan revolt.

Second, there are already 4 books planned being released up through March of 2015. All of them deal with timeframes that won't be impacted based on whatever happens in Episode 7 (pre ROTJ stories). I don't foresee any post ROTJ stories until after the plot for Episode 7 is solidified because of the whole creative flexibility thing. Once it is released, they'll know what of the EU might fit and what doesn't and can act accordingly.


message 25: by Jordan (new)

Jordan Mathews | 3 comments I agree with you whole heartedly about the change in the EU, Emile.
The post-ROTJ EU characters and settings are my Star Wars, and I can't sit comfortably knowing that it all was washed away with the tide of uncreative Disney writers.

I don't care how cool they make XJ fighters if their reason for being designed (yuuzhan vong) isn't present. I don't care if they make a cool female lead if they create a world that doesn't include Danni Quee, Winter Chelchu, Syal Antilles, Alema rar, Jaina Solo, Natasi Daala, Gaeriel Captison, Malinza Thanas, Mara Jade, Vestara Khai and Tionne, to name a few.

This bullshit argument, that the writers were restricted by the extensive EU, is infuriating. "Would you really want a story you've already read to be turned into a movie?" No. Just put the damn movie after 45 ABY. The big three are old and tired by this point and are literally begging to be replaced.

Every press release has been a patronizing, Public Relations slap in the face, continuing the long tradition of putting the most extensive, thought-provoking, and original branch of Star Wars, along with its fans, in the back row, where no one will hear them.

Fuck Legos, angry birds, the clone wars, and George Lucas' lack of interest in good story telling for their contribution to making "Star Wars fans" appear in the public eye as idiot-children, or merchandise whores, who will be happy as long as the new characters get their own bobble heads and Adidas.

And if you haven't read the EU after ROTJ, you haven't read the EU. (Not to steal thunder from the likes of Drew Karpyshyn, but the pre ROTJ can't be held up just by a few good books) The sheer magnitude of the universe that is created is staggering. I dare you to find a comparable fictional universe. The clone wars novels are interesting pieces of background on characters from the movies, and are intentionally so.

The post ROTJ EU is original, and combats the issues people have had with Star Wars as a franchise: the xenophobia, patriarchal overtones, the elitism and entitlement of the Jedi and all force users, male-centered everything, immature view of good vs evil, and poor concept of physics.

It's sad to see so many devoted fans becoming resigned and saying " eh.. I hope they get it right!" I don't. They won't. We just watched the death of an incredibly rewarding and extensive universe that is truly one of a kind on it's scale. Disney is trying to sugar-coat and say that "at least the stories still happened to YOU!"

We'll never see the sword of the Jedi, or the Luke portion of Empire and Rebellion, and we'll never see what Allana gets into, or How Jagged Fel leads the new Empire. It's over.

I guess the silver lining is that the Star Wars I love no longer has to exist in a universe where battle droids shout out "uh oh!" And make quips about Jedi. And I can happily say that Karen Traviss is the real authority on Mandalorian culture, not the garbage that David Filoni put out to further over-saturate the market with clone wars era stories.

Yes, the change in the EU has me upset.


message 26: by Csusza (new)

Csusza | 1 comments I haven't read any post ROTJ books yet, so I feel like a bit of an outsider, but even after all that's happening, I still think that EU and the new storyline can exist together, and I'm looking forward to reading them both.

As many are saying, basing the new film on a book would have been a bad choice, so obviously they needed a new story. But (I suppose) if the characers of the film were already mentioned in books, already had their own adventures, then those who did not read the books wouldn't get what's happening - not entirely.

Plus, I think they wanted to let everyone see that there's a new 'era' now, hat Disney's in charge. I still can't agree with that, but if - if - they get it right, there'll be new characers to love, new stories to enjoy, and so on.

Don't damn it till you know what it is, I say.


message 27: by Kelley (new)

Kelley Rainer | 4 comments I will join the chorus that is disappointed that the EU is officially non-canonical but, understands and accepts why. I think the best way to view the Legends is to view it as something I was told rather than something written in the news. That is how I choose to see the timeline going forward.


message 28: by Deeptanshu (new)

Deeptanshu | 42 comments Kelley wrote: "I will join the chorus that is disappointed that the EU is officially non-canonical but, understands and accepts why. I think the best way to view the Legends is to view it as something I was told ..."
I second that.
I love the EU and have read practically every SW book and comic and played a lot of the games as well so i was not exactly thrilled when a lot of my favorite characters and stories were consigned to the dustbin of history. However the sheer size and complexity of the EU worked against it in this instance and would have tied the hands of the movie writers if they had tried to keep everything canonical.
However that does not mean I am happy about it and my approval is dependent on their making a great movie.
Otherwise they would have simply destroyed and vast and varied universe of stories for no good reason.


message 29: by Jim (new)

Jim | 100 comments Just to check in on this topic, but has anyone seen anything regarding pre-ROTJ material being made canon (possibly)? I understand everything post ROTJ will be scrapped because of the new movie but everything before ROTJ shouldn't be affected.

I am wondering if they intend to rewrite the pre-ROTJ history as well or if it will be kept. Will Han Solo's origins change from what was in AC Crispin's series? Will the Old Republic and the lost sith stories now be redeveloped? I'm curious. I know some of the first books they released with the Legends banner were the older Han Solo and Lando adventures. This would suggest everything prior to New Dawn was obsolete regardless of where it fell in the overall timeline.

Anyone see any stories regarding this?


message 30: by Christopher (new)

Christopher Preiman | 14 comments They have not said any of it is, but Tarkin does refer to some EU stuff. I think it's safe to assume that even though the stories are out, a lot of what they set up isn't


message 31: by Jim (new)

Jim | 100 comments I know there are a lot of fans that are disappointed with the EU becoming Legends. I count myself among them being upset that the EU characters and storylines (Sword of the Jedi, Ben Skywalker, Jaina Solo/Fel, Vestra Khai) will not continue. However, is anybody excited about the new Journey to the Force Awakens? I found myself being pretty happy about new novels coming out and them starting to fill (refill) the gap after ROTJ. I'm very curious and excited about the new Aftermath novel. I've been trying to avoid reading too many spoilers about the movie but am looking forward to new material. I'm still holding out some hope that some of the favorite characters will find new life in the canonical star wars universe. Don't get me wrong, I was ticked off as anybody to learn the EU was becoming Legends but as we get closer to the new movie I am pretty psyched out the level of effort being put in to fill in the gap (20+ books).

How does everyone else feel?


message 32: by Kenny (new)

Kenny (kenny_m) | 1 comments Not sure about this, but I read (maybe on MakingStarWars.com) that the announcement was not about 20 books/novels, but more like 20 "works" then also including YA, learning-to-read-guides and comics for this fall.
Though I am hyped also, it doesn't replace Mara.


message 33: by Gene (new)

Gene | 5 comments Put me int the 'irritated that the EU was side lined' camp. I'll see the movie, But I'm not investing in any more books. Not time, and definitely not money. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on you.

However, I have found that I'm not as excited about the new movie as I was in the past.


message 34: by Kinsley (new)

Kinsley I love the "EU", I don't understand why we have to obey Lucas and Disney on what is "Canon" and not. I love the different story lines I'm not someone who says oh no this doesn't fit into the movies. I think it is a bad idea to get rid of "EU" in my opinion it made Star Wars bigger then what it is. But in the end I still have MMO to play with new "EU" coming out..


message 35: by Noelle (new)

Noelle | 7 comments The EU is still canon in my book...and that's all that really matters to me.


message 36: by Pete (new)

Pete (petehale) Geez, old news.


message 37: by Chad (last edited Feb 10, 2019 11:29AM) (new)

Chad | 20 comments Peter wrote: "Geez, old news."

Well, the thread is from 2014. I do think this is the news that ultimately led to this group's death.


message 38: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 53 comments Chad: I agree I think this news killed this group, and another group I was in as well. It is a shame really.


message 39: by Chad (new)

Chad | 20 comments Thomas wrote: "Chad: I agree I think this news killed this group, and another group I was in as well. It is a shame really."

I feel like even SW fans don't care much about the new Canon books, I know the ones I've read have been "meh" at best. They just feel neutered compared to the old EU.


message 40: by Gene (new)

Gene | 5 comments I've read a couple of the new books as well and I think meh is generous. sold them right back to the used book store. those are the only sw books I've ever sold back


message 41: by Gene (new)

Gene | 5 comments I've read a couple of the new books as well and I think meh is generous. sold them right back to the used book store. those are the only sw books I've ever sold back


message 42: by Melissa (new)

Melissa (virusq) I'm reading Alphabet Squadron by Alexander Freed right now and it's excellent. The new Thrawn novels have been very polished (and tied into other media) and the young adult novels have been top notch.


message 43: by Chad (new)

Chad | 20 comments I thought the Thrawn novels have been pretty weak compared to the Legends Thrawn books.


message 44: by Melissa (new)

Melissa (virusq) To each their own.

I just finished Alphabet Squadron and loved it. Some gritty military fiction and an interesting dive into post-rotj imperial psyche. :D


message 45: by Chad (new)

Chad | 20 comments Melissa wrote: "To each their own.

I just finished Alphabet Squadron and loved it. Some gritty military fiction and an interesting dive into post-rotj imperial psyche. :D"


Did you read the Tie Fighter comics that accompanied it?


message 46: by Melissa (new)

Melissa (virusq) No! I haven't had a chance to catch up on comics. They're unfortunately not available in a commute-friendly audiobook format.


message 47: by Chad (new)

Chad | 20 comments Melissa wrote: "No! I haven't had a chance to catch up on comics. They're unfortunately not available in a commute-friendly audiobook format."

You should take some time to check them out. The Star Wars comics in general have been fantastic since Marvel took back the license. I haven't had an opportunity to read the Tie Fighter ones specifically yet. I usually wait until they come out as trade paperbacks.


message 48: by Melissa (new)

Melissa (virusq) I would love to! I really enjoyed the Leia comics and the Poe comics. Haven't had time between a full time job and full time school to read comics. :\

Glad you enjoyed them, though!


message 49: by Thomas (new)

Thomas | 53 comments Chad wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Chad: I agree I think this news killed this group, and another group I was in as well. It is a shame really."

I feel like even SW fans don't care much about the new Canon books, I k..."


I know myself and a few friends who are not keen on the new canon. I have read most of the new canon books but I am now very selective about which ones I buy and read. As has been stated in here already most have not been good. I view them as two different alternate realities. I prefer Legends so will focus on that but will delve into the new canon now and again.

I have just started a long slow chronological read of the Legends. It will include all novels and also include the comics(collected trade versions) and short stories that I own. It will take awhile because I read other things as well. A lot of this will be re-reads but there are some books I never read before. I also intend to complete them all. I make that point because the first time around I could not read the Bounty Hunter Wars series. I am not a fan of the author and his writing style and could not finish the first book the last time. But I will make sure to read it this time. I am currently reading Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void.


message 50: by Melanie (new)

Melanie | 1 comments I started that a few years ago. I’m just finishing the Jedi Apprentice series. I couldn’t get all the comics so I just read the Wookiepedia descriptions.


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