The Sundered Book Club discussion
Ashes of the Tyrant
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Ashes of the Tyrant - Finished the Book
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....Is Lorcan Farideh's familar now?
Coffeedave wrote: "....Is Lorcan Farideh's familar now?"There's a snake joke there that's just super low hanging fruit, so I'm going to leave it be :P.
Technically, no, because he doesn't have to do what Fari says like formal D&D familars do, and they are separate for great lengths of time. Realistically? He serves a lot of the same purposes as a familar does to the point that I think giving Fari a familar would hurt the story more than help it. In a lot of ways, Glyssa and Asmodeus treat Lorcan like the cambion likes to treat imps, ordering them around.I think that's the direct result of Lorcan being a co-protagonist of the story, instead of the distant lord we think of as Patrons. The D&D core lists the nine arch devils and demon lords as example Patrons. High ranking fae kings/queens. Elder gods. Level 17+ warlocks. Lower ranked beings like cambions or imps don't really come across as suggested Patrons in any game. Even the weakest suggested Patrons are balors and ancient (and thus powerful) hags.
Going by official stats of cambions and that sheet of Farideh's, its also worth noting that Farideh is one level higher than Lorcan (12 HD v 11 HD). Not that big of a difference; they're pretty much equals at this point. You don't think of Patrons or familars as -equals-. But that's exactly what's going on here. It creates an almost unique dynamic between the two. Lorcan is growing increasingly irrelevant as a Patron, but he still needs to maintain a relationship somehow with her.
Mod
Technically at this point,we're not completely in 5e yet. But soon.
Mod
I was also going to hint at more collectors appearing in the next book. This is not the end of Shetai and you'll meet another, Kulaga, and hear about a third. But at this point they're all below the archdevils because I still find 4e's version more compelling.
Shetai was also going to be the primary antagonist of the proto-book that became brimstone Angels
Erin wrote: "In 4e there were sources that suggested cambions as patrons. The flavor then was much more that a pact tied you magically to the plane, and the patron was kind of the conduit to that power (at least this has always been my jmpression and how I've presented it) instead of being the power of the patron itself. Lorcan's like the converter, not the source. True. I forgot about that - now that you mention it, 4e infernal warlocks got a lot of their power by exploring ancient ruins of tiefling empires as well, while that's clearly not the same case in 5e. 5e focuses more on a mentor-student relationship, and that's kind of what I was assuming here.
......
Risen Erinyes Invadiah for Patron 2016! *sets up campaign sign, marches in support* *cough* Okay, probably not happening, but the idea amuses me to no end.
Oh no. The freakshow Shetai asked Lorcan what drives the best ones to take the pact. The cambion finally managed the answer: Love. And since the cambions devil side seems to be shrivelling away due to the demons magic and she might soon not be able to channel power through him, could she (choosing one of several equally crappy options) take that one´s pact in order not to be helpless to defend those she loves? Her family first of all, Djerad Thymar and, of course, the cambion. It´s always been the shitting cambion, always will be, no matter how much you want to read something else, in my unhumble opinion...But in the end, I smell tragedy...she´ll know (being cleverer than both of them combined) what the cambion did (pact with Dahl, trapping Dahl) and what Dahl did (deliberately trying to kill Lorcan with the demons magic) so...
Even if the Lorcan would pull off some major epiphany (and maybe save her and/or those she loves - again!) she might still give up on him -finally- rather than forgive his latest evil stunts and then what? It´s hard to imagine her permanently being the warlock of some less conflicted freakshow devil like Shetai without stopping to be Farideh...
Dahl might live happily ever after with a woman that actually is a match for him and Farideh...could be a priestess of Selune? Hell, now I´ve made myself unhappy...I need to give up on the cliffhanger already until the next book is published...;)
On a side note: there´s a new series that also stars a devil (Lucifer himself actually) with psychological issues (at least he has his own professional psychotherapist..:P). It´s an adaptation of a fun comic book series but shown on Fox so who knows if it will be worth watching.
It could be that Faridah's wild teenage warlock years ends with this next book and should the series continue, it would continue with Faridah as a adult and as a Wizard..... With her lover Readra#TeamFaRaedra2016 .
on a side note, I was half expecting a flashback scene with Mehen in his youth, kicking ass, while Nitro was playing in the background. I've always seen him as a Elvan Metal fan, (or what humans call, Hair Metal).
Coffeedave wrote: "It could be that Faridah's wild teenage warlock years ends with this next book and should the series continue, it would continue with Faridah as a adult and as a Wizard..... With her lover Readra#..."
Mehen? Naw, he seems like he was too angsty as a hatchling for that. I gather he'd be more into shoegazer stuff - sure, he'd kick ass to metal like all the other Vayemniri, but in his own time he'd probably prefer to listen to the Smiths and contemplate his lot in life.
Mod
Sometimes people ask me about what music I listen to when I write. Here is a link to the Spotify playlist for Ashes of the Tyrant. (NB: I don't claim to have any great taste in music. This is kind of just an accumulation of songs that put my brain in the right character space).
https://open.spotify.com/user/1214408...
Mod
So is Dumuzi named after the Sumerian kings/god?
Mod
(Which is kind of awkward, because I forgot that I named Tam Zawad after the Hebrew version of the same god, Tammuz all the way back in "The Resurrection Agent" to parallel the Harlot's Inanna.)
I get really bored naming people. So I kind of tend to amuse myself.
Mehen is a minor snake god in Ancient Egypt who protects the sun. Also, it's the name of a game whose board is the shape of a coiled snake.
Uadjit is the cobra goddess who protects the king and represents Lower Egypt.
Tarhun, while not being one of mine, fits in very nicely here as he's a Hittite thunder god.
Also I forgot this one! I mentioned on Facebook while I was writing this that I buried a reference to Madam White Snake, a Chinese legend, in this book. It is sketchy and only points at the first half and was entirely about choosing a stinking name for Dahl's grandfather.
Sessaca is the White Snake. Lamhail is Xu Xian. In the story a man falls in love with a snake that has taken the shape of a woman. The surname Xu means "to allow" but Dahl's family's names are all Irish words. So I found the Irish word for "to grant" which is Lamháil. But I skipped the part where she floods a temple and gets rescued from a pagoda and all that--probably that's before Dahl's time and not his damned business.
Incidentally, Dahl's name comes from the Irish word for "blind" because I am dramatic. So his brothers are Bodhar ("deaf") and Thost ("silent")
I just finished the book xDDPoor Havilar ='/
Now that I thought she was going to have her happy ending.
About Dahl and Lorcan: I am with Havi when she says that neither of them are good enough for Farideh.
I think Lorcan actually shows more love to Fari than Dahl does, but his abusive behavior ruins everything in the end.
I didn't think about it before reading the posts here, but I do think Raedra is the best option! hahhahaha
#TeamRaedra2016
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Now for the questions:
D&D:
1.
The whole series made me want to play a tiefling warrior, because of Havilar.
This book made the dragonborn race more appealing to me.
2.
I didn't know the book was related to the Rage of Demons Adventure beforehand and I was already interested in both separately.
Everyone:
1.
The book defenetly made the dragonborn race more likable for me.
2.
Honestly, it did affect a little. I felt like the pace was slower than the previous books.
And I was actually expecting the battle against Gilgeam to happen in this book (I read the spoiler on Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide).
But I did enjoy the book and I am so excited for the next one that I already pre-ordered it on Amazon!! LOL
3.
I already Answered this one, I am Team Raedra!!
4.
I've always wanted to go to GenCon, unfortunately, I am a poor Brazilian Girl so GenCon is so far far way from me. =//
So I am not going =//
Sorry for my bad English.
Welcome to the fun zone! Your English is fine. It's much better then my Portuguese, that's for sure.
I just finished and have been posting in the step-by-step threads, so I'm just now seeing all of this. I thought I'd do Erin's questions!1. Did this book make you want to play anything new? A location? A character? A story point?
I've never played a Dragonborn, and never really had any interest in doing so until I read this book. I think you basically defined Dragonborn culture in the Realms with this book, and it's a really interesting, deep, and distinctive culture that could make for a wide variety of interesting characters at the table.
2. Did this book make you interested in the Rage of Demons adventure? Did you pick up the book because you were interested in that story arc?
Not really, beyond just following along with your story. I get that you were sort of setting up Troy Denning's now-cancelled book, but I'm more interested in your characters than those villains.
For everyone:
1. How did you feel about dragonborn coming in? Did your feelings change?
Vastly. I really didn't know anything about them, but I never got excited about them before now. Too alien to really tickle my fancy. They always seemed like some designer trying too hard to be cool...or something.
But not anymore. Now, they've got a nuanced, fascinating culture with a rich history.
2. This book had more elements dictated by the RPG team than the previous book. Do you feel like it affected your enjoyment (good or bad)?
For the most part, I thought you wove things together pretty well. I will say that I did feel like this book was being pulled in a lot of different directions, and kind of served more as a prelude to the future books than its own story. The prior two books were tighter, with a more distinct conclusion, than this book. From the outside, I can't tell whether that's because of the RPG teams interference, or just the way your story has to be told. If it's the former, then I'd say it negatively affected by enjoyment.
3.Since the conversation is already there: team Lorcan, Team Dahl, or something else?
Oh, Lorcan's a schmuck. Team Dahl all the way.
Linky --> http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloa..." Huh. Did not know that. Still missing the stuff to summon and bind Lorcan, mending, and sending spells, though she does only casts them as rituals, I guess. And did not know she had a couple of these others! She knows fire shield, so she can pretend to have the flaming wings of Asmodeus for a bit!
Brandon wrote: The interesting thing I think we're starting to see is just how much Farideh and Havilar aren't so much two sides of the same coin, but two mosaics that were created from different tile pieces that had all been combined. Both are so much their own unique character, but we see in each of them something that seems almost out of place, or more befitting of the other. In the case of Farideh's lack of a familiar, we have Havilar with two imps and a Nessian war hound at her beck and call. It brings to mind just how much Havi has progressively allowed Lorcan to be of assistance directly though her, rather than Fari, and how much more she's going to be willing to let him as time progresses.
Well, that's actually something I thought kind of fitting - hexblades, both in 3rd edition and 4th, ended up with familiars, while the warlock in both of those editions did not. Mind you, Havilar is a Fighter (I seem to remember that from the games we donated for). But from that angle, it kind of fit.
And, like Havilar said, does Farideh really need a familar with Lorcan to summon?