Japanese Light Novel Book Club discussion
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空ろの箱と零のマリア 1
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Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria - Buddy Read
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If you don't, I will be forced to remove this thread, and I'd rather not do that.
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Selena wrote: "Cris, please remove the links to the illegal copy of the book. It is against the rules of our group to share links and downloads to illegal copies of books, and is also against the law.
If you don..."
Fine, I'll remove the links since they don't really matter, as people can find copies of the novels on their own.
However, and I don't want to be annoying by quibbling about it (sorry if it's a bother), but I'm not sure what is on Baka-Tsuki is actually an illegal copy of the book. In my understanding, translations of books don't fall under the same copyright as the version in the original language.
On top of that, this novel has never been published in English by an official book publisher (after all, it is only a "fan translation" offered on the Internet for free), so at the moment the English translation may technically have no copyright at all. Or, even if it does have a copyright, it is probably owned by Baka-Tsuki webmasters, who are publishing a free online version. Of course, I might be wrong about the copyright laws since they're different based on country and I haven't studied them in detail. Well, you tell me, am I mistaken?
If you don..."
Fine, I'll remove the links since they don't really matter, as people can find copies of the novels on their own.
However, and I don't want to be annoying by quibbling about it (sorry if it's a bother), but I'm not sure what is on Baka-Tsuki is actually an illegal copy of the book. In my understanding, translations of books don't fall under the same copyright as the version in the original language.
On top of that, this novel has never been published in English by an official book publisher (after all, it is only a "fan translation" offered on the Internet for free), so at the moment the English translation may technically have no copyright at all. Or, even if it does have a copyright, it is probably owned by Baka-Tsuki webmasters, who are publishing a free online version. Of course, I might be wrong about the copyright laws since they're different based on country and I haven't studied them in detail. Well, you tell me, am I mistaken?
Cris N. wrote: " I might be wrong about the copyright laws since they're different based on country and I haven't studied them in detail. Well, you tell me, am I mistaken? "Selena is correct. translations and thus scanlations are illegal under international copyright law. see wikipedia scanlation topic.
furthermore, usually translations are covered under a copyright in the country of origin. that copyright would usually be honored internationally.
a scanlation is only legal if they received permission from the manga artist/publisher. i doubt that the scanlation website has that permission.
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And Cris, even if it wasn't illegal, I know I wouldn't feel right about using this group to share downloads, and that is why there is a rule in the group explicitly about it. I'd also like you to remove the mention of certain sites, as that too is against our group rules. I'll give you 24 hours to comply.
I don't mind if you discuss things that aren't available in the US; despite us being a US-based group, we have members in Japan and around the world who may be able to get a copy legally where they live. For all I know, you read Japanese and bought the original on the internet. That's why I'm not too picky about that.
Alex G wrote: Selena is correct. translations and thus scanlations are illegal under international copyright law. see wikipedia scanlation topic.
No wonder it's so confusing with the lack of legal action against scanlating groups (you see that reference to Lee Hye-Kyung in that article).
a scanlation is only legal if they received permission from the manga artist/publisher.
I did think that should usually be the case. The reason I had a misconception though, is because I've heard of some authors in certain European countries who have had some problems with publishers who believed that they owned the copyright to that work entirely once it was published. It seems there's sometimes controversies about different editions and translations published by different publishers.
i doubt that baka-tsuki has that permission.
Although it's possible that some works have permission, I guess it's safe to assume that most don't. So yeah, we should work under that assumption.
No wonder it's so confusing with the lack of legal action against scanlating groups (you see that reference to Lee Hye-Kyung in that article).
a scanlation is only legal if they received permission from the manga artist/publisher.
I did think that should usually be the case. The reason I had a misconception though, is because I've heard of some authors in certain European countries who have had some problems with publishers who believed that they owned the copyright to that work entirely once it was published. It seems there's sometimes controversies about different editions and translations published by different publishers.
i doubt that baka-tsuki has that permission.
Although it's possible that some works have permission, I guess it's safe to assume that most don't. So yeah, we should work under that assumption.
Selena wrote: I'd also like you to remove the mention of Baka-Tsuki, as that too is against our group rules.
Darn, you've got a lot of technicalities you need to fulfill.
And Cris, even if it wasn't illegal, I know I wouldn't feel right about using this group to share downloads, and that is why there is a rule in the group explicitly about it.
Yes, I read some comments yesterday about that. I realize that you want to avoid reference to scanlations in order to support official translations & publications. But to be honest, while I would be happy if novels as good as "Utsuro no Hako" got an official publication, I doubt it's ever going to happen because publishers often seem to be avoiding novels in the same situation as this one (totally scanlated, and rather well-done at that, not to mention copies shared in so many places). I've heard there's some excellent light novels that haven't been translated by fans simply because they're more difficult to translate than the typical ones; those are probably the ones official publishers should try to focus their efforts on in my opinion.
Darn, you've got a lot of technicalities you need to fulfill.
And Cris, even if it wasn't illegal, I know I wouldn't feel right about using this group to share downloads, and that is why there is a rule in the group explicitly about it.
Yes, I read some comments yesterday about that. I realize that you want to avoid reference to scanlations in order to support official translations & publications. But to be honest, while I would be happy if novels as good as "Utsuro no Hako" got an official publication, I doubt it's ever going to happen because publishers often seem to be avoiding novels in the same situation as this one (totally scanlated, and rather well-done at that, not to mention copies shared in so many places). I've heard there's some excellent light novels that haven't been translated by fans simply because they're more difficult to translate than the typical ones; those are probably the ones official publishers should try to focus their efforts on in my opinion.
What they are translating is basically whatever is popular on crunchy/funi/hulu in the west after it becomes an anime, and has no correlation to the quality of the fan translation or it's availability. Just recently we ran into the problem where the official translation of Girls in a Dungeon was worse than the fan one put out earlier. You also have series like Log Horizon and Overlord that were very competently translated that got grabbed, and heck Gifting which has it's first episode airing in like 5-6 days just got DMCA'd yesterday which means there is some communication about the books getting licensed. So translation quality or completion has nothing to do with it, the main thing that matters is how popular the anime is in the west.
Aaron wrote: "What they are translating is basically whatever is popular on crunchy/funi/hulu in the west after it becomes an anime, and has no correlation to the quality of the fan translation or it's availabil..."
Whoah, some official translations are worse than fan translations? That kind of sucks, they could at least have used the fan translations as a reference to help them do it even better. I've actually never heard of this problem before, but that's probably because I usually only read the light novels I think are among the highest quality.
Whoah, some official translations are worse than fan translations? That kind of sucks, they could at least have used the fan translations as a reference to help them do it even better. I've actually never heard of this problem before, but that's probably because I usually only read the light novels I think are among the highest quality.
Selena wrote: "I'd also like you to remove the mention of , as that too is against our group rules."Done in my post.
Cris N. wrote: "Aaron wrote: "What they are translating is basically whatever is popular on crunchy/funi/hulu in the west after it becomes an anime, and has no correlation to the quality of the fan translation or ..."Some fan translations are really darn good. Generally official translations have it a bit harder too, people are more willing to accept literal translations in fan translations but in official ones they want it to be written like an English book. This means that the translator in many ways also has to be a good writer not just good at grammar this can be especially problematic in a more comedy focused series.
Cris N. wrote: "Selena wrote: I'd also like you to remove the mention of , as that too is against our group rules.Darn, you've got a lot of technicalities you need to fulfill. "
Selena is not invoking a mere technicality. the rule is there b/c we want to do our part to keep people from unfairly profiting from a mangaka's hard work. furthermore, in general, mangakas get a lot more control over their copyright than US comic book artists have (see the preface of Manga: The Complete Guide); consequently, we shouldn't view a scanlation as merely fighting against big publishers who are leeching off of the hard-working mangakas.
also, mangakas work really hard at it. (see Manga: Masters of the Art). i wouldn't want the hard work that I put into my novel (if i ever publish one) to be translated w/o my permission and profited off w/o getting any compensation.
Aaron wrote: "Cris N. wrote: "Aaron wrote: "What they are translating is basically whatever is popular on crunchy/funi/hulu in the west after it becomes an anime, and has no correlation to the quality of the fan..."
I have to admit, I prefer translations to be as smooth as possible myself. Actually, I like it how some translators keep certain cultural things like Japanese honorifics in the text (this varies with both fan and official translations), but I do want the writing to flow smoothly. There have been some novels I've read that had awkward and stiff writing and it really made the novel less enjoyable than it should have been.
I have to admit, I prefer translations to be as smooth as possible myself. Actually, I like it how some translators keep certain cultural things like Japanese honorifics in the text (this varies with both fan and official translations), but I do want the writing to flow smoothly. There have been some novels I've read that had awkward and stiff writing and it really made the novel less enjoyable than it should have been.
Alex G wrote: also, mangakas work really hard at it. (see Manga: Masters of the Art). i wouldn't want the hard work that I put into my novel (if i ever publish one) to be translated w/o my permission and profited off w/o getting any compensation.
Yes, I agree, usually authors would want to make sure they can income from the sale of translations as well. However, there are exceptions to the rule, because sometimes authors who feel that their work has little chance of getting translated are happy to see fan translations done, even if they don't get any payment for it. For example - and I'd have to double-check to make sure of this because it's been a long time since I looked a their website - I think Hiro Arikawa actually gave Melithiel permission to translate the "Toshokan Sensou" series of novels.
It would be nice if this whole problem could be avoided with a bit more organization and cooperation. People who do fan translations really just need a convenient outlet for their work. Ideally we could have publishing companies that replace scanlating websites by making agreements with willing/interested authors, and then selling fan translations as low-cost ebooks and thus giving a bit of compensation to the authors as well. Unfortunately, probably no such thing will happen anytime soon if ever.
Yes, I agree, usually authors would want to make sure they can income from the sale of translations as well. However, there are exceptions to the rule, because sometimes authors who feel that their work has little chance of getting translated are happy to see fan translations done, even if they don't get any payment for it. For example - and I'd have to double-check to make sure of this because it's been a long time since I looked a their website - I think Hiro Arikawa actually gave Melithiel permission to translate the "Toshokan Sensou" series of novels.
It would be nice if this whole problem could be avoided with a bit more organization and cooperation. People who do fan translations really just need a convenient outlet for their work. Ideally we could have publishing companies that replace scanlating websites by making agreements with willing/interested authors, and then selling fan translations as low-cost ebooks and thus giving a bit of compensation to the authors as well. Unfortunately, probably no such thing will happen anytime soon if ever.
Cris N. wrote: "People who do fan translations really just need a convenient outlet for their work. Ideally we could have publishing companies that replace scanlating websites by making agreements with willing/interested authors, and then selling fan translations as low-cost ebooks and thus giving a bit of compensation to the authors as well. Unfortunately, probably no such thing will happen anytime soon if ever. "it won't happen unless you make it happen.
low-cost ebooks of scanlations is a good idea. you should think about it more. just a few price points thru amazon self-publishing:
* 30% royalty rate to the author on books priced < $2.99
* 70% royalty rate to the author on books priced >=$2.99
as you probably know, hardcopy manga sells for ~$7.99 - $12.99
Alex G wrote: it won't happen unless you make it happen. low-cost ebooks of scanlations is a good idea. you should think about it more. just a few price points thru amazon self-publishing..."
I suppose it is a good idea, and there seems to be various other websites besides Amazon that you could use (if you don't make your own), like Smashwords. I might even go through with trying to start something myself at some point in the future, but right now I'm too unprepared to do anything of the sort because I have little knowledge or experience with publishing.
I suppose it is a good idea, and there seems to be various other websites besides Amazon that you could use (if you don't make your own), like Smashwords. I might even go through with trying to start something myself at some point in the future, but right now I'm too unprepared to do anything of the sort because I have little knowledge or experience with publishing.
Well, it just so happens that I finished reading this series today. Here's my review for whoever is interested: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Japanese Light Novel Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Manga: The Complete Guide (other topics)Manga: Masters of the Art (other topics)
"Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria" (in English: "The Empty Box and The Zeroth Maria") is a light novel series written by Eiji Mikage. Here's the Goodreads page for it: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
Synopsis: Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria, or The Empty Box and The Zeroth Maria, tells the story of Kazuki Hoshino, who is almost madly attached to his everyday life, and his antagonist Aya Otonashi, who suddenly transfers into his class at the end of the school year—for no less than the 13,118th time. Without hesitation, she announces her intent to “break” him. Kazuki's struggle to defend his everyday life begins, and the many secrets it is built on start to come to light.
Also, here's something you might want to know about the series if you want to know about what drives it (I'm putting it as a spoiler because you're supposed to be completely ignorant of this if you haven't read volume 1): (view spoiler)[ A powerful supernatural being named "O" is giving out the magical wish-granting boxes, and this is what causes all the strange events that interfere with Kazuki's life. They're also the reason that Maria is involved, who wants to hunt down "O". Very bizarre and interesting things happen because the people who get the boxes are really messed up psychologically. (hide spoiler)]
It's very fun to read and very interesting as a mystery fiction too.
Reading Schedule:
I don't think I can set a solid reading schedule for this. Anyone who wants to join can talk about it with me or others here as they're reading the series. Personally, I've read the first 4 volumes of the series and am currently reading the 5th volume.