Brianna character flaws

[Janice]

Why does Brianna remain such a selfish, self centered character throughout this book and in later books in the series? Other characters manage to learn and grow, but she doesn't. I have found it hard to continue with it even though the plot, historic nuggets, and other character are interesting.

[Mrsbooks]

I once felt the same way. I found Brianna whiny, entitled, selfish and self centered. But I felt she grew up in the later books. I'd go as far as to say I quite like her now.

I was always a little disappointed in her character. She didn't interest me and I felt like I was being cheated; like she was supposed to be interesting but wasn't. I was never invested in her and Roger's relationship either. The way they started, I just didn't see any chemistry or romance. I like them as a couple now though.

[Peggy]

So much time to be selfish and self centered amid doing the hunting for her family, spinning, weaving and sewing clothing, not to mention cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, caring for a young child, etc.

[tweetie_K]

Honestly, she just seemed like she was a lot more trouble than she was worth. I didn't see what Roger loved about her, since he was such a pleasant character. I think being headstrong can be a good quality in a character, but its a fine line to walk. In Brianna's case it just turned into nagging, bitchiness, and borderline ungratefulness for a lot of things. She was also an odd mix. She was painfully entitled and unfortunately stubborn (not in the noble, self-sacrificing way Jaime was), and could be so arrogant, but then at the same time she still referred to Frank as "Daddy" and Clair as "Mama" as a grown ass adult. It's a small thing, but it bothered me tremendously.
Being headstrong wasn't admirable in her case, just misguided and selfish. Like when she insisted that she had to tell William that she was his sister, even knowing that it would ruin plans and social norms that had been in play his entire life, when she had no right to, but because it would make HER feel better (luckily Jaime bribed her into not doing it).
It really is a shame, because I LOVE Jaime and Claire. It's unfortunate that their daughter, the product of this amazing love, the one Jaime gave Claire up for, turned out to be so unpleasant. She did get slightly better in the last couple books, though.

[Sage]

Kelli wrote: "Honestly, she just seemed like she was a lot more trouble than she was worth. I didn't see what Roger loved about her, since he was such a pleasant character. I think being headstrong can be a good..."

And may I ask, what is the proper name to call ones parents as an adult?

My father has been gone a long time, but he is and always will be Daddy to me.

[Sage]

Brianna was only 19 when she lost the father she loved, found out about Jamie, and followed her mother through time...a lot to handle at any age. Bree may have been angry and misguided in the beginning...young, confused, raped, pregnant, without Roger, and in a strange world...but she did eventually accept Jamie and who she was.

I like Bree and Roger, and I like that they are not the same as Jamie and Claire. I think because they are both from the same time, unlike Jamie and Claire, they look at their situation differently.

[Jeanine]

Agree with you Sage

[tweetie_K]

Sage wrote: "Brianna was only 19 when she lost the father she loved, found out about Jamie, and followed her mother through time...a lot to handle at any age. Bree may have been angry and misguided in the begin..."

I definitely agree that she had been through a lot, and the way she acted had good reason for it in the beginning (the stuff you pointed out is, of course, very difficult for anyone). I just found that even years after Jemmy was born she was still a little difficult to swallow, in my personal opinion. I didn't find I liked her really until books 7 and 8 (which given the lengths of 4,5, and 6, was quite a long time to wait).

As for the "daddy" thing, I would think it just as odd to find an adult still calling their mom "mommy". It's the same thing, though maybe people don't think about it since the former is so commonplace. But I've never been a daddy's girl in any way, so I readily admit this is an "it's not you, it me" thing.

[Mrsbooks]

It's a me thing as well. I always cringe when I hear an adult call their parents Mommy or Daddy. It's icky to me :)

I think part of why I found Brianna annoying was because she wasn't immature like today's youth but at the same time she was still incredibly immature. It felt a bit like a conundrum. I find this difficult to explain.

I understand her hang ups on finding out daddy wasn't daddy, meeting knew daddy, getting thrown back in time, etc. Getting raped, I can only imagine what I'd feel like going through that. But I didn't like her BEFORE these things. I found her whiny and immature. I think seeing these traits in her and not liking her before the shit hit the fan (so to speak) colored how I saw her when she went through these things later on. She definitely didn't endear herself to me until much later in the series and even then, even though I like her, I don't love her character.

[Janet]

I have to chuckle, because (and I am quite certain many folks will not agree w/me) I found Claire to be just as selfish and whiny in Outlander.

I recall vividly where she tried to wheedle Jamie into not doing something only to have it back fire on her badly. Sorry folks, I'm not getting up and digging out the book to find the quote.

Claire has done a lot of growing up over the years, and so has her daughter. It took a while before I could actually sort of like Brianna. No, I don't really understand what Roger sees in her, but then, I don't understand what she sees in him, either. (And I particularly like Roger Mac...go figure)

One of the things I like about the entire series (and this includes all the side series) is the way Diana's characters grow. They are all multidimensional and they all are more than the reader initially thinks. Even the ones I don't like.

That is what keeps me coming back to the books.

[Sage]

One of the things I like about the entire series (and this includes all the side series) is the way Diana's characters grow. They are all multidimensional and they all are more than the reader initially thinks. Even the ones I don't like.

That is what keeps me coming back to the books...."

I agree. It really doesn't matter if the reader likes a particular character or not, what matters is that the character adds interest and perspective to the story.

When we first met Brianna she acted exactly like what she was, a spoiled, selfish, 19 year old who thought she knew more then anyone else. But she has shown resilience and growth.

[Terri]

Well I can sure tell that many of the contributors to this discussion are not from the US South. Y'all would spend most of your life being icked out, because traditionally regardless of your age parents are called Mama and Daddy in the region. It is slowly evolving so that there are now a lot of Moms and Dads, too, but listening to what a person calls his/her parents is a good indicator of whether s/he comes from a Southern or transplant family.

Regarding Bree, I guess I'm a bit more forgiving than some of the other contributors. Early on, Bree frustrated me with her reluctance to commit to Roger but I understood it. She had gone the through the loss of the 2 most important people in her life and she did not want to become close enough to another to feel that lost again. Not practical, not realistic, but human. Later in DoA, FC, and ABOSAA, her biggest issue is that she has never resigned herself to life in 18th century. She functions but she never adapts.

[Penny]

I think she has adapted well to living in the 18th century, she is putting to use her engineering training to help make things better for everyone. She has committed to Roger and is an excellent mother. Yes she was selfish and self centered when we first met her, but she has grown up in a tense, strained atmosphere, she adores Frank, but no matter how hard Claire might have tried to make things "normal", the feelings just weren't there.
I didn't like her much at first I have to admit, but she has adapted and grown with the books, and I find her a strong, likable character now

[Sage]

Terri wrote: "Later in DoA, FC, and ABOSAA, her biggest issue is that she has never resigned herself to life in 18th century. She functions but she never adapts...."

I could never fault Brianna with not adapting to 18th century life because I highly doubt that I would myself. Even Claire didn't adapt easily, it was only her love for Jamie that finally won her over.

[Terri]

Penny wrote: "I think she has adapted well to living in the 18th century, she is putting to use her engineering training to help make things better for everyone. She has committed to Roger and is an excellent mo..."

I think we are using the word "adapt" differently. Perhaps "resigned" might be a better choice. No, I already used that one. how about "adjust" ? I actually see all her inventions as one of the signs of what I'm trying to convey. She is trying to make the 17th century more like the world she is used to and good many of the troubles or attitudes that people complain about are a result of applying a 20th century perspective, etc to the world she is living in. It's like the exchange student that is living in a new country with a new family but instead of adapting to the new culture and norms keeps trying (both consciously and unconsciously) to change everything to be more like "home". Essentially behavior that is a very common, but ineffective way of coping. It's not selfishness, arrogance, or whining. It's culture shock

[Terri]

Another thing to consider, is the Diana uses Bree to illustrate the universal challenges of being a mother. All of us that have experienced parenting young children, especially staying home with young children (I've been both a WOHM and SAHM) can agree that there are a lot of moments of frustration and drudgery that are compounded by the total incomprehension of a spouse of the sheer effort it takes to complete (and redo) some of the most basic household tasks. Diana does a good job of showing it, but to be most effective (especially the incomprehension aspect) it needs to be part of the dialogue, and that is going to come across as nagging, bitching, etc...

I recently re-read Fiery Cross and could so relate to the scene where Roger came home on Christmas Eve after being a way with the militia and he is so eager to be home and have some loving and Bree quickly turns from Jekyll to Hyde. The poor man is trying to figure out why she's upset - He didn't realize it was Christmas Eve? He shook dirt on the floor? The smart guy keeps his cool and gets her talking and discovers how much she missed him and amid trying to keep things going while he was gone, had tried to make the house extra special for his homecoming. Then he was so interested in jumping her bones he didn't notice any of her efforts and had the audacity to belittle (inadvertently) her job as homemaker!

It's possible to read that scene and think, "Wow! What a psychotic bitch!" -- especially since the episode is told from Roger's perspective. However, if Brianna had narrated the scene, people might have thought "What an insensitive prick!" What I especially liked about it though was that they did talk things out instead of just arguing or reacting; both made an effort understand the other's perspective; and while neither had acted in an *ideal* manner both realize the other's actions/reactions came from a place of love and respect.

[Sage]

Good insight Terri.

[Mrsbooks]

Terri wrote:I actually see all her inventions as one of the signs of what I'm trying to convey. She is trying to make the 17th century more like the world she is used to ."

I thought the same thing as well. I think Claire's inner dialogue at one point brings up how Roger and Bree don't belong there. But I can't recall if that was earlier on or later.

[Janet]

This is Diana's skill as an author - she (in some cases) drags the reader into the world and shows every detail. One of the complaints I've heard about Fiery Cross is the VERY LONG first chapter. What most folks don't get is that chapter is a very skillful presentation of exactly what went on from multiple POV for a specific period of time. Majority of writers could not pull that off.

Bree and Roger living in 17th Century...started out as one thing and ended up being something totally different. There have been multiple reality checks for these two in particular over the course of the books. I have to hand it to them, they are tougher than anyone first realized - even themselves.

It would be so easy (for some writers) to turn that situation into fluff. Diana brought it to life in all its ugly glory.

I've often said that this series is best described as going up into Grandma's attic and reading the journals tucked away in the trunks. The journals give the full story - what is recalled around the family table probably doesn't as it gets diluted over the years with all the retelling.

"Bree trying to make the 17th century more like the world she is used to" -- I think that is part of it but it is also that she knows there is a way to do something and she works to make that happen. She relies on her brain then her brawn. This is no shrinking violet waiting for someone else to save her or fix something. She doesn't have that luxury.

Reminds me of Claire and her penicillin experiments.

At the end of the day, perhaps what I appreciate most about this work is that it doesn't treat the reader or the characters as mindless pawns. The bar is high and if you are willing to stick it out and work to get to the finish line, the trip can be amazing.

(Note to Author: Please hurry up on the next book! )

[Jeanine]

Janet
You said it better than I ever could have
Well done. I know not everyone likes these books and that's okay
I love them and wish she would hurry with the next book but so fast that the story is missing anything

[Jeanne]

Have you see the TV show and if so do you think the characters are close to whats in the book? The relationship between Bri and Rodger seem different.. I think they wrote her to to much less whinny and selfish in TV show.

[Janet]

Jeanne wrote: "Have you see the TV show and if so do you think the characters are close to whats in the book? The relationship between Bri and Rodger seem different.. I think they wrote her to to much less whinny..."
No, I've made a conscious effort NOT to watch the show. I do not want what I've read to be diluted thru someone else's POV. Unfortunately, that is the problem when good books (or anything, really) is made into a film or for TV - there are too many cooks in the kitchen and everyone's agenda and POV gets added to the pot and what comes out usually misses the original author's mark. I have a friend - who introduced me to the books - who loves the TV version mostly because she has forgotten what she read. And she's happy with that. I'm happy reading the snippets Diana posts and waiting for the next book to come out.

[Jeanne]

Its easy to forget everything that is in the books as they are so long and there are so many. I do enjoy the TV show although I did not expect to.. like you find they miss the authors mark and change too much. But I think Diane has enough say to keep the TV show as close to the book as possible... I just love her charters and love seeing them come to life.

[Nikki]

Sage wrote: "Brianna was only 19 when she lost the father she loved, found out about Jamie, and followed her mother through time...a lot to handle at any age. Bree may have been angry and misguided in the begin..."
I agree. As the mom of five teens and young adults, I understand the selfishness and petty angle of Bree...it's just where she is on her path to adulthood. Let's not forget that she is the product of the 60's where EVERYONE was all about self-involvement and throw all of the issues that you touched upon into the mix. I think she developed into a wonderful character once all the dust settled.

[Stephanie]

I’m almost finished with Fiery Cross, and I marvel that Briana adjusts as she does. Keeping things going with no modern conveniences is no joke! While I LOVE the books and the characters, I actually think it’s unrealistic. Most 20th or 21st century women would be miserable. No hot showers, bugs, no screens, boiling laundry, spinning?! No thanks! And incidentally, if we’re talking about a selfish character, Claire is it. She abandoned her 19-year-old daughter just after she lost her father, and accepted she would never see her again! Unimaginable and selfish! But I have forgiven Claire and think she’s awesome anyway.

[Janet]

I have to chuckle at what I'm about to post, but here goes...

Bree is not one of my favorite characters but I do have to say she is the product of all 3 of her parents. The more you get to know her, the more you will understand.

Claire is not exactly at the top of my list, either, but I have to give her credit for not leaving her daughter on her own without knowing the kid could take care of herself. And, if you think about it, you will see I'm right. Immaturity and selfishness aside, Bree could function on her own...she did manage to find her way back to mom, right?

Claire lived up to her obligations and then, selfish or not, chose to live her life her way. Look at it from her POV. She'd left the man she loved to go to a man she may have still loved, but in a marriage that was more of a battleground than loving, raised a child and earned her doctor's credentials in a time where women were not wanted anywhere other than at home. She did what she was obligated to do, and did it well. Or, at least as well as she could.

When was she supposed to have her turn? If she had no path back to Jamie, I would expect her to live a long and less than happy life remembering a love and a marriage that gave her great joy. Nothing could ever fill that void, so she would have had, at a reasonable minimum 30 years of meh.

But, she found a path. Not sure it would work, she made the attempt and succeeded. Not sure what she would find, she made the attempt to return to the only man she really loved. Who would blame her?

Bree changing times is an interesting exercise in what a person can do if they want it badly enough. Or don't have any other option. I agree, most modern women (or men for that matter) don't have what it takes to survive long without a microwave and wifi. But I think that when it comes down to actually living or dying, quite a few would figure it out - quickly.

Both Bree and Roger manage quite well, all things considered. They were at least smart enough to know what they didn't know and to learn as they went. Same as Claire.

It's amazing how powerful the instinct to survive is.

Unrealistic? Well, maybe, but I think given Bree's education and intelligence not nearly as unrealistic as you might think. She is, as I said, the product of all 3 parents.

[Allison ☾]

Brianna is a product of all 3 parents. This is how I see this character:

I do believe she was very spoiled and selfish at first. She grew up watching Claire and Frank's cold/cordial marital discourse. I'm sure she carried some resentment for Claire because of Frank, before she matured and understood why things are the way they are. Claire and Frank being intellectual people, encouraged her to be independent in her studies and her future. Then on the other hand you have Roger and Jamie who came to her (later in life) with the Alpha protectiveness that she didn't quite understand how to handle, having never had someone make choices for her before. She rebelled against this until she realized they do these things out of love for her.

Do I love Brianna or Roger? Not at all really. But I do hope to see them grow.