Divergent (Divergent, #1) Divergent discussion


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Conflict, Climaxes, & Resolutions in Divergent (Spoilers)

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message 1: by Ali (last edited Dec 07, 2015 07:58AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Hi everyone. In this discussion we can talk about internal and external conflicts in Divergent. First we can list a bunch of conflicts for a character and then we can figure out that character's biggest external conflict and internal conflict. Let's start with Tris.


message 2: by Marie-Helene (new)

Marie-Helene I think that at the beginning of the book, Tris goes through an internal conflict. She doesn't know what faction to chose at her ceremony. Should she betray her family's faction and chose her own path or chose her family's faction and betray who she is.


message 3: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali That's definitely a big one.


message 4: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Another internal conflict is that she has trouble fitting in with the Dauntless in the beginning.


Aaron Chu-Carroll Tris and Al had the one major conflict, when Al tried to fit in, and Tris doesn accept that, which ultimately leads to his death. This conflict was a very major turning point, when you realized the harshness that Tris had used.


message 6: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali She had an internal conflict when she was trying to figure out how she felt about Tobias.


message 7: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Yeah I would say that an internal conflict for Tris was that she was unable to forgive.


Mcmeki Especially that she can't forgive herself for what she did to will


message 9: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali I think that Tris' major internal conflict is that she is unable to forgive anyone, including herself. She is unable to forgive Al, which may have led to his death. Also, Tris is unable to forgive herself because she killed Will. She knows that she had to do it in order to live and Will was under a simulation but his death still haunts her.


message 10: by Marie-Helene (last edited Dec 09, 2015 07:41AM) (new)

Marie-Helene I think that Tris's major internal conflict is that she wants to fit but she really is so different from all the others because she is divergent. This really sets her apart from the rest of the Dauntless faction, even tough they don't know that she is divergent, when all she wants to do is fit in.


message 11: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Her divergence doesn't just make her not fit with the Dauntless faction, but any faction in their society. Divergence sets her apart from all people who aren't divergent.


Aaron Chu-Carroll I think Tris's main internal conflict is just wrapping her head around what is happening. She's lived this life for years, but now everything is changing, and she is struggling to find out if it is for better or for worse.


message 13: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Those are huge one's. I think that the main one is being divergent because the other conflicts happen because she is divergent. Does any agree?


message 14: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Should we move on to the next character?


Aaron Chu-Carroll Yea, I think it is hard for her to deal with being divergent, but the harder part would be keeping it a secret.


message 16: by Marie-Helene (new)

Marie-Helene I agree with you; Tris's divergence is really the conflict that makes everything else happen in the book.


message 17: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Tomorrow we can move on to Tobias/Four


Georgia Carrino I think Tris does have trouble dealing with her Divergent-ness, but I think she always knew that something about her was different. She didn´t fit in her faction or with her peers, and she never REALLY felt selfless. She never thought she belonged in one particular faction.


message 19: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Tris' biggest external conflict is the war that started on Abnegation. She needed to protect her family and her friends from the soldiers under the simulation shooting everyone. This is a huge problem for Tris and many other people.


message 20: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali There really isn't much of an argument for that one.


message 21: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Let's move on to Tobias. I think his biggest internal and external conflict is with his father, Marcus. The internal conflict is that Marcus is horrible to him so he has to hate his own father. The external conflict is that Marcus would beat Tobias up. I definitely think that's his biggest problem.


message 22: by Marie-Helene (new)

Marie-Helene I think that another one of Tris's internal conflicts is her fear of the simulations in the Dauntless faction. She needs to pass them to get into the faction but she's scared to do so. AN external conflict is the factionless people. Tris needs to make sure that she gets into the Dauntless faction otherwise she will lead a horrible life.


Aaron Chu-Carroll I think that the simulations in general are the greatest conflict, because her tester (four) is the only person who knows her secret, and he must make sure nobody finds out. This knowledge puts pressure on both Tris and Four, and I think it is both internal and external.


Georgia Carrino Ali wrote: "Let's move on to Tobias. I think his biggest internal and external conflict is with his father, Marcus. The internal conflict is that Marcus is horrible to him so he has to hate his own father. The..."

Isn't that his external conflict because it is between Tobias and another person? But I DO think that it ALSO is kind of internal conflict because his father's harshness towards him ruined his mind and personality, and eventually became one of his fears. I think it is also that he kind of sees himself in his father, but never wants to become like him. And it is internal BECAUSE he is HE doesn't want HIMSELF to become like his father, or he is essentially fighting with himself.


message 25: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Georgia wrote: "Ali wrote: "Let's move on to Tobias. I think his biggest internal and external conflict is with his father, Marcus. The internal conflict is that Marcus is horrible to him so he has to hate his own..."

I mean that Tobias' external conflict with his father leads to his internal conflict. His father beating him up is an external conflict, which then relates to how Tobias' would have never wanted to hate father but he does because of Marcus' harshness ans torture.


Georgia Carrino Okay, but how is hating his father an internal conflict? An internal conflict is something he experiences with himself, and I DO think Marcus CAUSED his internal conflict, but hating him isn't it. He wants to forget his father and he tries to and that might be his internal conflict, or what I said before, but hating his dad isn't it.


message 27: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Yes it sort of is because he has to live with his father when he hates him. He doesn't want to feel this hatred for his father but he has to because of the way Marcus treats him. That is a conflict he has with HIMSELF so it is an internal conflict. Yes, it's not a big one but it leads to even bigger internal AND external conflicts.


Aaron Chu-Carroll I see both sides, it's an internal conflict because he hates his father, but he really doesn't want to hate him. But it's external because well, he does hate his father.


message 29: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali EXACTLY!!


message 30: by Marie-Helene (new)

Marie-Helene I think that Tobias hating his father is an internal conflict but it also is not. Tobias hating his father alone is not an internal conflict but attached to another simillar issue that Tobias has through the story it would be an internal conflict.


message 31: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Yes. The internal conflict is not that Tobias hates his father. It's that he doesn't want to have to feel this way.


Georgia Carrino Ohhhh I see your point now


message 33: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali So I think that the climax is when the war starts and the Abnegation are dying. That whole section is the climax I think. There isn't really a resolution to it though... what does everybody think?


message 34: by Marie-Helene (new)

Marie-Helene I agree with you that the climax is when the war starts and I also think that while there maybe no resolution in this book there may be one in the coming books


message 35: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali The resolution of that war never really happens. In the end of the series there will probably be a big resolution.


Aaron Chu-Carroll Yea, many of the conflict never actually get resolved, which is odd, ecause it makes it unclear what they really are fighting for.


Aaron Chu-Carroll because*


message 38: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Yes!


Georgia Carrino Ali wrote: "The resolution of that war never really happens. In the end of the series there will probably be a big resolution."

I agree that the climax is when the Dauntless kill the Abnegation, but I do think it is resolved. Most of the Abnegation are killed, the ones that survive make it to Amity, the Dauntless are no longer controlled, and they decide on where they are going and who they are fighting for. Not necessarily a happy ending to the book, but it is a resolution. However, the war is never really resolved in Divergent, and that is the BEGINNING of the climax for the whole series. But, it is not the most intense point in the entire series.

That is my opinion on the subject.


message 40: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali I agree with that.


Aaron Chu-Carroll I don't consider that a resolution, the problem wasn't solved with genocide, it was just... set aside, but there are still people who believe in the Abnegation and would continue that fight.


message 42: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali The ending is very complicated!!


Georgia Carrino Aaron wrote: "I don't consider that a resolution, the problem wasn't solved with genocide, it was just... set aside, but there are still people who believe in the Abnegation and would continue that fight."

Well, it depends on what you would consider the climax. If you consider the start of the war the climax, that is another thing, because that is not resolved in Divergent (the first book). I consider the attack on Abnegation the climax, and so I think that it is resolved when the Dauntless stop attacking Abnegation. Also, it wasn't set aside because Abnegation was basically destroyed, and the only survivors went to Amity, and at the start of the war, there were no factions! The faction system was destroyed by then.


message 44: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali I don't really think that was a resolution. The Erudite and Dauntless traitors never really stopped the attack, because it kept going in Insurgent. The really isn't a resolution at all I think, at least in the first book.


message 45: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali And only the Abnegation and Dauntless factions were destroyed. Candor, Amity, and definitely the Erudite are never destroyed. Yes, there is a lot of chaos in those factions after the war, but they are not destroyed, at least in the first book.


message 46: by Daniela (new)

Daniela Sewards I agree. I think that what Georgia is saying is true but I also think that though the climax is not fully resolved and left unclear, the other books continue on the topic and resolve it as they go on


message 47: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Yeah, I agree with Dani.


message 48: by Daniela (new)

Daniela Sewards I think that the book is left unclear on some notes, but resolves the smaller details that the author was zoning in on.


Georgia Carrino I see what you are saying, but I think that the fact that they started being mind controlled and when Tris finds out what is going on is the beginning of the climax. If we are just talking about the first book, I think the resolution is when they make their way to Amity. Yes, that's not really a resolution, but it is the closest thing in the first book.

But if you are including ALL the books, then Dani and Ali are correct.


message 50: by Esther (new)

Esther What would be the solution if beatrice decides to join the dauntless faction but must keep her divergence or identity?


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