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The Well-Educated Mind: A Guide to the Classical Education You Never Had
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The New Well Educated Mind

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Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Susan Wise Bauer has just announced her The Well-Educated Mind: Expanded and Updated

She's added a science section which might be really interesting. I'm not going to worry about it now but we might want to think about how it changes our challenges, if at all.

Looks like fun though!


message 2: by Sandy (new) - added it

Sandy Oh. Sounds enticing. I'm glad I haven't bought a copy yet. I will get the new one!


Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Sandy wrote: "Oh. Sounds enticing. I'm glad I haven't bought a copy yet. I will get the new one!"

Oh, lucky you! Usually I resist new and improved, but this one, with the extra section, just might break this tradition.

Here is a deal, Sandy, until December 13th for 30% off: http://peacehillpress.com/current-off...


Kenia Sedler (keniasedler) | 6 comments Besides the obvious addition of the science section (hooray!!), upon a closer comparison between the two editions I realized Bauer has added 4 new reads. These new additions are:

1) Novel: "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy
2) Autobiography: "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou
3) Poetry: "New and Selected Poems" by Mary Oliver
4) Poetry: "The Apple Trees at Olema: New and Selected Poems" by Robert Hass

She also changed the version of Frederick Douglass's autobiography. Apparently he rewrote it 3 times. Bauer now lists his first version, rather than his third, which changes the chronological placement of the book within the list.

The "Movie Versions of the Plays" was also updated to account for available versions on Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. She claims that most of them can be watched on YouTube as well. So that's a highly useful update, in my opinion.

She also updated recommended editions to include eBook and/or audiobooks *where applicable* (i.e. some books still only list print editions, and I can only assume there was a reason for that, since others do list those modern options).

Cheers & Happy Reading! :-D


Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Thanks for the update, Kenia! I did notice the Frederick Douglass issue when I got to his biography. I decided to read the shorter one, which I think was the earlier version.

Would you have time to list the books Bauer has put in the science section? I'm so curious!

I haven't bought the updated version yet and am still pondering whether to do so. The science selections might just tip the balance!

Thanks again!


message 6: by Kenia (last edited Mar 15, 2016 03:54PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kenia Sedler (keniasedler) | 6 comments Hi Cleo!

I currently have all of the TWEM books (plus more) listed chronologically on my website (one list across all genres). Books titles denoted with an asterisk (*) are NOT listed in TWEM; those are my own ambitious additions. ;-)

Unfortunately, my site doesn't have the capability yet for one to filter the table, but if you use Crtl+F and search for "Science" you will find all the science books Bauer has compiled in the latest TWEM edition. Only 3 of the books in this science category are my own, non-TWEM additions, so just keep an eye on those asterisks.

www.KeniaSedler.com/theproject


Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Oh, wow, Kenia! I got so excited looking at your blog that I forgot to look for the science books!! I just love it! I have a mental list that looks very much like yours, but it's hard to find like-minded readers who really want to tackle Homer, or Artistotle, or Rousseau, etc. If you don't mind, I'm going to "borrow" some of your choices to add to my list. And let me know if you ever need a reading buddy. I'm reading through the Greek dramatists now but who knows .... perhaps we can meet up for the Peloponnesian War or The Republic.

Do you mind if I put you on my blog roll? My blog is Classical Carousel, if you want to take a look.

Sorry, I got carried away for a moment .... ;-) I'm going back to look at the science books now ...... :-)


message 8: by Plethora (new) - added it

Plethora (bookworm_r) | 119 comments You know where to find me whe.you want to twist my arm for History of the Peloponnesian War or The Republic. However, you also know I'm not always on the ball!

I have been trying to stay more even keeled this year, getting a sense of balance.


Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments A Bookworm Reading (Plethora) wrote: "You know where to find me whe.you want to twist my arm for History of the Peloponnesian War or The Republic. However, you also know I'm not always on the ball!

I have be..."


I'm starting very slowly on The Histories and I thought you might want to join. I have no schedule for this, as I'm trying to simply fit it in among all my other reads. Do you want me to start a thread for it in our group for a check-in so we both know where we are? That way you can drop out or I can drop out or we can both drop out and we'll both be aware of it. That was a joke ...... and yes, it was meant to be funny ..... ;-D


message 10: by Kenia (last edited Mar 16, 2016 11:30AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kenia Sedler (keniasedler) | 6 comments Cleo wrote: "Oh, wow, Kenia! I got so excited looking at your blog that I forgot to look for the science books!! I just love it! I have a mental list that looks very much like yours, but it's hard to find like-..."

Thank you so much Cleo!! Yes, I want to read all of those authors, and yes I would love to be your reading buddy!

I absolutely love your blog too! I got lost checking out the various pages and your own to-read lists. OMG I'm going to have to take some book ideas from your lists too, haha.

Please feel free to add me to your blog roll. I just started my own blog recently (as you can see there isn't too much on it just yet), and I'm thinking that's such a great idea to have links to other likeminded blogs! I will have to add that soon. May I add yours?

I noticed your Ancient Greek 2016 Challenge too! SO exciting. I see you've done a review on the Odyssey already--did you read the Iliad too yet? I've finish the Iliad a couple months ago, am half way through the Odyssey now, and will be getting to Agamemnon and Oedipus the King later this year, which I noticed are also on your Ancient Greek list. Meeting up for The Peloponnesian War or The Republic sounds good too! Do you have an idea when you might be getting to those?

Let me know how The Histories goes. Even if we don't read the same books at the same time, I'm always open for discussing past books we've both read that we have in common.

*sigh* Too many books and so little time. lol


message 11: by Cleo (last edited Mar 16, 2016 04:01PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Kenia wrote: "Thank you so much Cleo!! Yes, I want to read all of those authors, and yes I would love to be your reading buddy!

I absolutely love your blog too! I got lost checking out the various pages and your own to-read lists. OMG I'm going to have to take some book ideas from your lists too, haha.
..."


Thanks, Kenia! That would be great! I've taken to pairing up for reads with bloggers I know, mainly because my selections can be unusual and it's not easy to find others reading them, so when I do, I suggest a buddy read. My Greek challenge is taking me down that path this year, but I always get distracted by others reads popping up that I want to do. For example, a number of us are starting The Faerie Queene at the end of April. It doesn't fit my focus this year, but I've always wanted to read it and it's so beneficial reading along with others, so I just couldn't resist! :-)

I read The Iliad about 6+ years ago. I really want to do a re-read of it in the same format as The Odyssey (Bookworm, who posted above, hosted a great read-along for it) where I posted two books at a time on my blog and really did an in-depth read. The Iliad is my favourite of my Greek reads so far. I'm just finishing up The Oresteia which means I'll have read all of Aeschylus' plays, then I'll move to Sophocles. I'm not sure when I'm going to be reading him, as I'm trying to fit the dramas in at the moment among other reads, but we might overlap on that one.

As for History of the Peloponnesian War and The Republic, I'm not certain when I'll get to them. I can't imagine before mid-year and probably late, late this year is more likely. What about you? Do you have a scheduled time to read through your list, or are you simply going from book to book and taking however long it takes you?

Yes, we can certainly discuss past books. We could put up a thread here and discuss away.

Oh, and yes you can certainly add my blog to your blogroll! I'd be honoured!


message 12: by Karin (new)

Karin Kenia wrote: "Besides the obvious addition of the science section (hooray!!), upon a closer comparison between the two editions I realized Bauer has added 4 new reads. These new additions are:

1) Novel: "The Ro..."


I've read two of those already, and won't be rereading The Road as it was just last year and I didn't like it, although I upped it up one star from hated it because he writes extremely well. It was too depressing for me.


message 13: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Karin wrote: "I've read two of those already, and won't be rereading The Road as it was just last year and I didn't like it, although I upped it up one star from hated it because he writes extremely well. It was too depressing for me. ..."

Karin, have you read any other books from any of the lists? If so, what did you think? I've been going through the biographies. While I have enjoyed most of them, I do find her choices "unique". And it does get somewhat boring reading only one genre. I suppose she grouped it that way because there is a certain reading process that differs with each genre, but I think the way Kenia has decided to do it is much wiser. Reading everything chronologically makes more sense.


message 14: by Karin (new)

Karin Cleo wrote: "Karin wrote: "I've read two of those already, and won't be rereading The Road as it was just last year and I didn't like it, although I upped it up one star from hated it because he writes extremel..."

I gave up on the lists eventually. I was primarily going through the fiction, first as I recall. Sometimes I prefer different books by the same authors she lists. I was reading chronologically, and that is one way that makes sense; another way would be by genre, but as you mentioned, that can get boring. I didn't get the the biographies, but am sure I've read some of them, especially if Ben Franklin's autobiography is on it. To this day, try as I might, I just have never been able to get through all of Gulliver's Travels, either as a kid, teen or adult.

I am not good with doing reading lists now since I have read so prolifically and such a wide variety of things I don't think I have an uneducated mind. I once thought I'd read the entire Harvard Classics, which was recommended to me before Susan Wise Bauer ever published a book (she might have still been in school), but I only read a few and then set it aside.

I find now that I prefer to read things I like at three stars and up if I'm reading for leisure, although I make exceptions.

Some of the books I'd read before coming to the WTM or WEM, but my book is downstairs and I'm on too late (I won't sleep so well having been on the computer in the evening instead of the day).

I read The Road when I was doing a personal dystopian challenge last year or the year before, although I've read many dystopian books over the decades, literary, scifi, mainstream, etc. Since I was challenging myself, I read it all, however, with Atwood's Maddaddam trilogy I gave up in the third book (but surprisingly liked the second one; I've never been much of an Atwood fan).

I read Maya Angelou's book when I was in high school and found it very powerful (it came out when I was 9) and am planning on reading a book of her poems this month, but not rereading that book.

I read about half of The Republic by Plato and then threw it down annoyed with Plato, although I enjoyed the beginning. I got tired of the whole style of the conversation (setting that one fellow up over and over again; I'm not keen on people trying to get a rise out of other people), whereas I enjoyed reading Apology/Crito/Phaedo (not in that book, but I've read those) more. I might try The Republic again, but I got so tired of some of his assumptions.

My problem is that I should have ignored students in university who said that Philosophy was hard since I was far more patient with philosophy then. Now I'm more interested in the history of thought, etc (I did like The Swerve: How the World Became Modern a few years ago, but that's probably not on the list even though I disagreed with much of the opinions, the history was interesting; I also thoroughly enjoyed A Brief History of Time even though I don't care for some of his circular reasoning--it really is a fun theory; not all physicists agree with Hawking, of course, but I'm not physicist; ).


message 15: by Kenia (last edited Mar 18, 2016 06:31PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kenia Sedler (keniasedler) | 6 comments Cleo wrote: "Thanks, Kenia! That would be great! I've taken to pairing up for reads with bloggers I know, mainly because my selections can be unusual and it's not easy to find others reading them, so when I do, I suggest a buddy read..."

Yeah, I've finally decided to venture more online than IRL for fellow booklovers. That's why I started my blog: to contribute to the online discussion. I tried starting a book club with my friends, and was ok with reading modern novels, it didn't have to be classics, but I quickly found out that, for some reason, most of them thought "book club" was code for "hang out and drink wine club." Whenever I see pop culture references to how book clubs aren't really book clubs, and the women just use it as a guise to gather and drink and gossip....I sigh because I realize how true that is. LoL I had wanted a real book club, so I passed it on to someone else to run. :-/

That's SO fascinating the the Iliad is your favorite! Out of the ancient Greeks, I've only read that and am almost finished with the Odyssey, but out of those 2 I enjoy the Odyssey much more.

I wasn't planning on getting to the Peloponnesian War and The Republic until next year. So, I'm an engineer, and in true nerdy, engineer fashion I created a spreadsheet: the "2016 Reading Plan" spreadsheet. I made a list of everything I hoped to read this year, which includes a lot of modern novels and non-fiction books, in addition to the books from my Project that you saw on my site, including the page numbers of each book and a multiplier to account for reading difficulty (say, for example, an easy book is 200 pages, and a difficult book is also 200 pages, but it will take me twice as long to read the difficult book, so in the next column, I multiply 200 by 2, and pretend the book is 400 pages). I tallied up the column with the adjusted page count, and then divide that total by the total number of reading days I have that year. To come up with the number of days, I basically assumed 5 days per week for 52 weeks, minus any vacations, and minus any days leading up to busy weekends where I know preparations will cut into my reading time during the week.
...oh my god, I know, that's complicated. But it's how my brain works, ha! I was thinking of creating a nice-looking version of my spreadsheet to share online, and writing an essay about my process on my blog.

Anyway, I plan to update my lists this weekend to add the sci-fi recommendation you gave me, plus I realized, to my horror, that I had nothing by Edgar Allan Poe or Arthur Conan Doyle on my list! (I'm always adding books...*sigh* I'll say it once and I'll say it again: too many books and so little time! LOL). I also plan to add a blogroll list and will be linking to your blog. :-D (I batch all my blogging on the weekends because my job wears me out and I have an hour commute each way that doesn't leave much time for me to manage my blog during the workweek.)

I'm so glad that we've gotten in touch. I look forward to any discussion about any particular books, or even just reading and bookishness in general. :-)


message 16: by Karin (new)

Karin I got the original WEM out and will come back to list what I've already read in answer to the question posed, but not now as I have to go make supper.


Bookwormwisewoman | 1 comments Hallo Karin and Cleo
I too have made a list of all the books in the WTM mixing the themes together into a chronological order. I did this as I did not want to read them out of context of happenings influencing the authors. I am on Gilgamesh but have started the Histories as well with another Goodreads group. I am also reading War and Peace. I would like to join a thread about the Greek classics if you could start one please. This seems a lot but I am presently unable to work due to surgery so am itching to use the enforced slow down by reading and not wasting the "so little time to read so many books"

I am new to Goodreads but have found loads of the challenges that Cleo also has on her blog and am either trying to complete or not sign up for as I do not want to be overwhelmed, however I may need to start following some of them as well!

I do have trouble writing in a book as rereading it then annoys me as time will have changed my views so I keep a journal as I go. this is paper based as I am still not technological enough to use a computer and paper is so much easier to carry around.

I look forward to future comments.


message 18: by Cleo (last edited Mar 22, 2016 09:26PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Kenia wrote: "Yeah, I've finally decided to venture more online than IRL for fellow booklovers. That's why I started my blog: to contribute to the online discussion. I tried starting a book club with my friends, and was ok with reading modern novels, it didn't have to be classics, but I quickly found out that, for some reason, most of them thought "book club" was code for "hang out and drink wine club." ..."

I looked for an IRL book club for quiet awhile and then gave up. Goodreads led to my blog and then I've just naturally met people with similar reading tastes and the read-alongs have begun to grow! I tend to read mostly classics but I do enjoy less intellectual books and I would like to get the chance to read authors like Ellis Peters, Elizabeth Goudge, Georgette Heyer, Margery Sharp, David McCullough, Barbara Tuchman, Christopher Hibbert, etc. I'd like to read much more non-fiction than I do, but there are so many classics that I haven't read, so for now, I'm focussing on them with a few odds and ends thrown in!

I had to laugh at your spreadsheet "retentiveness" but to be honest, I have an accounting background so your approach didn't appear as odd as it might to others. I used to, when I was reading multiple books at a time, tally the pages and divide them so I knew where I should be each week. Now I just pray and mostly everything seems to work out alright. You noticed that "mostly" ......? ;-)

I had the dickens of a time adding you to my blogroll but finally it took and you're up. I'm glad to see that I hooked you into the Deal Me In challenge. It really has forced me to read poems, essays, etc. that I probably would have never voluntarily read, and I've enjoyed every one so it's probably been my most beneficial challenge.

I'm thrilled to see more WEMers popping up. I'm glad we connected too! :-)


message 19: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Karin wrote: "I got the original WEM out and will come back to list what I've already read in answer to the question posed, but not now as I have to go make supper."

Don't worry about it, Karin. You more or less answered my question in message 14. It was nice to hear that you've been free and easy with the lists. I think the rest of the biographies might be hard for me to push through, but after that it should be smooth sailing!


message 20: by Cleo (last edited Mar 22, 2016 09:43PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Bookwormwisewoman wrote: "Hallo Karin and Cleo
I too have made a list of all the books in the WTM mixing the themes together into a chronological order. I did this as I did not want to read them out of context of happening..."


Another wise person who is reading in chronological order!

I know what you mean about the challenges. Can you believe that one year I did 30 challenges? Yikes! I've cut back and actually am doing more read-alongs, but there are always challenges coming up that are so tempting.

That's too bad that you're bed-bound, but that must be awesome for reading. I will muck around and see what I can do for a Greek thread. I may have to set it up as a topic off this main folder. We tried to set the topics up in a more organized way, but the moderator is MIA so we don't have the ability to mess around with anything. In any case, I'll see what I can do.

Nice to meet you, Bookworm and I look forward to future discussions!


message 21: by Plethora (new) - added it

Plethora (bookworm_r) | 119 comments Do we know how long the mods been MIA? If they are no longer active on GR and you have tried to contact them we can email GR asking to have a new moderator installed.


message 22: by Plethora (new) - added it

Plethora (bookworm_r) | 119 comments Ok, well I answered my own question. They are still active on GR, but haven't commented in this group for years. I just sent a friend request with a message asking if they would consider selecting a current active member of this group as a moderator.


message 23: by Robin (new)

Robin Mccormack (robinmccormack) | 39 comments Hey all! I'm still lurking. I tried getting ahold of Leslie, the original person who set up, to add me as moderator quite a while ago and never got a response. Hopefully you get a response. Also I have the complete list along with updates on the 52 books blog if needed.


message 24: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments A Bookworm Reading (Plethora) wrote: "Ok, well I answered my own question. They are still active on GR, but haven't commented in this group for years. I just sent a friend request with a message asking if they would consider selecting ..."

Thanks for doing this, Bookworm! I can always rely on you to get things fixed! :-)


message 25: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Robin wrote: "Hey all! I'm still lurking. I tried getting ahold of Leslie, the original person who set up, to add me as moderator quite a while ago and never got a response. Hopefully you get a response. Also I ..."

Hi Robin! I'm glad to see that you're still around. I remember that you tried to find Lesley with no success. Hopefully Bookworm can get ahold of her.

I'll certainly check your blog for the WEM list. Have you tried reading through it?


message 26: by Karin (last edited Mar 24, 2016 09:38AM) (new)

Karin Cleo wrote: "Karin wrote: "I got the original WEM out and will come back to list what I've already read in answer to the question posed, but not now as I have to go make supper."

Don't worry about it, Karin. Y..."


Good. Did I remember to mention that sometimes I prefer alternate selections to those in WEM? Also, I don't understand why under historians she missed Snorri Sturluson, who scholars disagree as to whether or not he's the greatest or second greatest historian of the middle ages. He's the first known historian to have actually gone and done some source research, although he wouldn't pass by contemporary standards, and there are other notable things about his book. I was going to put it here, but the one copy I have has a very bad subtitle that doesn't do justice to the entire book. He also wrote a book on writing Norse poetry that was used as a textbook for about 600 years.


message 27: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Karin wrote: "I don't understand why under historians she missed Snorri Sturluson, who scholars disagree as to whether or not he's the greatest or second greatest historian of the middle ages...."

Somewhat off topic, I've been only recently introduced to Snorri Sturluson in a very curious way. I was watching Le Petit Nicolas and the mother inadvertently drank a little too much due to nerves over meeting her husband's boss, and simply could not get through his name. In context, it was mildly amusing, but now I know who Snorri Sturluson is! :-)


message 28: by Robin (new)

Robin Mccormack (robinmccormack) | 39 comments Cleo wrote: "Robin wrote: "Hey all! I'm still lurking. I tried getting ahold of Leslie, the original person who set up, to add me as moderator quite a while ago and never got a response. Hopefully you get a res..."

Hey Cleo. I browsed through the new book and read some of it, I've read several of the fiction books and have a few from each category in my stacks. I've been so busy with writing classes that I've been reading comfort reads in between. Now that I'm getting more and more into nonfiction, the autobiographies are looking more enticing.


message 29: by Karin (new)

Karin Cleo wrote: "Karin wrote: "I don't understand why under historians she missed Snorri Sturluson, who scholars disagree as to whether or not he's the greatest or second greatest historian of the middle ages...."
..."


He also shows up in my family tree more than once via different daughters (on one side; probably is on the other side, too, since it's so far back).

I got to know more about him a few years ago when SWB did some sort of contest or book thing where we were to write books for kids on people, but with all those names it was not simple.


message 30: by Sandy (new) - added it

Sandy I had every intention of jumping into this project when Cleo invited me to join but health issues have recently interfered in my life in a big way. I must admit that, after I bought the book and realized how it was organized, I felt a bit reluctant to start in the middle of the autobiography stream. I have always had a need to "start at the beginning" of things and proceed in a logical way.

Kenia's brilliant idea of reading chronologically across all the categories suits my natural inclinations so much better so that will be my approach, I think, when I get my life sorted out enough to tackle it. In the meantime, I will continue to "lurk" - if no one minds - and comment when I have something to contribute to the discussion.

And a big "thank you" to Kenia for sharing her spreadsheet. It will be my roadmap.


Kenia Sedler (keniasedler) | 6 comments Sandy,

Thanks so much. I'm glad my list has helped!

I don't think anyone minds your "lurking" at all. ;-)

I truly wish you the best in feeling better and getting your health back. I hope that soon your life will allow for reading and many other pleasures as well.


message 32: by Robin (new)

Robin Mccormack (robinmccormack) | 39 comments Hey Cleo,

Lesley finally got back to me and added you and I as moderators. You can make any changes now that you want. :)


message 33: by Plethora (last edited Apr 21, 2016 09:17PM) (new) - added it

Plethora (bookworm_r) | 119 comments That is good to hear Robin. I contacted Goodreads for help in getting in touch with her since you have seemed unsuccessful in and I hadn't been either. They said they would reach out and if unsuccessful they would assist in appointing new mod(s).


message 34: by Cleo (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cleo (cleopatra18) | 274 comments Thanks so much for this, Robin and you too, Bookworm. Now I can see what I can do with some organization!


message 35: by Karin (new)

Karin Excellent! I already see the improvements you've been able to make.


message 36: by Karin (new)

Karin I know this isn't in WEM, but I'm reading Our Mutual Friend by Dickens. I agree with SWB about A Tale of Two Cities belonging on her list, though.


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