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message 1: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Hi y'all, I hope I'm not overstepping, but I wanted to see if we're going to continue with our annual challenge? I'm crossing my fingers we are because our challenges have really helped me read more books!

I've been building my list of suggestions throughout the year, and below are my top 12 picks. Hopefully at least a few of them will resonant with other members.

Of course all selections must fit within our group's main areas of discussion: myth, legends, and fairy tales. It just felt redundant to write that beside each one. However, to me, "a book" means a novella, novel or collection.

A book from the Endicott Mythic Fiction list
A book from the Endicott Adult Fairy Tales list
A book from the Endicott Young Adult Fairy Tales list
A book by an author new to you
A book "everyone" but you has read
A book with an LGBTQ character
A book translated from another language
A book set somewhere you've traveled
A book by an author of color
A book set in a non-European country
A book about trees; Enchanted forests, World Tree, dryads, etc.
A book with an animal protagonist or animal transformations


message 2: by Jalilah (last edited Dec 02, 2015 06:18PM) (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Leah wrote: "Hi y'all, I hope I'm not overstepping, but I wanted to see if we're going to continue with our annual challenge? I'm crossing my fingers we are because our challenges have really helped me read mor..."

Not at all Leah! I was thinking about it and glad you brought it up!
I was also going to suggest the Endicott List books. I think everyone here wants to read more.

Because we had the suggestions of both Arabian Nights and Asia I was going to suggest original tale (or tales) or a novel retelling of myth or containing several myths from each place: Middle East, South Asia or Indian subcontinent and East Asia. Or maybe that's too much?
Or possibly a kind of around the world including Africa, Europe and the Americas.


message 3: by Katy (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 852 comments I too like all the Endicott lists
And would love something with Arabian Nights theme somehow


message 4: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Endicott list is good - though I don't think I've read many this year...

I think an Around the world type of thing (Middle East/East Asia/South Asia/Africa/etc) could take place of things like "New to you", translated, author of color, non-European country.

Cause just by seeking out tales from other areas, you're a lot more likely to look outside the box.


message 5: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: ".I think an Around the world type of thing (Middle East/East Asia/South Asia/Africa/etc) could take place of things like "New to you", translated, author of color, non-European country.

Cause just by seeking out tales from other areas, you're.."


That's what I was thinking. Just by looking for titles to nominate for the Asian themed read, I discovered many new books I wanted to read. And yes, definitely look outside the box.


message 6: by Lacey (new)

Lacey Louwagie | 236 comments Yay, I've been thinking about this, too! I'm excited about all the potential suggestions for themes. I'd like to add as an idea a book that is based on religious mythology of some kind -- a retelling of a story from the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, even Greek or Egyptian myths since they sprang from ancient religious belief. I think religious stories, like fairy tales and other myths, endure not because they are objectively true but because they contain universal truths about being human.


message 7: by Margaret (new)

Margaret | 3663 comments Mod
I feel like I should contribute here since I'll definitely be participating, but I like everyone's suggestions so far!

My main reading goal next year is to read more diverse authors--especially related to people of color. But Leah has great suggestions to that end.

We could probably slip the 'Around the World' theme in lieu of the translated author, since Around the World suggests something that would need to be translated.

I also like the religious theme.


message 8: by Katy (last edited Dec 08, 2015 11:42AM) (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 852 comments I would also be interested in the around the world -- or continents? and the religious themes.


message 9: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments I agree an "Around the World" entry could replace translated and non-European country. Would that mean, for this entry, we select one book from a country/continent of our choice, or a book for x number of countries or each continent? Meaning, this entry could equate to seven books.

However, I think author of color should remain separate. I, for one, will also be completing the 50 books by people of color challenge in 2016 (as a subset of my annual reading challenge), and I think giving "author of color" its own entry is important. I would rather element something like "A book set somewhere you've traveled" or "A book "everyone" but you has read" rather than lump "author of color" in with "Around the World". Just my two cents.


message 10: by Melanti (last edited Dec 09, 2015 10:05AM) (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
So something like this?

A book from the Endicott Mythic Fiction list
A book from the Endicott Adult Fairy Tales list
A book from the Endicott Young Adult Fairy Tales list
A book with an LGBTQ character
A book by an author of color

A book or collection set in or using mythology/tales/folklore from:
East Asia (i.e. China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, etc)
South & Southeast Asia (i.e. India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand etc)
Africa
Middle East
Central or South America
Oceania (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc)

A book that makes use of the stories surrounding one of the world's major religions (i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam)



A book by an author new to you
A book "everyone" but you has read
A book translated from another language
A book set somewhere you've traveled
A book set in a non-European country
A book about trees; Enchanted forests, World Tree, dryads, etc.
A book with an animal protagonist or animal transformation


That does eliminate the animal protagonist/transformation theme, though, as well as the trees category.

I like the religious theme too. I've read a couple this year and they're generally pretty interesting.

Leah, one of the reasons why I suggested possibly removing "author of color" is that if you're reading tales from Asia, Africa, Middle East, and South America - one of them is bound to be "of color." But I've left it in for now.


message 11: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Melanti wrote: "Leah, one of the reasons why I suggested possibly removing "author of color" is that if you're reading tales from Asia, Africa, Middle East, and South America - one of them is bound to be "of color." But I've left it in for now. "

Yep, I get your logic. If no one else agrees, or if they prefer to have the trees or animals category, then by all means, replace it. If that's the consensus, I vote for the animal protagonist/transformation.


message 12: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments P.S. Could you list example countries beside Oceania like you did for Asia? I am geographically-challenged ;)


message 13: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Sure. That's mostly just Australia, New Zealand, and all those tiny little islands East of Indonesia & Australia.

The challenge can link to Wikipedia's list of countries for the geographically challenged.


message 14: by Katy (last edited Dec 09, 2015 10:25AM) (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 852 comments I'm uncomfortable characterizing people by racial or sexual tendencies. I prefer to think of people as people. Can we rethink those?

And rather than animals or trees -- what about Traveler's tales? I don't think we've looked at that theme before. http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/traveltales...


message 15: by Margaret (new)

Margaret | 3663 comments Mod
Kathy wrote: "I'm uncomfortable characterizing people by racial or sexual tendencies. I prefer to think of people as people. Can we rethink those?."

I like those because publishers discriminate (mostly unintentionally) against these authors, so by challenging myself to intentionally seek out books by marginalized populations, I'm encouraging diversity within the publishing industry.

However, I do understand your point. How do people feel about retellings by minorities?


message 16: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Kathy - some of the reasoning behind it is that for some people & certain genres, if you're not paying attention, it's really easy to not have much diversity in terms of your authors.

Sci-fi especially, but to a lesser extent fantasy seems to have that issue. Just not a ton of author diversity writing in the genre, for whatever reason.

Several years ago - before I joined Goodreads - someone set up a challenge with "person of color" on it and I thought it'd be a really simple category to fill. That is, until I combed through my massive TBR and found 99.9% of the books on it wouldn't qualify. I had I had no idea. I did read a diverse set of authors, but none of that diversity was in the fantasy genre.

Sometimes, not paying attention to race at all can lead to no diversity at all. It's a conundrum, I agree. I don't want to think of people by their race, but sometimes NOT thinking of them by race leads to leaving them out entirely. Nalo Hopkinson wrote a couple of interesting articles on the subject. They were reprinted in Report from Planet Midnight, if you want to read them. As I recall, one of them talked about the difficulty in not taking the race of the author into account when selecting stories for anthologies - while still trying to ensure she had a really diverse pool of authors to pull from.

That being said, I don't think a lack of diversity is an issue this group has. And I think we read enough non-European sources that it's pretty much a given when you phrase it "person of color". I like phrasing it as "by minorities" better, though, cause that also takes into account factors like where they're living.


Those stories seem to be about people who travel, is that right? Are there going to be many of those for a challenge category?


A couple more possible around the world type categories we could use would be..
North America & Caribbean (Non-European based tales only)
Slavic Countries (Eastern European countries, basically)
A member of any Diaspora


"Any Diaspora" could be Jewish, Romani, or perhaps even Native American or African American slave populations, if it was shortly after the forced migrations.


message 17: by Katy (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 852 comments Melanti wrote: "...A couple more possible around the world type categories we could use would be..
North America & Caribbean (Non-European based tales only)
Slavic Countries (Eastern European countries, basically)
A member of any Diaspora..."


Those are good ideas.


message 18: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Kathy - some of the reasoning behind it is that for some people & certain genres, if you're not paying attention, it's really easy to not have much diversity in terms of your authors.

Sci-fi espec..."


That is very true. If I suggested leaving out the person of color catagory, it was only because that would be included if we chose something from a writer from one of the places mentioned.

I would very much like to read a book from a First Nations/Native American author with the mythology.
I'd also like to include myths fairy tales from or novels inspired by a European culture.
How about Celtic?


message 19: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
I'd prefer a generic North American (non-European) & Caribbean category to a more specific First Nations/Native American. Mostly because I don't want to exclude the Caribbean. Granted, a lot of those stories have their origins in African tales, and we do have a category for those, but the mix of cultures down there changed them in interesting ways.

If we add in a North American category, adding a European category of some sort would mean we have each continent represented. I put in Eastern European (Slavic) just to have something with "Europe" in the category name - but it could as easily be Celtic or another nation.

So the list so far is:
A book from the Endicott Mythic Fiction list
A book from the Endicott Adult Fairy Tales list
A book from the Endicott Young Adult Fairy Tales list
A book with an LGBTQ character
A book by an author of color
A book that makes use of the stories surrounding one of the world's major religions (i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam)

A book or collection set in or using mythology/tales/folklore from:
East Asia (i.e. China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, etc)
South & Southeast Asia (i.e. India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand etc)
Africa
Middle East
Central or South America
Oceania (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc)
North America & Caribbean (Non-European based tales only)
A European country/area? Slavic? Celtic?
A member of any Diaspora


We usually have 12 categories, and this list has 15. So we need to cut 3.


Even if we cut POC and LGBTQ, we would still have to cut one more.

I listed East & South Asia separately - mostly because there's so much Chinese and Japanese folklore, I wanted to give it its own slot.
But I'm unsure if there's enough from South & Southeast Asia for it to have its own slot. Obviously, there'll be plenty of collections, but I'm not sure how many retellings from that area there are. Same with Oceania.

It seems messy, but perhaps could we combine Oceania and South/Southeast Asia? THat way there's bound to be more retellings to choose from.

Or perhaps Disapora - it seemed logical to throw it in, but I don't know if there's enough material for it.


message 20: by Jalilah (last edited Dec 10, 2015 07:50AM) (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
I love the idea of all the continents being represented!

With Europe, I think Everyone can choose what European country they read from.

With Oceania, I think it would be a separate category, but are there a lot of retellings? for the reason you suggested Melanti, it could be combined with South East Asia to give us more choices.

May I suggest cutting POC for the reason I said before, the books from many of the places will already be written by POC. Leah are you ok with that?
I read a lot of POC authors anyway, so personally I don't need to have it on a challenge.
Diaspora is a great idea but perhaps we can do it another time ( or choose it as a theme), otherwise the challenge will be too long!

That brings it down to 12 right?


message 21: by Leah (last edited Dec 10, 2015 07:35AM) (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Margaret wrote: "I like those because publishers discriminate (mostly unintentionally) against these authors, so by challenging myself to intentionally seek out books by marginalized populations, I'm encouraging diversity within the publishing industry.

However, I do understand your point. How do people feel about retellings by minorities?"


Yes, what Margaret and Melanti said.

I actually prefer the term marginalized, and I chose "author of color" in case other members did a search online or looked up other challenges. "People of Color" or "Women of Color" is how those challenges are listed.

I, too, look at and treat people as people; however, when it comes to the publishing industry and especially its marketing machine, "minorities" are severely underrepresented. Look at book covers that show a white character when in fact the character is NOT white. Or look at this infographic on YA characters or this one on Children's characters. Here's one on YA authors. Or read Malinda Lo's article series or website Diversity in YA.

Until I read these and other articles on the subject (I'd have to flip back through my research journal to find all my sources), I had never paid attention to the gender, race or ethnicity of the authors I read. After all, I was raised color blind and taught all people equal including their gender and sexuality.

So I had only ever picked books because of title, cover and/or blurb. Which, in an ideal world, books would be diverse, a given, so that one wouldn't have to actively seek out an author who writes LGBTQ characters or an author from a native tribe. Or, like my 16yo daughter requested, "Can't LGBTQ characters just be? Why does it have to be THE issue of the book? I want to read a book where it's not special or 'a big deal' to be LGBTQ; they just are."

Sadly, at least in the US, diversity in the publishing world is not a given. I hope someday it will be standard and the only way to make that happen is to open the eyes of readers, effectively and consistently. In a capitalistic society like the US, change is most often effected by dollars (look at fast food restaurants now offering "healthy" options); in other words, publishers must see that readers want, demand and buy books with diversity or else they'll keep on doing what makes them the most money. This means readers must make deliberate informed choices when buying books.

When I examined what I was reading and what was in my TBR list, the majority was A LOT of white dudes. I wasn't even reading much by women! It was an eye-opening experience. In my blindness, in only picking books based on the book itself, I was inadvertently contributing to the marginalization of peoples I cared about - even my own gender. Thankfully an open mind and knowledge are all it takes to fix my ignorance. :D

Melanti already discussed the genre specificity of this issue. I agree. I believe my personal library's lack of diversity was also linked to the genre I read the most: SF/F in which I'm including fantasy, horror and sci-fi. Particularly in horror, one must have constant vigilance in order to uncover non-white, non-male authors. It's not easy. From the age of 11, part of me had always wondered why 95% of the horror stories I read were by men. I often thought myself strange or weird because
1) I enjoyed reading horror and thought other girls/women must not since most of its writers were men writing stories very obviously FOR boys/men
2) I enjoyed writing scary stories. and why didn't other girls/women write horror? Female horror writers were not readily accessible other than the big bestsellers like Anne Rice.

I can't even imagine how a minority female might feel if she was both an avid reader and writer of horror. I'd say it'd be damn near impossible to find a fair representation of herself as either character or author.

Thanks to this group I now read more mythic fiction, fairy tales and magical realism than horror - all of which do seem inherently more diverse genres. Though, I do still hold out hope for diversity in the SF/F genres, especially horror. I still love me a well-written ghost story or tale of terror, but those are rare nowadays.


message 22: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Jalilah wrote: "May I suggest cutting POC for the reason I said before, the books from many of the places will already be written by POC. Leah are you ok with that?"

Totally, and I appreciate the group's consideration of both the LGBTQ and POC suggestions, even if they ended up on the cutting room floor.


message 23: by Melanti (last edited Dec 10, 2015 10:33AM) (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Leah wrote: "When I examined what I was reading and what was in my TBR list, the majority was A LOT of white dudes. I wasn't even reading much by women! It was an eye-opening experience...."

That's one great thing about the trend of putting "Person of Color" onto challenges like these. It forces people to pay attention. If you'd asked about my reading choices before I joined that challenge, I would have dismissed the issue entirely. Even knowing it was an issue, my first attempt to come up with a list for my Classics group challenge this year had one book by a woman and nothing by a minority. And I was contemplating swapping out my sole book by a female by another book by a dead white guy. I was very surprised I had done such a thing when I noticed a couple of weeks later.


Leah, you should definitely read The Drowning Girl by Caitlín R. Kiernan. It's not "typical" horror - in that it's not scary or even meant to be scary, but I really enjoyed it.

Her The Red Tree is creepier but doesn't make all the same references to mythology/folktales that The Drowning Girl does.



Okay, so now our list is:
A book from the Endicott Mythic Fiction list
A book from the Endicott Adult Fairy Tales list
A book from the Endicott Young Adult Fairy Tales list
A book with an LGBTQ character
A book that makes use of the stories surrounding one of the world's major religions (i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam)

A book or collection set in or using mythology/tales/folklore from:
East Asia (i.e. China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, etc)
Oceania and South & Southeast Asia (i.e. India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc)
Middle East
Africa
Central or South America
North America & Caribbean (Non-European based tales only)
Europe




Do we all want to go with Celtic for the European portion?


message 24: by Margaret (new)

Margaret | 3663 comments Mod
Leah wrote: "Sadly, at least in the US, diversity in the publishing world is not a given. I hope someday it will be standard and the only way to make that happen is to open the eyes of readers, effectively and consistently. In a capitalistic society like the US, change is most often effected by dollars (look at fast food restaurants now offering "healthy" options); in other words, publishers must see that readers want, demand and buy books with diversity or else they'll keep on doing what makes them the most money. This means readers must make deliberate informed choices when buying books.

When I examined what I was reading and what was in my TBR list, the majority was A LOT of white dudes. I wasn't even reading much by women! It was an eye-opening experience. In my blindness, in only picking books based on the book itself, I was inadvertently contributing to the marginalization of peoples I cared about - even my own gender. Thankfully an open mind and knowledge are all it takes to fix my ignorance. :D."


Yes, I completely agree. It wasn't until I joined social media, like Twitter, that I realized there was a bias in the publishing industry, and I was inadvertently contributing to it by reading mainly white authors (I've always read about 50-50 male to female). I started following authors I liked, and they would share news about this lack of diversity. And I'm glad to be a more knowledgeable reader. However, it's been about 2 years since I realized this bias, but I'm honestly not doing enough to correct my reading habits.


message 25: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Kathy wrote: "I'm uncomfortable characterizing people by racial or sexual tendencies. I prefer to think of people as people. Can we rethink.."

It's also very confusing! Having lived outside of the U.S. most of my life, when there I never know what to check for myself when have to fill out those forms!
In other places people are more apt to be catagorized by where their ancestors came from. That's how the census was in Canada. They did not ask your race and I just had to check the ancestry of my parents and let them decide what I am!

Melanti wrote: ".A European country/area? Slavic? Celtic?
Do we all want to go with Celtic for the European portion? ."


Just as everyone can choose which book from which country in each continent, why don't we do the same for Europe? That will give everyone more choices.

Also because from now on we are going to continue having themes for our group reads, (rather than alternating between a collection and retelling) many of the suggestions here can also be used for theme nominations.


message 26: by Katy (new)

Katy (kathy_h) | 852 comments Jalilah wrote: "...Also because from now on we are going to continue having themes for our group reads, (rather than alternating between a collection and retelling) many of the suggestions here can also be used for theme nominations.
..."


Good idea.


message 27: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Okay. Generic Europe, it is.

I'll set up the challenge when I get some free time and try to include links to lists of countries for each area.


message 28: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Okay. Generic Europe, it is.

I'll set up the challenge when I get some free time and try to include links to lists of countries for each area."


Thanks Melanti!


message 29: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Huh. I had no clue that Egypt was considered part of the Middle East. It makes sense culturally, but it's on another continent!

In any case, the new challenge is up. Let me know if there's any typos or something that seems to be linked to the wrong spot.


message 30: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Huh. I had no clue that Egypt was considered part of the Middle East. It makes sense culturally, but it's on another continent!

In any case, the new challenge is up. Let me know if there's any ty..."


Yes, Egypt is considered to be part of the Middle East, but also Africa. Libya for example is not part of the Middle East.


message 31: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
However it seems the term Middle East has changed over the years.

According to Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middl...

"The term Middle East has been criticized as implicitly Eurocentric.[17][18] In contemporary English-language academic and media venues, the term is used by both Europeans and non-Europeans.

The description Middle has also led to some confusion over changing definitions. Before the First World War, "Near East" was used in English to refer to the Balkans and the Ottoman Empire, while "Middle East" referred to Iran, the Caucasus, Afghanistan, Central Asia, and Turkestan. In contrast, "Far East" referred to the countries of East Asia (e.g. China, Japan, Formosa, Korea, Hong Kong, etc.)"

I also did not know the term Middle Eastern was considered Eurocentric!


message 32: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Huh. I had no clue that Egypt was considered part of the Middle East. It makes sense culturally, but it's on another continent!

In any case, the new challenge is up. Let me know if there's any ty..."


To me the list looks good. I am the worst person to ask about typos however. I make so many myself!


message 33: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Jalilah wrote: "I also did not know the term Middle Eastern was considered Eurocentric! ..."

Well, IMO, of course it's Eurocentric. East of where? East of Western Europe, of course. A non-Eurocentric name might be "Arabian Countries", "Persian Countries" or simply "West Asian".



(BTW, I've always considered the US term "Midwest" as frustratingly centric to the Eastern seaboard... In what dictionary is the centerpoint of a country the western-most portion of the "Midwest"? Not a single Midwest state is in the Western half of the US. Same sort of philosophy on that name.)


message 34: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "I also did not know the term Middle Eastern was considered Eurocentric! ..."

Well, IMO, of course it's Eurocentric. East of where? East of Western Europe, of course. A non-Eurocent..."


Of course! I don't know why I did not think if that right away!


message 35: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
What do they call the Middle East within the Middle East?

Other than "home" of course.


message 36: by Jalilah (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "What do they call the Middle East within the Middle East?

Other than "home" of course."


In Arabic I think they use the term "al Sharq" which just means the East, as opposed to the West. I just had an amusing conversation with my significant other who is originally from Lebanon. When I asked him your question he just kept answering " the Middle East". When I explained why I asked, we discussed it more and determined in the past people probably just defined themselves as being where they were from, for example The Levant, Egypt, etc.
Maybe someone else will be able to answer.


message 37: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) | 1388 comments Mod
Can we add Cis (c) and asexual to the LGBTQ option?

Perhaps something other than Celtic for Europe? It's not that I don't love the tales but they are so common. How about Spain?


message 38: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) | 1388 comments Mod
We are suppose to refer to the Middle East as Eastern Asia, at least according to some educators if that helps.


message 39: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
I can add asexual when I get to a computer but isn't cis just someone who isn't Transgender? Is there a meaning beyond that?

we used a generic Europe rather than specifying a country so the Celtics thing isn't an issue.


message 40: by Zara (new)

Zara (zarasaud) How about the Arabian Nights


message 41: by Zara (new)

Zara (zarasaud) People in the middle east just call themselves arabs no one says "I'm from the middle east" or something on introduction.


message 42: by Jalilah (last edited Dec 16, 2015 08:04AM) (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Zara wrote: "How about the Arabian Nights"

Yes, of course. That would be included in the Middle East. So you can select Arabian Nights as the book you read for the Challenge, or you can nominate it as a theme for one of our Group Reads, or both.
We read Arabian Nights a few years ago as a group read https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... All our threads stay open so you can still add comments.

Zara wrote: "People in the middle east just call themselves arabs no one says "I'm from the middle east" or something on introduction."

True, but we were wondering about how they would call the region.


message 43: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) | 1388 comments Mod
Melanti wrote: "I can add asexual when I get to a computer but isn't cis just someone who isn't Transgender? Is there a meaning beyond that?

we used a generic Europe rather than specifying a country so the Celt..."


I think there is because my local Gamer Store does a LGBTCA night. And the C is cis.


message 44: by Margaret (new)

Margaret | 3663 comments Mod
Here's the wikipedia link to cisgender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Essentially, cisgender is when you identify as the sex you were born as. So because I identify as a woman and was born female, I would be cisgender (this is most people).

I think it's included in acronyms like LGBTCA to show that they're inclusive of everyone. So even though they're making it a point to be inclusive of the trans and gay communities, they also invite people who are not in those communities and identify as the gender they were born to participate. Nonexclusive, everyone come game:)


message 45: by Leah (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Melanti wrote: "In any case, the new challenge is up. Let me know if there's any typos or something that seems to be linked to the wrong spot."

The title of the challenge on group home page is "2016 Challenge a" - what's the "a" stand for? Perhaps a slip of the finger whilst typing.


message 46: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Margaret wrote: "Here's the wikipedia link to cisgender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Essentially, cisgender is when you identify as the sex you were born as. So because I identify as a woman and was bo..."


Whew! I was getting confused for a bit! I'd understood that Cisgender was the equivalent of "straight" as compared to transgender individuals. Chris's comment had me confused!

If LGBTCA has a C in it to make it inclusive of everyone, though, why doesn't it have a S in there too? More people would understand an S than understand the C. Cisgender is still somewhat of a niche term...

Leah wrote: The title of the challenge on group home page is "2016 Challenge a"..."

Huh. Weird... Why didn't I see that earlier? The A in the title has been removed and an A has been added to the LGBTQ portion.


message 47: by Jalilah (last edited Dec 16, 2015 01:29PM) (new)

Jalilah | 4438 comments Mod
Chris wrote: "We are suppose to refer to the Middle East as Eastern Asia, at least according to some educators if that helps."

I think you mean Western Asia, right Chris? I think Western Asia would be the more accurate term.


message 48: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) | 1388 comments Mod
Yes, sorry.


message 49: by Leah (last edited Dec 16, 2015 02:26PM) (new)

Leah (flying_monkeys) | 1009 comments Melanti wrote: "Whew! I was getting confused for a bit! I'd understood that Cisgender was the equivalent of "straight" as compared to transgender individuals. Chris's comment had me confused!

If LGBTCA has a C in it to make it inclusive of everyone, though, why doesn't it have a S in there too? More people would understand an S than understand the C. Cisgender is still somewhat of a niche term..."


Gender and sexuality are two different things: "straight" refers to one's sexuality as do lesbian, gay, bisexual; transgender and cisgender refer to one's gender, not their sexual orientation. There's straight transgender folks and gay cisgender folks. My daughter has to constantly explain this to me because I often confuse gender with sexuality. She was also telling me that the community is starting to steer away from the Q and use of the identifier "queer."

So if we change the challenge to LGBTCA, theoretically, a group member could pick a book with a cisgender character, which would be just about every book out there, since majority have characters who were born female (or male) and identify as such. When I recommended "A book with an LGBTQ character" it was with the hopes that we'd actively seek out books with non-cisgender and/or non-straight characters.

Edit: Having said that, it would be a fun challenge to find a myth, legend, or fairy tale with an asexual character. I'm not sure I've ever read anything with an asexual character and it'd be interesting to see how that would play out in genre like myth and fairy tales.


message 50: by Melanti (new)

Melanti | 2125 comments Mod
Leah wrote: "Melanti wrote: "Whew! I was getting confused for a bit! I'd understood that Cisgender was the equivalent of "straight" as compared to transgender individuals. Chris's comment had me confused!

If L..."


Right. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant Straight is to L, G, B, and A as Cis is to Trans. Adding Cis into the challenge would mean that literally any book would work.

Regarding the "Q", some people are now using the Q to stand for "questioning" rather than "queer."

It's a strange alphabet soup of terms at times!
It could also be that people are adding the C to the LGBTCA because they've heard people identifying themselves as cis and didn't know what it meant?

I did add an A to the challenge, but not the C.


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