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Book 15 - Fool's Quest > FOOL'S QUEST :Re-Read (FULL SPOILERS) Chapters 37-38

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message 1: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Sob....the end of the book is nigh!


message 2: by Alfred (last edited Dec 19, 2015 01:26PM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments “Begin with the End in mind”. An oft-used Covey phrase. As book 2 concludes, for me that phrase encapsulates how the story has been spun. I truly believe that Hobb has weaved an epic tale knowing exactly how it would all end. The loose ends are slowly but surely - purposefully and masterfully - interwoven back into the central thread that is the love story of Fitz and Fool.

To liberally re-phrase Mr Covey’s words, the concluding chapters End with the Beginning in mind. The beginning of a more personal journey for F/F. In the most touching moment to date, Fitz accepts Fool as he is ”You are you. Fool, Lord Golden, Amber, and Beloved. It is said that when you call someone by their name, you hold sway over that person. Here, Fitz calls all four of Fool’s names. Whether dragon-claimed or dragon-touched, Fool is first and foremost, and most certainly, Fitz-claimed.

If your pulse is not beating wildly and your heart is not sobbing at these ending chapters, then you are Forged. Chp 37 begins with the morning after. F/F had schmoozed, boozed and snoozed the day before. Now Fitz wakes up rested and contemplative. And contemplate long he did, from dark to dawn, of Fool’s countenance beside him. He stares and stares at Fool, noting the physical changes and the body posture, yet he completely avoids thinking about his heart's feelings in the privacy of his own thoughts.

Fool wakes from a sweetheart’s dream. ”I dreamed of both of us here. Walking in this city, laughing and talking.”. Perhaps as Realder and girl WP? ”He (Fool) said softly, “The air smelled like flowers. It was like that first time. In the Mountains at the market-circle” This reminds me of how much Fool loves flowers. He had flowers in his tower room at Shrewd’s court. He had flower vases in his LG private room. And oh, this is heart-breaking. He thought the daily flowers from Garetha were from Fitz and how he had loved receiving them…

This is the first time Amber calls Fitz “Beloved,” she said”. My brain registers the “she said” but my mind is not quick to accept “she” with “Beloved”. Intuitively, it feels….strange. Although for Fitz, it was seamless calling Fool “he” and Amber “she”. Hobb reminds readers of their name exchange. At the climactic end, Amber called Fitz back to his identity, ”BELOVED!” thus branding him once again, ”The touch of fingers on my wrist burned. Burned exquisitely, pain and ecstasy inseparable.” How many of us cried when Fool took his silver prints from Fitz in FF and how many cried when Fool marked Fitz once again? Yes, the story ends with the beginning in mind. Fitz is Fool-touched once more.

What do you think of Fitz’s night of “selfishness?” To me, selfishness would be say, Fitz ravaging Fool and then going to sleep immediately with no pillow talk. Or, hogging the whole bed. Diagonally. Honestly, what Fitz actually did - sleep with no cares - was not terrible. This man has earned one night of peaceful slumber. Nothing shameful about that. Even if poor Fool had to spill clothes everywhere while groping around.

Wonderful chapter and so much to ponder over. The hallway confrontation with Rapskal, the Keepers, the healing. A pause for your thoughts.


message 3: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "“Begin with the End in mind”. An oft-used Covey phrase. As book 2 concludes, for me that phrase encapsulates how the story has been spun. I truly believe that Hobb has weaved an epic tale knowing e..."

Oh GOD! Alfred, you have such a way with words. This was beautiful, and yes i cried on cue at all of the above moments. I need to pause for a moment to wipe the tears!

Ok, i'm back!!! This was the kind of chapter that i always wanted Hobb to write , but doubted we would ever see it- knowing her to giveth a crumb and then taketh away when it is poised at our lips! The intimacy between them was just gorgeous. And i agree, Fitz needed a light of carefree sleep. I did feel for fool though, having to grope around- especially as he was such an independent proud man- being so dependent has been really hard for him...but again, it shows his love for Fitz, that Fitz's need come before his own...that is true love.


message 4: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments It was a lovely chapter. This is also the first time that the bond is recreated and the name is used, when everyone--F&F&reader--knows what it means. Beloved is now Fitz's true name, powerful enough to call him back from the stream.

Anyhow, just gorgeous. I love that Hobb has all these people mingle their psyches and bodies in various ways, while retaining their individuality. After the resurrection, Fitz and the Fool were one being, without losing their individuality. Same was true of Nighteyes and Fitz. Same is probably true of the Skill stream and coterie dragons. It's true of the Fool's triptych. Three separate beings, yet one at the same time.

Hm. Is Hobb Christian? This is very trinitarian.


message 5: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Junie wrote: "please buy a cottage somewhere warm next to a river with fresh fish and has a huge flower bed so Fool can wake up everyday smelling them "
Aww! I love this suggestion.


message 6: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Back when they had the argument, I expected Fitz to ask forgiveness by giving the Fool flowers. Just one more thing to add to the wishlist.


message 7: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Scarletine wrote: "Alfred wrote: "“Begin with the End in mind..."

Tx! The last few chapters were so sob-worthy and as you say, back to form. Hard to stay macho and maintain you English folks' stiff upper lip. I am a wuss...


message 8: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "Alfred wrote: "“Begin with the End in mind..."

Tx! The last few chapters were so sob-worthy and as you say, back to form. Hard to stay macho and maintain you English folks' stif..."


I'll take a wuss over a Good old British stiff upper lip, any day. :-) Anyone who didn't shed a tear while reading those chapters has a heart of stone.


message 9: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Speaking of wuss, Fitz justified to himself why he couldn’t heal Fool’s eyesight. So, it seemed overly coincidental that the topic of not healing Fool’s eyesight came up a few times in the last 2 chps. So during this mass healing gone wrong, Fool held Fitz’s hand, “Someone took my hand and held it tightly. I felt the fabric of a glove against my skin”. To my alarm, Fitz said, ”It was hard to use my eyesight when the Skill flowed so strongly all around me.... My eyes were poor things, relying on light to show me the outer shapes of things.”

Is Fitz going to be blind in book 3??? (Gasp)


message 10: by luisi (last edited Dec 23, 2015 07:06AM) (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Alfred wrote: "Speaking of wuss, Fitz justified to himself why he couldn’t heal Fool’s eyesight. So, it seemed overly coincidental that the topic of not healing Fool’s eyesight came up a few times in the last 2 c..."

I saw it as the Skill giving him an awareness that something like mere eyesight couldn't match, but didn't his eyesight go dim when he tried to heal the Fool? So maybe he will go blind, or at least his eyesight will deteriorate.


message 11: by Ash09 (last edited Dec 23, 2015 08:04AM) (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Alfred wrote: "Is Fitz going to be blind in book 3"

Disaster potential is high. After skill healing Phron, Fitz notices a few grey hairs in his beard, so I was wondering if these types of healings are aging him. Another possibility is that Fitz takes on all the ills of those he heals.

So we'll have a very old, crippled and blind Fitz, helpless in Kelsingra, while Rapskal stages a coup, takes over, and tortures the Fool for decades. Merry Christmas from Hobb.

Junie wrote: "Noooooo!!! I need Fitzy to see Paragon!!!"

lol ita this is why the above scenario is unlikely, knock on wood, sacrifice a goat, pray to Hobb.


message 12: by Alfred (last edited Dec 23, 2015 08:00AM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "lol ita this is why the above scenario is unlikely, knock on wood, sacrifice a goat, pray to Hobbi

This is too funny I can't reply. So, "oh no", "bitch" and "knock twice for me" respectively to all 3 of your comments.


message 13: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "lol ita this is why the above scenario is unlikely, knock on wood, sacrifice a goat, pray to Hobbi

This is too funny I can't reply. So, "oh no", "bitch" and "knock twice for me" resp..."


I think Fitz was channeling fools maladys. I can't recall but did fools eyesight improve and Fitzy's diminish? Could this mean that even though he is now imprisoned, fool/amber has his sight?


message 14: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Junie wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "Fitz notices a few grey hairs in his beard, so I was wondering if these types of healings are aging him. "

I think he's definitely paying a toll for the healings... ! although I am n..."


Blindness, aging are kind of permanent. If this is poor Fitz's fate, then Hobb will have to start with Fitz in that state in Assassin's Fate, and go on with it all through that book. That's dark, even for Hobb. So I'm hoping that F&F somehow make it through with no immediate disasters, meet Paragon, have something resembling a split second of happiness, even if it's just wrist touching. THEN everyone dies.

I fear.


message 15: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "I fear.

And I shudder.

I think it was alluded to that there will be some funny Paragon moments. Hang on to that thought and hope for the best.


message 16: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "I fear.

And I shudder.

I think it was alluded to that there will be some funny Paragon moments. Hang on to that thought and hope for the best."


Yes, i shudder too. If i were Hobb, i wouldn't like to be remembered as the fantasy author who cock teased readers with the intimacy of F/F's relationship through three trilogies, just to let everyone die in the end.

Lets all just hope for the best!


message 17: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments When I found out about Bee's pov, I half jokingly thought that Hobb was going to kill off F/F just so ppl would stop asking her to write another Fitz book. If she ever does write another book set in the 6D, it's going to be weird not reading it from Fitz's pov, especially if he doesn't die at the end of AF.

Bee has that vision from the end of her life about her dad carving the wolf dragon. Some people think that the person could be the Fool, especially if Fitz is aging more rapidly than he should. It could be that the Fool has a longer life span than Bee because he's more pure White than her, which would explain why he's still alive when Bee is that old. Anyway, it's possible that Fitz lives long enough to carve the wolf and then the Fool finishes it when he can't stand living without Fitz.


message 18: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments I'm one of those people who think this "father" is Fool because of the multiple references to gray. Bee "at the end of her days" may imply old age but it could also mean end of her life? I mean she can still die for reasons other than old age, and saw her own end (like Fool did in Tawny Man)?

This dying into the wolf carving thing seem so....cliché. Most people (and me, reluctantly) think that's the ending for F/F... (Oshun: here's to your anti-cliffhanger sentiments! If this dream truly showed The End for F/F).

I kind of want to see F/F not die a tragic death just because their whole lives have been fraught with tragedies. It'll be nice if they simply went to bed, hold hands and sleep together one final time into oblivion.

Like Ash09, I stumbled into AA recently (early 2014). As I was suffering from Game of Thrones withdrawal! George said Hobb was "Fantasy as it should be written", and that piqued my interest. Anyway, I don't know how you, and sounds like Oshun too, live with that big time gap from FF to FA..... As for Bee's own series and her own POV, I really feel like that's the future installment. It'll be about Bee and all the young cast (Per, Spark, Lant, Shun etc)


message 19: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Junie wrote: "what's rapskal's problem?? "

Tellator's memories have possessed Rapskal. Tellator was ambitious. He was also a murderer. He wants the silver and I think he wants the kingship.


message 20: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments I still remember thinking that AQ was the end for Fitz. Then Hobb promised a cameo from TF in TLT, which made me eagerly read TLT thinking that it was going to be Fitz. Then we got TTM, and I had to wait 3-4 years for FF because I had to leave the country for awhile, and where I lived didn't have "proper" libraries or bookstores. When I did manage to read FF, the ending killed a bit of my love for the series. I only rediscovered the fandom back around 2013, and then the new trilogy was leaked by Amazon, and now here I am waiting for the last book again. I'm not sure how I coped with all that waiting and uncertainty, but it's killing me now.

I hope Fitz panicks and punches Rapskal or uses the wit to repel the guards holding Amber. Defend his lady's honour! Malta and Reyn will probably stop the commotion, but Amber will certainly have some explaining to do.

If Tellator was one of the old Elderlings wouldn't he had the Silver? Maybe that's why he wants it back so bad, although I would think he would know where it's kept. Or maybe not all the Elderlings had it. I should probably take advantage of the delay and actually read RWC.


message 21: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments luisi wrote: "If Tellator was one of the old Elderlings wouldn't he had the Silver?"

I don't think all elderlings knew Silver magic. His lover knew how to work the Silver. Tellator was a general, not a craftsman. Thymara makes memory contact with the lover, but doesn't allow the memories to possess her.


message 22: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "I'm one of those people who think this "father" is Fool because of the multiple references to gray. Bee "at the end of her days" may imply old age but it could also mean end of her life? I mean she..."

I only found the books in early 2014 too. It would have driven me crazy to have to wait for Fools Fate, and then another 10 years after for FQ. I am lucky that i found the books at the right moment for me. They inspired fanfic and then me writing and releasing my own books. Reading Hobb's work really did change my life. So no matter what happens I am grateful to have found these wonderful characters.


message 23: by Ash09 (last edited Dec 24, 2015 03:11PM) (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Junie wrote: "Is Tellator is still living in Rapskal because Rapskal is so power hungry... I mean he was borderline insubordinate to Malta and Reyn... and I really worry that Malta and Reyn don't have any real power... and their dragon Tintinglia is off somewhere while Rapskal's dragon is in Kelsingra... "
There's a bit in RW where Rapskal encourages Thymara to allow his gf's memories in, and Thymara does, for a short time, then goes back to being herself. idk why Rapskal allows Tellator possess him; idk if this was expected for elderlings.

ita that Tellator seems to have some of the Kelsingra warriors on his side, and yes, he has his dragon with him. He is scary, especially as Malta and Reyn are glorified spokespeople for a group of merchants. idk if Malta and Reyn are aware of how dangerous he is.


message 24: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Junie wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "Reading Hobb's work really did change my life. "

That is very inspiring when books change people's life and people do wonderful things after that....I am not sure how it changed..."


Junie, Hobb inspired me to write. I wrote F/F mm fanfic and then realized how much i loved writing. I've released 4 books this year and have just signed a deal to get one of my books translated into French and sold in France. I also have book 1 of my own fantasy trilogy to finish in 2016. So that is how her books have changed my life. :-)


message 25: by Ash09 (last edited Dec 25, 2015 08:59PM) (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments In a City of Dragons, Alise finds a carving or something of Realdar's WP: "A girl with her face and arms painted white, in a gown decorated with gilt to mimic golden thread. Golden, too, was her crown of feathers and rooster heads." Maybe she's carved out of memory stone.

edit: Has anyone explained what this cock crown is all about? I know that the memories of four or five performers are in it, but there's got to be more to it than that. There's a room dedicated to it in another city. Why is it associated with both the Fool and Realdar's WP?


message 26: by luisi (last edited Dec 25, 2015 10:26PM) (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Ash09 wrote: "In a City of Dragons, Alise finds a carving or something of Realdar's WP: "A girl with her face and arms painted white, in a gown decorated with gilt to mimic golden thread. Golden, too, was her cr..."

Because the WP was a performer as well? The crown was apparently an honor bestowed on performers, and the WP was proud to wear it since not many foreigners got to, and Realdar asked for it since he wanted something that belonged to her. Amber recognized the crown from the vision about the female WP, and assumed it was something important. That's all I remember.


message 27: by Alfred (last edited Dec 26, 2015 09:56AM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments luisi wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "of Realdar's WP: "A girl with her face and arms painted white, in a gown decorated with gilt to mimic golden thread. Golden, t..."

The mere mention of "golden" on this statue of girl WP gave me goosebumps. The girl WP, life like statues of performers, the rooster crown, Realder... Are all linked somehow and will hopefully be tied back to the story later.

Luisi: you are right, girl WP was a foreigner in Kelsingra. Much like Amber was a foreigner in Bingtown. In chp 36 or 37, Fitz asked Amber if she has ever been to Kelsingra. Amber said she seems to recall having been here before but as someone else. As girl WP maybe? Fool and girl WP superimposed while standing on the skill pillar (AQ) also seem to point to them being the same person (different lives).

Ash09: agree the rooster crown is significant to F/F! Does that mean they will both go back to girl on dragon in next book since it's there? Maybe Fitz will have to kiss the girl on dragon to get it back Haha. Do you remember how many gems are left on the crown? There were 5 points for 5 feathers and 5 gems originally. And only 2? 3? Gems left...maybe the remaining gems represent F/F somehow. Strike that. Far fetched.


message 28: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "luisi wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "of Realdar's WP: "A girl with her face and arms painted white, in a gown decorated with gilt to mimic golden thread. Golden, t..."

The mere mention of "golden" on this ..."


I think when Amber said that she had been to Kelsingra as someone else...could that not be the dragon blood speaking? Fool is having dragon memories and they all congregated around kelsingra to avail of the silver well. The someone doesn't necessarily have to be in human form!

I thought we had already dealt with the rooster crown? It is for storing the memories of performers who are favored by dragons. So when they died their essence was transferred to the crown. The wearer would basically be a puppet, taken over by whichever performer was useful for their task. I think that is the connection with fool- puppets! In the vision, Realder wore the crown, but i 'reality' Fool is already a seasoned performer and would not need an artificial means of performing. Its a bit like Wizardwood karaoke! He is far too talented to need it.

Whatever happened to the rooster crown anyway. I lost track of it after fool was resurrected.


message 29: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Realder's dragon aka Girl-on-a-Dragon has it; the Fool gave it over in exhange for Fitz's memories/emotions. The crown served its purpose, and I don't think it has more meaning to F/F. They even seemed to loose interest in it when they find out what it actually is, with Fitz even asking the Fool why he would want something like that.


message 30: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments luisi wrote: "Realder's dragon aka Girl-on-a-Dragon has it; the Fool gave it over in exhange for Fitz's memories/emotions. The crown served its purpose, and I don't think it has more meaning to F/F. They even se..."

Ah that's right! Thanks for reminding me. :-)


message 31: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Scarletine wrote: "I think when Amber said that she had been to Kelsingra as someone else...could that not be the dragon blood speaking?...doesn't necessarily have to be in human form!.."

Very true! Haha I am biased by my own hope that there is a human connection rather than a reptilian one. So much that every dot I find, I try to connect it somehow, whether there is merit or not. At this juncture in the story - last chapters of book 2 - there remains so many possibilities of what could happen. And we're not even talking old loose ends, but new ones newly created. Hobb is very ambitious to combine RWC, LST and F/F. If I am a betting man, I bet book 3 will become book 3A and 3B. It boggles my mind how everything will get wrapped up - if we judge anything at all by the significant volume of discussions we have had here about the why's and how's and who's and what's.

So on what is the purpose of the rooster crown... I think you and Luisi are most likely right, that it has outlived its usefulness at the end of FF. Nip the rooster crown in the bud and move on without creating any more ripples. However, like Ash09, I have some lingering questions on why an important room (was this where TinTin was found by Malta?) is marked with the rooster crown. Why not mark with a butterfly, dragon or Elderling something. Why mark the room at all? Why rooster heads carved on the crown, why not dragons heads? Why a bird? Haha this could go on and on.

Junie: "so who do you think will help Fitzy and amber after Rapskal's arrest?? maybe phron and all the people healed??"

Hmm Hypothetically, it would be the ones equal in dragon power to Rapskal (Heeby) and his 2 sidekicks, Kase and Boxter. So we would need at least 3 Elderlings and 3 dragons. Arbuc the green dragon is here, which means Alum his Keeper is too but I don't recall he needed healing. The dragons of parents with healed children, Thymara (Sintara), Tats (Fente), Nortel (Tinder), Malta/Reyn (TinTin) are absent and anyway, uncaring about their Elderlings' children. Whereabouts of Sedric (Relpda) and Carson (Spit)'s dragons are unknown. They may not care about an adopted child anyway. Unless the humans/Elderlings band up against Rapskal and friends, F/F would have to rely on their own ingenuity to escape. Once again!


message 32: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments So much we don't know about Kelsingra politics. Are Malta and Reyn popular? Who is siding with Rapskal, other than Kase and Boxter?

F&F have a bargaining chip: Kelsingra is not thriving, and the new elderlings haven't figured out how to handle Silver. Fitz's relationship with Silver is complicated (putting it mildly) but he might be able to help them here.


message 33: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Fitz is there as a Farseer prince so I doubt they would want to anger the Farseers, who have a bigger military than the Elderlings. Sure, they have the dragons but most of them seem to be fickle assholes.


message 34: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments All the above is true - if they have time to negotiate or the military to arrive - in the long run.

In the short run though, Heeby could eat them all in an instant. Time is not on their side.

I recall Malta looking scared and Reyn yelling for people to back off but the crazy mob kept coming anyway. And Fitz lost his skill with the elfbark. My bet is on Motley to rally for help! Somehow. Per made it a point to say that Motley is safe but in the mountains as the talking dead spooks her.


message 35: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Maybe Verity will come help, lol.


message 36: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments If Rapskal wants the Silver so badly, he will probably interrogate Amber, which might buy them some time... actually, that sounds too awful.

We know that the Fool survives anyway because RH was wondering why she thought it was a good idea to have so-and-so and the Fool interact.


message 37: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Junie wrote: "Yikes it would be soooo awful if Rapskal slices off Amber's skin to get the silver off the hand since he is soooo possessive of the silver!"

Fool had the skin flayed off his back, and tortured to death. Then he got resurrected, was possibly raped on his way to his "school," where he was tortured, blinded, crippled, scarred, flayed, impaled for years and years.

I think further torture and flaying is overkill (literally).


message 38: by Alfred (last edited Dec 28, 2015 06:38PM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "I think further torture and flaying is overkill (literally). ."

Haha I'm with you. Even the 2nd torture I thought was pushing it, but more sadistic acts on Fool either by the antagonist or the author would be just sensationalism.

Coming back to Amber touching Fitz with the silver and calling him "Beloved" to re-brand his identity. "BELOVED! The word echoed through me, rebounded from my fraying edges, found and bound me."

Contrast this to Chade and Fitz in the skill pillar where Chade couldn't be called back by any of his known names.

Whatever names Fitz had as a child (e.g. Keppet) or later in life, I think Beloved has always been his name through time, in past life and now. Perhaps that's why Fitz is able to erase his memory of his childhood name of Keppet with Skill (or at least, someone else was able to) but Beloved can't be erased because that's his forever Name.

Has anyone done a Middle English (or any language!) search on "Realder" and "Redda" (Hoquin's catalyst). Wondering is there is a correlation.


message 39: by Ash09 (last edited Dec 28, 2015 08:10PM) (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Alfred wrote: "search on "Realder" and "Redda" "

Here's a good MED online: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/looku...

Scarletine asked Hobb about "Keppet," and she said that it was a "lovely coincidence."

Problem with Middle English is that the spelling was unregulated, so there are tons of different ways of writing out a word, often based on dialect, individual eccentricity, whatever. I looked up Redda, under "red." Definitions included the noun "advice," or "read," in the past tense, and included too many forms to count.

"Realdar," is more difficult. "Real," could mean "real," as in modern English, but was more often used as "royal." I've no idea how "dar" affects the word. I could try and figure it out in Old English, but that might be going too far!

Hobb would know best that "Keppet" was a lovely coincidence. It's the perfect coincidence, given "Beloved." These words, though, idk. Middle English is so crazy that a Modern English speaker can't cough, without the sound ending up as some form of a Middle English word.


message 40: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "Here's a good MED online: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/looku.... Scarletine asked Hobb about "Keppet," and she said that it was a "lovely coi..."

Thks for the link! You are right, it is a coincidence but a perfect, lovely one. There are so many subjective variations, the meaning is open to any interpretation. Still it was fun. Regarding Hobb's response, she couldn't possibly say anything else either!

Anyway, just for fun, I typed in "red*" for Redda. which spewed out a long list of red-something.. This two caught my eye

"rēdels (n.)" - implying riddle, dreams, religious mystery

(a) A riddle, problem, an enigma, a puzzle; also, a trick, deception; (b) areden (expounen, undon) ~, to solve a riddle; reden ~, solve a riddle; also, speak in riddles [quot.: 1483]; also, interpret a dream [quot.: a1475]; seien ~, tell the solution of a riddle; in ~ wise, enigmatically, obscurely; (c) a religious mystery.

And, "reddǒur (n.)" - implying severity of treatment (just like Hoquin's treatment of Redda?)

(a) Severity, sternness, rigor, strictness; also, firmness of mind; also, a rule of a religious order [quot.: Rule Minoresses]; (b) severe treatment; (c) don (putten) ~, to deal strictly or severely, carry out strict treatment; don ~ on (upon), setten ~ to, deal harshly or strictly with (sb.), carry out strict treatment of (sb.); haven ~, receive strict treatment; (d) severity of rain; (e) harm, wrong, violence; also, a harm, wrong, violent act; don ~, to commit injury, do acts of violence.

Nothing came out for Realder, as you said. I tried "Alder*" instead and this came out

"alder (n.(2)" - implying (ta daa...)

A leader; prince, chieftain, elder; hundredes ~, centurion.!!!

Of course, this is all BS. (I tried Alfred, nothing. Alf* came out with "alfita" for "Barley Meal". Gee.. thanks, ancestors.)


message 41: by Ash09 (last edited Dec 29, 2015 09:25AM) (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Alfred wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "Here's a good MED online: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/looku.... Scarletine asked Hobb about "Keppet," and she said that it was a "lovely coi..."

Thks for the link! You are rig..."

Alfred would be Old English. "Red" you know is "advice." "Aelf" is "elf." So you're an elven adviser, or elven advice, or something like that. It's a great name.

Also look up Alfred the Great. Bernard Cornwell has a series about him.


message 42: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "So you're an elven adviser, or elven advice, or something like that. It's a great name."

Awww thanks. I knew there was greatness in my ancestry. Apparently, my great (x 10) grandfather was also an elf, which now explains my pointy ears.


message 43: by Alfred (last edited Dec 30, 2015 05:36AM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments (Side note: I just noticed the date on when we started this chapter by chapter discussion - Almost 4 months! Wow!)

I meant to comment on this for chp 37 but got side-tracked with my Christmassy stuff. The F/F bond appears to be a kind of conduit between Fitz and Fool, where “stuff” is exchanged. We saw early evidence of that when Fitz mirrored Fool’s wounds through their Skill-healing. Fitz may be losing his vision by inadvertently taking on Fool’s blindness through that super-charged healing, although that is speculative at this point. I’m curious if Fitz also gained some prophetic abilities and also lost his Skill-longevity to Fool.

As the mob crowds in, Fitz thought in a detached faraway sort of way, ”This I knew in a dispassionate way. I would fall, Lant would go down holding on to me, the grim youngsters trying to hold back the crowd would stumble backward, and we would be trampled.” Obviously this is quite a stretch of Fitz “seeing” what would happened “next”. I mean, anyone would logically expect to be trampled when one is mobbed. No prophetic abilities needed.

However, as Fitz contemplated giving up to the Skillstream due to guilt and worries, his thoughts eerily sounded like a... vision? ”The worst were the sharp-edged hopes that I still clung to. The hope that somewhere, somehow, Bee still existed and would tumble intact from a Skill-pillar.”. He hit it right on the mark with that as Bee did tumble out of the pillar come Springtime. Either that or subconsciously he knew that was a possibility but he always gave up too easily (as Verity would say).

Admittedly, I am stretching this rubber band of imagination to the maximum. It’s just the way Fitz says it, that seems to hint at something less deductive but more prophetic.

Oh, and I wondered if Fitz's aging (gray whiskers) was due to him losing life to Fool. Fool's increasing vitality is inversely proportional to Fitz's longevity. Maybe someone else already mentioned this too.


message 44: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments Alfred wrote: "I’m curious if Fitz also gained some prophetic abilities and also lost his Skill-longevity to Fool. "

He may have. There's so much potential for damage it's upsetting. I'm hoping that whatever happens, Fitz doesn't leave Kelsingra a mess. Oy.

I think "we're going to be trampled!" is, as you say, normal. Imagining Bee's survival doesn't have to be prophetic. He hasn't seen his daughter's body, and he knows that people have survived long periods of time in the pillars. Also, that morning Fitz dreamt of Bee telling him that he "gave up hope too easily," so there's a reason for this thought to pop up at this moment. Even then, he thinks that it was "far more likely" that she's in the Skill stream he's trying to disappear into.

"My eyes were poor things, relying on light to show me the outer shapes of things," doesn't imply blindness. This is how humans see. Skill takes him so deep that normal human vision seems poor in comparison. At this moment, Skill is taking over all his senses, including his Wit. At the end, though, he's seeing again; he "looks" at the Fool's glove; he sees the Fool's hand, his silvered fingers.

Anyhow, we're going to have to wait, I guess, to see what happens.


message 45: by luisi (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments Fitz has always had moments of "knowing," and I believe that the Fool once said that he might just be descended from the Whites as well, which must be true since Bee happened. Also, there must be a reason why the Fool was convinced that the Farseer term referred to Fitz instead of being generally because of the Skill (or Bee who's actually a "seer").


message 46: by Alfred (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Ash09 wrote: "At the end, though, he's seeing again; he "looks" at the Fool's glove; he sees the Fool's hand, his silvered fingers. "

You're right, I was myopic on that. Fitz saw Fool's silver prints very clearly so he did not lose vision. And Bee (not Verity) or someone he thought was her commented on his lack of faith.

Luisi: I'm re-reading AA into chp 2 or 3. Perhaps initially Fool didn't know exactly know which Farseer was his catalyst. He just knew he had to be in Buck with the Farseers. When he heard about Fitz, it fits with his vision and I think he "tested" Fitz by feeding him the "Fats suffices" line to see what changes he make.


message 47: by Scarletine (new)

Scarletine | 469 comments Alfred wrote: "I'm re-reading AA into chp 2 or 3. Perhaps initially Fool didn't know exactly know which Farseer was his catalyst. He just knew he had to be in Buck with the Farseers. When he heard about Fitz, it fits with his vision and I think he "tested" Fitz by feeding him the "Fats suffices" line to see what changes he make. .."

That's rights, 'Fitz fits fat suffices' confused me alot the first time i heard the audio of AA. I had no idea who this curious pale young man was, but i got a tingle that he would be significant. It was when Fitz suceeded in using fat to stop the pup from choking-imparting info to the young Duchess (?) that changes began. Fitz did fit and Fool was smitten.
Can you imagine Fool, alone in his tower room full of toys, cradling the doll as if it were a baby, when it was him that needed a hug. It breaks my heart.


message 48: by Alfred (last edited Dec 30, 2015 07:59AM) (new)

Alfred Haplo (alfredhaplo) | 550 comments Scarletine wrote: "..Can you imagine Fool, alone in his tower room full of toys, cradling the doll as if it were a baby, when it was him that needed a hug. It breaks my heart. "

Do you or anyone remember what the doll looked like? I wonder what is the significance of the doll...

Edit: the reason I asked - does the doll look like Bee?


message 49: by luisi (last edited Dec 30, 2015 09:30AM) (new)

luisi (azurenight) | 125 comments I think the doll might have been blond? But then the Fool likes blond. His sister and GoaD were blond, and I believe that so were Lant's mother, Jek, the mountain woman, and Garetha. Actually, he's a blond as well now, isn't he? Edit: I found the passage, and the doll is described as pale and delicate with a faint rose to cheeks, and the coverlet it was convered with had pansies in it. Bee's cradle was surrounded by screens with pansies, and Revel once brought her and Molly pansies from the hothouse.

This is back in RA: 'Farseer!' He cocked his head and peered at me, considering as a gore-crow. 'Why do they call you that, Fitz? What have your ancestors ever forseen afar to gain such a name? Shall I tell you how it comes about? The very name of your house is the future reaching back in time to you, and naming you by the name that someday your house will deserve.

I assumed the Farseer name had to do with the Skill since they could look at what was happening from afar, like Shrewd/Fitz at the beginning of RA when they witness a village being attacked.


message 50: by Ash09 (new)

Ash09 | 404 comments luisi wrote: "The very name of your house is the future reaching back in time to you, and naming you by the name that someday your house will deserve."

Sounds like the dynasty was named after a prophecy they would someday fulfill. Is Fitz about to become a prophet and king in fulfillment of the prophecy?

Re the doll in the Fool's room: Always assumed that was the Fool, trying to ease his exile by recreating his happy childhood. Maybe he started off the same color as Bee and the doll, then shed to become white, the way Bee does? And then maybe it's Bee, the child Fool knew he'd have. If so, kudos to Hobb for working this in fourteen volumes later.


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