Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion

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message 1: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 600 comments Mod
OK - people are raving up one side and down the other on this episode. I have nothing against the acting (excellent), the setting (any idea about the castle?), or even some of the plot. However, I really, really don't like psychological, twisty, bendy things or stories. They drive me up the wall and I did not enjoy this story. Even the ending, which made me squee Smiley a bit with the reveal and the hybrid thing (TVM or something else?) did not make up for the rest of the story.


message 2: by Elena (new)

Elena (alostgeek) I liked it a lot, but I had been expecting something slightly different, with less interaction with imaginary Clara.

I'll put the next bit in spoilers just in case, although I suppose that whoever reads this thread has watched the episode already.

(view spoiler)

I'm really looking forward to the next episode.


message 3: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 600 comments Mod
Hellen wrote: "(view spoiler)"

(view spoiler)


message 4: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1430 comments Capaldi was rock solid while acting against numerous empty rooms, but was stronger than the writing.
Moffatt really gave it his all, but fell short, as the last fifteen minutes kind of stumbled along.

Once we get the first reveal, the plot holes started to show. The reveal of who was behind everything was pretty cool, but the last reveal went down with a leaden thud.

Some really good bits, but man, Moffatt has written himself into a corner that I don't know how successfully he can get himself/the story thread out of it.
Wait and see, but I've got my arms crossed and my 'okay, Moffatt, impress me' attitude.


message 5: by Jack (new)

Jack Bowden | 29 comments Kidding? The last fifteen minutes were some of the best stuff Moff's ever done


message 6: by Andrew (new)

Andrew | 25 comments I thought it was excellent. The two people I was watching it hated it, saying "oh there's no plot", "boring!". But I thought it was a fascinating premise. One setting, one actor (really) - highly surreal and experimental. I also personally thought the twist at the end was a stroke of genius, the sheer realization of what the Doctor had gone through was pretty impressive. I also thought there was some absolute wonderful bits of dialogue.

I'm curious though Travis at what the plot holes are? Of the top of my head I can't think of any, and I may have massively ignored them?


message 7: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1430 comments Andew wrote: "I thought it was excellent. The two people I was watching it hated it, saying "oh there's no plot", "boring!". But I thought it was a fascinating premise. One setting, one actor (really) - highly s..."

If the Doctor was doing a constant loop, how did the clothes keep ending up by the fireplace?
For one cycle was Capaldi naked?
Where did the first set of clothes come from?

If the rooms kept resetting, how did the dent in the diamond wall get bigger?

I get why the Doctor kept repeating the same actions, but why did the wraith keep repeating the same thing over and over as well?

Not to rag on the episode, as there are some brilliant moments, Capaldi hits it out of the park so many times and I applaud some of the risky gambles Moffatt has taken, but at the same time, I am not thrilled with some of his choices, as they seem come to from Moffatt not having anyone able to say 'Really Stephen? You sure?"
I felt the big, hit you over the head dramatic things tended to drown out the smaller, better things.

I am willing to sit back and let Moffatt impress me/prove me wrong with the finale, as there have been a couple moments where I was convinced he had dropped the ball and Moffatt surprised/impressed me.


message 8: by Andrew (new)

Andrew | 25 comments Ah...yes. Now you mention it, it is 'bleedin obvious isn't it? Hmm, well, timey wimey wibbly wobbly again? :/ It's moments like I'm always reminded by this clip from Spongebob Squarepants (with Stephen Moffat being the Gorilla, and sorry, excuse the humour from my childhood :p).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md22W...

I've never been entirely comfortable with all that Moffat does either. I think Peter Capaldi's tenure has been much better than Matt Smith's in quality, but often all the timey wimeys can get exhausting. It's got to a point where in my family we're like "oh it's another timey wimey, that explains it". Like it's become convention, no longer very surprising.


message 9: by Jack (new)

Jack Bowden | 29 comments The diamond wall was the actual wall between the confession dial and the outside world (aka Gallifrey) so it was real and not just a construct of a dial. It's the same reason we see things that have been brought in from the outside, like the Doctor's skull, his clothes and the painting of Clara don't reset.


message 10: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1430 comments I will give you the diamond wall, if it was the wall of the disk, but if the skulls are the Doctor, than at one time the ocean was empty, then there was one skull.

Now, apply that logic to the clothes and unless Capaldi ran around in his question mark underpants after the first dive into the water, Moffatt times-whimey'd himself into a corner.


message 11: by Elena (new)

Elena (alostgeek) But what about the Doctor's blood on the hallway? That does disappear.

Maybe the Doctor in the firt cycle never found that room again and could not get his clothes back, but this wasn't a problem for the next Doctors because they didn't need to get them back.


message 12: by Travis (new)

Travis (travishiltz) | 1430 comments Hellen wrote: "But what about the Doctor's blood on the hallway? That does disappear.

Maybe the Doctor in the firt cycle never found that room again and could not get his clothes back, but this wasn't a problem..."


The blood disappears, the clothes don't, like the skulls, they are always there and he was repeating the same cycle 20 billion times, but it wasn't a loop.
There's a beginning and an end.

There had to be a first time that the wet clothes were put by the fire.


message 13: by Becci (new)

Becci | 6 comments Hellen wrote: "But what about the Doctor's blood on the hallway? That does disappear. "

It is stated in the episode that only some rooms reset, which explains the blood disappearing, why the clothes are always there (apart from first run, that is weird) and why the wall (as mentioned by others) doesn't reset.

I loved this episode - it was the first one (including the original series) to make me feel really uncomfortable. Doctor Who doesn't usually do psychological that much, so it was a pleasure.
Was thrilled that my random thought about BIRD turned out to be right.. though I did have to explain the story behind it to a few people even though it was explained in the episode.
The fact that the Doctor accepted the disc as a personal punishment as well as a means to access Gallifrey speaks volumes about his mental condition across the series, I feel.


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