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breaking dawn
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Magen
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Jul 17, 2009 06:41PM
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Renesme was a better name than Nessie.
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I loved the book, but she crammed too much in it. I would have liked to see this book broken up into two books and more detail in each one. Maybe had the birth of renesmee at the end of the book and then a second book to pick up from there with Bella's transformation and Jake imprinting, and finally a more dramatic fight at the end. Although I love that no one important died and that Bella saved the day with her shield! :-)I thought I'd never stop crying when she put Renesmee on Jake's backand said g-bye to them! OMG-sobs!!
I loved the wedding, the birth, Renesmee and Jacob, and the whole transformation. I just loved it but i would really love to see what happens after BD. I also loved all the other Vampires....they were so interesting.
Katie wrote: "i agree wiv everything that u just sed missy"
=) thank you Katie!
=) thank you Katie!
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i totally agree with you!!! such a good idea! : )
I'm in the middle of reading it so... I don't know my favorite parts and whatever yet! But I LOVE it! so far..........................................
I loved Twilight, loved the end of New Moon, was very annoyed by Eclipse and hated Breaking Dawn. I have never been so disappointed by a book ever.
First of all, it was never mentioned once that there were any legends about vamps having babies, as careful as Edward was, don't you think he would have been careful had heard these rumors? Also, a succubus is a demon, not a vampire that preys on women. Third, that birth scene was disgusting. He was munching on her uterus for crying out loud. So gross. And the whole Jacob imprinting on a baby is sick. Just sick. I don't know what SM was thinking, but she murdered her characters.
well I just started it 2 days ago and I'm on page like 150 so..
Don't get me wrong, if you like it, that's great. But I waited for that book for four years, and the series deserved a better ending. There was supposed to be a price attached to Bella's immortality. She never once wanted a baby, and then all of the sudden, she is choosing Rosalie over her husband and love of her life...That was so childish, and out of character, not to mention a break from the cannon of the series as there aren't supposed to be vampire babies.And I just was wierded out by the fact that Jake would change the diapers of his future wife. That's just so wrong and not the least bit romantic.
But, I was glad that Bella and Edward got married, and I thought it was sweet that he finally got hear her thoughts.
There were good parts to BD, I guess I was just expecting better. More action with the volturi, no more fighting with Edward, no baby, so on.But like I said, I'm glad that Bella and Edward got there happy ending.
yeah I'm glad Bell and Edward got married!!
Heather wrote: "First of all, it was never mentioned once that there were any legends about vamps having babies, as careful as Edward was, don't you think he would have been careful had heard these rumors? Also, a..."i completely disagree! First of all SM did mention the fact that vampires couldn't have babies... but that was only with vampire female and vampire male... no one had ever heard of HALF vamp and HALF human because it was unheard of that any vampire had ever "mated" with a human AT THIS POINT IN THE BOOK. second of all SM never said that edward was a SUCCUBUS. edward merely stated that he heard of them... thirdly SM was warning her audience throughout the whole book that the birth would not be happy. throughout the whole book edward, carlisle and jacob were all thinking she was going to die while giving birth and all the while thinking of ways to save her. Edward tried to talk her out of having the baby because it was growing to fast and in order to give birth the baby would have to eat through the placenta because it was so hard that only razor sharp teeth could open it up, which is why he did it for the baby so to help bella.... and jacob was not the only one who imprinted on a baby. there was another wolf who imprinted on a 2 year old. thats not sick if he is just to look after her and be there for her. when she is old enough to be with someone she does not have to be with jacob. as long as jacob is in her life he is happy. not to mention the whole thing about bella running to rosalie and not listening to edward was bc yes she didnt want a baby but it happened and now that it happened she doesnt want to give it up. while rosalie wont let anything happen to her while she is pregnant (not that i like her bc it was just the baby she was after) her husband is trying to get rid of the baby. once you are pregnant your maternal instincts kick in and you love that being inside more than your own life. its just the way you think... you cant help it really...
Felicia, I respect your opinion. Disagree all you like. However, SM wrote a crap book, imo. First, SM wanted Bella to have a baby, and she knew she had written herself into a corner by mentioning in the first three books that Vampires can't have babies so she released a statement on her website that said, "but I never said human women couldn't have babies with vampires". I'm sorry, but if you can't explain your plot in your books and have to use your website to get your point across instead, you have written a crap story line that should be omitted from your book.
Secondly, If SM wasn't implying that Edward was a sucubbus, why mention it? Why does it matter to Edward that a scubbus can have children with human women if he is not a sucubbus? Either SM was implying that Edward is a succubus, which is wrong, or she mentioned a useless piece of trivia, which is crap.
Third, I don't care if she warned her readers about the birth being ugly, the birth never should have happened.
Forth, don't you think its a little out of character for Bella not to trust Edward? And a little out of character for Edward not to give Bella everything she wants?
Lastly, if you aren't mature enough to have an adult conversation with your husband about life or death issues, I would say that you are too immature to be married or make life or death decisions. I think it was horrible that Bella hid from her loving husband in the arms of Rosalie.
Oh, I forgot to mention the wrongness about Jake imprinting on Renesmee. Imagine if you will that you have grown up with your best friend, who happens to be a guy. This guy has a major crush on you, persues you, kisses you, lusts after you, probably has dirty thoughts about you. Then one day, you marry the love of your life, who is not your best friend by the way. You then get pregnant and have a baby daughter. Your best friend then decides that your innocent baby daughter is his soul mate. He will help you raise her, change her diapers, nurse her, help shape her personlity, and eventually have dirty thoughts about her as well and you can honestly tell me that would not bother you?
i agree with you on the whole thing with bella running to rosalie instead of edward however i also understand why she did it. "Secondly, If SM wasn't implying that Edward was a sucubbus, why mention it? Why does it matter to Edward that a scubbus can have children with human women if he is not a sucubbus? Either SM was implying that Edward is a succubus, which is wrong, or she mentioned a useless piece of trivia, which is crap."
it was mentioned because jacob was asking questions. so edward was just saying that he had heard of the succubus' and incubus' but had never heard of or thought of a vampire and human having a baby together.
"He will help you raise her, change her diapers, nurse her, help shape her personlity, and eventually have dirty thoughts about her as well and you can honestly tell me that would not bother you?"
if it was my daughter then yes it would bother me and if you recall bella and edward were not happy with it at all. but looking from the outside in i think that it could happen. granted i would be a little uncomfortable with it if i were the daughter but she doesnt have to be with him. and eventually i would get over it...tho it would definately take time lol... the age difference doesnt bother me i guess it all has to do with your personal life as well though. it doesnt bother me because my mother and father are 15 years apart.
I just want to preface my response that I mean all my statements in a friendly way and that I'm not trying to be rude, so please don't think that I am being mean. I'm just having fun debating the points.*deep breath*
There is a huge difference between being raised by your future husband, than having an age gap.
I don't have a problem with someone marrying a person 15 years their senior, but I do have a problem with someone marrying a person that raised them. In America, they make laws against that. Its just wrong.
And Edward never says he has never heard of vampires having children, he says and I quote ( I have heard rumors of sucubbus an incubbi, but I assumed it was just a myth. I guess now we know why".
From that statement, it is implied that incubbi and sucubbi are vamps, not demons, and that Edward didn't think to be careful because he assumed it was myth. He now believes that the reason that it was assumed to be a myth was because all the women die.
i know you are not being mean and i hope you know i am not being mean either! i am like you i am enjoying the debate*
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let me start by saying "In America, they make laws against that. Its just wrong." was funny! lol
anyways i see your point in a normal situation but you have to remember that this is a supernatural situation... jacob wont age nearly as fast as reneseme and again she does not have to be with jacob. he is not really raising her he is just there for bella and to help out if he is needed. no one said anything about him changing diapers. the imprint is one way not 2 so if reneseme doesnt want to be with him then she doesnt have to be.
"And Edward never says he has never heard of vampires having children, he says and I quote "I have heard rumors of sucubbus an incubbi, but I assumed it was just a myth. I guess now we know why."
i dont have the book so i am going on memory but now that you said that i remember. but to me that doesnt imlpy him being a succubus or an incubus it is just his oppinions and assumptions.
No worries Felicia :)I get that this is a supernatural story, I love supernatural stories, but they still need to be somewhat rooted in real life, especially if there are human characters in the story. What if there really were vampires? They would still have to abide by the laws of our world, just like you have to speak French if you go to France. Just because you are writing a supernatural book doesn't mean that pedophilia is suddenly accepted.
And again, if you are assuming that Edward was just giving his opinion about succubui or incubi, I ask, what does it matter what the thinks about a different species? If I got pregnant when I thought I couldn't, I wouldn't say, huh, well I guess I should have known, dogs get pregnant. What does it have to do with anything. So either SM was saying Edward was a incubus, which is wrong, or she put in that fact for no reason, in which case, she still has some explaining to do.
hmm... i will have to read the succubi again before i respond because i dont want to sound like i am an idiot... and as far as pedophilia goes, i dont look at it that way at all. in fact that never crossed my mind until this discussion... imprinting is completely different.
Imprinting occurs when a shapeshifter finds their soul mate. The moment the shapeshifter sees the one they are destined to be with, they imprint. It is described as having every connection with everything else severed and instead being only connected to this earth for the other person. After that, nobody else matters because you are only there for your other half, your soul mate.
If an imprinted person is killed by someone, the wolf who imprinted on them can never forgive the killer. If the killer happens to be another wolf from the pack, the wolves would have no choice but to fight to the death. For this reason, the most important law among the La Push shape-shifter pack is that no wolf may kill the object of a fellow wolf's imprinting.
It is unknown what would happen if a wolf was rejected by their imprinted one.
HOWEVER!
There are stages to imprinting, especially if the person on who the shapeshifter has imprinted is young. If the person is young, the shapeshifter will act as an older sibling. As the person gets older, the shapeshifter will also come to be their friend. When the person is old enough, the shapeshifter's feelings are suspected to grow into romantic love, but this hasn't been comfirimed.
so again i dont look at it as pedophillia.
I understood imprinting, but imprinting on a child, regardless of whether or not they reject you, is still disgusting. And Jake says himself that the girls don't reject them.And you brought up another flaw. Since when is Jacob a shapeshifter, oh yeah, not till the last book. For three books, this series only mentions two supernatural species, vamps and weres. Then all of the sudden, in the last 50 pages of the last book, we are told that Jake is a shapeshifter. That is a writing rule breaker.
I guess I just think SM's explaination of imprinting on a child is a load. She tried to make it okay by saying that they would just look at their soulmate as a friend or brother, then the relationship would change, but that's garbage.Relationships don't change in that way. I have a brother, and I would never look at him as any way other than a brother. You can't go from having that type of relationship to a romantic one, its wrong, just wrong, I don't really care what excuses or explainations SM tries to give.
If a dirty old man was on the stands of a trial for marrying a girl he raised and used imprinting as an exucse for his behavior, he would still go to jail.
actually jake said that the girls COULD reject them but WHY would they since they had everything they needed and someone to be there for them already. "Relationships don't change in that way. I have a brother, and I would never look at him as any way other than a brother. You can't go from having that type of relationship to a romantic one, its wrong, just wrong, I don't really care what excuses or explainations SM tries to give.
If a dirty old man was on the stands of a trial for marrying a girl he raised and used imprinting as an exucse for his behavior, he would still go to jail."
hmm.... again i didnt look at it that way... and you are right... point taken i bow out gracefully ... lol (on the imprinting anyway)
as far as the shapeshifter thing goes it is true that they were called werewolves but a werewolf is a shapeshifter is he not? its just that the werewolf doesnt have a choice on his shifting he has to shift on a full moon where as a shapeshifter can shift at will so technically SM didnt contradict herself on that.
Wow! I get busy for a day and I miss a totally juicy debate!! LOL! While respecting any and all opinions, my personal take on it is simple:
When reading fiction-especially supernatural/paranormal fiction, one must suspend judgments and what they believe to be true. Reality is purpously bent to bring the reader into an experience that they could not have in real life.
So, for me, things that would be unacceptable or even creepy in the real world are ok, because the author has made it so!
Thanks to both you for starting such an interesting dialogue!! :-)
yeah it brings out points that I haven't noticed and are going to look for!! lol
Ok ladies. I have read your debate and I just wanted to add my own two cents =) I am too doing this in a friendly debate fashion b/c you both bring up very valid views and arguments.
Ok so the whole succubus/incubus thing. My view on this was shaped by the first book and the research Bella did on vampires. She said that most of the stories she found on S and I seemed like stories told by cheating spouses. like,"No honey that wasn't a beautiful woman/man that i slept with leaving our bedroom. You must have seen the S/I leaving our room. Hurry call the priest we need to protect our home!" or something like that. I took this to mean that S and I were not actaul demons, people, vampires or anything. They were made up evil things that crept ito "innocennt" peoples rooms and had had sex with them in their sleep. So this is how I think it all ties together. People way back when witnessed vampires or new of vampires having sex with humans. Not wanting to get in trouble or not knowing what the vampires were these people claimed they were the fabled S and I. Does that make sense...ARRGH it did it my head..oh well..let me know
The Imprinting thing well I don't think it's creepy or wrong. I can totally see how people would. I guess I look at it like this: have you ever been best friends with a guy and it's great and the next thing you know you've fallen for him and you have no idea how you went from BFF to BF and GF? Well I think it is somthing along those lines. Yes Nessie can reject him and yes Jacob said that the girls usually don't but he also sadi that when they were both adults that it would be unlikly that she would reject him b/c of the level of devotion and caring that he shows for her. The whole age thing is kinda whishy fishy thing but hey Bella is 17 Edward is like 108. Yeah he's been 17 awhile so in appearances they are the same age but really not. That is the same thing with Nessie and Jake. B/C she grows to maturity so fast and he ages so slow they will appear to be the same age soon but will they be technically no
Well ladies theres my views...gr8 debate though! I love it!
Ok so the whole succubus/incubus thing. My view on this was shaped by the first book and the research Bella did on vampires. She said that most of the stories she found on S and I seemed like stories told by cheating spouses. like,"No honey that wasn't a beautiful woman/man that i slept with leaving our bedroom. You must have seen the S/I leaving our room. Hurry call the priest we need to protect our home!" or something like that. I took this to mean that S and I were not actaul demons, people, vampires or anything. They were made up evil things that crept ito "innocennt" peoples rooms and had had sex with them in their sleep. So this is how I think it all ties together. People way back when witnessed vampires or new of vampires having sex with humans. Not wanting to get in trouble or not knowing what the vampires were these people claimed they were the fabled S and I. Does that make sense...ARRGH it did it my head..oh well..let me know
The Imprinting thing well I don't think it's creepy or wrong. I can totally see how people would. I guess I look at it like this: have you ever been best friends with a guy and it's great and the next thing you know you've fallen for him and you have no idea how you went from BFF to BF and GF? Well I think it is somthing along those lines. Yes Nessie can reject him and yes Jacob said that the girls usually don't but he also sadi that when they were both adults that it would be unlikly that she would reject him b/c of the level of devotion and caring that he shows for her. The whole age thing is kinda whishy fishy thing but hey Bella is 17 Edward is like 108. Yeah he's been 17 awhile so in appearances they are the same age but really not. That is the same thing with Nessie and Jake. B/C she grows to maturity so fast and he ages so slow they will appear to be the same age soon but will they be technically no
Well ladies theres my views...gr8 debate though! I love it!
Nope Shapeshifters are not werewolves...As for suspending reality while reading, I agree, however, the reality that the author creates should be consistant within the series. Jake begins as a werewolf, ends as a shapeshifter, not consistant. Vamps can't have babies, by the end, vamps can have babies, not consistant. Also, what happened to all the angst? Edward was tormented by the idea of turning Bella, he thought he was destroying her soul, 3 books were dedicated to this, and then it went nowhere. There was no mention of a major plot point in the last book. That's crap.
Also, while SM did create the Twilight universe, she did not create the idea of vamps, weres, shapeshifters or demons. SM can make her vamps sparkle, but she can't make them demons. I think SM failed to do her homework. I doubt she even knows that an Incubus is a demon and not a vamp, and I can't stand an author who has no regard for what they write.
yes edward was tormented by the idea of turning bella but she would have been killed anyways. the volturi would have ended it for her. and if you recall he wasnt going to do it. she was going to get carlisle to change her. in the end they made a deal. but he still did not want to change her... even in the beginning of BD she didnt want to be turned because she was enjoying her sex life. he said well if i knew that sex was the key.... so on and so forth. as for the vamps having babies... yes but that was for females and male vamps. this was a human female so her organs never froze up. she could still reproduce. and SM never said anything within the first 3 books that the male organs remained frozen in place...the major plot point of the book was what was going to happen to Renesme? we already know the story of edward and bella. what is to happen with her will she live or die by the volturi or herself since she ages so rapidly? that was the point...
As far as the whole werewolf to shapeshifter...they only called themselves werewolves b/c they thought that's what they were...they were later informed by the volturi that that label was wrong and that shapeshifter was a more correct term. I don't think that's bad consistency I just think that it's change which takes place all the time in reality and in fiction. edward's agnst was still there in BD it's just that after doing what he had to to save Bella he saw that it was actually not so horrible..he had a change of heart. His character grew.
Missy wrote: "As far as the whole werewolf to shapeshifter...they only called themselves werewolves b/c they thought that's what they were...they were later informed by the volturi that that label was wrong and ..."i couldnt have said it better myself actually i think thats what i was trying to say you just explained it better haha
LOL thanx Felica. I'm glad it made sense. It was one of those things that made sense in my head and then after writing it out I thought "Hmmmm maybe that doesn't make sense"
the main reason why i liked breaking dawn, was because a part of it was from Jacob's point of view.
Yeah that added a new perspactive to the story Kinda like Midnight sun
well, im not gonna read Midnight Sun. i didnt like edwards point of character throughout the first four books, so i dont really care to read about his point of view
Hey Jenny I have a lil theory I'd like to test....could you tell me how old you are? My theory is that the majority of team Jacob girls on on the younger end of the spectrum.....who knows I could be totally wrong but most girls I know that are Jacob fans are 20 and younger...but those are just the ones i know so like i said i my theory might be nothing =D
i dont really like to tell my age online. sorry : (
oh totally understandable...you never know...but on the bright side you have helped my theory...LOL!
Katie wrote: "thats a great theory missy as am over 20 and is team edward lol"
LOL I know I've only met a handful of over 20 girls that are team Jacob so it got me thinking
LOL I know I've only met a handful of over 20 girls that are team Jacob so it got me thinking
well, whatever. i still dont quite see what ppl over 20 wud want to be wit edward. i mean, i thought that at that age ppl wud realize how boring life wud be wit edward. what ev.
well i like them both!! team JAKWARD! LOL
i thought it was called team switzerland
IDK. i was just making something up with their names in it lol
