Queen of Shadows (Throne of Glass, #4) Queen of Shadows discussion

Old readers of Queen of Glass on Fictionpress, what are your thoughts?

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Rebecca So I'm an early, like REALLY early circa 2003ish reader of Maas back when she was S.J. Maas posting on Fictionpress and ToG/CoM was Queen of Glass. I know there are quite a few of us since Maas had something like four thousand reviews back then and by now, anyone who read her old fiction has probably seen her name around and picked up her published series.

I'd like to know what you guys (old readers) think about what happened to the storyline, character development, and romantic pairings between ToG/CoM (Books 1 & 2, Chaol) and HoF/QoS (Books 3 & 4, Rowan). So by now, I've seen a LOT of reviews by people raging at what was done to the characters of Celaena & Chaol, individually and the ship, to Aelin & Rowan.

Here's the thing, I think knowing about Maas' publication history goes a long way toward explaining the changes. ToG and CoM were posted over a decade ago (I still have an old copy saved off FictionPress somewhere on my old laptop, in fact), although the published versions were edited and cleaned up. I actually stopped reading Queen of Glass sometime after Nehemia died, basically around when HoF started, because I was so furious with how Chaol suddenly "caused" her death. Actually, a lot of her readers back then were pretty mad about how Chaol's "betrayal" of Celaena was so forced. I'm pretty sure I still have old AIM chat conversations saved where my friend and I raged to each other. IMO, it still is/was the death blow to the pairing already.

I don't know exactly how much more Maas had posted online since I took a break from Queen of Glass over my broken Chaol fangirl heart. I think she did post more that was eventually edited into book 3 & 4, but by the time I got over my snit, she'd removed everything. Here's some things that I think readers should keep in mind though:

1. ToG/CoM was written way earlier than HoF/QoS. I don't know the exact timeline or if Maas ever talks about her Fictionpress days other than in the acknowledgments she wrote in the first book, but we're talking a pretty substantial time gap. I don't know exactly how old she was when she wrote Queen of Glass either, but going by my own age and the fact that it was a decade ago, she was most likely a teenager. The plot holes from those two books (e.g. why the King of Adarlan never recognized Celaena's ever so distinctive eyes, why she never bothered to try to find Aedion, or why the whole King's Champion competition was pointless to the real story) and stylistic changes in writing are almost certainly due to the fact that this was old material and Maas has grown as a writer and person herself as she's editing and writing more of this series.

2. The complaints that Chaolaena were sold as endgame are legitimate, probably since back then, it WAS endgame. I don't think most people know that Maas wrote and posted Queen of Glass online over a decade ago, around 2002 if I remember my dates correctly. I mean, believe it or not, at some point I know I read in an author's note that Queen of Glass was inspired by/a retelling of Cinderella of all things. What I think happened was that Maas was stuck trying to stitch together some old material with some new material. Speaking as someone who had to go back to write an ending for a 300k word story that I'd mostly written when I was 14-17, it is HARD. You aren't the same person anymore, let alone the same writer. Even your characters have matured with you and that dude that inspired you to write this romance? You guys broke up like five years ago and you honestly don't remember why you ever thought he was The One, although you remember loving him. But all this is like 3 months ago for your character.

3. I think this explains most if not all of the uneven writing and characterization in this series, especially with regard to the pairings. I can imagine that if I were reading this series for the first time, especially if I were reading it straight through, I'd be suffering from whiplash from Chaol to Rowan change, not to mention Celaena to Aelin. As for me (and probably Maas), Rowan came much later after my emotional attachment to Chaol's character. Celaena's character was also written with way more years of life experience instead of like, the one or two that happens in the books, which practically turns into one or two days/weeks if you're reading through the series for the first time.

On a side note, the Anne Bishop influence in HoF/QoS was STRONG. I understand it, it's one of her inspirations, and I don't really mind, but I'm still a little surprised at just how much I noticed it. I'm obviously in Maas' generation and I grew up reading the Black Jewels trilogy too, but sheesh, so many Bishop flashbacks! All that was missing was some mentions of weakness during moontime and those rings, lol. But fans annoyed about Aedion/Rowan's testosterone-fueled pissing contests or descriptions of snarling, overprotective males need to go check out some of those Warlord Princes. It's interesting, too, that Maas finally brought up the longevity/age issue in QoS (specifically what it means for Rowan and Aelin's romance, too), since that problem was something that Bishop handled pretty unconventionally in her followup sequels to the Black Jewels trilogy.

Bonner Speaking from an older reader's viewpoint(32) and the fact that I read them straight through....I was a bit whiplashed at how Celena/Aielin's heart changed from Dorian to Choal to Rowan.
None of my friends have read this series, so I have had no one to vent and talk to about all that happened in QoS and HoF. Thanks for your insightful review and backstory to the author. That clears so much up in my mind as to the plot changes throughout the series. Also, do you know if she will write anymore books to this series? I really liked the Mannon Blackbeak storyline and felt the ending fell flat and left much to be desired. I liked the exchange between Dorian and Mannon in the field near the end. When he's still under the Valgs control, but He can react to Mannon as if he were himself. And Mannon too felt something there as well. I wonder if this was a foreshadowing of a future romance/alliance between the two.

Oh and yes, when Nehmia was killed I was furiously upset! I almost stopped reading.

Christie Thank you for your insightful review, Rebecca. Now these sharp and shocking changes in characters make much more sense. I still don't quite like it, but it does explain a lot.

message 4: by Melanie (new)

Melanie Yeah ive read the first two books and currently reading the third and Celaena seems incredibly fickle and emotionaly unstable

Angelica I read the entire original first draft (or all that was posted online) way back when. I started reading it in High School and finished when I was in University.

First, Chaol and Celaena were never end game, not even in that original draft. It was Celaena and Dorian who were fated to be together. Rowan was in that original draft but as a warrior prince who taught Celaena to be a Queen.

Second, yes Celaena's heart goes from Sam to Dorian to Chaol to Rowan in the books, but let's face it... between the ages of sixteen and nineteen how many boyfriends / love interests has the average girl had? Probably about the same. To say that Celaena is fickle is just ridiculous. She is a young woman, who has faced incredible hardships and she is just starting to find her place.

With Empire of Storms (book 5) we see how Aelin has fully come into her own. She is a Queen with a court and a mission to fulfill. Yes, the original premise has changed a great deal from Celaena being the King's Champion to where she is now, but she needed to go through all this in order to gain the strength to take back her kingdom.

message 6: by Feyerah (last edited Jan 25, 2017 03:09AM) (new)

Feyerah Klydell Now I'm beginning to wonder if I've ever read the real fictionpress version of this.
As far as I can remember, the FP version had 3 books. In those 3 books, Celaena may have had a little fling with Chaol, but it was always Dorian. Chaol and Celaena had a one-night stand but in the end, she chose Dorian. I still remember how she let Cindrillion borrow her body or something (or was it the other way around?) and I remember how she and Dorian met in their dreams because they so miss each other. So imagine my surprise when people said Chaol was the canon partner in the FP version, because no, I really don't remember it like that.

I was one of the last readers of the FP version. I remember how I was re-reading it one day (yes, re-reading because the 3rd book was done at that time and I was suffering from withdrawal haha), but then the next day I visited the story, it was already taken down by Maas.

So I was really confident I've read the latest of the FP version. But now everybody's saying as if Celaena and Dorian were never NEVER canon even in the FP version, which confuses me. I mean okay, maybe Maas switched up everything in the published version, but my frustration lies in the fact that the ship I knew was canon did not seem to have existed in the FP version. Was there really no DorianXCelaena canon in the FP version?

I still remember the Opal Tower and all. This is so confusing.
For the record, yes, I ship Celaena X Dorian. I'm still holding on to that sunken ship, but who cares? I'm fine how Maas shifted her love interest. I just want some sort of affirmation that this ship existed in the FP version.

Angelica Feyerah, you are right. You read the first draft correctly. Aelin and Dorian were endgame then... Sarah posted a tweet before QOS or maybe EOS saying that she had changed the pairings at the end and was scared about what the fans would think. Clearly Rowan decided that he would be more important in the new story than he had been originally which is why she changed it.

And yes, Cindrillion was a cooky girl who spoke to animals and Luca was trying to be a knight *sigh* I miss that draft most of all I think.

Bottom line, don't listen to those who say that Dorian wasn't meant for Aelin. In the beginning he was.... but in the beginning Manon was nowhere to be seen.

message 8: by Sadia (new)

Sadia That's so frustrating. I am starting to hate this series and Aelin. My favorite book was ToG and Dorian and Aelin were so amazing. Dorian kept his amazingness but Aelin just because a lost cause for me. That girl took a toll for the worse. I am dreading reading ACOTAR but in my mind that's another spin off of Dorian and Aelin maybe?? (not really) but I can see it. Also the whole hook-up scene with everyone switching so fast and like you get attached and then something bad happens makes you want to throw the books against the wall. seriously!

Aryn (Crownedpages) The ACOTAR series is nothing like a spin off of Dorian and Aelin, just so you know.

message 10: by Sadia (new)

Sadia No you're right, I was just hoping :) hehe

Hannah Kamerman Hey Rebecca is there any chance you could send me Queen of Glass? I'm really interested in reading how Throne of Glass originally was.

alwaysreading.neversleeping I would also like a link to queen of glass if you could 😊

Zeliha Where can I possibly find the manuscript that you saved from Fictionpress? Will you be able to send it?!😬🧚🏼‍♂️

message 14: by Nicole (new)

Nicole Azucena If someone find the original draft, please share it :( I want yo see the beginnings of this series that I love...

message 15: by oli (new) - rated it 5 stars

oli If you join the Throne of Glass page on facebook it should be there in the PDFs!

Pixie 🍜 I wanna read the original too!!!

Mnellis24 Hannah wrote: "Hey Rebecca is there any chance you could send me Queen of Glass? I'm really interested in reading how Throne of Glass originally was."
Me Too!

Erica Curry One of the things I love most about this series is that genuine development and shift in love interest. It's part of what made the series feel so real.

Rebecca Hi all, I do still have the PDFs of the completed Queen of Glass as it was back then, but I'm not sure what the author's policy is on these copies of her old works and whether she prefers that they not be shared around. I'd like to respect her wishes if she mentioned them, so if anyone can link me to anything where she addresses it, please do so and I'd be happy to share the PDFs.

message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Rebecca wrote: "Hi all, I do still have the PDFs of the completed Queen of Glass as it was back then, but I'm not sure what the author's policy is on these copies of her old works and whether she prefers that they..."

Hey Rebecca! Could you send me the PDF, please?

message 21: by Andressa (new)

Andressa Basso Rebecca wrote: "Hi all, I do still have the PDFs of the completed Queen of Glass as it was back then, but I'm not sure what the author's policy is on these copies of her old works and whether she prefers that they..."

Could you send me the PDF too? (*_*)

Andrija Hi, if anyone has the pdf could you please send it to me? Thanks in advance.

Kayley Andrija wrote: "Hi, if anyone has the pdf could you please send it to me? Thanks in advance."

If you join the Facebook group for Throne of Glass, there is a full PDF in one of the sub folders.

Andrija Ok, thank you so much.

message 25: by Lucy (new)

Lucy Can anyone send me the PDF of Queen of Glass?

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