Allegiant
discussion
Hated it.
date
newest »
newest »
It's ok. We all hated it. The people who "loved" it are just trying to rationalize the story to ease their tortured subconscious. There were no excuses for it. The thing is I didn't even care that much about the character that died. I was more sad for the character that had to deal with that pain. PS. This is probably a really unpopular opinion, but I would've totally taken that memory serum or whatever it's called. Not fair you get to die and leave me alone to deal with the pain. Forget the stuff that says your memory lives on in my memory. NO! lol! This is why I'm not dauntless. CANDOR for the win!
Sorry you got traumatized, though.
Eh, the ending was the icing on the crappy cake. Roth ran her plot into the ground in this one. Tris' death was predictable and at that point way over due.
Yup, I agree with Kristen. I could still have enjoyed the book even with Tris's death, but the whole terribly written genetic plot, the complete undoing of all the fabulous worldbuilding of the first 2 books, and the transformation of Tris into some kind of self-sacrificial Mary Sue completely killed it for me.
i was expecting more action and story from this book but it was not there. i hate that tris had to die. i invested a lot into this character and she died. now i am afraid to even like a character should he/she die too. what really pissed me was bad guys got to live but someone who was good had to die. peter was supposed to be the villain but he turned good. Caleb was extremely selfish and evil, he got a chance at life he does not deserve. poor Tobias had to bear the pain.
Tris died at the hands of a guy who was not punished, much less he did not remember that he killed her.
even though i don't hate the trilogy i can never make peace with it.
just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say that you hated it. say that you hated the ending. The story and the way that we got there was really great. you find that people that were thought to be dead aren't, and that there's so much more going on that no one in Chicago knows about because they are just an experiment. I loved that - it was a bit unexpected the path that we took.
to the ending though - that really upset me. i think that we were so invested in the characters and relationships, that while we know that Tris would do anything to fight for what she believed in, sacrificing herself, i think that she sacrificed Tobias too much more - and that was the hardest part. i didn't want him to have the story line and ending that he got. i'm still heart broken about it.
Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say that you hated it..."part of my issue has to do with what you just said, Ilana - we learned that people who we thought were dead weren't really... when Tris sees her mother I was hoping beyond hope that Natalie was also alive just like the other people, that somehow we were tricked into thinking she was dead. so it hit me very hard when I realized that WASNT the case and that Tris was actually seeing her because she was dying. THAT bothered me that the author did that.
I also hated that Tris and Tobias spent most of this book fighting and only really made up towards the end right before she got killed. I knew Tris was going to take Caleb's place because that was so like her, but I didn't like that she died because of it. I feel like how she was killed wasn't realistic and reading the part at the end as Tobias is trying to recover from her death and life after everything that happened was really painful. after all the suffering they deserved a better ending than this, and so did the readers.
no, I wouldn't try to prevent people from reading the series (I even actually got several people interested in reading it especially now that the movie is out) because I really enjoyed the first two books but I will not lie and say I wasn't disappointed by a lot of things in the third. but everyone views things differently and while I thought it was a horrible crappy ending, I have seen many other people on here say how great they thought it was so I would leave it up to them to decide.
Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say that you hated it..."MANY SPOILERS
I dislike the story, not just because of Tris' death. I HATED the ending, but I didn't like the story in general. I feel like you could change the names of all the characters and they'd be completely different people than the ones we met in Divergent.
I actually didn't like Divergent that much, but I thought the storyline was good. The factions? Genius! Insurgent? The only thing that happened was the ending. Allegiant? I'm still confused about this world that I've been reading about for three books now.
Tobias isn't divergent? Divergent people are just cured? So....in the end, since this is dystopia, doesn't that mean that we're all Divergent right now? We're cured cause our genes haven't been messed with yet, right? So....if someone gives me poison (the death serum), my genes would fight it off? I wouldn't risk it.
I don't think I got the full story,so correct me if I'm wrong. An experiment went wrong and instead of making people better, it made people worse. So they did another experiment (the factions) in search of Divergent people whose genes were normal. Except, there were people who thought the whole experiment was a ruse cause there was evidence that people were committing heinous crimes even before the whole "I'm pure, you're not" thing happened, so those people started rebelling.
We can confirm that people committed heinous crimes before the whole "genes" thing. So....what's the real story? I don't get it.
For the whole Tris dying thing, everyone is going to hate me, but her death wasn't the heart-breaking part. Sorry :( The heart-breaking part was reading Tobias' pain after her death. The FRUSTRATING part was that David wasn't punished for killing Tris.
Again, everyone is going to hate me, but honestly, I would've been more fine if Tobias killed David and then took the "memory" serum (I forgot what it's called). What? Tobias can't be punished cause he can't remember :P At the end of the day, I just wanted Tobias to be happy.
I think what I didn't like most was that we didn't get any clear answers and I'm still confused on what exactly happened.
So I've been reading many reviews about Allegiant and I finally realized what bothered me the most about the book.Not so much that she died, but the WAY she dies.
Like oh she finally gets the meaning of real self sacrifice! Her reward? Death!
And this trilogy is geared towards teenagers?! Do we REALLY want them to think this?
It's like a glorified suicide!
Like it's okay to get yourself killed as long as you're doing it for someone else. NO!
And what ticks me off is she tried to do it twice before in the other two books, but she was doing it for the "wrong" reasons so she survived. Now that she does it for the "right" reason she gets to die. WTF?
That is a TERRIBLE thing to teach her age group she's writing for.
*SPOILER ALERT*I think that this book was terrible. I don't understand why the author made Tris die, it doesn't make any sense. It made the whole series a disaster and I definitely do not recommend to anybody. I also think that the way she dies was worse, it just didn't go the way it should have. Overall, TERRIBLE BOOK.
Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say that you hated it..."Actually, I suspected that some of the people who were supposed to be dead, weren't really.
Also, in my musings about where the third book would lead, one of the two possibilities that I knew it had to be was an experiment.
As I said, I didn't really care that Tris died. I thought it was stupid and a waste, but my problem was the entire book and the way the plot collapsed with the big revelation of the experiments. Because if you think too hard about it, the entire world that was created in Divergent isn't even plausible at that point.
Monique wrote: "Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say tha..."I agree with you. This last book was like an entirely different story. And I thought Tobias left alone in his grief was just cruel. But apparently that's Roth's thing since every single character practically is left in that situation by the end. Or dead, of course.
"Divergent people are just cured? So....in the end, since this is dystopia, doesn't that mean that we're all Divergent right now? We're cured cause our genes haven't been messed with yet, right? So....if someone gives me poison (the death serum), my genes would fight it off? I wouldn't risk it.
No, Divergent people are still the product of messing with genes. They're just 'healed'. Genetically Pure people are the ones who's genes weren't touched. If we're applying the idea to who we are in reality, we'd be Genetically Pure not Divergent. So no, you would not be able to withstand the death serum, sorry lol
And actually the dystopian genre is in the future, so that still wouldn't be us today.
An experiment went wrong and instead of making people better, it made people worse. So they did another experiment (the factions) in search of Divergent people whose genes were normal.
The factions came about as one of many experiments to try to combat the damaged genes. It wasn't another attempt at a failed experiment, it was just a variation of the same experiment.
By the beginning of Allegiant, it is the best scenario they've tried because all the others have already fallen apart the way it was happening in Chicago when the factionless took over. (Not the exact same way, but the result of the crumbled society is the same).
The experiments didn't make people worse, but it didn't make them better either. But I don't think that was actually the goal. I don't think they expected to fix people who already had damaged genes. I think they were trying to produce Divergent people by isolating them in various ways.
Except, there were people who thought the whole experiment was a ruse cause there was evidence that people were committing heinous crimes even before the whole "I'm pure, you're not" thing happened, so those people started rebelling.
That's one of the main problems with the plot in my opinion. For something supposedly based in science, there was no conclusive evidence to support the idea that all the bad stuff in the world came from damaged genes. It takes Tris all of like three seconds to figure out that people can be good or evil despite 'damaged' or 'pure' genes. And I really don't find it plausible that she's somehow some super genius and smarter than the thousands of people who have devoted their lives to obtaining knowledge.
But anyway, yes that's the idea. The government determined that damaged genes (which are the result of a flawed attempt to make them better) are the cause of all the evil in the world and they decide to conduct the experiments in hopes of producing Divergents.
It's not that the experiments are a ruse, but the group of 'rebels' don't buy the gene theory and believe as Tris does, that evil comes from people despite "bad" genes. They don't even believe there are damaged genes.
Kristen wrote: "Monique wrote: "Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - ..."I think that's what I was saying, since that's the supposed future, then we're living in the past. Therefore, we are all divergent now. You cleared that up for me. I would be Genetically pure, not Divergent. That sort of makes sense. Awwww, and here I was wanting to be immune to poison. Just my luck, I guess. Thanks for covering some things I was confused about. I still don't know how Divergent people are able to resist the death serum with their genes.
The whole experiment was a failure. I don't care what they were trying to do. They should've stopped it as soon as it began.
I'm thinking I also need to reread this series because I could've sworn that Tobias' mother was said to be running off with her lover and my mind keeps saying that she was pregnant with another son or something. lol!
Monique wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Monique wrote: "Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes..."Oh, ok, I get what you meant now. But yeah, we'd still just be GPs, not Divergents.
I still don't know how Divergent people are able to resist the death serum with their genes.
I think that's one of the many plot holes actually. The whole problem with the series is that the author didn't bother to think things through. Even with the teeniest bit of explanation that we're given as to why Tris is able to withstand some of the serums, it's inconsistent. She can withstand the death serum, but not the simulation serum(sometimes)? She can withstand the truth serum, but not the 'happy' serum from Amity? All very convenient.
The whole experiment was a failure. I don't care what they were trying to do. They should've stopped it as soon as it began.
Well, assuming they had a plausible theory (which they didn't), it would have taken time to figure out if it was working or not. Generations for this sort of thing. Which is what we have by the time Divergent starts.
And they were about to put an end to them because they were failing. David says something about how Chicago was their last shot to keep it going and if it failed, they would all be shut down. That's why they were going to 'reset' everyone.
But the entire premise is flawed because there wasn't even a little bit of proof for their hypothesis to suggest that the government would see this as even a good idea, let alone the entire focus of their resources in a time of crisis.
Ummm...I don't really remember anything about her being pregnant...maybe though. I think whatever Tobias remembers was just what his father told him or what he heard as rumors. Maybe the lover/baby thing came from his imagination when he figured out she was still alive....but I'm just making that up. I really don't remember, lol
Ilana wrote: "just to play a minor devil's advocate here - while i'm still upset about the ending (so you know which team i'm on), it's not the whole book that makes you guys mad - so don't say that you hated it..."I, along with everyone else who feels the need, can most definitely say that it's the whole book that annoys me if that is the truth of how we feel. What makes you think people don't have a reason to hate the book independent of the ending? In my opinion, the whole book stunk. The biggest failure, the real series-ruiner, was the pulled-out-of-her-ass "explanation" for the series premise not only made the entire story from the first two books worthless, but also made no sense whatsoever. And, as such, the entire plot of this book that is derived from that nonsense is nothing more than an additional nonsense, filled with nonsensical tangents that served no purpose, a whole series' worth of new characters that were not at all fleshed out and served no purpose, existing characters acting like completely different people and making completely out-of-character decisions, and a "message" that is completely devoid of all subtlety and nuance as the author suddenly felt the need to take her new theme of prejudice and beat the reader over the head with it with telling, preaching and ranting as if the reader is too stupid to understand her underlying themes unless she puts them on display with blinking lights and flashing sirens. The whole book was preposterous.
That's one of the main problems with the plot in my opinion. For something supposedly based in science, there was no conclusive evidence to support the idea that all the bad stuff in the world came from damaged genes. It takes Tris all of like three seconds to figure out that people can be good or evil despite 'damaged' or 'pure' genes. And I really don't find it plausible that she's somehow some super genius and smarter than the thousands of people who have devoted their lives to obtaining knowledge. This is one of the reasons why I just couldn't connect with or care about this new world Roth suddenly threw into the mix in this book. This is a world that operates on the belief that people are good or bad based on their genetic makeup. They have become so entrenched with this belief that they have allowed the government (or whoever) indoctrinate them with the lies that all the bad in the world happened when people altered their genes (soon to be referred to as genetically damaged), and completely erase all trace of fact that people did bad things long before these genetic manipulations ever happened -- these bad things were, in fact, the reason the genetic manipulations were done in the first place. Somehow it doesn't occur to anyone that even people with pure genes are capable of terrible evils. Nope, all the bad stuff in the world started when the original altered people started acting up and incited a Purity War. Choice has nothing to do with anything.
I really did not care about the characters' plight in reversing this type of thinking, in getting people to realize how wrong these ideas were, because I had a hard time believing that anyone would hold so strongly for so long something so stupid in the first place. What is the big lesson in this story, in this series? That people are more than their DNA? We already know that. We already know that your behavior and actions are dictated by more than just your biological makeup. It's so understood, in fact, that I do not get why we're supposed to accept that the people in this story don't know that. It wasn't really believable to me that these people, particularly these presumably learned individuals involved in the experiment, wouldn't know this. I did not understand why these people hundreds of years in the future are somehow dumber than they were in the 1800s. I can buy into a story (or in real life, really) with people believing in a dumb or terrible idea if there is evidence that the idea has merit, if there was a tangible benefit to pursuing this belief, if despite being a terrible/dumb idea, they were nonetheless correct and actually produced results. But where is the proof that this idea ever became anything more than just a notion? Where is the support for the notion that "damaged" people are more screwed up and more prone to screwy actions than "pure" people? There is none. There is nothing to support this belief that society has inexplicably carried for hundreds of years. People can live and operate under a belief that's the long-running status quo (organized religion, anyone?), but how in the world did that ever become the status quo in the first place? How did people ever believe this at all? I just didn't buy it. So, again, I didn't care about them changing this society. The society wasn't believable anyway.
There are way too many elements in this book - much moreso than the other two - that require you to believe that everyone there is a moron.
Totally agree, Lauren. The sad part is, with a few basic changes to the plot, it actually could have worked. Say, for example, instead of crediting damaged genes to the attempt to fix everything, that they discovered some specific gene that they believed explained evil throughout history. Sigh...If only Roth had bothered to think through the plot before slapping it down...
SPOILER ALERTThis book was a wonderful book, in the beginning. And from the beginning on-wards, it wasn't so great.
For instance, what everyone is so upset about is the ending. The ending was honestly abrupt and uncalled for. After everything we've gone through with these characters, and feeling the torture of watching them all slowly die off, there was no need to kill Tris. She died for what? Caleb? Caleb turned against her, and brother or not he deserved to die instead of her. And then what about Tobias? Tobias, our broken Tobias, is left all alone to deal with his grief. Tobias has gone through so SO much in his life, I don't think it's fair for the book to just turn around and end by him loosing a good thing he just found. An analogy to this would be that Tobias had just a little taste of something wonderful, something good for once in his life, and it just got ripped away by someone who did not deserve something so wonderful. The ending was completely uncalled for.
In all honesty, I didn't cry when Tris died. I was mainly shocked and confused. The thing that made me FURIOUS was when Tris died it didn't seem real. Sure, that's harsh to say but honestly it didn't make any sense. So Tris can survive the DEATH serum, but she dies because of a bullet?! I don't know how to express my feelings about that.
However, I did cry when I read the pain Tobias was going through, having him suffer was not NOT something I enjoyed. After all the death and loss in this series, couldn't the finale have ended on a happier note?
This book left me feeling lost and empty inside. I finished reading it a little while ago, but every time I think about the unjust ending I feel like I die a little inside. Sure, not all books should have the happily-ever-after ending, but books shouldn't have a death-of-a-main-character ending either. I finished this book feeling upset and betrayed. The ending changed my outlook on the whole series. Don't get me wrong, I still love Divergent and Insurgent but now I'm hesitant to say that Allegiant was a good wrap-up of the series.
I'm just going to pretend that Allegiant never happened.
Overall this book was okay, it's just the ending that was terrible. Henceforth, I only gave it two stars due to the lack of closure that this book brought.
Roth clearly ended the book this way because she didn't know what else to do.. She had a pretty good idea for one book, but not a whole trilogy. The mess started in the second book. The third book...well, it just fell apart. I feel kind of sorry for her. I think a 15-year old should re-write the ending. Honestly, most teens are more creative and could come up with something that makes more sense. I totally relate to your pain, though:(You're being pretty generous too, in saying that it was just the ending that killed this series.
The sad part is she could have written the worst book in the world, and she will make money off of it because it's the end of a trilogy...I know she got my 7 bucks, and I would really like them back. I archived Allegiant.
I was so distraught with this ending that I put down the book and, months later, I still haven't finished it. I'm just so disappointed with the ending. Somehow all of the dystopian trilogy's I've read haven't got their ending right. e.g. Hunger Games and Delirium.
Delirium was REALLY disappointing for me...mostly because it didn't feel finished...oh yeah, and the whole clichéd "bring down your walls..."Yeah...I'm kinda giving up on this genre for awhile. I feel like I got roped in because of all the five star reviews on nook...but Divergent was a 4 or 5 star book as a stand alone novel.
I highly recommend "Cinder," Scarlet", and "Cress" for YA it thoughMarissa Meyer...more sci fi then dystopic lit
The ending was so cliche, I laughed so hard. I didn't even cry when you know what happened. I was just laughing at how ridiculous it was.
Amanda wrote: "The ending was so cliche, I laughed so hard. I didn't even cry when you know what happened. I was just laughing at how ridiculous it was."Your a Cliche!! That was the worst ending in the world and it shouldn't have even happened in the fist place.
One of the things that really annoyes me is the whole IDEA of "genetically pure" or "Divergent" people. it goes against everything you learn in school. Tabula Rasa anyone? the mind is a blank slate? oh and what about Darwins idea that our traits are influenced by our ENVIROMENT? can someone please explain to me how Veronica Roth got out of taking Biology and World History? THAT was one of the things that killed this book for me, not to mention all of the other plot holes. I actually liked Divergent, but the rest of the series completely ruined it.
Sabrina wrote: "One of the things that really annoyes me is the whole IDEA of "genetically pure" or "Divergent" people. it goes against everything you learn in school. Tabula Rasa anyone? the mind is a blank slate..."Thank you. The very premise of the story in this book is utter nonsense. And the studio has just decided to split it into two movies. Oh, my Lord & Taylor, why?
Sabrina wrote: "One of the things that really annoyes me is the whole IDEA of "genetically pure" or "Divergent" people. it goes against everything you learn in school. Tabula Rasa anyone? the mind is a blank slate..."I don't know who you are but you have just said the things that I've trying to figure out how to say for a long time.... I mean Divergent was great it was a good book the movie could have been a little bit better be thats how all movies are worse then the book. But the rest of the series to Divergent were horrible just in general.
Maybe part of the problem is the pressure for the author to finish a trilogy within the a year after ending the second novel? Maybe they should just stick with a great stand-alone novel if that's all they have in them.
Amanda wrote: "The ending was so cliche, I laughed so hard. I didn't even cry when you know what happened. I was just laughing at how ridiculous it was."I agree! And I haven't shed one tear over this series...I am too disgusted to cry. I also can't believe someone (Roth) would be SOOO stubborn. I feel like she just had some point to make about life sucking and so she went ahead and did it, and to heck with everyone else. Hope she's happy!!
I REALLY , REALLY HATED the ending. But it was what book needed.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
The end of this book was depressing. WHY do authors do this? They get people to spend their time, money, and hope on their characters then kill the main one off and leave the other supporting characters devastated.
Here's a tip authors, most of us HATE when you do this to us, toss aside the series, and never look at it again. So stop it!