Where are the boys?

[Gavin]

I wasn't sure where this post should go, so I thought the general chat in this forum would be a good place to start. Since publishing my book Bring me the head of Turlington Jones on Kindle, I've been doing a lot of research into marketing etc etc.

One thing that has struck me is the lack of male voices in the current literary-consumer world. Bloggers all seem to be female and the top ten lists in book shops seem to be dominated with books for women. This is NOT a bad thing, but I do wonder where the men and boys have gone.

Have computer games and football taken over reading? I hope not, but I'd like to try and understand what's going on. Anyone have any ideas?

[Will]

We're all writing genre fiction, Gavin... doesn't make the top 10 lists!

[B J]

It's something that has become very obvious over the last couple of years. 13 of the current top 15 fiction best sellers on Amazon were written by women. Of the remaining two, one was written by a man, but published using a pseudonym (to disguise his gender?).
This weekend our local regional newspaper, The Western Morning News, carried profiles of three local writers - all of them women.

[Gavin]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed it, but I'm not glad it's happening.

When did reading become an uncool thing for boys to do? I have heard of youngsters getting bullied for reading, which is as stupid as bully someone for being intelligent.

I think parent should encourage their children to read as much as possible.

[B J]

Perhaps women write better books? Or just more commercial ones?

[David]

I think the trend for many years has been that more women read than men, and the average woman reads more than the average man. At least I'm pretty sure this is true for fiction. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Also, women writers complained for years that publishing was dominated by males--males ran publishing houses and published mostly male writers. This started changing as more women in the 60s and 70s got involved in the business side of publishing as well as writing, fighting things like books by men being categorized as literature while the same type books by women were called "romance."

I will say, I think more women have read my books than men, and they're certainly not "women's fiction." This is based on the non-scientific observation that I've gotten more feedback from women than men.

Maybe women are just smarter than us. :-)

[Jud]

If you were to list the top 20 authors of all time how many of them would be women? My gut is going with the thought that most would be men.

I think it is more socially acceptable for women to enjoy escapism reading and therefore it is easier for women to write it for example, chicklit. There isn't a chicklit equivalent for men, is there? Chicklit can be quite superficial whereas what I think of as a "manly" book would require more depth and need to come across as more factual than anything-goes-dreamy.

[Will]

Yup, it's definitely a thing. It feels somehow non-PC to say it, but it does seem that women read more than men. Google "women read more than men" and we get lots of hits like this one:

http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/01/16...

Where have the men gone? Computer games, non fiction, sport, movies, internet, magazines ...

When I was 14 I always had my head in book or a comic, probably because there was not much else. Given the choice, my 14 year old son is far more likely to be playing computer games with his friends.

Heck, if I had those games when I was a teenager I would probably have played them too.

[Will]

Chic-lit for men? I suspect you thinking of the Tom Clancy, Jack Higgins, Freddy Forsyth group of writers, Jud.

[Gavin]

I come from the computer game generation so that can't be it as I love games, movies and books. It's all about imagination.

I could blame the industry for a lack of enthusiasm for male-oriented books, but I'm sure they would cite a lack of customer-base. So that leaves the parents for not encouraging their male offspring to read more.

I might ask Jamie Oliver if he'd give me a hand, he seems to know how to get parents to change the minds of little folk! ;-)

[Jim]

Some of it is that boys seem to have far more options than they did

But talking to lads I get the feeling that the books they're expected to read at school seem designed to discourage them from reading
Yet I've looked at book lists for 'key stage 3' and there's plenty there I'd have thought a lad would enjoy.
I wonder whether so many of them go through their early years of school without seeing a male teacher they just just associate reading with being a masculine pursuit?
Is it just that female teachers hand out books that they enjoyed (but I cannot imagine them not allowing for a difference in male taste)

Frankly I haven't a clue but I'd put forward the following suggestions

1) Games are more attractive and interactive
2) Reading seems to them to be more 'feminised' and less relevant?

[Gavin]

I agree with your point 2 Jim, but I think the games market is being used as a bit of a scapegoat. I have played games all my adult life (I only gave up on a PS4 because of a house renovation). I would stay up until 2am sometimes, but I always found time to read.

I hadn't thought about the teacher demographic though, you might have something there.

[Michael]

Anyone know what the demographics for TV viewing is like? Do women generally watch more in terms of dramas/soaps?

Maybe women prefer the more passive types of entertainment.

[Jim]

I genuinely don't know about games because they have just passed me by.
The only one I've ever really played is the Rome Total War (Total Realism mod). There I had the problem that a at least some of the stuff added in was based on stuff I'd written so it was almost gaming in a world designed around your preconceptions :-)
But anyway I never installed it on this machine (too much of a time hog) so haven't played it for a lot of years.
I was talking to one of the younger lads at the wargames club and was forced to tell him that I understood every individual word in a sentence he'd used, but strung together they made no sense at all. Certainly some (I haven't a clue how many) share a common background of games and gaming based incidents as a previous cohort would have shared a common background in TV programmes and characters

[Will]

This one is difficult because we can't see every reader. I can tell you my point of view, my wife's and my son's. I know what some of my readers think from their reviews or the emails they have sent me. But beyond that I am struggling. Everything else is guesswork and generalisation.

Purely based on that limited sample, the best theory I can come up with is this ...

Boys tend to prefer a strong visual element to their entertainment. They want their games and movies to have a high definition wow-factor. By contrast, girls tend to be more interested in emotions and relationships.

Movies and computer games are suited to the wow factor visuals, but are not so good at showing character or emotions. Books are much better at character and emotions but not so good on the visuals.

I know that is a huge over-generalisation and that not all boys or all girls will fit those categories, but it's the best I can come up with.

[B J]

Michael Cargill wrote: "Anyone know what the demographics for TV viewing is like? Do women generally watch more in terms of dramas/soaps?

Maybe women prefer the more passive types of entertainment."

I'm sure it's generally true that women prefer to read about relationships rather than violent action. I can't believe there are very many female Jack Reacher fans. Although having said that, James Bond doesn't seem short of female interest.

[Will]

Only generally true. The friend I have who is most committed to (the ultra violent) games is a female doctor.

Thank every god invented I'm not on her patient list. I can imagine her smile when she is going to give an injection...

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

I've read all the jack Reacher books. The latest one (which I am just finishing) is a bit of a disappointment, frankly. Not enough violence, probably ;) And I'd rather eat a scabby dog than watch a soap (Downton Abbey - shudder) or read a romance novel.

Biggest and best influence on a boy's reading? Seeing his father (or significant male adult) doing it. Don't always go blaming the teacher. Parents have had them for five years before the teachers get a look in,

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Well I know Darren says his 12 year old son has very little interest in reading, in spite of Darren's best efforts. He is sport mad and spends every moment he can doing something that involves a ball of some kind. Its not for lack of example on Darren's part :)

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

Lots of boys I've known have lost all interest in reading as young teens, but come back to it when they're a little older, if the grounding is there :)

[Jay-me (Janet)]

Rosemary (The Nosemanny) wrote: "I've read all the jack Reacher books. The latest one (which I am just finishing) is a bit of a disappointment, frankly. Not enough violence, probably ;) And I'd rather eat a scabby dog than watch a..."



I don't watch soaps (or Downton Abbey) or reality TV of any description - but equally I have never read any Jack Reacher books, and am not keen on any too violent or horror type stories.

I do read chick lit, cosy mysteries and similar but also sci fi/fantasy and enjoy watching some sports (but not athletics or motor racing)

My nephew was always a very keen reader, right up to about the time when he left uni - and now he seems to have very little time for reading at all.
Nieces #1 & #3 do read - but neither of them as much as niece#2 who puts me to shame with the amount that she reads - but my brother is the big reader in their family rather than my SIL.

My mum, sister & BIL are all occasional readers, again it was my dad who was the big reader - he had his own library tickets and most of mum's - he read mostly crime and thrillers.

[Gavin]

Boys do tend to be more visual, but in my case that didn't just mean what I could physically see. When I read, the same enthusiasm for escapism came alive in my head. I can't stand soaps as they try and emulate real life (although I'm not sure there is quite so much shouting in real life). Movies and games are a physical way to stimulate my imagination, books are a mental way. I think perhaps as less men read to their children that important link with imagination is being missed.

I don't see my brother reading to his children, his wife does and my niece loves to read. My nephew is a bit young yet, but he hasn't had a male role model reading to him. So now I'm starting to think it's fathers (in general) need to step up.

[Darren]

Gingerlily - Mistress Lantern wrote: "Well I know Darren says his 12 year old son has very little interest in reading, in spite of Darren's best efforts. He is sport mad and spends every moment he can doing something that involves a ba..."

Tony's not a fan of reading novels, but he does read gaming mags and football mags a lot. When he makes the effort, he is sometimes rewarded. He loved Holes, but saw the movie first. Maybe that's the plan.

[Vanessa (aka Dumbo)]

B J wrote: "Michael Cargill wrote: "Anyone know what the demographics for TV viewing is like? Do women generally watch more in terms of dramas/soaps?

Maybe women prefer the more passive types of entertainment..."

I think I've read nearly all the Jack Reacher books. I like action, horror, mysteries, humorous and some sci-fi books. Not overly keen on chick lit or romance books though.

I do watch soaps, Emmerdale and Eastenders, but not Corrie. I mostly like police/detective shows, CSI and NCIS. Also programmes like Ripper Street, Sherlock and Strictly Come Dancing. I like all the action/adventure movies and the more blood and guts the better! Not really keen on period dramas or romance. I don't mind sci-fi on the telly like Red Dwarf, Doctor Who etc.

I'm not really a girlie girl, except when I want to be ;0)

Actually one of the first books I ever read, as a kid, was one of the Biggles books!

I'm not into the usual computer games but I do love playing pool on my tablet every night!

[Patti (baconater)]

Yes, let's please not blame the teachers, especially as children spend many, many more hours watching tv than they spend in classrooms.

Parents are still the best role models.

I do agree that there should be more of a gender balance in teaching staff in primary, though.

[Jim]

I do worry about the gender balance among teaching staff. It sends out the signal to boys that teaching isn't important because men don't do it

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

It should send out the signal that teaching is important because women do it ;)

[Patti (baconater)]

It would help if the media was supportive of teachers.

[Jim]

Rosemary (The Nosemanny) wrote: "It should send out the signal that teaching is important because women do it ;)"

Tell a ten year old boy that. :-(

[Jim]

Patti (baconater) wrote: "It would help if the media was supportive of teachers."

I suspect the in the UK it would help if the NUT employed grown-ups as spokes'people' :-(

[Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)]

Jim wrote: "Patti (baconater) wrote: "It would help if the media was supportive of teachers."

I suspect the in the UK it would help if the NUT employed grown-ups as spokes'people' :-("

Steady now Jim. That's asking a bit much.

[Will]

Mmm. He'll be wanting a grown up Education Minister next. Can't remember when we last had one of those.

[Jim]

Probably R A Butler

[Gavin]

Personally I don't blame teachers for very much. Parents are the kids' role models long before teachers see them. Parents are role models for the way kids behave, what they eat and what they do as hobbies.

I did a small straw poll of my friends and very few of the men read except children's books to their toddlers.If a child walked into a room and saw their father reading a book or a Kindle (Other ereaders are available), I'm pretty sure they'd want to try it.

Great leaders and people of learning are created before they get to school because it's the attitude and expectation that's set at the toddler stage I think.