Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
Pairings: TOG
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Chaol & Dorian ~ Pairing Discussion
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Rachel , Co-Moderator
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Sep 10, 2015 01:38PM
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They'll be friends forever and ever and everrrrrrrrrr. I just love their relationship so much *-* I think that in QoS their friendship is when shows the most. They are just so into each other that maybe if they get together it'd be perfection really. Or not. or yes?
I love both of them too. They have the best bro-romance ever. I loved Chaol's support to Dorian in QOS, how he didn't want to give up on him and the finally scene when Chaol sacrifies himself and Dorian defeated the Vlag prince, god, most glorious scenes ever.Oh course, they are going to stay friends. I believe that they are going to make a good ruling team !
Long live to king Dorian and to his right hand !
Why are we always trying to make characters into romantic pairings? Going so far as to suggest clearly heterosexual characters become bi for each other, really? "So into each other" is what Aelin and Rowan were doing in QoT. Chaol and Dorian, when they had their scenes, were all about their loyalty to each other--which is what makes their friendship beautiful-- and their relief over each other's safety.
Lol okay, I was just joking? Sorry if it upsets you. I obviously want them to stay friends because their bond is freaking flawless. Better, they are brothers.
Yeah I agree with you Stephanie that's what I was confused about. Chaol and Dorian obviously aren't homosexual. But OMG yes of course they will stay best friends! Bros for life!
What if Chaol somehow swears an oath to Dorian in the next book? Because... the feels...
Personally, I don't like blood oaths. Why can't your word alone be bond? Ya know? I kind of feel that the blood oath creates room for mistrust and imprisonment, which leads to resentment. The road to hell is paved by good intentions and all that. Free will is a blessing. Always.
Stephanie wrote: "Personally, I don't like blood oaths. Why can't your word alone be bond? Ya know? I kind of feel that the blood oath creates room for mistrust and imprisonment, which leads to resentment. The road ..."Whoa I hadn't quite thought of it that way. Which is funny because Maeve does JUST that by forcing the Cadre (and formerly Rowan) into doing whatever she pleases....Scary.
I thought blood oaths were something only the Fae did because, you know, magic. I meant a "normal" oath for him to make to Dorian, or maybe he will just be a member of his Court by right without the need to make one.Hey, Lydia, maybe that is because Maeve is just a cunning little bastard and she loves to have people under her power c:
Ale wrote: "I thought blood oaths were something only the Fae did because, you know, magic. I meant a "normal" oath for him to make to Dorian, or maybe he will just be a member of his Court by right without th..."Oohh yes I see. A normal Oath would be awesome to see, like "I DUB THEE" Or something xD And omg I KNOOOW Maeve is an awful person. But I remember in HoF that Maeve made it seem like a good idea and a rehabilitative thing for Rowan to swear his service to her after he was aimlessly wandering the earth for 10 years because of Lyria's death. She's SICK and I hope the Cadre break free of her somehow as well.
Like for him to make it on coronation day? Sign me up. I'm all for it. And yeah, I see the thing about Maeve. She just bugs me, can someone kill her now, please?
Ale I agree with you, hope Maeve does not show in the next book, but part of me just wants to what will she do when she finds out the amulet that Rowan give to Lorchan is fake.
Maeve IS SOOOOOO going to show up in the next 2 books. I think she's the big bad, or 2nd big bad. I have a feeling she's going to REALLY screw things up for Aelin is book 5 because Maeve has her own agenda and...""The enemy of my enemy is my friend." She's wants power, and Erawan has power. It's going to be dicey!
Good point, you're good with this. ;-)
Oh god are you suggesting Maeve will team up with Erawan? That would be bad. Yes Maeve is definitely gonna play a big role I think. I hope he Cadre see her true colours and leave her.
QoS SPOILERS IN THIS COMMENT!I mean anything is possible with this Series. Maeve is POWER CRAZED and has wanted the keys for a THOUSAND years! I forgot who it is but towards the end of QoS someone says "All the players have returned to the unfinished game." Just like Cain said to Celaena in ToG! Aelin = Elena/Brannon, Dorian = Gavin, Maeve = Bitch Maeve, Duke Perrington = Erawan (or so we think). THEY ARE ALL BACK! And I have no doubt Maeve will do whatever she can to get those keys. I think she will try to sabotage Aelin and/or hold someone she loves hostage (AEDION!? and I say that because of Gavriel) and use them against her. And the Cadre can't be free of her unless she releases them....T_T
Good point, you're good with this. ;-)
Natalia wrote: "Good point, you're good with this. ;-)"LOL xD You said this exact thing 3 comments ago! Thanks !
The big bads to worry about are definitely Maeve, Erawan, and the Blackbeak matron.
Spoilers!I have a funny feeling either the Blackbeak Matron or Maeve will get killed in this book. But I may be wrong, because the King of Adarlan go killed in QoS.
Because we have to get rid of Maeve!
What will be, when Dorian will admit that he was present the days the Chaol's men were been torturing? Do you think Chaol will be able to endure this, accept that darkness and guilt that now is inside Dorian? Does he will find a way to help his friend?
Giada wrote: "What will be, when Dorian will admit that he was present the days the Chaol's men were been torturing? Do you think Chaol will be able to endure this, accept that darkness and guilt that now is ins..."Chaol can't really blame Dorian for watching his men die. He was being controlled by the Valg prince, thus he couldn't do anything about it as much as he might have wanted to. And now I'm recalling a chapter in QoS. I am remembering it only very vaguely, but Dorian had to sit through a torturing of a man, and the King was there too. But then he thinks he doesn't care if the man dies. He's completely lost hope by then.
And Chaol has nothing to hold against Dorian. Honestly, HE should be sorry for what he's done to him, with not accepting his magic and acting really weird and afraid around him. Chaol was too loyal to the king to see properly. And he should apologise to Aelin. It was disgusting how he treated her in QoS.
Totally agree that Dorian has absolutely NOTHING to be sorry for. I mean really "HEY GUYS! SORRY I WAS VICIOUSLY HELD DOWN AND COLLARED BY MY FATHER AFTER WATCHING THE ONLY LIGHT OF LIFE GET BEHEADED IN FRONT OF ME AND MY BEST FRIEND FLEE FOR HIS LIFE. THEN POSSESED AND USED TO TORTURE AND MAIM AND THIRST FOR BLOOD. YEAH TOTALLY MY FAULT!" Poor Dorian has to deal with enough trauma, he doesn't need others to be pushing guilt onto him for actions he didn't willingly commit. And Chaol doesn't know that Dorian tortured his men but his loyalty is fully with Dorian now and he wouldn't/shouldn't be upset with him about something he couldn't control.A lot of the problem I had in HoF with Chaol was that he REFUSED to see how evil the King was, and even when he did he couldn't accept it. He shunned Dorian because he totally raked him over in CoM and then he found out he had magic and didn't do anything either because he was afraid of it. Then he finds out that Sorscha's there for him so everything is fine, no big deal that he kept secrets from Dorian for the ENTIRE book ??! I mean it's wonderful that he finally realized he is truly loyal to Dorian (thus the reasons for his actions in QoS) but I mean WOW took ya long enough there Mr. Loyal to a fault.
Don't get me wrong I love Chaol, but his character is complex and sometimes it drives me insane. LOL ;)
Lol, Dorian can do no wrong in my eyes, he's one of my favourite characters <3And yeah, even after all Chaol has seen (he's the one who took the best assassin in Rifthold from a SLAVERY camp) and yet in CoM and the first part of HoF, he doesn't see anything wrong with the King.
Haha yes DORIAN is the best. And I agree Chaol is an extremely complicated character, but I like characters like that, they're intensely interesting.
There is a big lack of LGBTQA+ characters in books, so I don't see how it can be wrong to headcanon characters as bi? It honestly doesn't hurt anyone, and we aren't forcing anyone to agree, so please respect us! I personally just love Chaol and Dorian's relationship and even ship them, even though the possibility of them getting together is low! But it's fun to imagine alright, and as I said before, it doesn't harm anyone and is good way of showing people that we want more representation and diversity in books! c:
No one said it's wrong to want canon couples who are bi. The argument is why is there a constant need need to desire characters who are friends, platonic friends, or every character period, to be coupled up into some form of romantic relationship, be it Hetero, bi, or gay? Btw, There are at least two gay couples that have been mentioned in the TOG series.
Only two: Malakai and Emrys on HoF and two girls from the Thirteen.
Oh ok. Oh yeah I forgot about Emrys and Malakai.
But Stephenie, when someone just suggested they'd get to get together you argumented against that? Even though your argument was about coupling people up, the way you talked about Chaol/Dorian suggested that you thought it was stupid and ''clearly they are heterosexual why does people ship them''. But now I understand your point better, and I hope you understand mine! c:And yes, I'm really happy we have two LGBTQA+ couples!! :D
To add on to the conversation, I think that it's implied that Lysandra is bisexual.Also, Chaol and Dorian are my ultimate brotp and I adore them and their friendship.
Hedvig Solveig wrote: "But Stephenie, when someone just suggested they'd get to get together you argumented against that? Even though your argument was about coupling people up, the way you talked about Chaol/Dorian sugg..."HI Hedvig,
When I mentioned that it was "clear" Dorian and Chaol were hetero was bc the shipping them as a bi-couple is something that isn't going to happen. There has not been one foreshadowing inclination that their story is headed in that direction. And honestly, if Sarah decided to do that, which she has a right to do, it would feel totally disingenuous. The fact that LGBTQA are such a rarity, especially in YA Fantasy, I feel that such a development should be done with conviction and should be a fully committed story arc that should not just come out of no where with two of the main characters, tacked on as an afterthought like "Oh, lets just throw this new plot devise into the mix". It should be explored accordingly and given just as much development as Aelin's romantic relationships with Chaol and now Rowan.
Dorian's and Chaol's is not a romantic romance that should be just thrown into the mix without care. And if it's going to be done with care then some things that would need to be discussed are the following: What are the general positions regarding same sex couples relationships in the world they live in? Fully acceptable? Ok, fine, how are heirs and continuing a bloodline within the monarch handled then? These are just examples of some of questions that would have to be answered. And to have done that relationship justice, that sort of premise should have been established in book 1 in some fashion and it wasn't.
To me, this particular plot development is not impossibility, I just don't think given the events of the previous 4 books now, that there is anything there that justifies this as a possible event, not would it feel genuine if suddenly thrown in there. That is all.
Okay Stephanie, but you have to understand that shipping is something fun, and done for your imagination. Being a shipper of LGBGQA+ ships means that you know that the ship isn't going to happen. Believe me, we know it probably won't happen. When I ship something I just play with the thought of their relationship. I IMAGINE them being together and doing cute things like kissing, just like you would in any other ship?? If a writer really does write a LGBTQA+ couple then yes, they need to do all of those things you listed?? Of course I want well-written queer characters!! But this is not about canon, this is about fans thinking about their fave characters together.
Seriously, if I were to write 1000+ words about evidence of Chaol/Dorian being canon, then you could use that response. But now I don't understand why you have brought me a wall of text explaining of why they won't be canon.
Shipping is sometimes not about logic, but rather exploring and loving characters together and wishing they were together. We know it won't happen so we fantazise about it, and that doesn't harm anyone? It's literally just spreading love?? So I'm sorry but I won't stop shipping them just because they will not get together. I'm very aware of how the books are written and the hints of romance.
I think we just don't understand each others viewpoints. I respect your way of thinking, even though I don't understand your meaning, and I hope you can do the same! Have a good day c:
Wow, that was taken a little out of proportion. I was trying to joke, but clearly the suggestion of this couple wasn't funny by one bit. I mean, is it that bad that anyone lowkey ships them a little? Like Hedvig said, this clearly isn't going to happen, but that doesn't stop from people to think about them as a couple. I think if anyone does it it's completely fine and I don't see the point on trying to make them think otherwise just because you don't like the idea? They absolutely won't happen and everyone pretty much knows that.
*randomly appears here*It's just a ship.
Dorian and Chaol won't be canon, but don't tell someone they can't ship it.
It's for fun.
It's not because they think it's going to happen.
Let people ship what they want; that is the moral of this story.
I don't care who people ship. Ship away to your heart's content, and my apologies if it seemed as if I was raining on anyone's ship parade. I was obviously coming from a completely different, and more serious, take on the idea of the Dorian and Chaol ship, and ships in general (bc I actually like friendships that are not romantically entangled between characters too, and they aren't often explored so extensively in female targeted YA fantasies). But by no means Should any of you stop shipping who you want on my behalf.
Okay, it was just a misunderstanding then and that's okay! c:Anyhow, who cried when reading the Chaol & Dorian scenes?? I know I did!!
When he wakes up and Dorian is there and just... AAAH they are too precious!! Kinda sad though they will be apart in at least the beginning of TOG5! :c
Qos spoilersWhen Dorian named chaol his second in command XD they're such a dream team
