The Next Best Book Club discussion
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Do you worry about the future of books?
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Sasha
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Apr 09, 2010 08:25AM
Ha...I used to love doing that too. I'd write a little review on the inside cover and abandon it somewhere.
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El wrote: "I've heard that about the backpacking thing too in regards to e-readers. I still have to say how much I enjoy leaving paperbacks all around Europe as I read them. I don't take a lot - it just dep..."I've been traveling for over a year and I started with a few books. What I do is swap them as I go. Most backpacker accomodation, camp grounds and such have a free book exchange. I've read a lot of books I'd never have picked up otherwise and found some real gems. Of course there have been the really dreadful ones too, but all in all I think it was a good experience.
Next time though, I just might have an ereader. It does sound like a great option.
Where've you been, Laura? That sounds awesome.
I started out in Darwin Australia in March of 2009. My husband and I spent 9 months driving, camping and hiking around most of Australia (that's right, in 9 months we didn't manage to finish) and then in December boarded a round the world flight to New Zealand, then Hawaii, then San Francisco. Now I'm in North Carolina visiting family. Next month, on to Europe for the summer there. It has been, is and will continue to be awesome. I feel very lucky to have this opportunity. (Confession - I am a little, sometimes a lot, homesick. But that's a small price to pay.)
Australia is big! That sounds very cool. Good for you!
I love my Kindle. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Before I got my kindle, I had a house full of books. I now don't have to go out, go shopping, find a book that I think I will like, buy the book, come home and never have time to read it because I always forget to take it with me. My kindle goes everywhere that I go.I love the little guy
Alex wrote: "Katie, that's what I always tell folks too: normally, e-readers are cool but not life-changing. But if you travel, they can make an enormous difference. Especially if you're into backpacking, the..."I hope paper books are around for as long as we are. However, ereaders are a wonderful alternative for those of us who want or NEED them. Sometimes, when I'm out with mine I'm surprised at the volatility that some people have in response...like I'm the anti-christ or something. I don't get it.
I buy both, and think that most people will continue to do so, too. Cheap eBooks can be a way to test if you like an author (espeically an unknown writer like me!), before buying an author's next works in the more expensive print versions.
I dislike the idea of the nook/kindle. I could spend hours browsing the internet but when I want to read, I want a paperback book. I love the smell of new books. I love the different sizes of the books, the texture of the paper, the font, etc. I love walking into a bookstore or the library and spending hours browsing.I've honestly never even tried a nook/kindle. It's just something I'm going to be completely against until it's my only option. I don't even like buying e-textbooks for class even though they're much cheaper.
Hi,I'm worried about the future of books. I have NOTHING against ebooks, but we have massive problems in the U.K.
There is a stupid campagne on at the moment called 'the campagne for real books' It has been hi-jacked on the quiet by the 'big boys'. They sign up the little independant book shops on the pretext it is ebooks killing their business. This is arrant nonesense! It is the 'remainders' trade killing things, this is down to the deliberate over ordering on a massive scale by the ONLY major high street book chain, who insist on 'sale or return', this is purely to get the unit price down.
The result of this madness is manifested in two separate 1,000,000 book give aways, this is over 10% of U.K. book sales. In addition to this madness the 'pound shops' have shelves sagging under the whieght of new paper backs at 2 for a pound and hard backs at £1. All designed to kill off the 'Indies' sellers and writers alike. The little shops would do better if they worked with the 'Indie' publishers, like 'the book hive' in Norwich, when I went there the queue was out of the Door!
The sooner all this sale or return c..p is brought under control the better, if the company responsible goes bust great! then readers will be able to get good books rather than the cheapest, over hyped books selected for them by a load of money grabbing dinosaurs.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
I think there will always be an audience for real books. However, I worry about my favorite authors writing less because the profits in ebooks is not as big!
I just got a nook as an early Xmas present and I love it. I still have a house full of books, and it will never replace actual books for me, but it has already changed the way that I read and the types of stuff that I read. I'm more willing to take a chance on an unknown in ebook format for a couple dollars rather than having to spend twice as much or more on a physical book that I might not like. And if I do end up liking it enough to want to keep it, I will buy the physical book.
But the convenience is a big factor for me. I carry a book with me everywhere I go. Sometimes the book isn't practical to lug around due to size, so an ereader is ideal. When I travel, I usually have a minimum of 5 books with me, depending on length of trip, and I'm sure that the airlines love that because of baggage fees, but my back hates it. I can't help it though. The last time I traveled, I lugged The Passage, I Am Number Four, The One That I Want and a couple classics with me across the country and back. And then I barely even had time to read them! The nook would be much more convenient for that kind of situation.
There are pros and cons to everything, but I doubt that ebooks will ever completely wipe out the paper book trade.
I don't worry so much about the future of books, but more of the future of bookstores. It seems like even the major book chains are suffering economically with more of them filing for chapter 11. I also don't see many people wandering about the aisles, but more frequenting the ereader kiosks, cafes and magazines, children/teen and bargain sections. I think there will always be people who enjoy picking up an actual book. There's something about the smell and feel of a book that is comforting. For me there is nothing like going to the bookstore, library, or library sale to browse and pet all the lovely books and I know I'm not alone in feeling like this since I've seen many people exhibiting the same behavior as me. :)
What a great thread, thanks Catie, an interesting article, we have a new Indie book shop in Norwich [UK] stocking mainly indie books, there is always a queue.Judith was worried about her favorite authors not writing as much. This may be a good thing, as many of the mainstream authors are contracted to write two books a year, what ever. The result of deadlines on contracts for books is seen daily on goodreads, 'their earlier books were great but recently.....' and 'the books are all becoming the same, a feeling of dejavue' These are the results of authors being 'pressured' into writing against time!
It takes, or can take absolute ages to write a follow up to a successful, or at least a good book, without becoming repedative. Every author tries, or would like to try to make his/her next book better than the last. Even with no time restraints this is b.....y hard! I am currently working on the follow up to 'The Day the Ravens Died' which, as an Indie book sold well, if the reviews are to be believed it was every bit as good as any 'action thriller' out there, following that is not easy!
This difficult task would prove impossible if I was contracted, 'oh, it's not as good', or 'it is the same as...' would be valid. So don't worry if your favorites aren't turning out as many as they used to, hopefully, given time 'they' will return to their former glory, hopefully as 'Indies'.
Becky made the point she would use her 'nook' to check out a new author, and if she liked the book then she would buy the 'real thing'.
Good for you Becky, I believe the future lies in that direction, it makes sense.
As for Jackies comments, as far as I am concerned the sooner the only major book chain over this side of the atlantic goes bust the better! for reasons I have explained at some length else where on GR. More power to the 'new' Indie stores, then readers might get the great books they deserve rather than the 'forced' over hyped stuff filling the book shelves today.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Timothy wrote: "What a great thread, thanks Catie, an interesting article, we have a new Indie book shop in Norwich [UK] stocking mainly indie books, there is always a queue.Judith was worried about her favorit..."
My favorite authors are, Greg Iles, Edward Rutherfurd, Ken Follett, Pat Conroy and Kate Morton. I don't particularly like the authors that throw out regurgitated verbiage every four to six months.
Hi Nanette,Indies are in effect at least partially banned from the big book stores over here. Sure, they are 'available', but rarely stocked, even on a 'local' basis. The impression is even the ordering via a high street shop is discouraged, a friend of mine tried to order a copy of 'Beyond the Potting Shed' from our local high street chain store, was asked for the full price and was told it would take up to six weeks to get!!! 10 days max, 7 working days is the norm. The sooner we lose these money grabbing dinosaurs the better for everyone.Bring on the indie book stores!!
Judith illustrated my point about writing to contracted deadlines perfectly, 'regurgitated verbage' is a brilliant definition of what happens.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Me again,Solution to the current mess!! Ignore the big boys. Get a universal ereader, check out the books on there, find one you like and order it from your local indie store!! Then people in their lofty isolated towers will take notice as their 'bottom line' vanishes off the bottom of the chart!!! You might end up paying a little bit more for your books but you would still 'save' money as you wouldn't have been conned into buying the boring stuff!
Just a thought.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Hi Catie,My books come out as ebooks at the same time as the POD version but are about half the price, or even a bit less. They are not on Amazon as ebooks as yet because amazon take such a big chunk.
The company I use to do the bits I can't or [shamefully] can't be bothered to do, are currently looking at making all their ebooks more widely available. We authors also need to eat to live, even indie ones like me!!!
all the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
You will pry regular books out of my cold dead rigor mortised hands! That being said, i would still love to have a kindle or a nook. I do love the idea of being able to carry 3,000+ books with me wherever i go in something that's smaller and lighter than your average magazine and also having books in 60 seconds. But it would be a supplement to my regular books, it would NEVER replace them. And one of the main detractors of an eReader for me is that i can't go down to my local used bookstore and buy a big stack of books for less then $20, and i get most of my books used. eBooks can't beat that, not unless they're 99 cents and i like books from popular well-known authors. People who don't typically sell eBooks for much under 7$ each. And i also don't have a credit card and because I'm 18, i can't get one (without a co-signer) until I'm 21. And also you don't get that book smell with eBooks. And i love the experience of browsing for books in the bookstore, seeing what other people are looking at and talking with them and giving and getting recommendations. I met one of my best friends in the bookstore. And also you can't dog-ear your pages with favorite scenes with an eBook. But i still wouldn't mind having one, however i can put that $130 to $235 towards my college fund or towards good ol' fashioned regular books. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when the tech is even better and they're under $100. To answer the original question. No i don't think we will ever see the demise of physical books, the market might shrink a little, but physical books won't ever stop being published. Not everyone wants an eReader.
Timothy wrote: "Hi Nanette,Indies are in effect at least partially banned from the big book stores over here. Sure, they are 'available', but rarely stocked, even on a 'local' basis. The impression is..."
Thank you for the compliment, Timothy, I don't know why but those words just fell from my head to my mouth and onto to the keyboard of my computer! Sometimes I just amaze myself. Just kidding around !!!
I do worry about the future of books . . . . Everyone is going digital with everything and it seems we all want to keep up with the latest technology. Also, let's face it: abolishing books would certainly save paper and help the environment. But I will never switch from something solid and meaningful I can hold in my hand and admire on a shelf for an electronic reader, or any other gadget. Reading that way is like a completely different activity and I like the old-fashioned method. I am already hoarding my books and planning for the day I become a collector and not just a customer.
Hi Diane, I keep banging on about Indies, many of them, like me use print on demand. It is literally that, you order a book and it is printed, digitally. Try to avoid 'book surge' ie Amazon in house titles, they may have cured the problem now but they had a tendancy to fall to pieces, like I said they may have cured it, I don't know. Check out stuff printed by Lightning Source. Let me know your favourite genre and I'll suggest something appropriate to try.All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
I don't go anywhere without my.... ereader!!! I don't see print books going away ever but I think ereaders are here to stay and there is no way that won't affect print books and the print book market.Look at like this: paper money didn't do away with coins. But it did change how we use coins and how we view them.
Nothing wrong with ebooks Irene, mine are available as ebooks, but NOT on Amazon, it's not worth the hassle, if you live in the States, fair enough if you're an author and happy with 8% !!Get a reader which can download 'smashwords' which give the author 85% , even authors have to eat!!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Thanks for the info. Just now, I have volumes stacked on my shelves to read, (lucky me!)
Hi Diane, fair enough, if you grabbed a good 'Indie' the volumes you have would likely stay stacked.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Happy new year, and may all your books be good ones.
I've got a Nook. I download from whatever site has books that interest me.
I just love real books. I cannot imagine reading a book on an E-reader. I really hope real books never go away because that would make me sad. :(
Hi Detriech,I too love a 'real' book, even if mine are available as 'print on demand', the quality is better by a long way than the mass market paper backs. There really isn't a substitute to holding that first copy of a book, it is a feeling as good for the first copy of the third title, as it was for the first one!!! That said, mine are also available as ebooks, it's a market which cannot be ignored.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
I do worry about the future of books. Already we see how newspapers are dwindling and with the e-readers that less books will be printed. I work in the printing industry and am shocked at how much printing has changed in the past 10 years. I console myself when I buy too many books that I am saving history for my grandchildren.
Hi Susan,The mainstream publishers are the architects of their own destruction. They have no-one else to blame other than themselves. They insist on paying 'celebrities' ridiculous amounts of money for their 'memoirs' etc.
Even dafter is their acquiescence to the 'sale or return' policies of major retailers and the demands for high fees for 'front of store' positions. If they must have sale or return, and their is no reason they should, then put a cap on it at 10% of the print run.
May be you can explain to me, and a lot of others, what is the point of printing often up to ten times as many copies of a book than are ever likely to be sold. The results of this madness is for anyone with a pair of eyes to see. Sagging shelves in 'the remainders stores' loaded to breaking point with 'mass market' paper backs, often poorly edited, recycled stories from fairly well known names, printed on the cheapest paper possible, all wrapped in a cover which goes soft and mushy at the hint of a spilled drink.
Then the two current mass give aways of 1,000,000 books each!! Apart from reducing the work load at the recycling plants what will it achieve? The only possible result is a further decline in book sales!
The authors will not benefit at all from all this madness. As long as things stay as they are, then the sooner it all collapses into the void the better!
Good, even brilliant new authors never get the chance they deserve, as they are effectively excluded from most book shops simply because they cannot afford to 'buy' their sales.
The solution is staring us in the face, it is available now. Digital printing and print on demand. No multi million stacks of books 'left over' to give away or recycle. Never mind ebooks, as long as the majors continue to pour out the celebrity titles and the cut price stuff they will continue to collapse.
Check out some of the 'Indie' books out there, never mind my stuff, look at Carrie King, David Elliot, Sue Rule and Sarah Whittaker to name but a few. From the quality of their stuff there is no need to wonder why 'mainstream' is stagnating.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
I've almost gone exclusively to Kindle since I got mine in December. Picked up a bunch of books. The prohibitive pricing of print books had made my purchases dwindle to a few per year.I love that it's so easy to buy books from the comfort of my computer and my eyes are grateful for the ability to increase font sizes.
I'm not sure if I could transition to Kindle for things like magazines or newspaper yet. Kindle doesn't support the colour that you need to truly appreciate magazine content and as for newspapers...I still like the full paper versions even though I have the larger 9.7 inch Kindle.
Hi Elizabeth,you raised an interesting point, you mention 'prohibitive' pricing. I'd say a fair price for a quality hard back of about 100 to 110,000 words ought to be about £15 to £18, the same book as a quality paper back about £8 is about right. I'm not talking cheap crappy paper, but clear digital print on high quality paper in a durable cover.
With all the rubbish in the current high street, the pressure has been CHEAPER, CHEAPER, all I can say is if you pay crap prices you'll get a crap product and we can all see where that is leading things! The problem is people are becoming accustomed to paying half price or 3for2, so when they see a good book at the proper price they think it is expensive.
Anyone who has never written and published a book have little idea what is involved. Never mind how long it takes to write a decent story, there is then, or should be, proof reading and editing, things often omitted in the search for cost cutting.
Books don't just 'happen' there is a lot of work in a decent book, anyone can write a 'story' to write a 'book' is a vastly different thing, as I found out! And there in lies the crux of the problem, there are too many cheaply produced 'stories' being published with the sole purpose of making a quick buck. If anyone has any ideas on how to sort the wheat from the chaff, please don't hesitate to let me/us know!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Hi PaulYou raise a good point. Though cheaper doesn't necessarily mean crap, nor does more expensive mean quality. I've seen crap appear in all forms as well as good quality. But there tends to be less crap if the book is more expensive, or at least, that's the idea.
One of the issues now, with the advent of ebooks and the ease of self-publishing, is that even big name publishers (i.e the big 6) are facing tough challenges. One of the big 'writing on the wall' signs is Borders being in major financial trouble.
The size of advances are shrinking. A lot of, especially mid-level, authors are finding they're being squeezed. As you said, corners are being cut. We've already seen that with the advent of agents, who are doing the work that publishers used to have their own people do.
But the issue for me isn't that if I want quality, I will have to pay for it. It's that I only have a certain amount of money I can spend on books. That means that I will buy quality books but much less of them than before, because my budget simply can't afford it. Which is why Kindle was a godsend for me. I've been able to pick up a lot of older classics dirt cheap as well as newer books because Kindle versions tend to be cheaper than print.
I was listening to the Business News Network discussing the financial troubles of Borders and how they've stopped paying their publishers until they've sorted out their problems. And one of the comments that was made was, in a few years from now, will a young person pass a bookstore and wonder why anyone would bother buying a printed version. There wasn't any conclusion, but that's one of the things that we will live to see in our generation, or less, if the speed at which DVDs have supplanted video tapes from commercial stores is any indication.
Cheers,
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth,I know just what you mean about the lack of 'disposable' income. My books are available as ebooks as well as print on demand, top quality paperbacks. The quality of the content is of course a matter of personal opinion and taste!.
A possible way forward is to offer a free ebook version of maybe 20% of the full book, as a 'taster'.
Maybe charge a nominal £1 or $1 for the condensed ebook, coupled with a voucher for the cost of the ebook redeemable against the purchase of the P.O.D version.
This could get messy from here on, as zebadee, my handsom ginger and white moggy has decided I need help typing this!!
All the usual games. chin on the space bar, paw[s] chasing the cursor on the screen!! gerrrroffffff!
It's taken longer to correct the last couple of rows than to answer the last three emails!!
Our cats are worse than kids! now two are arguing over possession of the favorite cushion! I give up!
Cats apart and allowing, let me know what you think of the 'taster' idea.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Cat-aided writing :)Amazon does that with their Look Inside program. They offer the first couple of chapters. I think it's a good idea, sort of the equivalent of being able to flip through a book at the bookstore. And the idea of a coupon that can be put against the purchase of a print version is a good one too.
I have a gripes about ebooks, or book marketting on the internet. For instance, on Amazon, unless someone knows your name or your book was recommended, the likelihood that someone will chance on your book is slim. Of course, it's not that different for print books. It still requires a lot of leg-work on the part of the publisher and esp the author to advertise the book. But with all the technology available, surely there is a better way so that more authors can have their books noticed.
What do you think? Any ideas?
Hi Elizabeth, Zebadee and Asbo have settled their spat and are both asleep on the settee!
Your last point is exactly where we get stuck!
How exactly do you/we get the best Indie books to stand out from the flood of 'ordinary' ones, who is to say what are the best books? not the current shower of so called 'critics' that is for sure, most of them wouldn't know a good book if you hit them on the head with it. A few grand would change their mind on a given title, but that puts us back where we are now!
Ultimately it has to be the book buying public who decide, I'll admit, I'm flapping away like a slack sail in a gale trying to find a way forward with this. There has to be a way, if we could but find it!!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Hey PaulAhh, I'm glad the kitties have settled their differences and are gathering their energy for the next spat...
Yes, definitely. I never knew that 90% of the work is in the marketting and publicity. Compared to that writing the book is easy... =P
Being new to it all, it's disconcerting to find yourself as one author amongst a sea of them doing the same thing and everyone is asking the same questions...how do you get noticed? How do you build an audience?
A friend of mine said that a lot of it is luck and that it's always been that way in the publishing industry.
I've been doing a lot of internet research and sending books out to reviewers who might be a good fit and who express and interest in at least reading the book. Plus talking to lots and lots of people :)
Cheers,
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth,welcome to the club!!!!
Careful sending out the books, that can quickly get expensive for little return.
If I ever find a way through this maze I'll let you know. Writing a book to a decent standard is hard enough, but as you said it pales compared with the problems of marketing, no matter how good the product. Most of the problems are artificial, aimed at keeping the 'Indies' out. Well things are changing and it can't happen soon enough!
I noticed you live in Canada, check out a book called 'The Reincarnation of Isaac Brock' by Tony Robinson. I would have thought it was right up your street, it is one of my favourites, but I have no idea why!!
All the best Paul Rix [old geezer]
P. S. the moggies are fast asleep, and I should be too!!
Heya PaulYes, thanks. I've tried to be careful and checked reviewers out first before I contact them, but as you say, it's a maze of discovery.
I'll check out Reincarnation. Thanks for the recommendation.
I guess that means you're off to the land of nod...nite.
Elizabeth
Simon wrote: "I have a gripes about ebooks, or book marketting on the internet. For instance, on Amazon, unless someone knows your name or your book was recommended, the likelihood that someone will chance on yo..."That sounds like an interesting group. Do I have to fulfill both #1 and #2? I haven't won any awards but I do have reviews.
Ah, ok. I have reviews, and I've entered a couple of awards but I'm still waiting for results... Thanks for the info, Simon.
I hope we all get recognition and success :)
At first i was very against ereaders, but ive come to realize that this is the age of technology, so if putting a book on a kindle or kobo etc, gets more people to read then i see nothing wrong with it. I myself have a kobo, but i still read my paper books as well, as will probably buy both paper and electronic books. I do worry about the future of books, so in conclusion ereaders are good as long as they influlence more people to read, but the second i go to a book store and they barely have any books cuz everything is electronic is the second i throw out my kobo. *hoping it dosent come to that*
I really want an eReader but I still have a lot of books to read on my shelves. I love the thought of having a book in my hand but the convenience of an eReader is what I would love instead of a bulky book! I'm really torn but I think I would still have both.
I feel exactly the same way, Sara. But I finally gave in and asked for a Nook Color for my upcoming birthday. I definitely will still read the books on my shelves and they'll be my priority--the first place I turn for a new read. But I like the eReader for convenience in traveling, periodicals and the many other features they offer, (like Pandora radio and word puzzles). Let's face it: eReaders are just cool. And we'll probably all end up reading that way in the not too distant future, so why not begin to get in the habit now. We can still treasure and enjoy our books . . . in fact, they'll become even more precious as collector's items. In short, yes. Do both. lol
I have so many live books to be read on my shelf and my husband gave me a Nook for Christmas. I do love the nook and enjoy reading books on it. I just plan to alternate between the two. Right now I'm reading from my Nook, so the next book will be live off of my TBR shelf. I can't see books totally going by the wayside. What about kids in elementary school? And small children? I would think they need real books with pictures that they can read or have their parents read to them. Books are such a huge part of our culture and I pray they won't disappear.
Hi,the big publishers a constantly shooting themselves in the foot by caving into the major book chains demanding sale or return. This is utter madness. A new title comes out, a chain thinks Oh! we can sell 10,000 of that so they order a 100,000 to get them cheaper per book. After a few weeks the phone the wholesaler 'we don't want any more of ....'
Result a warehouse full of unwanted books and huge remainder sales in the pound shops W.H Smith and the likes, all bought at waste paper prices. The author gets nothing on these 'sales'. Further madness Two X one million book give aways one with chocolate products the other at the end of march from the big publishers. Madness!!!
The sooner Print on Demand is made compulsory the better for everyone! Better quality books and the end of sale or return!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
I think for younger children physical books are crucial (at least until color e-ink technology is improved) as limiting screen time should be a call to action for parents worldwide. But for more serious readers ebooks are wonderful because of the power of having a library in your pocket. I am not any more or less involved by reading on an ereader or paper book - it's all down to the quality of the writing. Just like a good read will have you turning physical pages unconsciously, touching an ereader screen while riveted is just as immersive. When we went from stone tablets to papyrus scrolls I'm sure people bemoaned the future of stone tablets?
Haha I was tired and didn't see last comment was 2011!! Boy will feelings to ebooks have changed since then! 😉
