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Policies & Practices > Asian authors

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Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments Clarification: My understanding is that we enter an Asian author's name the way it is in their culture and on the covers, where the family name is first and the given name second.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

I ask, because I thought that was policy and therefore corrected this. However, now it has again been changed back.


message 2: by Mike Briggs (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments I was curious how the covers put the name. From a quick look at the books on the first page, I see that all but two put the name as Natsume Sōseki. The other two put it Sōseki Natsume.

I haven't dealt with Asian names in eons, and I do not recall if I actually ever did actually, so I do not recall what the current policy is there about name ordering.


message 3: by lethe (last edited Aug 21, 2015 09:55AM) (new)

lethe | 13662 comments I'd say it is the same as with all translated authors, the way the name appears on the English-language covers is the primary author. It doesn't seem useful to have a Sōseki Natsume profile as well (although the English-language covers have o instead of ō). A profile in Japanese script is of course in order.

ETA: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show... (the link in the profile is broken)


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments His Japanese name is Natsume Soseki, not Soseki Natsume. I don't want to get in a change fight with another librarian, which is why I'm posting here.


message 5: by Paula (last edited Aug 21, 2015 10:20AM) (new)

Paula (paulaan) | 7027 comments There was lots of debate about this years ago and I cannot remember the outcome.

One concern with changing the names around, was the sort order in book shelves would be wrong as the code takes the last name in the author profile and displays that (hence the issues with authors with de' in their names),

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 6: by Mike Briggs (last edited Aug 21, 2015 11:00AM) (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments removed something or other about the Romans which just confused me.


message 7: by lethe (last edited Aug 21, 2015 10:32AM) (new)

lethe | 13662 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "His Japanese name is Natsume Soseki, not Soseki Natsume. I don't want to get in a change fight with another librarian, which is why I'm posting here."

According to Wikipedia, the Japanese order is family name - given name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...

But that is OK, because that's what the Japanese profile is for. The international profile should be given name - family name (IMO).


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments lethe wrote: "The international profile should be given name - family name (IMO).
"


I think the name on the international profile should be the way it is most often seen printed on the cover, and the way he is known. In this case, the author is usually printed and known as Natsume Soseki.


message 9: by Mike Briggs (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments lethe wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "His Japanese name is Natsume Soseki, not Soseki Natsume. I don't want to get in a change fight with another librarian, which is why I'm posting here."

According to Wikip..."


Yeah, but most of the English language covers have it as Natsume Sōseki. I see one English language cover that lists the name as Sōseki Natsume, and one Romanian.


message 10: by Mike Briggs (last edited Aug 21, 2015 10:57AM) (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments heh.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... would have it be Natsume Sōseki because rivka, in message 25 (Nov 25 2013), says that Emy is doing just fine. And Emy says to use Natsume Sōseki. ETA: Emy's message indicates that it is Natsume Sōseki because more covers use Natsume Sōseki than Sōseki Natsume.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... indicates that we should use Sōseki Natsume because in message 11 (May 10 2013), rivka says that LoC is the usual final arbiter. And LoC has Sōseki Natsume.

ETA: My head hurts.


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments The librarian manual says:

All editions should have the primary author name as the standard or most common Roman (that is, English-language) version of the author's name. Editions published under another spelling of the name or the name in another language should have that name listed as the secondary author.

This says the primary author is the most common version of the name. So the primary author should be Natsume Soseki. However, it says that if there are editions published under a different spelling, that should be listed as the secondary author. Therefore, it seems reasonable that those editions that have Soseki Natsume on the cover, should have that name as the secondary author.


message 12: by Mike Briggs (last edited Aug 21, 2015 11:10AM) (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "The librarian manual says:

All editions should have the primary author name as the standard or most common Roman (that is, English-language) version of the author's name. Editions published under ..."


Having "Roman" in there is confusing me. Since I recall Julius Caesar when I think Roman, and recall that Julius is his family name. But, bah. His name is actually Gaius Julius Caesar, that first name got dropped for whatever reason when people talk about Julius Caesar, so I get confused.


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments Roman, in this case, refers to language, not to authors.


message 14: by Mike Briggs (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Roman, in this case, refers to language, not to authors."

Then it should say Latin there.


message 15: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13662 comments Mike wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Roman, in this case, refers to language, not to authors."

Then it should say Latin there."


I was confused by that as well at first, but according to my Shorter Oxford, Roman and Latin may be used interchangeably for language.


message 16: by Mike Briggs (new)

Mike Briggs (mikebriggs) | 188 comments lethe wrote: "Mike wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Roman, in this case, refers to language, not to authors."

Then it should say Latin there."

I was confused by that as well at first, but according to my Sho..."


Hmm. I did not know that.


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments Mike wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Roman, in this case, refers to language, not to authors."

Then it should say Latin there."


Well, let's not go and bother there. It says Roman version of the author's name, and parenthetically English-language. In no way could that be determined to mean Roman authors.


message 18: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13662 comments #8-9 It seems we all agree then that the international profile should be given name - family name (unfortunately the English version does not use the ō in his name).


message 19: by Elizabeth (Alaska) (last edited Aug 21, 2015 11:43AM) (new)

Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments lethe wrote: "#8-9 It seems we all agree then that the international profile should be given name - family name (unfortunately the English version does not use the ō in his name)."

No, we don't all agree.


message 20: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13662 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "lethe wrote: "#8-9 It seems we all agree then that the international profile should be given name - family name (unfortunately the English version does not use the ō in his name)."

No, we don't all agree."


I've just been reading up on those other threads and it seems Natsume is the family name? I thought it was the given name.


message 21: by Krazykiwi (new)

Krazykiwi | 1767 comments It's not really language, it's referring to character set. Which doesn't clarify because there is no single agreed on "Latin" character set.

I mean, most of us don't think of all the things on this page when you say latin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

Wandering off into boring techy programmer land below.
(view spoiler)


message 22: by V.W. (new)

V.W. Singer | 13 comments lethe wrote: "#8-9 It seems we all agree then that the international profile should be given name - family name (unfortunately the English version does not use the ō in his name)."

I certainly don't agree. I live in the Far East and seeing Asian (Chinese, Japanese, and some others) names backwards is both insulting and confusing.


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6585 comments lethe wrote: "I've just been reading up on those other threads and it seems Natsume is the family name? I thought it was the given name. "

Yes, Natsume is the family name. This author was born Natsume Kinnosuke.


message 24: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13662 comments V.W. wrote: "I certainly don't agree. I live in the Far East and seeing Asian (Chinese, Japanese, and some others) names backwards is both insulting and confusing."

A lot of the name sorting on GR is insulting and confusing (ask any Spanish-speaking readers). If the names are added the way you want it, they will be sorted on given name on your shelves. His name will appear as Sōseki, Natsume.

(BTW, I was under the mistaken impression that Natsume was his given name, not his family name. And since Natsume Soseki is the most common way his name appears on English-language covers, that should be his international profile name IMO.)


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