A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, #1)
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A Game of Thrones > 08/17/15 - Chapter 30: Eddard VII

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Clara Today we discuss another chapter by Ned.

. I like Ser Barristan even more for standing vigil for Hugh. Also, at first I thought Ned was being a little paranoic thinking they killed him just because they didn't want Ned talking to him. But reading the end of the chapter, I don't think so now.

. I like what Ned replied when they Ser Barristan said the armor was worth a silver, and how Hugh probably didn't finish paying the armorer. “He paid yesterday, my lord, and he paid dearly,” he did indeed.

. So, these two Lannister boys are squires for Robert because Cersei asked him to let them help him. *SPOILERS FOR A SON OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)

. I laughed a lot when Ned told him he was fat. Robert's reactions make me laugh most of the times. Also, Ser Barristan knows him very well. Telling him they will let him win, which is true, stops him, and he doesn't take part in the tourney. If what Varys told Ned at the end of the chapter is true (and I think it is), the queen knows him pretty well too.

. The whole conversation with Robert made me kinda sad. He is a character who has a lot up and downs, and we learn here he is not so blind to everything as it may seemed. When he said he didn't leave the throne just because the thought of Joffrey sitting with Cersei behind him stop him. This is just sad, with him wondering how he could have made a son like Joffrey.

. I wonder why Littlefinger keeps betting Jaime will win. And he calls him Kingslayer, when it was mention in Jon's second chapter if I remember correctly they called him Lion of Lannister in his face, and Kingslayer on his back.

. I adore Jaime, but I laughed with what happened to him.

. I forgot Ser Gregor was about to marry for the third time. Who would want to marry a person like him? He seems he has killed a lot of people, his wives, his father, but not his brother. Also, you can just tells how he is by his reaction. Killing his horse, and almost killing Loras. The Hound didn't hit him, which kinda surprised me.

. What did the Knight of Flowers think will happened? I bet he didn't think he was about to die, or maybe he consider it? We don't know him that well now, so we can only speculate. Why did he want to Mountain to lose?

. I really liked how Sansa treated Arya in the feast. I laughed when she said Arya must be terrible at dancing. Also, she seems to take it really seriously, and it's getting better.

. He thinks again why this boy Gendry, one among many bastards, is so important. Or was, to Jon.

. The whole conversation with Varys was so interesting. He didn't trust Ned at the beggining, and that shocks him. Varys seems to trust people who "are loyal to the realm", as he seems to be. He even knows what poison was used to kill Jon Arryn, and that a attack agains Robert will probably happen soon. And tells him Hugh was killed so he couldn't talk. What did he have to say?

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments I haven't put much thought into what Ser Loras was thinking when he jousted against the Mountain. I think he wasn't thinking too far into it. He wanted to get an advantage over him so he chose to ride a mare in heat, which to me was clever, though I wonder how much of it was cheating. And I certainly didn't expect Gregor to be such a sore loser! It kind of makes me wonder what Tywin Lannister would have to say if he was here. How embarrassing to have somebody like that in your army! I also really liked how the Hound never once hit him. I thought this was surprising after reading it a second time. I didn't catch it before how smart the Hound is, and a better man. I also noticed that when the king shouts for them to stop and Sandor immediately knelt, he made himself incredibly vulnerable. If the Mountain hadn't have stopped in time, he could have killed his brother right in front of everybody. I think Sandor knew this, yet he took the risk anyway. This makes him very brave, in my opinion. A part of me wonders if he was doing it to impress Sansa, lol, but probably not. He was just doing his duty.

1. The squire who just became a knight who would know something about Jon Arryn's death is conveniently killed by a Lannister bannerman -- certainly looks to me like the Lannisters are in on the murder, and wanted to kill the witness before Ned could get to him. Even Sandor said the boy had no business riding in their company. It's too coincidental for me to think it was an accident. The Mountain knows just where to put his lance, and he deliberately killed him. He didn't have to, but he did.

2. Hugh was Jon's squire for four years, knighted in Jon Arryn's memory, though Ser Barriston thinks it was too early, the boy wasn't ready.

3. I like what Ned says: "This is needless. War should not be a game." Yet it is to a lot of the upperclass in this world...it's sad.

4. Now the king wants to join the tourney. Who wants to unhorse their king? lol And of course he is drinking beer in the morning...

5. I like how blunt Ned is with Robert. Tells him he's too fat for his armor. And the king laughs! He enjoys tormenting his Lannister squires.

6. Ned thinks it's noteworthy that Cersei has two of her cousins be squires for her husband; he thinks the Lannisters are ambitious. They are everywhere. They may as well be running King's Landing!

7. I REALLY like how Ned bluntly says Robert never knew Lyanna as he did -- he only saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. He says she would have said the same thing as his wife: stay out of the melee. I wonder if Robert knew how tough a fighter Lyanna was? Would he still love her? How shallow can Robert be? I wonder if Lyanna ever wanted to marry him? Questions we may never know the answer to... To me, Robert is insulting Lyanna by saying he loved her and yet he also loves whores. Surprised Ned doesn't think about this.

8. I like that Ser Barriston defends Ned, backs him up. "It would not be a fair contest. Who would dare strike you?" Ned realizes Ser Barriston has reminded Robert of his pride -- he wouldn't win because he was any good...he'd only win because he's the king. Ha!

9. I don't like that Robert makes empty threats...threatening to kill Selmy, wtf. Though I do like that he admits Ned or Jon Arryn should have been king. I don't know why Robert had the better claim? He started the rebellion, but any one could have taken the throne, really. Ned would never have wanted it, I know that. And Jaime certainly seemed to enjoy sitting on the throne.

10. Now I really like Robert again, admitting he's fat and sucks at ruling. He only married Cersei because Jon Arryn told him to. He also apologizes for the wolf business, awe. And he knows his son was lying. Well if he knew it he should have had the balls to say it at the time! You're the f*cking king! Don't let your wife guilt you into doing what you know in your heart is not right! He sounds pussywhipped, lol.

11. And WOW at Robert admitting the only thing stopping Robert from abandoning the throne is the thought of his son sitting the Iron Throne with his mom behind him, whispering in his ear...doesn't he know that he would eventually die at some point? He hates his son. He knows what he is, but I suppose there's nothing really he can do about it. In this world people usually become king if they're the oldest living son to the last king. It would be such a scandal if Robert denied Joffrey in favor of Tommen, who at this point is even younger than 12. How sad, the dilemma he is in.

12. I can tell Ned desperately wants Robert to be the man he once was -- and for a little while he seems to have made a breakthrough.

13. I like that Sansa seems genuinely happy that Sandor beat Jaime. :) I don't recall if Jaime did anything particular to make her hate him, other than be related to Cersei.

14. Interesting that Renly brings up Tyrion again, mentioning Petyr's story that the Imp bets against his brother and wins *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTER IN A GAME OF THRONES* (view spoiler) I wonder how much Renly knows? Is it merely a joke, or is he saying something else to Petyr?

15. I seem to have forgotten how much hell Robert gives Jaime...laughing at him all the time. He's really an ass to the dude who killed a king!

16. There's something strange about Gregor...that he even is bigger than Hodor! What is he, part giant? Almost 8 feet tall...I didn't know he was to be married a third time...rumored to have killed his last two wives. Gregor inherited the Clegane estate and everything. What keep did the Cleganes belong to?

17. I think it's clever of Loras to use a mare in heat to win against Gregor, and Gregor is a sore loser. He kills his horse and tries to kill Loras too, but Sandor comes to the rescue and ends up winning the tourney for that. Ha! He doesn't even want the honor. Why does he participate in jousting, then?

18. As much as Sandor hates his brother, has that right, he does have some standards. He won't become a kinslayer, even with Gregor trying his best to kill him. What a monster! Wow...and he even has the balls to glare at the king and stomp off without bowing. *SPECULATION ON SANDOR CLEGANE* (view spoiler)

19. I like how nothing frightens Thoros of Myr. :) He has his god on his side so he has nothing to fear, I guess.

20. Also love how Sansa tells Arya she must be a terrible dancer to receive bruises like those. Ha!

21. Odd Ned doubts Syrio Forel's teaching methods. His daughter honestly doesn't mind getting beat up. And I like how she says, "Every hurt is a lesson."

22. Interesting how Robert loved all of his known bastards.

23. Varys is an excellent actor, and he knows the Red Keep's secrets... Hmm...

24. I think Varys is so clever. It comes easy to him. That can be dangerous if you're not on his side, however. He's such a great actor. I really want to like him, but I have to take Tyrion's advise to heart: Trust nobody.

25. I think it's funny Ned was astonished that Varys didn't trust him. Of course, Ned knows he's one of the most trustworthy man alive. Varys makes a good point -- there are two kinds of people in the Red Keep, "Those who are loyal to the realm, and those who are loyal only to themselves." And then he compliments Ned, "I begin to comprehend why the queen fears you so much." :) And lol at his response, "You are the one she ought to fear."

26. It's funny Ned thinks the North is simpler, that their enemies are winter and wildlings...oh, it's not that simple, Ned...

27. I really like and trust Varys in this chapter, but I want to be very careful. Varys is a mystery, a master actor, knows almost everything, very clever. He could be tricking us all, the readers. I want Varys to be good, but I won't bet my life on it.

Clara I don't think he did it for Sansa. But I know people write a lot of fanfiction about them.

Well, about Robert and Lyanna, she's been dead for a long time, and I think that's just his way to forget about her. But I do think he loves her even now, he makes me think that with some of the things he have said. But we have to considerate how he doesn't sleep with Cersei that much, and in this world almost every men visit brothels, even when they are married. But I do believe he didn't know her as much as Ned did.

I really like Varys. I think he is very smart, and can manipulate people really well. And he keeps surprising me all the time! I think he is one of the most interesting characters in the series, you trust him in one chapter and in the next you don't!

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments But Robert had been whoring around before he met Lyanna...old habits die hard, I guess. I personally felt it was insulting to her memory. Sounded like he didn't know her very well, just that she was beautiful and Ned's sister and if they got married that would make Ned his brother. Ugh. You are right, most men do visit brothels even when married, but you can't deny that Robert took it to the extreme.

And I agree with you. It is hard not to like Varys, even though Ned and Catelyn don't get a good feeling about him. I think he is so mysterious, I never know what to expect from him. One chapter I really like him, in another one I don't so much.

Clara Yes, of course, I am not defending him, but I just had the idea that maybe, if Lyanna had lived, he would stop. But it's true he didn't really know her, and just thought she was beautiful. Maybe (which is hard to believe), if he ever felt something for Cersei, I think he saw her beauty as well.

Yes! And I think that's what makes him so interesting! I guess that's the word to define Varys.

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