A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, #1)
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A Game of Thrones > 08/12/15 - Chapter 23: Daenerys III

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message 1: by Dani, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Khaleesi and queen (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dani (cheapregrets) | 57 comments Mod
Tomorrow we will try to discuss Daenerys' third chapter.


Clara . "The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end.” I totally forgot Jorah said this, and what they believe will happen.

. When Jorah tells her she is learning to talk like a queen, she replies: “Not a queen, a khaleesi.” Famous quote of her, I even read it before I read the book. Of course I had no idea what a khaleesi was.

. She said all her life her brother had told her she was a princess, but the first time she felt like one was riding her Silver.

. So, a controversial part. How Drogo treats her. I know she gave consent on her last chapter I believe, but let's remember she is 13 years old. So, did she even know what she was saying yes to? I discuss this with one of my friends, and even if we agreed in this world children grow really fast, we still think she didn't know what would happen after she said yes. Like in this chapter, when she cries a lot, and she says he rides her, like she was an animal. I don't know, I know they both have different backgrounds but he knows she is a girl, and a scared one (at first at least) and he should treat her better. I mean, she cries, is he deaf to her cries? And he hurts her so much she could not sleep. Like, come on man.

. Her dream is important, because it was different from the ones she used to have. And it made her not wanting to die and to see things differently.

. Then little bitch Viserys shows up and complains about Dany giving him, the king of the world, orders. When Jhogo whipped him, I cannot deny I was satisfied.

. So, she finally sees him as what a is, a pitiful thing, in her words. I'm glad she opened her eyes and she's not scared of him anymore.

. Ah, when she orders them to take his horse and he is forced to walk behind the khalasar, knowing for the Dothraki the men who could not ride was not men at all. And Viserys telling Jorah to hit her, ugh he is despicable.

. Jorah says her brother Rhaegar was the last dragon. Is this the first time he says this to her? I can't quite remember.

. "“What do you pray for, Ser Jorah?” she asked him. “Home,” he said. His voice was thick with longing." We know he does, so much he is spying on her.

. “A trader from Qarth once told me that dragons came from the moon.” I like the story Doreah tells her about dragons.

. Man, 14 and pregnant. What a life.


message 3: by Vicki (last edited Aug 19, 2015 10:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments About the way Drogo treats her, I suppose you're right there. It does seem really different from the last chapter where they are making love. Now he just treats her basically the way Dothraki girls are treated. That's how I saw it. It is sad, but grabbing a girl you find attractive to have sex with her and murdering other men so you can have sex with her is despicable, so I hardly see why Drogo having sex with Daenerys the way he does is any worse. I do agree I find it strange he suddenly doesn't care that she's crying, except I don't think he knew she was crying, because she says she hides her tears from him. And at night he's sleeping so he doesn't hear her sobbing. I think part of this is her fault, because she tries to keep it hidden from him for fear he'll abuse her the way Viserys would abuse her.

And about Rhaegar, I don't remember if Jorah talked about Rhaegar before, or any more, to Dany. I want to learn as much as I can about him.

1. Jorah describes the Dothraki Sea, which is really a vast stretch of grassy plains. When the flowers bloom, dark red is everywhere "like a sea of blood." And there are a hundred kinds of grasses. I'd like to see grasses as dark as indigo!

2. Jorah also mentions the Shadowlands beyond Asshai, too, that have ghost grass, with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki believe the world will end when ghost grass covers the entire world. Spooky! Totally forgot about this part. I wonder if this will come into play in future books?

3. When Dany says, "It's so beautiful here, I don't want to think about everything dying." I couldn't help but think about what might happen if the Others get past that Wall!

4. Didn't realize Viserys had the option of waiting for Drogo at Pentos with Illyrio. Instead he chose to go with. His mistake. Makes me wonder again what game Illyrio is playing.

5. Dany feels at peace with the 'sea.' And Jorah's smiles give her comfort, though she finds him hairy and unattractive. "Not a queen," said Dany. "A khaleesi." I wonder if there is deeper meaning here. *MY SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE AFTER ROBERT BARATHEON* (view spoiler)

6. Why would the Khal ignore her? Is it a cultural thing, where women were merely property? And whatever happened to the lovemaking??? Now it sounds like he's raping her. Odd she even wanted to kill herself, I'd totally forgotten about this part! It's horrible.

7. Dreaming of her black dragon gives her the will to go on. Her dreams of being scorched clean actually helps her body to adjust to the pain in real life, neat! She's no longer fragile but tough, strong.

8. Dany loves her silver.

9. Forgot all about the land of Essos... the rivers, the ruins, forest of Qohor... and everyone's afraid of the Dothraki. What a chaotic way to live. Someone needs to do something about them...

10. The lemurs have silver hair and huge purple eyes. WTF!?!? Sounds like the Targaryens!

11. Eventually she has orgasms at night instead of pain. I took this to mean she is coming into her role as a strong Dothraki woman, not a scared innocent little girl. Especially later, when she learns to ride him mercilessly.

12. She's trying to get away from her brother who's ruining the beauty for her, lol.

13. Incredibly ballsy of her to shove him away when he threatens her! Love it! She's never defied him before until now. You can definitely see how living life as a Dothraki is changing her for the better.

14. It's fortunate her bloodriders came when they did and stopped Viserys before he hurt her; and it's merciful of Dany to not want him harmed. He's still her brother, after all. Now she realizes how pitiful he is -- how he always has been. She feels hollow now where fear used to be. :)

15. Though she does not want him harmed she still wants him to pay, and he will by public humiliation. Ha!

16. Jorah choosing Dany's side over Viserys speaks volumes for me. He does not want to serve a crazy madman; he'd rather serve a 14-year-old girl. He even tells her Rhaegar was the last dragon, "Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake." Ha! But what does he mean, Rhaegar was the last dragon? Last good Targaryen king? The last dragons died out over 150 years ago!

17. Love this part:

"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends, "Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are."

-- The basis of ASOIAF right there. Also the first mention of the title. :) Dany can't help but agree with Jorah, after a time.

18. Ser Jorah prays for home... awe. I hope he gets to go home! *SPOILER FOR A STORM OF SWORDS* (view spoiler)

19. Now she sees King's Landing when she thinks of home. Interesting, since she's never been there.

20. The eggs are supposedly only stone... But they are heating up for Dany! Right now we are wondering with Dany whether or not she is imagining it or if it is real. That they are incubating. *SPOILER FOR A CLASH OF KINGS* (view spoiler)

21. Dany had heard the first dragons came from the east, from the shadowlands beyond Asshai and the islands of the Jade Sea. I thought they came from the pits of Valyria, though, or is that where humans first tamed them?

22. The last dragons had died more than 150 years ago, during the reign of Aegon III, aka Dragonbane. Wonder why...?

23. When the Doom hit Valyria, magic died in the west...but Dany knows there's still manticores, basilisks, spellsingers, warlocks, aeromancers, shadowbinders, and bloodmages in the east. If they're all still around, why not dragons? That's very true. Wonder what all those things/people above mentioned are...

24. Irri says dragons are "terrible evil beasts." What's that say about Dany, then?

25. Doreah, who is not Dothraki, a slavegirl from Lys, was from a whorehouse. She says dragons came forth from a cracked moon that got too close to the sun. This story sounds like such a fantastic fable, too fantastic to be real even for the World of Ice and Fire. She also says dragons will return again when the other moon cracks. *SPECULATION ON THE PTWP* (view spoiler)

26. Doreah taught her how to please Khal Drogo, and one night Dany takes him outside and rides him this time, where everyone can see. I'd be so embarrassed if that were me, lol. But apparently everything of importance in a man's life must be done under the open sky: I love this! Khal Drogo being manned by a woman is important in his life. She is a force to be reckoned with, is how I took this meaning. Apparently he really likes it. I wonder if he's ever been ridden before. ;) Very sexy, and so now not only is Dany stronger and tougher, but she's sexually more powerful too. Sexually in control of her life.

27. Pregnant at 14... she had to grow up fast! Already we can tell she is growing up to be an incredibly strong person, one of the strongest characters in the entire series.


message 4: by Clara (last edited Aug 22, 2015 03:37AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Clara Maybe it's her fault as well, for not telling her. But even if Drogo doesn't scare her that much now, perhaps it scares her telling Drogo how much she is hurting her. I guess you can analyze the situation from a lot of angles.

*SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Vicki Kalb | 310 comments *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Clara *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Vicki Kalb | 310 comments *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Clara *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Vicki Kalb | 310 comments *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Clara *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


message 11: by Vicki (last edited Aug 28, 2015 02:48PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)

Also... (view spoiler)


Clara *SPECULATION ON WHO WILL ULTIMATELY RULE* (view spoiler)


Vicki Kalb | 310 comments Oh, you're fine! I am a little bit too obsessed with the series and thoughts keep going through my mind what could happen and what won't. I try not to get my hopes up for anything that isn't written in the books or confirmed by the author in interviews. I might make a lot of speculations but I don't want you to think I believe them to be the absolute truth. It's fun talking about them, and hearing what other people have to say. :)

*SPOILER FOR A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)


Clara Oh, I see! I do think about it a lot, but I try not to because so many things cross my mind. But I understand why you do it. Sometimes I found myself speculating, even if I don't want to, it's hard not to do it. I really, really like hearing (or in this case reading) other people¿s thoughts. There are things I think about, but some never crossed my mind. And it is fun!


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