A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

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A Game of Thrones > 08/11/15 - Chapter 20: Eddard IV

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message 1: by Dani, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Khaleesi and queen (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dani (cheapregrets) | 57 comments Mod

Clara . I wonder if they noticed Ned went with borrowed clothes to his first council meeting.

. I forgot how much alike Ned thinks Renly looks to a younger Robert.

. It seems like it's not much love between Littlefinger and Renly.

. Looks like Maester Pycelle has study a lot. Two dozen
heavy chains are quite a lot.

. Totally forgot Stannis was in King's Landing before Robert went North.

. So Robert does not do most of the work. Seems like the small council takes a lot of decisions in his name.

. They spend a lot of many, and the crown has a huge, huge debt (with half being borrowed from the Lannisters). Pycelle tells Ned Jon Arryn warn Robert about this, but he didn't listen to him. So probably he won't listen to Ned either.

. I like how polite Ned asking them to forgive him, even though he is the Hand and could treat them as he likes.

. "Sansa blamed Arya and told her that it should have been Nymeria who died. And Arya was lost after she heard what had happened to her butcher’s boy. Sansa cried herself to sleep, Arya brooded silently all day long, and Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell." They aren't having the greatest time.

. We can tell Petyr is clever, he has Catelyn in a brothel he owns, a place no one would suspect the wife of the Hand would be. And he seems to know the castle pretty well.

. Jon is mention again, as Vicki pointed out in a previous disscusion. Ned remembers when he told him his children were meant to have the direwolves. Seems he was right, at least with Bran.

."Our good Robert is practiced at closing his eyes to things he would rather not see.” Well, looks like the king looks the other way often.

. Petyr tells him to drop the dagger in the river and forget about it. Maybe he knows something?

. Catelyn thinks Varys has some dark art. She is so superstitious.

. When Catelyn thanked Littlefinger for everything, he replied: "I have spent years convincing the court that I am wicked and cruel, and I should hate to see all that hard work go for naught.” Take note on that one.

. Ned thinks a war will occur, and tells his wife to message his bannerman as soon as she gets to Winterfell. The first time I read the book I thought it was so sudden.

. Ned start doubting Robert, maybe based a lot in what Littlefinger said. Did Petyr intend that to happen?

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments You're right about Renly and Littlefinger, I had forgotten about that. It seems nobody likes Littlefinger in King's Landing, but everybody needs him because he's the Master of Coin and he has Robert by the balls, if you ask me, monetary-wise. For being Master of Coin, you'd think he'd say something to Robert about how horrible it is he is in a ghastly amount of debt. Kind of reminds me of most of the world these days. Debt is no big deal to a lot of us. We all turn a blind eye to credit card payments. We all want our tourneys, our wine, our time to hunt and have fun, but none of the responsibility of paying it all back.

1. I wonder if Ned got to King's Landing before or after Cat?

2. As much as Ned wants to rest, he is dutiful enough to go into his first councilors meeting as Hand right as soon as he arrives. Impressive. Very dutiful. Ned is such a good, responsible man.

3. Tried looking up the word 'rushes' in my dictionary but wasn't satisfied with any of its answers, so I looked it up online and this is what I got (because rushes on the floor confused the crap out of me): "Rushes (Juncaceae family) are a sweet smelling, flowering plant that has been used for a number of domestic purposes including flooring material. When fresh, they added both insulation and a pleasant aroma to cover up the--frequently--muddy earthen floor. When old, some homes/cultures simply strew more rushes over the top to cover them and either rarely if ever cleaned them out. Other families might clean them out weekly or monthly."

If this is the case, I didn't expect the Red Keep to have earthen floors, like, anywhere. lol...

4. Ned likes Varys the least. Has he met him before? The first thing he says is how sorry he is about their troubles and hopes Joffrey gets better, ha! Like Ned cares... And why does Varys leave powder on Ned's shoulder? Is it perfume? For some reason this makes me think Varys is creepy.

5. Ned feels Renly has "grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting." Apparently Renly looks like a younger version of Robert, so he must be handsome and strong compared to fat and ugly. It's sad how Robert allowed himself to get this way. He was impressive once.

6. Renly's in dark green again, this time velvets, with golden stags embroidered, and an emerald brooch. He really likes the color green for the Baratheon sigil being black stag on gold...

7. Ned has no patience with this game they play -- dueling with words. To me it's petty, so I agree with Ned here. Interesting for the first five minutes, then it gives even me a headache, lol.

8. In the beginning I really like Grand Maester Pycelle. He seems like a cute old man. He even has two dozen chains, indicating he has mastered 24 subjects of learning. Pretty impressive.

9. Just as he's about to start Ned realizes, forcefully, how much he doesn't belong here. I hadn't realized these premonitions occurred so often the first time I read the book. That things are going to go very badly for Ned if he stays here.

10. So Stannis up until recently has been on council? Didn't know that. Totally glossed this over my first read.

11. Here we learn just how much Robert cares about running a kingdom: zilch. He can't even be bothered to go to council meetings, ever. No wonder the country has gone to shit; the king knows how to conquer, but he can't rule, because he finds it boring. He's an unfit leader. Even Ned thinks: "Was there no end to Robert's folly?" What Robert thinks is urgent Ned thinks is stupid; holding a tourney when he's already in debt! How ignorant can you be, Robert? Why isn't anyone, besides Jon Arryn and Ned, strongly urging their king to pay attention to their finances? Why isn't the Master of Coin doing this??? This makes me distrust Petyr Baelish even more.

12. Of course the Lannisters would love to bear your debt... They already owe Tywin three million gold dragons as it is! And another three million in other places. Apparently this is not Aerys's doing either, as he left loads of money in the bank when Robert took the throne. This is really sad.

13. I like that Ned forgot he's now among equals; he's no longer in Winterfell. He can't always be so final with these people as he could to his subjects up North. Despite Varys telling Ned earlier that as Hand they wait on him, I think Ned is wise in realizing that they are ALL equal on the council and he should remember to treat them as he would want them to treat him.

14. "Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell." Oh dear...this almost sounds like a premonition.

15. I'm not liking Petyr when he jokes he'll keep Cat for himself; it sounds like he's still not over her. And how rude can you get, saying that to her husband?

16. I think Littlefinger's enjoying making it seem like he's insulting Cat, at a brothel, just to piss Ned off.

17. I find it funny how husband and wife will refer to each other as 'my lady' and 'my lord.' So formal.

18. Now that he heard how Summer saved Bran's life he feels guilty murdering Lady. How horrible is that? Now he fears he's pissed off the gods because the direwolves were supposedly their gifts to his children. Ned remembers Sansa's pleading, "as Lyanna had pleaded once." Hmm... This in the same paragraph that said Robert talked of killing Dany, and turning his head away at Rhaegar's murdered infant son... How Robert doesn't care about killing innocent children to get what he wants... *SPECULATION ON A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)

19. *SPOILER FOR A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)

20. "It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised." Like who, exactly?

21. Anything Littlefinger says I distrust. He's saying worry about the Lannisters, but I already worry about the Lannisters at this point, and so does Ned. Cersei, particularly. Now Petyr's saying to worry about them, making me question whether Petyr's actually on Ned's side or not.

22. It's so sad, their final goodbyes, between Cat and Ned. *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTERS IN GAME OF THRONES* (view spoiler) And the way she holds him... "...as if to hold him safe forever in the shelter of her arms." *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTERS IN GAME OF THRONES* (view spoiler) I had forgotten how much of a sheltering character Catelyn Stark is.

23. I roll my eyes at sarcasm, and Petyr does it so much. It's aggravating.

24. Ned wants a careful watch over Theon? Why? *SPOILER FOR A CLASH OF KINGS* (view spoiler) Odd, since he's not mentioned at all this whole chapter. He says he'll need the Greyjoy fleet. Is it going anywhere? lol

Clara I believe Ned got to King's Landing first, but I can't say I'm sure.
I agree with you, someone should have tell Robert how much he was spending. I mean, I know he doesn't listen to people, but still he spent so much money, someone whould have said something.

Vicki Kalb | 310 comments I don't think Robert is the kind of king who would punish, or even kill, someone just for strongly urging him not to get into more debt. So I don't think it's their fears of that stopping them from having a heart to heart with their king. I'm beginning to think these people just don't care if Robert gets himself into deeper trouble with debt -- as long as they're not the ones suffering because of it, who cares? It's terrible, though, because Robert doesn't have any money left for the citizens of King's Landing to, you know, eat and stuff. The rich don't care about the poor, and that is sad.

Clara Yeah, I think you are right. I mean, all the people near him live surrounded by luxury, so I don't think they mind what happens to the poor. And it is sad, but it happens a lot, in the books and in life too. But he spent so much money, the one Aerys left, and the 6 millions of the debt now. It's too much!

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