Outlander Series discussion

The Outlander Series 7-Book Bundle: Outlander / Dragonfly in Amber / Voyager / Drums of Autumn / The Fiery Cross / A Breath of Snow and Ashes / An Echo in the Bone
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Characters > Claire, Jamie, and Willie

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message 1: by Sally (last edited Aug 11, 2015 01:43PM) (new)

Sally G | 3 comments I have one simple question, or maybe two. I only read the first 4 books a WHILE back and I am trying to remember when Claire finds out who William's biological father is. And what was her reaction? Was she upset or just understanding? Which book and chapter should I look up to read more about it? For the life of me, I cannot remember (there is a lot happening in each book)and I don't want to go through thousands of pages trying to find that exact conversation. Thanks.


message 2: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 65 comments It's mentioned in Voyager. I think it comes up when Claire and Jamie are in Jamaica and Lord John arrives to take the governor's position. Lord John gives Jamie a carved picture of Willie. Lord John actually reveals the existence of Willie while Claire is waiting with Lord John in his office during the inquisition (after a woman is discovered murdered in the Governor's residence believed to have been killed at the hand of Mr. Willoughby).

I don't remember Claire being excessively upset about the existence of Willie. She's more upset by her perception of the relationship between Lord John and Jamie.

Anyhow, Claire actually gets to meet Willie in Drums of Autumn when he and Lord John travel to his wife's land in Virginia. They travel from Charleston and trek through Fraser's Ridge purposely so Jamie can see his son. Claire notes the striking resemblance to Brianna more so than Jamie. Willie has prominent Fraser features (they favor their father), but Claire remarks how similar Willie and Bree are.

Hope that helps you out.


message 3: by Sally (new)

Sally G | 3 comments Thanks that helps a lot. Now, bits and pieces are coming back to me.

Doesn't anyone find it weird that Claire is not upset by the fact that he fathered a child with another woman? I know Frank was sterile, which is why she didn't get pregnant when she was with Frank, but shouldn't she be a bit hurt by the fact that Jamie has a son with someone other than her?


message 4: by Diane (new)

Diane | 1360 comments I also think she was upset that he kept it from her especially after the Laoghaire incident.


message 5: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 65 comments Claire was definitely more upset by the secrecy than the end result. I think that is kind of a central theme in Voyager - secrecy and the rippling effects of it.

Jamie does end up saying at some point in Voyager that he was just so shocked and grateful for Claire's return that he feared losing her if he told everything about the 20 years they'd been apart. Jamie has his own concerns about what Claire had been up to all that time. I found it kind of amusing that they each subconsciously expected the other to be celibate until they died. Those weren't the exact words used. But Jamie expressed jealousy and hatred towards Frank because Claire went back to him. And Claire was expecting Jamie to just be dead, so finding out that he had fathered a child in England and was married to Loaghaire completely threw her for a loop.

But they never really talk about it. Over on the Voyager thread, there's a lot of discussion about how Claire and Jamie just kind of move on and don't really process everything that happened in the 20-year gap. My rationale is that they are just so overwhelmed by reuniting that nothing else really mattered. They really are "live in the now" characters. Why rehash 20 years that can't be changed?


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Lauren wrote: "Claire was definitely more upset by the secrecy than the end result. I think that is kind of a central theme in Voyager - secrecy and the rippling effects of it.

Jamie does end up saying at some ..."


I am one of those readers that likes things hashed out. However, you make a great point Lauren and that makes it easier for me to swallow. LOL


message 7: by Mary (last edited Aug 13, 2015 03:50PM) (new)

Mary (poetsdream) | 196 comments Sally wrote: "I have one simple question, or maybe two. I only read the first 4 books a WHILE back and I am trying to remember when Claire finds out who William's biological father is. And what was her reaction?..."

It was definitely in Voyager at Lord John's ball where she finds out. As other's have said she was probably more upset that Jamie didn't trust her enough to tell her right away. Same with his marriage to Leoghaire. Coming back she thought he might have re-married but when he didn't say anything about that she thought he didn't have another family. I think Claire understood it though she was angry it was Leoghaire the woman who tried to kill her. However, Jamie didn't have the time she had to consider everything when she 1st returned. He wanted time to re-establish their relationship before he told her about his marriage to Leoghaire. He didn't tell her about William because of her reaction to finding out about Leoghaire. They had only been back together for 4 months when they were at Lord John's ball, and much of that time they were separated by her being taken on the British Man of War ship.

I think Jamie should of told Claire before she found out the way she did (both times) but I do understand why he didn't.

He said he was afraid to tell her because if he did she'd leave him, and if that happened he couldn't bear it. He does say that in Voyager when he finally tells her about William and Geneva. He says how can I tell you about Leoghaire, about Geneva, about John, about William and then say it's only been you I ever loved. How would you believe me? And Claire say's If you say it I'll believe it. Then he asks her why? and she say's because you are an honest man Jamie Fraser.

As other's suggested Claire probably would of been more upset had Jamie loved Geneva. I think Claire see's her love of Jamie as soul mates do. They might be with other people but their love was something special, something unique. She could never imagine Jamie feeling that way for another, any more than she could never feel that way for another herself.

If she was wrong about that then that would destroy her whole premise for being with him. So of course she wanted him to tell her he didn't love Geneva and was worried he might have.

He didn't love anyone else so she wasn't upset.

What I thought was more interesting was her jealousy of Lord John even once she figured out he was gay? Any thoughts on that?


message 8: by Mrsbooks (new)

Mrsbooks | 399 comments Mary wrote: "What I thought was more interesting was her jealousy of Lord John even once she figured out he was gay? Any thoughts on that? ..."


I thought that was really weird at the time.


message 9: by Lauren (new)

Lauren | 65 comments The Lord John jealousy. Oy. We need a psychiatrist for that mess.

Or a new discussion thread.


message 10: by Mary (new)

Mary (poetsdream) | 196 comments Lauren wrote: "The Lord John jealousy. Oy. We need a psychiatrist for that mess.

Or a new discussion thread."

I think it could be an interesting discussion too.


message 11: by Brizo (new)

Brizo (brizosdream) | 320 comments Sally wrote: "Thanks that helps a lot. Now, bits and pieces are coming back to me.

Doesn't anyone find it weird that Claire is not upset by the fact that he fathered a child with another woman? I know Frank wa..."

I don't think she should be after all they were apart for 20 years and he was in his early 20's when she left so as a doctor I would think she could imagine that this was a possibility before she went back to him. Although when she first see's Willie in Drums of Autumn she is taken back by it at first. But because he's so much like Bree and Jamie, she feels more motherly towards him than upset.


message 12: by Brizo (new)

Brizo (brizosdream) | 320 comments Sally wrote: "I have one simple question, or maybe two. I only read the first 4 books a WHILE back and I am trying to remember when Claire finds out who William's biological father is. And what was her reaction?..."

If you read back a page that's just what we've been discussing. It happened at LJG Ball in on the Island of Jamacia. Lord John tells her about Willy and Jamie and a bit about his friendship with Jamie. She's upset Jamie didn't tell her himself, and wonders about both if he loved Geneva and what his actual relationship was with LJG that would allow him to befriend him and give him his son.


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