The Shining - Beginning 7/24/15

[Kandice]

Sean and I are beginning today and anyone is welcome to join us. Neither of us plan on racing through it, and since a re-read (about the 10th) for me, we should have a good discussion. :D

[Kandice]

I envy you that experience! I first read it decades ago...

[Ana]

Hope you have fun, that one is a classic and I look forward to hearing what you think while reading it :)

[Kandice]

Sean, have you read 1408 by King? Ulman kind of reminds me of the hotel manager in that one as I read.

Didn't get very far today, but I have to say. I forgot how comfortable this book is. I've read it so many times and am amazed at the new things that stick out or occur to me each time. The book never changes (Thank God!) but I do.

[Melaslithos]

I read this book when I was in high school, and got traumatized by it. Same as for Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch, my copy is currently locked somewhere unaccessible, or I would have joined you. A re-read might helpe me get over it. I'll just have to do it later.

[Kandice]

Many, many people feel this is his best book period and I can't really disagree. I never lose my love for this book despite years of rereading.

Not sure if you have seen Kubrick's movie, but you can love both, just keep in mind they are NOT the same story.

Melas, you should try again now that you are an adult. I bet you will take different things from it. It's scary, true, but in a more psychological way as you get older. Maybe that's not an endorsement?!?! :D

[Kandice]

Seán wrote: "I haven't seen the movie. I'm not sure I should watch it!"

I'm glad you haven't! It's absolutely worth watching, but after you read.

[Kandice]

What's happening at page 50 (or so)? I'm taking my Nook to a soccer tournament today and there is a lot of down time so I should get some reading done.

[Kandice]

I'm still with Jack in the boiler room at this point. He hasn't even left the Overlook.

[Ana]

Oh don't even get me started on that movie. I feel it's total disrespect to the book to even consider them the same story. It made a joke out of Jack's character, not to mention the pathetic role of his wife. Yes, it's scary, but it is utterly unrelated to the book and there are some very weak things in it.

The book, though... Wonderful piece of art. I absolutely love the development of Jack's character. Because there was actual development in him. He struggled. He wanted to be a better person. He wanted to be a good husband and a good father, even with all his flaws. I really appreciate that.

And the way Danny's 'friend' was done was one of the best plot twists in the story for me, not just because there was no ridiculous finger thing like in the movie.

[Kandice]

(view spoiler)[The book ends in fire, the movie ends in snow and ice. There is no better way to state the difference. I have always felt the novel was all about the love we feel for our family, most especially our chosen family (husband/wife) and the resulting offspring. I love Jack and later came to love Wendy.

All that being said, I can appreciate Kubrick's version as a completely separate and brilliant thing. It is simply NOT King's The Shining.

A little like Kubrick's version of A Clockwork Orange. Some scenes were word for word, but the feeling was NOT the same. (hide spoiler)]

[Ana]

Sorry, Seán. I did not realize I was writing spoilers, it felt pretty generic as I was typing. I am sorry if I spoiled your experience, I hate it when people do that to me.

Well put, Kandice.

What part are you all at now?

[Kandice]

I didn't make it very far yesterday, not oven to the three of them actually making it to the Overlook, but I seem to always forget how well King wrote this book! There is a sense of anticipation almost from page one! And the love he writes...beautifully!

[Kandice]

I finally got to the Overlook and Halloran just left.

I need to take a quick break because I have to reread The Great Gatsby for the umpteenth time for Book Club at the library on Wednesday night. Thank goodness it's short!

[Ana]

Halloran was definitely a cool character :)

[Kandice]

I love the idea of his being such a "Cool Cat" in the 70's and still being the cook (not chef) for all those ritzy people.

[Kandice]

One of the perfect things about Kubrick's The Shining was his casting choice for Halloran.

You certainly don't have to look, but in case you want to, here he is: https://www.google.com/search?q=dick+...

[Kandice]

One of the absolute worst things about it was his casting choice for Wendy! There seems to be no reason for it.

[Ana]

wow Sean already? no further comments?

[Kandice]

Ana wrote: "wow Sean already? no further comments?"

He's not finished yet, I don't think. He's saying he wont look at the cast until after he finishes the book.

[Ana]

Yes, that is what I was referring to, that he said he was halfway through ;)

It's nice when a book carries you away like that, huh? I was just wondering if there was anything particular you'd like to share on what you have read so far.

Oooh that room eheh. (view spoiler)[Probably the one to which the sequel Doctor Sleep makes reference. (hide spoiler)]

[Kandice]

I found these questions and now that you are finished Sean, and I am re-reading, I think we should answer them!

1. Which do you think is better, the Stanley Kubrick film version or the original novel? Why?
I love them both, but really feel they are two very separate stories. They have similarities of course, but the feeling of each is very, very different.

2. What does "shining" mean to you?
Clairvoyance, mind-reading, empathy to the umpteenth power, the ability to see the future, but not understand it or change it, communicating telepathically (to a degree) to others with the shine.

3. Is The Shining serious literature? Will it stand the test of time?
It has! It was written almost 4 decades ago and here we are reading it today. Because the real story is about love it will always be relevant.

4. How does Stephen King attempt to capture what it's like to be five, in the figure of Danny Torrance?
Children see the world differently. It's easy to say they see it in broader strokes or more simply, but that's not necessarily true. They see it differently and we forget that as we grow older. The fact that he is able to tap into a youthful psyche is one of his many, many charms and talents.

5. Is the novel ever funny? Does it have moments of comic relief? Does it make you cry? Is it depressing, hopeful, both?
There are very funny parts, but in life there always are. I have at different readings laughed out loud, cried, etc. This book is incredibly emotional depending at what stage of life you are.

6. Should The Shining be taught in the classroom? Why or why not? If so, what age groups would benefit?
No. I don't believe in censorship, and all three of my children are avid readers, but I can see some parents objecting and there are other books that could serve the purpose. I think this should be a book that people choose to read.

[Kandice]

I typed "The Shining Study Questions" in a search bar and copied the first set I got!

[Kandice]

I'm at Danny's appt. after the wasps. That doctor was an idiot! I'm on my nook and hate typing here but don't want to forget to comment about it later.

[Kandice]

I love the quote "This inhuman place makes human monsters". Pretty much sums it all up.

[Ana]

Great questions and answers, Kandice!
And yep, love that quote as well.

[Kandice]

I'm about halfway through. I haven't seen the movie in years, and yet I always pictured Danny and Halloran as the actors in Kubrick's version. NOT Jack and Wendy, but the other two I can't seem to shake.

That's a frustrating thing about novels adapted into movies.

[Kandice]

Seán wrote: "I still haven't watched the movie. I can't decide if I should or not."

If it's not because you don't have access to it, then by all means, WATCH! It's terrific, especially now that you have already read. I would love to discuss the differences here. It's brilliant on it's won, it's just NOT this book.

[Melaslithos]

We are moving (not far, just another appartment in the opposite tower, in the same residence). But I have spent the day packing, which means also that I have been finding long lost items. One of these is the boxset with all Kubrick's movies, including Clockwork Orange and The Shining. I know which movies I will be watching next ^^

[Kandice]

Kubrick is a genius! Weird, but a genius none the less. Happy viewing!

[Kandice]

I love how Danny has such a matter of fact idea in his head of what will happen if his parents decide he's crazy. Poor kid. You know kid's probably really think that way at his age. Especially since King is careful to have Danny remember how he used to think as opposed to now so we can see he is maturing, just at a real rate. Not all at once.

[Kandice]

The Shining
2001: A Space Odyssey
Full Metal Jacket
Eyes Wide Shut
Dr. Strangelove
Lolita
Spartacus
The Killing

There are more, but those spring to mind.

[Melaslithos]

You missed:
Barry Lindon
Killer's Kiss
Paths of Glory

The only two I saw are Barry Lindon and 2001: A Space Odyssey. I loved them.

I'll be looking forward to The Shining.

[Kandice]

I've never seen Barry Lindon (or heard of it!), but I've seen all the others. I've liked them all to a degree with the exception of Eyes Wide Shut. That one is fascinating, but in the way a bad accident is. NOT in an entertaining way. To me.

[Ana]

Kandice wrote: "I love how Danny has such a matter of fact idea in his head of what will happen if his parents decide he's crazy. Poor kid. You know kid's probably really think that way at his age. Especially sinc..."

Definitely.
And I completely agree about King capturing the mind of someone that young so well. I don't know if I would think that way when I was 5, but it sure feels genuine, if only because kids always tend to think bad things are their fault.

Lucky Melas! Hope you have fun. I have never watched Clockwork Orange, don't own the movie either.

[Kandice]

A Clockwork Orange is a very jarring movie (much like Eyes Wide Shut) and not for the faint of heart. With the book you can set it aside, and I guess you can press pause on a movie, but still...hard to take at times. McDowell is amazing, though, for one so young. Anyone, really.

[Ana]

I feel tempted... But I really need to cut expenses.

Séan, you should definitely watch the movie whenever you get the chance, as long as you view it as something completely separate from the novel.

[Kandice]

It'll wait. It has for so long already, but when you do watch it, let us know what you think.

[Kandice]

A few things I noticed this time around that I can't remember noticing before are:

At one point Jack says "You are what you eat..." in a menacing way. Is this where King got the kernel of an idea for Survivor Type?

Jack also says, in reference to Danny's scare in 217 "...just deserts." with only one "s". Was that on purpose? I looked in my hardback and paperback and it really is spelled that way.

Halloran is feeling his mortality very strongly and he says it's because he's over 60. In today's age that just isn't that old anymore. 60 is the new 40.

[Kandice]

One of my favorite ploys of King's is his knack for making the scenery just wrong enough to make us, the reader, uncomfortable. The perfect example is the clock Danny fins where the dancers come out on the hour and "kiss peepees". In someone's private quarters, as a joke, this would be barely acceptable for humors sake, but in the hotel setting it's just...wrong, off, however you want to phrase it.

There are so many instances and he inserts them so discreetly that they slowly build your discomfort. Genius.

[Kandice]

I like the recurring theme in King's book that those already damned (or whatever you want to call it) try to sell it to those on the fence. In It they say "We all float down here." and here they keep telling Jack what a party it is, etc. King may not be religious, but he certainly believes in the power of temptation!

[Kandice]

Even putting aside his hope for a fresh start, I'm at a point where all he wants is to succeed at something, anything.

The part where Wendy thinks they are really ruining this child and then goes on to lay some of the blame on their parents is just so sad! We are all who we are, in some part, because of our parents, and back and back and back like a funhouse mirror.

[Kandice]

19 stairs from the end of the corridor of their quarters to the lobby. 19! This is one of his early, early books and already that number. Boggles the mind.

[Kandice]

Seán wrote: "I still don't know what the whole 19 thing is about..."

In the DT series it is very, very significant and then in other works it becomes increasingly so as he wrote more of the DT series. I am just always surprised at how often it turns up in his stuff even before The Gunslinger was published. I shouldn't be, because he wrote the first installment when he was 22, but still...

It can be startling. I know many of his fans that have tattoos of 19 or something that means 19. Not me, though. ;)

[Ana]

Seán wrote: "I don't think I could ever get a tattoo. I don't like the idea of not being able to ever take it off!"

I fully agree.

[Kandice]

I don't like that or the idea of needles! Blech!

[Kandice]

My review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Maggie the Muskoka Library Mouse]

One of my favourite Stephen King novels. :) I read this book because I wanted to watch the movie, and thought I had better start with the original format. Am I ever glad I did! The book was a hundred times better than the film, and so much more frightening!