The Holy Bible: King James Version The Holy Bible discussion


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What if you actually lived out the ideas written in this book?

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David The purpose of this question isn't to argue the merits of Christianity or whether God is real or not. I do not intend to argue about specific issues ranging from corporal punishments to gay marriage. Rather, I want to focus on the lessons. Here are a few...

"Love the Lord your God...love your neighbor as yourself."

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

"Do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world..."

"Go and make disciples of all nations..."

"Carry each other's burdens..."

"Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus"

Obviously, there are many more. My question is what would it look like if we followed even just one of these commands to heart. And when I say "heart", I don't use that last word loosely. By heart, I mean your entire life is devoted to making that verse absolutely true. I mean that it defines you. I mean that if you fail at all other things, you can at least say that you were faithful in obeying that one verse.

Personally, I think if a person can follow one of these verse to heart, he/she can change the world. But I feel that most people, even many Christians, probably do not follow the commands written in the Bible as it was intended to be lived.

I am not talking about the Billy Grahams and Jim Elliot's of this world. I am talking about the every day people, me included who make too many comprises with our faith. We go to church and feel that that is enough. We are nice to our spouse and kids and feel that is enough. We don't lie, cheat, steal, or heavens sake murder and feel that is good enough. There is no real commitment or painful sacrifice in the way we live.

Think about it. If non-Christians viewed your life, would they leave with the impression that you lived your life for Jesus Christ, giving everything you had for Jesus or would they have a hard time telling the difference between you and non-Christians? Be honest. I would love to hear your thoughts and please forgive me if I came on too strong. I want to be straight up rather than beat around the bush so as to avoid any confusion about what I am asking.

Thanks.


Jeffery Lee Radatz If everyone lived out the ideas written in this book, there would be more slaughters, slavery, child killings, etc. In my opinion, after reading the bible, you will become an atheist. Please don't throw stones!! This is an open forum, correct! I can freely express my opinion. The bible is so full of contradictions, it is not funny!! For example, according to the bible, everyone should be stoned if anyone works on the sabbath. So, that would be a lot of killing just for that. Just one example!


Kristen Jeffery, the fact that you believe there are contradictions, shows you know nothing about the Bible. Just because there's something you don't understand, does not mean it does not make sense. It only means you are lacking in understanding.

On the issue of slavery and slaughters: There's a world of difference, of which you are apparently unaware, between instruction to do something and a history lesson.

Stoned for working on the Sabbath huh? Interesting. I guess you haven't read the part where Jesus 'works' on the Sabbath...


Jeffery Lee Radatz Kristen wrote: "Jeffery, the fact that you believe there are contradictions, shows you know nothing about the Bible. Just because there's something you don't understand, does not mean it does not make sense. It on..."

I understand the bible just fine. I was a Sunday School teacher for a looooong time. That means I had to study it and know it real well before teaching it to my students. I didn't just go up in front of the class and just say something. I, of course, had to be prepared. The part where you mentioned Jesus 'worked' on the Sabbath, that just means that he was contradicting himself(god), right? The bible should be taken literally, am I right?


Jane De vries I do not take Bible stories literally. I don't believe there was Adam and Eve and a talking snake. The meaning of the stories is symbolic. with the Creation, if we have the same parentage, then we are all interrelated and one big human family. that I do believe. The bible has to be studied because the meaning is hidden. I am Jewish and the jewish Bible is so complicated that I will never have to run out of things to study. More need for Goodreads!


message 6: by David (last edited Feb 17, 2014 09:24PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David I will not throw stones at Jeffery as he is free to express his opinions without condemnation.

Although, I admit that there are those kinds of stories in the Bible - about murder genocide, etc. I guess my retort would be that the Bible does not command us to do many of those things, but I am sure you can make an argument that is does and, in all honestly, I don't know if I can win a debate with you on it.

But I wanted to focus instead on the other lessons. The lessons that Christians and many non-Christians, including atheist would agree on. It's the lessons that I mentioned above.

For example, think about this verse.
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

Instead of arguing about doctrine, theology, whether babies should get baptized, etc. What would our world look like today if EVERY Christian made it their mission to "look after orphans and widows" and kept themselves from being polluted by the world?

Forget about how much tithes they should give every year or whether they should enroll their children into Sunday school.

I am saying forget about all that stuff. Instead, make it your goal in life to help orphans and widows and do not pollute yourself with worldly pleasures. I'm going to assume most of us here are not doing that so instead do a thought experiment where you imagine what the world would be like if EVERY SINGLE Christian decided that helping orphans and widows is all that he or she will do with his or her life. Think about that! That's all I ask.

Thanks.


Jeffery Lee Radatz I agree with David and 100% on what the bible DOES say on what real religion is--helping orphans and widows. If every Christian and non-Christian did thatI really do feel that all orphans and widows and widows would be taken care of.


Linda David wrote: "The purpose of this question isn't to argue the merits of Christianity or whether God is real or not. I do not intend to argue about specific issues ranging from corporal punishments to gay marriag..."

David, what a can of worms you have opened! First of all, almost no one has read or studied the entire Bible, which means you are asking informed questions of uninformed people. Yet, 99% have many opinions about something they have NO idea about. About 7-8 years ago I read a quote in Time mag. about Americans, "They are Biblically illiterate and Christ-haunted", wish I knew who said it. I know if we adopted even one of the principles you have brought forward, the world would benifit, unfortunately, we would rather argue. Sorry!


Linda And to Jeffery, NO having been a Sunday school teacher, does NOT mean you have any great knowledge of Scripture. It just means you could use the curriculum written for you. Sorry!


message 10: by Brad (new) - rated it 5 stars

Brad Lyerla The question posed at the outset is mis-stated, I contend. I understand David to be asking what would happen if we lived the principles of the Gospels? That, at least, is theoretically possible. Others have sensed that living the principles of the entire Bible is not possible because they contradict each other.

So what would happen if we lived the moral principles of the Gospels? I think at least five things would happen (and lots of other unintended consequences too):

1. We would not judge one another.

2. The rich would be pitied and counselled to give away their money.

3. There would be no violence, even in self-defense.

4. The sick would be tended.

5. The hungry would be fed.

Those are all nice things. But the supposition that everyone could abide is an impossibility.


message 11: by Jane (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jane De vries If the rich gave away their money, who could they help in the future?


Jeffery Lee Radatz It looks like I opened up a can of worms. Oooops. As a matter of fact, I have read the bible through TWICE! Which is why I am an atheist! :-) We did not have a cirriculum for us. We were told at Sunday school meetings that we should teach from the heart and make it simple to understand when you teach them. I was teaching lies to the children, because I wasn't believing it myself. Which is why I don't believe anymore.


message 13: by Kristin (last edited Feb 19, 2014 09:55AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kristin I think as human beings, Christian and non-Christian, the Bible has many lessons that should be applied toward all humanity. Loving each other, caring for each other, accepting the burdens of our brothers and sisters as our own. It is true that the Lord required very harsh penalties for seemlingly minor sins (even though there really should be no distinction because sin is sin in the eyes of God), but these were Old Testament requirements. When Jesus was sacrified on the cross, the veil between us and God was torn down and we now have a direct line to the Lord through accepting Jesus as our Savior. Unfortunately, because we live in a world of man, and man sins, we still have very atrocious acts being committed against our fellow human beings. I don't believe that God causes these horrible things to happen, man does. God allows certain things in order for us to strive to be like Jesus. There is no way to earn your way into heaven, the only thing you can do is accept Christ as your Savior, but we can try to be as much like him as is HUMANLY possible. Even though we fall very short. I am probably rambling, but this is just my opionion on the board.

I will end with a quote from Mother Teresa that I believe applies to all human kind, “People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway. What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.”


Astrid Yrigollen David wrote: "The purpose of this question isn't to argue "

Actually , even if people just "attempted" to live as Jehovah ( YHWH, JAH,God Almighty etc) and his son Jesus Christ recommend, it would be a better world. It is the effort that is most important, to strive to these higher ethics,morals and standards,these Godly standards. Humans influenced by Satan the Devil since the beginning of time have tried to "bring down" or lower" the righteous standards that were set before us in the bible.

Is the world any better now that everything is so permissive and most have a "anything goes"attitude?

The scriptures are there to help us live a better life. If you read 2 Timothy 3 ,1-5 it reads like the daily news:



2 Timothy 3:1-5


3 But know this, that in the last days+ critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;+ and from these turn away.


message 15: by Jane (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jane De vries Hasn't all that bad stuff happened over and over and is certainly happening now?


Donna Davis Which part of the book? I might have died in the flood. Noah and his wife made it, and everyone else washed away.


message 17: by Brad (new) - rated it 5 stars

Brad Lyerla Jane wrote: "If the rich gave away their money, who could they help in the future?"

I am not saying its a good idea. I am saying that's what the New Testament teaches that the rich should do.


message 18: by Jane (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jane De vries God is real for a lot of people. it is good that you have religion.


Edwin Mwintome Jeffery wrote: "If everyone lived out the ideas written in this book, there would be more slaughters, slavery, child killings, etc. In my opinion, after reading the bible, you will become an atheist. Please don'..."
Hmm, so let's just assume you're right and I'm not saying you're wrong because all those are written in the Bible. But nowadays, more people are non-believers than believers and those who say they're believers don't often live out the statutes written in the Bible, if you can tell me that the world is currently a better place now when obviously almost no one reads a Bible anyway, then I agree perfectly with what you just said.


Edwin Mwintome Well, have any of you thought that God was dealing with human beings at the time? Any of you tried to explain to a child the jugular theory or quantum physics and they'd understand? Even explaining why the sky is blue is a big hassle so you need to keep in mind that though God set laws, he was dealing with human beings? How many times did the jews complain to Moses, sometimes from the tone God used, you could see he was clearly fed up and decided to come to a compromise that'd make everyone happy i.e if your wife wrongs you, divorce her. Then again as a child grows they can understand more abstract and complex theories. You can't compare the jews of Moses' age to the Jews at the time of Jesus, there is a great gap in civilization and mankind's level of understanding, even now, we call people who dress in the style of the late nineties outdated.


Edwin Mwintome Kristen wrote: "Jeffery, the fact that you believe there are contradictions, shows you know nothing about the Bible. Just because there's something you don't understand, does not mean it does not make sense. It on..."
If you try to find contradictions in the Bible, you'll only end up contradicting yourself, besides, you're just broadcasting your ignorance of the Bible Jeff, it is to be taken literally but the literal meaning is not the only means of interpreting the Bible. The Bible is interpreted in four lights,
literal: surface meaning.
moral: do I really have to explain.
allegorical: with symbolisms and
anagogical: in light of eternity.
So you can't just argue about Luke Skywalker being the son of Anakin without watching the whole star wars series.


Edwin Mwintome You know, I don't think the problem is that there are contradictions in the Bible, i think the problem is we try to use the Bible to make ourselves look right. If the Bible affirms the things we want, it's good, if it criticizes them, it's bad. The Bible doesn't contradict even science from what I've seen but even with the faithful, sometimes we have to admit that we wish Jesus had just added one word to some of the things he said and we'd accept it perfectly.
The Bible is just too right and just too true for our own good is what most of us believe and if we're treating the Bible the way we're doing now, then I'm begging you all, scientists especially, stop trying to make contact with alien civilizations because you wouldn't even accept them if they revealed themselves to you. Even God whom we've heard of since time immemorial and have never seen, the word 'god' big or small G has echoed for as long as man has existed, yet we find trouble accepting even a name we're familiar with. What's the guarantee we'll accept something we're unfamiliar with?


Edwin Mwintome By the way, David, isn't it a bit too miraculous that one certain God, his chosen people and nation as well as his laws have existed till now even after many other religions faded away. Assyria has a new name now as does Babylon and many of the other great nations but Egypt retains its name as a testament to God's power and a symbol that can never be forgotten as does Israel which has existed so far back in time? I find it particularly amazing.

Another thing I find amazing is how every one can agree that a dragon is a very huge lizard-like creature that breathes fire, the word dragon originating from the greek word "dracon" which means serpent, we all have a common concept regarding the features of a dragon, yet almost no one believes in its existence.

Mankind is a pretty amazing creature for agreeing on specific features of certain things even in times when communication was difficult and at the same time, not believing in it.

I must also commend mankind for their belief that everything around them that seems to be in such perfect order came as a coincidence, it takes even more faith to believe in that than to believe that an intelligent force initiated all this.

Wow, five stars for mankind and thumbs up, we can only go so far when we deny our own origins.


Edwin Mwintome SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS?
What exactly are you searching for? A tooth or fingernail from God or some legendary excalibur or an equation? Do you even know the equation that writes your entire makeup to think of seeking proof scientific proof that God exists?
Science itself is proof of God's existence. Seeking anything else would be absurd. When we human beings are forging evidence in court, how much evidence don't you think Satan can forge to prove that God doesn't exist? God is a master scientist but that doesn't mean Satan isn't a scientist as well.


message 25: by Denise (last edited Feb 20, 2014 11:46AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Denise Being atheist, obviously I am not able to do most listed.

"Do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world..." is one of my personal views.

To me, nonconforming does not mean living a life isolated nor taking alternate routes just to be contrary. Nonconforming, for me, is about constantly asking questions and seeking answers. I am far from perfect in day to day application, however, I intend for the rest of my life to be this way.

If others do the same and end up dropping their cults, their hates, and their superstitions because of my example, that is good. If no one is influenced by me, I still lived my life and it is a good one.


Edwin Mwintome Denise wrote: "Being atheist, obviously I am not able to do most listed.

"Do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world..." is one of my personal views.

To me, nonconforming does not mean living a li..."


And that's the whole Christian point. It's about striving to be the best you can be. Becoming perfect in the sense of the word itself is unrealistic and isolating ourselves is not what Jesus preached either. he said go into the world and make disciples of the nations, you can't do, be or achieve anything in a world you isolate yourself from. you can't change anyone by isolating yourself from them and being Christian is not about changing people either as most people think. Saint Paul said; David please help me with the quote, "As you were when Christ called you, remain the same". It's not about changing people but helping them find their best selves. The best you is within you, our only job is to help you find it while finding it ourselves by learning from you.

About conforming and transforming, its a simple basic truth and very logical at that. You can change something by understanding it, but how can you change it if you copy it?
There are two kinds of people thus;
those who change the world by remaining themselves and improving and;
those that let the world change them and enslave them.


message 27: by Katherine (last edited Mar 03, 2014 12:05PM) (new) - added it

Katherine Hi, If you live the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount and the Lord's other parables and teachings, and also teachings of the prophets (who the Lord inspires when He is not on earth to teach us)....you get joy (many blessings from God inside and out), happiness (you will be effective and successful), comfort (as you read His word and pray...cry unto Him over everything you have and do always, and for others around you), security (as you help the poor, needy, sick and afflicted of all of God's children and creatures and creations, you will reap what you sow and gain a place at God's right hand), accomplishments (because you will have developed and used your talents in work and service to your fellowman which is the same as serving the Lord, for He atoned, suffered and died for all of us and wants us to succeed), prosperity (if you pay your tithing and offerings, the Lord will rebuke the devourer and you will have blessings beyond measure, both temporally and spiritually), and good relationships (the Lord taught us perfectly how to relate to others with love, charity, forgiveness and not judging....and a host of other qualities to develop good relationships...and who doesn't want to be around a Christlike person? The Lord is not a fussy perfectionist. It is almost irreverent to think so! That is a quality of an imperfect human. Christ is divine! True perfection comes from living what the Lord taught us and in no other way. Sometimes we get the wrong idea of what perfection really is! It is based on love! Enjoy life, seek to live His teachings...including loving Him, loving yourself and loving your neighbors! I just want to add that the only reason that this world is so sick and unhappy is because they do not listen to God and His son, Jesus Christ, but walk after their own Gods, whatever they may be. Natural law will catch up to us when we do not follow it. Another reason that people get unhappy is that the adversary, or Satan, is working triple overtime to make us so....in every way that he can because his days are numbered and it will not be long before the Savior comes again. That is why we need the help of our Father in Heaven and His son, Jesus Christ every day, every hour, every minute to guide and protect us. I am a Mormon and I know this is all true. Just remember one more thing. The most important ones that you need to please are yourself, your parents, your spiritual leader...such as your bishop or pastor, and God....and if God is for you (and He is)...who can be against you? Make sense? Have a good day! Your friend, Kathy


message 28: by Dodo (new) - rated it 2 stars

Dodo Jeffery wrote: "In my opinion, after reading the bible, you will become an atheist."

That`s about right, but not quite. Ecclesiates does make sense. Besides, you have to read other Holy Writs, as well, like Tora and Qu'ran and Vedas and more... Then you either become an atheist or irradiated and see atheist/believer doesn`t matter much. A heathen seems to be best, although not necessarily.
:D


Kristen wrote: "Jeffery, the fact that you believe there are contradictions, shows you know nothing about the Bible. Just because there's something you don't understand, does not mean it does not make sense."

With all due respect, Kristen, the fact that you believe there are no contradictions seems to indicate it might well be you that tends to believe instead of understand...


message 29: by Brad (new) - rated it 5 stars

Brad Lyerla Human beings emerged about 260,000 BCE, or earlier. Who did we pray to the first 250,000-plus years? Not the God of the Israelites. I am a catholic and I consider it important to my life. But we have no understanding of God. We grope and fail to find meaning in the Bible. The rules of the old testament and the new conflict. I think the rules from Jesus conflict with some of the rules from Paul, or are at least in tension. This is so far beyond our understanding that I don't really consider it appropriate for GoodReads or the internet. The best way to treat the Bible is as a religious text that is foundational to our western culture. Therefore, everyone should read it and know the stories. Beyond that, it is not possible to form a consensus. Agreement about what it means inevitably will be factionalized.


message 30: by Katherine (last edited Mar 03, 2014 12:14PM) (new) - added it

Katherine Dodo wrote: "Jeffery wrote: "In my opinion, after reading the bible, you will become an atheist."

That`s about right, but not quite. Ecclesiates does make sense. Besides, you have to read other Holy Writs, as ..."


Hi Jeffery, I just wanted to say that the Bible was not always translated correctly, but Joseph Smith (the first prophet of this dispensation) made clear those errors with corrections which he was able to translate in the same way that he translated the Book of Mormon....through inspiration with seer stones given to him by God. Almost all of the Bible is O.K., though, and our L.D.S. scriptures have parts which needed correction in them, with references at the bottom of each page of the Bible, as each place that needs correction is marked with a letter by the word in the verse of scripture, and the reference to each particular word or phrase is at the bottom of each page, with the translated part in another part of the book. We have a new set of scriptures with more references, I believe now too, though. Another thing that you must know about God is that he wants us to be pure and righteous, and that everything that he does is for our long term good in this life and in the next. We do not always understand his ways, but we know that he loves us and wants us to be happy, for we are his children. True happiness comes from being clean of sin and worldly ways....I know that because when I make mistakes, I am unhappy and I need to repent, but when I do good and think positive and have good thoughts, I am much happier. Lately these days, though, we are all tried triple-overtime because the old devil, or Satan, is on the loose and his days are numbered and he is working his hardest to deceive and take children of God with his flaxen cords until he has him in his chains forever. There is much unhappiness in the world today because Satan is trying his hardest to capture as many of God's children as he can. If you turn to the Lord, and trust him, he will lead you in the way that will bring you peace and love in your life. As you follow the Lord, things will get easier and easier in life, but it takes time to get to that point if you have not been following him so far. He has said, "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". Much of the unhappiness that we experience in life is from having to deal with people who make so many wrong decisions that affect so many others....and of course from Satan's trials and deceptions that come to us daily. One other thing that you should know is that when Noah tried to warn the people to repent and they would not, and the Lord sent rain down upon the earth...well, the people needed to go to the other side and be taught right from wrong, as they were in a path to destruction on this earth. One of our prophets was inspired to know that those people needed to have their temple work done, as all will on this earth and have their own opportunity to accept or reject it. That is another subject for you to know. Many on the earth will not know of the Gospel until the next life, so there are many missionaries in heaven. If you want love and peace and happiness in your life, then follow God and do his will, and he will lead to to a straight course to eternal bliss...and isn't that wonderful? There is more than one kingdom of heaven and there are many who will be in each of the three kingdoms, but to be in the highest, you must be clean and worthy to come there and have eternal families and spirit children one day as God does....sound impossible? It is not if you are baptized into the Lord's church, keep your covenants that you make at baptism and when you are old enough to go to the temple and make more covenants, and then keep those, you will be clean and sanctified by the Holy Spirit of God. We all make errors, so that is why we need daily repentance and to try and correct them as quickly as possible. The Lord made it possible for us to be free and clean from them on a daily basis! Of course, serious sins take longer to repent of...sometimes a very long time, and it is not an easy road, but it is available through the Lord who suffered all. Isn't that wonderful? In deity, there are three personages, God the Eternal Father of our spirits, his son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost who does not have a body, but can dwell in us and guide us and protect us....and they all work together for our welfare and good. Just know that you are loved no matter what, for God loves his children unconditionally, but still wants their happiness in life and cannot go against natural law which is eternal and unchanging. Know that I am a friend who wants to spread the good news about how much everyone is loved and cherished by our Father in Heaven, as again, we are his literal spirit children. Just remember, in the next life, we have forever to get where we want to be, but this life is a time of testing, of probation to see if we will serve God. There are an infinite number of good choices to make always. Lately we have been told by our leaders at church to try and think of ways to serve our neighbors who are all of those we come in contact with. Just be a good person, do good things and you will be serving God, and you will get great rewards in heaven and have many opportunities there. Have a good day!


Jeffery Lee Radatz Mormonism is not exactly a "Christian" religion. They have their own rules to live by also. PLease, do not attack me. I am not attacking you, I am criticizing the religions that say you must follow rules all the time. If god gave us a free will, yet we are to follow rules? Where is the free will in that? I am not going to serve any god that we have to follow rules or we go to a literal hell! Please!


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, if I loved God, then that pretty much throw all of my morals out the window, because that would requite me to be okay with his actions. And I'm not. The things he did simply aren't okay. They just aren't. If anyone else had done these things, they would be hunted down and killed. in fact, this has happened before. However, when God does the same things, it's somehow okay and billions of people love him. I don't. I can't love someone who is willing to destroy the world just because he has the power. However, I am more than willing to give thanks for when good things happen to me and others. . . . just not to God. Because almost always it was someone else who deserves thanks.


message 33: by Jen (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jen Geigle Johnson If we could all just master the two great commandments to love God and love our neighbor, wow, now that's a place I would like to be! Even if we all tried a little bit harder, the world would be a better place. If every person worked a little bit harder to forgive, to think before speaking, to be kind, to share, even just a little bit, wow, it would be a much better place. Share the love!!


message 34: by Som (new) - added it

Som It was more confusing than 'The Holy Qur'an'. Felt like I was reading a weirder version of this book The Fall Of America
(No offense intended)

I'd rather live a so-called 'great/ideal life' by reading some books by Nietzsche and some other philosophers.
Or simply this single one
(Consider it my recent 'Holy Book')
The Book of Disquiet


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