The Malazan Fallen discussion

93 views
Group Read - Dust of Dreams > DoD: Chapter Thirteen - No Spoilers

Comments Showing 1-26 of 26 (26 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new)

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Discuss Chapter 13 only. Please make liberal use of spoiler tags when discussing other books/series-wide implications.


message 2: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Silchas lets Rudd in on the nature of the threat that they are trying to thwart. Somebody is trying to open up the Gate of Starvald Demelain – to loose dragons on the world.

‘Starvald Demelain—but the gate was sealed!’
‘No seal is perfect. Will and desire gnaw like acid. Well. Hunger and ambition are perhaps more accurate descriptions of that which assails the gate.’


And someone (else?) is trying to let loose the Otataral dragon. Possibly to counter whatever comes out of Starvald Demelain? And Silchas thinks this is a good idea?

‘What do we seek in meeting this Korabas?’
Silchas slapped the ashes from his palms. ‘They will free her, and that we cannot stop. I mean to convince you that we should not even try.’


Perhaps Silchas mean to bargain with the Otataral Dragon? Or maybe Rudd is the only one powerful enough to stop it and Silchas needs Rudd on side?

Sandalath and Withal are trying to track down Nimander – they find the way the Shake left by and follow. Withal gets his horses head clawed off by a Forkrul Assail who is in turn pounded into goup by the three Nachts that have veered into their true demon forms.

Kalyth dreams of the the underworld of death where she encounters WhiskeyJack and some bridgeburners. The Bridgeburners are the new guardians of death. The human face of compassion replacing Hood’s indifference.

In all our guises, Destriant, we shall be more than the Reaper ever was. We are not distant. Not indifferent. You see, unlike Hood, we remember what it was to be alive...
...A Bridgeburner—such a strange name for soldiers, and yet... so perfect there in the chasm between the living and the dead.
Death’s guardians. Human faces in place of the Reaper’s shadowed skull. Oh, what a thought! What a relief!


Whickeyjack tells Kalyth that she will succeed in finding her Shield Anvil and Mortal Sword – he also offers to watch her back. An offer she takes up as an unknown enemy starts picking off her K’Chain party.

When Kalyth asks for help, she gets 14 undead Jaghut – Hood’s original army in his war against death. He betrayed them, himself becoming the face of death – and they weren’t too happy about how he used them in Chaining the crippled god the first time – and then when he used Dassem Ultor’s daughter the second time.
They make it plain that they would have refused Hood any request for help – but Whiskeyjack is a different story


‘Hood abused our goodwill,’ the swordswoman said, tusks gleaming with frost, ‘at the first chaining. He knew enough to face away from us at the next one.’ An iron-sheathed finger pointed at the Destriant. ‘Instead, he abused you, child of the Imass. And made of one (Dassem)his deadliest enemy. We yield him no sorrow.’

I’m interested to know what’s stalking Kalyth’s party. There’s a few new terms being used (Caste/Crown/Kep’rah weapons?)

We do. Tell me, how many pursue us? Tell me!’
A Caste. Fifty. Forty-nine now. Four wield Kep’rah, weapons of sorcery. A Crown commands them, they flow as one.


The K’chain drone in the nest finds the seven memories and it is able to see the ghost – who suddenly finds himself with a body – at least temporarily

straightening, it turned and faced the ghost, eyes fixing on his.
You can see me. The realization stunned him. And all at once he could feel something—my own body—and with it jarring pain in his hands, the ache of abuse. He could taste his own sweat, the acrid exhaustion of his muscles. And then it was gone.



message 3: by Silvio (new)

Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Dense chapter. My thanks to David for reviewing stuff about the Bridgeburner scene that I didn't take in on reading.

Silchas Ruin's memories of Draconus were informative. Also Sandalath's of Gallan. It now seems that the Shake's Tiste Andii connection involved an unhealthily nostalgic Andii wanderer. And there's a hint that Sandalath was his lover or otherwise well acquainted with him.

For simplicity, I'm guessing the Caste or whatever we're supposed to call it is the same as the giant traveling machine that's been massacring Barghast. I'll be waiting for more information.

Also, I'm dying to find out who the new wanderer is that Sheb and Nappet saw from the lookout in the K'Chain Che'Malle Rooted.


message 4: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new)

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
'Enough of that, Mallet,' snapped another horseman, one-armed, hunched with age. 'You don't even belong here yet. We're waiting for the world to catch up - such are dreams and visions -
they are indifferent to the ten thousand unerring steps in any given mortal's life, much less the millions of useless ones. Learn patience, healer.'

What does Dudek mean, "we're waiting for the world to catch up"?


message 5: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "What does Dudek mean, "we're waiting for the world to catch up"? "

That's a good pick up Lee - I think that means that the Assassin's attack on K'rul's bar in TTH hasn't happened yet - which also means Hood hasn't gone into Dragnipur as yet and the Sword hasn't been broken yet - I think. So this is a dream of the future Bridgeburners - who have come to offer aid from the future? Gahhhh! Where's Mpauli's vacuum cleaner!


message 6: by Rob, Quick Ben (new)

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
It was nice seeing some of the BridgeBurners again here. I don't know if it's this chapter's fault or what but I kept dozing off while reading it.

I agree with Silvio that it was a dense one.

David Sven wrote: "I’m interested to know what’s stalking Kalyth’s party. "

That's my big take away from this chapter. Here we are thinking the FA are all big and bad, and something is just squashing them like bugs.

Lee wrote: "What does Dudek mean, "we're waiting for the world to catch up"? "

I was wondering the same thing. I kind of assumed it's something along the lines as David's theory, but I'm not sure the point of it.

Why is Mallet in the scene if he hasn't died yet? I would think there has to be an important reason. Otherwise why not just have him show up with them later?


message 7: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Rob wrote: "Why is Mallet in the scene if he hasn't died yet? "

I'm thinking it's to deliberately let us know Dragnipur hasn't been broken yet? So maybe he's setting up for the fallout when it does happen.


message 8: by Rob, Quick Ben (new)

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
If that's true, it just highlights some of the things that frustrate me about his writing.


message 9: by Silvio (new)

Silvio Curtis | 403 comments Lee wrote: "'Enough of that, Mallet,' snapped another horseman, one-armed, hunched with age. 'You don't even belong here yet. We're waiting for the world to catch up - such are dreams and visions -
they are in..."


Very good question. I don't really like inferring that these Bridgeburners are from the future on such slender evidence, but David's idea still seems like the best we've got. It would help if we knew what "here" meant. The paragraphs immediately preceding at least seem to date us securely before Hood's death.


message 10: by Carol-anne (last edited Feb 11, 2014 05:57PM) (new)

Carol-anne | 17 comments Also, I'm dying to find out who the new wanderer is that Sheb and Nappet saw from the lookout in the K'Chain Che'Malle Rooted.

Oh, I thought they had said that just to get Sheb and Nappet's attention somewhere until the drone left the room?
Otherwise, who could that be, out there in the wastelands? Ublala Pung?

I find it very interesting to learn more about Kalyth and the K'Chain Che'malle... I am very hooked to that storyline now :)


message 11: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new)

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
I think Ubala is only just leaving where he is now. So I don' think that it will be him.


message 12: by Rob, Quick Ben (new)

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Kind of late in the game to be asking this, but I need to make sure I have them straight.

Withal is the blacksmith who was forced to forge the sword for the CG that Rhuland carried right?

And Sandalath is a Tiste Andii who fought in the ancient battle where the Tiste Edur betrayed the Andii, but was somehow trapped/brought back and ended up on the island where Withal was stuck with the CG, right?

I don't really understand/remember them getting married, but they have been so since we seem them meet the Bonehunters a few books ago right?

Too many characters to keep straight, especially when they are ones whose parts of the book mostly bore me...


message 13: by Lori (new)

Lori You got it right, Rob. I don't remember them getting married either, but it's clear they are together.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the very ending, was that Icarium remembering a wife betraying him and going berserk?


message 14: by Linette (new)

Linette | 152 comments I wondered about that, Lori - but thought, maybe it isn't Icarium after all? Very interesting, if it is Icarium. And I think it is.


message 15: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "I'm surprised no one has mentioned the very ending, was that Icarium remembering a wife betraying him and going berserk? "

I think that was Rautos memory. Though, it begs the question, are Icarium's memories mixed in their with them?


message 16: by Linette (new)

Linette | 152 comments I think you're right David, it was Rautos's memory. Makes more sense now.
But I guess Icarium must have had some kind of life, before the amnesiac berserker time machinery building life he leads now.


message 17: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Rob wrote: "I don't really understand/remember them getting married,"

I think it was implied that the CG did the honours. Which just involved the CG saying - here's your wife Withal - and they went with it. Though I wonder if it was just another way for the CG to inflict more suffering on Withal - they don't seem to be getting on that well at the moment


message 18: by Silvio (last edited Feb 12, 2014 01:19PM) (new)

Silvio Curtis | 403 comments There are two long reminiscences of mass murder in this chapter. Are they unrelated? I confused them on reading but on re-checking I think the first one is Icarium-question-mark and the second one is Rautos.

I was thinking the Rooted was in some kind of dreamworld or one of Icarium's new warrens, so I was only expecting dead people to show up. But maybe that's too much to assume.


message 19: by Lori (new)

Lori Ok yeah the last is Rautos but the one on the previous page seems to be the ghost. Icarium had a wife?


message 20: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Ok yeah the last is Rautos but the one on the previous page seems to be the ghost. Icarium had a wife?"

Well, I guess there must be some reason he's known as Lifestealer


message 21: by Sumant (new)

Sumant Silchas lets Rudd in on the nature of the threat that they are trying to thwart. Somebody is trying to open up the Gate of Starvald Demelain – to loose dragons on the world.

Weren't silchas and co traveling through starvald demelain where they found all the dead dragons in RG?.

I'm thinking it's to deliberately let us know Dragnipur hasn't been broken yet? So maybe he's setting up for the fallout when it does happen.

Ya this got me confused too because mallet got killed in TTH then how come he is with bridge burners also is he some kind of seer like kruppe so that he meets his old pals.

I wondered about that, Lori - but thought, maybe it isn't Icarium after all

The kalse rooted story line is very much confusing and it is really hard to make out who is who and what exactly are their intentions.


message 22: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Feb 12, 2014 09:20PM) (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Sumant wrote: "Weren't silchas and co traveling through starvald demelain where they found all the dead dragons in RG?"

Menandore had access to Starvald Demelain and was able to open a way in - Earlier in RG Shadowthrone had bargained with Menandore for a one time use of the gate - specifically to grant Silchas and co access, reading between the lines.
So Clip was able to use the portable Gate to get into Kurald Galain - inside Kurald Galain there was a Gate that exited into Demelain - (remember that Menadore was Shadowing Udinaas the whole time) and from there there was a gate into the Refugium.


message 23: by Duffy (new)

Duffy Pratt | 354 comments I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that the Bridgeburners are from the future. That means that a Whiskeyjack from the future orders the Jaghut to do stuff before he actually comes to power in the realm of death. Why couldn't he just order the Jaghut to get in between Kallor and Silverfox, and spare himself his own death? Time travel always makes my brain hurt.

And the timeline of these books is screwy enough as it is. But I can't think of another explanation for the comment that Mallet is not even supposed to be here, yet. For me, I wasn't thinking too much on the timeline issue when I read that. I was more happy that Mallet had ascended along with the other Bridgeburners.


message 24: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Perhaps a better explanation may be that only Mallet is there from the future - otherwise he would be no more out of his time than the other Bridgeburners present


message 25: by Duffy (new)

Duffy Pratt | 354 comments Maybe so, but the natural assumption is that Mallet would ascend and join his fellows at his death. That happened before the fall of Hood. So it's still a little puzzling.


message 26: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new)

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Reading the passage again the bridgeburners do seem to be deliberately out of sync with Kalyth's current time - which Whiskeyjack loosely suggests happens in visions - remembering this is Kalyth's dream.

the passage begins

Kalyth dreamed she was in a place she had not yet reached.

ie the future

‘You don’t even belong here yet. We’re waiting for the world to catch up—such are dreams and visions—

and then reinforcing that this is the future

We’re Bridgeburners, and we’ve been posted to Hood’s Gate—one last posting—’
‘When did we agree to that?’ Mallet demanded, eyes wide.
‘It’s coming.


I don't think this is a case so much of time travel - but rather that there is some time slippage between the dreamworld and the actual world. Not that it makes it any more logical or coherent than time travel - but then again, this is fantasy - and probably where time travel belongs (as opposed to scifi) - maybe


back to top