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Common reads > July and or August?

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message 1: by Steven (new)

Steven Harbin (stevenharbin) | 86 comments Mod
Was anyone interested in a group read for July and / or August ?

message 2: by Werner (new)

Werner The big agenda item on my reading list for July is Twilight. (My oldest daughter gave me a copy for Father's Day; she's anxious for me to read it, and I'm eager to oblige. :-)) But I might be free to read something else in August, depending on what you all pick. Two books I've been meaning to read are Bram Stoker's The Lady of the Shroud and ERB's The Return of Tarzan. (That last one is the first sequel to the original Tarzan novel, and is the one where Burroughs introduces high priestess La, according to Wikipedia.) Would there be any sentiment in favor of trying one of those?

message 3: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
The Return of Tarzan sounds interesting.

message 4: by Steven (new)

Steven Harbin (stevenharbin) | 86 comments Mod
I could go for either one. I have a copy of TROT, I could get a copy of TLOTS pretty easily it looks like.

message 5: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Im up for Stoker of those two. I havent read Tarzan, only A Princess of Mars by ERB so far.

Im up for anything really to be able participate in group read. I hope we choose well before so i can get the books. Old english stuff takes time to find if its not Dracula or Frankentien or something.

message 6: by Werner (new)

Werner For what it's worth, it occurred to me that the most recent common reads in this group and the Supernatural Fiction group drew the weakest response of any we've had so far; and they both took place in the summer. Is it possible that summer isn't the best time to get people to participate, and we'd be better off if we did this in September? (Of course, if we do that, it'll conflict with the next common read in the latter group; and I really should take part in that one, since I'm the lone moderator there.)

message 7: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 02, 2009 05:10AM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Personally i have more time to read in the summer so it depends on if there are other members like me who want a common read in this summer.

message 8: by Steven (new)

Steven Harbin (stevenharbin) | 86 comments Mod
I usually have more time to read in the summer, but it seems that a lot of people don't. I know my local fiction book club at a store here in Georgia that I frequent seems to have less participation during the summer months.
I'm ok with holding off till September if there's not much interest for a major group read at the moment. In the meantime I'm willing to start an informal thread for Burroughs reads in general (ditto Stoker) for Mohammed and anyone else who is interested. Mohammed, you want to suggest a book for either?
Happy Fourth of July to all, by the way :)

message 9: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 04, 2009 02:58PM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Norhwest Smith planet stories by CL. Moore ?

Also i have heard great things bout this I Am a Barbarian by Burroughs. Set in Ancient Rome about a briton slave.

message 10: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
I just got The Black Lizard Big Book of Pulps The Best Crime Stories from the Pulps During Their Golden Age--The '20s, '30s & '40s. It is HUGE, about 1100 pages! Best of all, I got it through a book swapping site, so it cost me the postage to send a book to someone else - $2.50 or so.

Now I have to find time to read it.

From Barnes & Nobel:
Weighing in at over a thousand pages, containing over forty-seven stories and two novels, this book is big baby, bigger and more powerful than a freight train—a bullet couldn’t pass through it. Here are the best stories and every major writer who ever appeared in celebrated Pulps like Black Mask, Dime Detective, Detective Fiction Weekly, and more. These are the classic tales that created the genre and gave birth to hard-hitting detectives who smoke criminals like packs of cigarettes; sultry dames whose looks are as lethal as a dagger to the chest; and gin-soaked hideouts where conversations are just preludes to murder. This is crime fiction at its gritty best.


• Three stories by Raymond Chandler, Cornell Woolrich, Erle Stanley Gardner, and Dashiell Hammett.
• Complete novels from Carroll John Daly, the man who invented the hard-boiled detective, and Fredrick Nebel,
one of the masters of the form.
• A never before published Dashiell Hammett story.
• Every other major pulp writer of the time, including Paul Cain, Steve Fisher, James M. Cain, Horace McCoy, and many
many more of whom you’ve probably never heard.
• Three deadly sections–The Crimefighters, The Villains, and Dames–with three unstoppable introductions by Harlan Coben,
Harlan Ellison, and Laura Lippman

message 11: by Werner (new)

Werner Re some of the earlier comments, I'm not opposed to a group read in August, if that's what we decide on. For me personally, that time frame would actually work better than September (at least, based on what I know at this point :-)).

message 12: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 05, 2009 10:51AM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Augustie is good to me because in september i will be in Ethopia visiting my somali relatives.

Werner it would be fun if we were atleast 3 readers for the group read.

Jim :

That book looks great to i will get it very soon. Im a big fan of Hammett and those eras. Want to try many of the other early Noir writers.

message 13: by Werner (last edited Jul 05, 2009 04:28PM) (new)

Werner It sounds like it won't be hard to have at least three. Moore's Northwest of Earth collection has been on my to-read shelf for awhile, too, so I'd be game to join in a reading of that one also.

message 14: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 05, 2009 05:08PM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments I have ordered Northwest of Earth a week ten days ago and should get it in a 5 days or so.

message 15: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
I wanted to let you all know what the contents of "Black Lizard Big Book of Pulps" were but couldn't find it on any of the regular book sale sites. I found it & a bunch of others here:

I hope this helps if you're thinking about getting an anthology. I hate it when i get an anthology only to find I have most, if not all, the stories in other books.

Here is what the above has for this one. Hope it's readable.

Black Lizard Big Book of Pulps ed. Otto Penzler (Vintage Crime/Black Lizard 978-0-307-28048-0, Nov 2007, $25.00, 1150pp, tp, cover by Rafael de Soto) Omnibus edition of Pulp Fiction: The Crimefighters (Quercus 2006), Pulp Fiction: The Villains (Quercus 2007), and Pulp Fiction: The Dames, to be published by Quercus in 2008.

* xi · Foreword · Otto Penzler · fw
* · The Crimefighters
* 3 · Introduction · Harlan Coben · in
* 4 · One, Two, Three · Paul Cain · ss Black Mask May ’33
* 15 · Creeping Siamese [The Continental Op:] · Dashiell Hammett · ss The Black Mask Mar ’26
* 25 · Honest Money [Ken Corning:] · Erle Stanley Gardner · nv Black Mask Nov ’32
* 44 · Frost Rides Alone · Horace McCoy · nv Black Mask Mar ’30
* 64 · Double Check · Thomas Walsh · nv Black Mask Jul ’33
* 78 · Stag Party [McFee:] · Charles G. Booth · na Black Mask Nov ’33
* 111 · The City of Hell! · Leslie T. White · nv Black Mask Oct ’35
* 133 · Red Wind [John Dalmas:] · Raymond Chandler · na Dime Detective Magazine Jan ’38
* 161 · Wise Guy · Frederick Nebel · nv Black Mask Apr ’30
* 185 · Murder Picture [Jack “Flashgun” Casey:] · George Harmon Coxe · nv Black Mask Jan ’35
* 210 · The Price of a Dime · Norbert Davis · ss Black Mask Apr ’34
* 220 · Chicago Confetti · William Rollins, Jr. · nv Black Mask Mar ’32
* 237 · Two Murders, One Crime [“Three Kills for One”:] · Cornell Woolrich · nv Black Mask Jul ’42
* 259 · The Third Murderer [“The Flame and Race Williams”; Race Williams:] · Carroll John Daly · n. Black Mask Jun ’31 (+2)
* · The Villains
* 377 · Introduction · Harlan Ellison · in
* 380 · The Cat-Woman [Ed Jenkins:] · Erle Stanley Gardner · na The Black Mask Feb ’27
* 406 · Dilemma of the Dead Lady · Cornell Woolrich · nv Detective Fiction Weekly Jul 4 ’36
* 426 · The House of Kaa [The Cobra:] · Richard B. Sale · ss Ten Detective Aces Feb ’34
* 436 · The Invisible Millionaire [Simon Templar:] · Leslie Charteris · nv Black Mask Jun ’38
* 471 · You’ll Always Remember Me · Steve Fisher · ss Black Mask Mar ’38
* 484 · Faith · Dashiell Hammett · ss
* 491 · Pastorale · James M. Cain · ss The American Mercury Mar ’28
* 497 · The Sad Serbian · Frank Gruber · ss Black Mask Mar ’39
* 512 · Finger Man [Ted Carmady:] · Raymond Chandler · na Black Mask Oct ’34
* 541 · The Monkey Murder [Lester Leith:] · Erle Stanley Gardner · nv Street & Smith’s Detective Story Magazine Jan ’39
* 571 · About Kid Deth · Raoul F. Whitfield · nv Black Mask Feb ’31
* 595 · The Sinister Sphere [Steve Thatcher (“Moon Man”):] · Frederick C. Davis · nv Ten Detective Aces May/Jun ’33
* 615 · Pigeon Blood · Paul Cain · nv Black Mask Nov ’33
* 629 · The Perfect Crime · C. S. Montanye · ss The Black Mask Jul ’20
* 636 · You’ll Die Laughing · Norbert Davis · nv Black Mask Sep ’40
* 656 · The Crimes of Richmond City:
* 657 · i) Raw Law [Richmond City:] · Frederick L. Nebel · nv Black Mask Sep ’28
* 680 · ii) Dog Eat Dog [Richmond City:] · Frederick L. Nebel · nv Black Mask Oct ’28
* 702 · The iii) Law Laughs Last [Richmond City:] · Frederick L. Nebel · nv Black Mask Nov ’28
* 723 · iv) Law Without Law [Richmond City:] · Frederick L. Nebel · nv Black Mask Apr ’29
* 742 · v) Graft [Richmond City:] · Frederick L. Nebel · nv Black Mask May ’29
* · The Dames
* 767 · Introduction · Laura Lippman · in
* 769 · Angel Face [“Face Work”; Nick Burns:] · Cornell Woolrich · nv Black Mask Oct ’37
* 785 · Chosen to Die · Leslie T. White · nv Dime Detective Magazine Dec 1 ’34
* 807 · A Pinch of Snuff · Eric Taylor · ss Black Mask Jun ’29
* 819 · Killer in the Rain · Raymond Chandler · nv Black Mask Jan ’35
* Sally the Sleuth:
___ 844 · Matinee Murder · Adolphe Barreaux · cs Spicy Detective Stories Feb ’37
___ 847 · Hawaiian Spy Hunt · Adolphe Barreaux · cs Spicy Detective Stories Apr ’41
* 851 · A Shock for the Countess · C. S. Montanye · ss The Black Mask Mar 15 ’23
* 859 · Snowbound · C. B. Yorke · nv Gangster Stories Oct ’31
* 881 · The Girl Who Knew Too Much · Randolph Barr · ss Spicy Detective Stories Apr ’41
* 889 · The Corpse in the Crystal · D. B. McCandless · ss Detective Fiction Weekly Jan 30 ’37
* 903 · He Got What He Asked For · D. B. McCandless · ss Detective Fiction Weekly Jan 16 ’37
* 917 · Gangster’s Brand · P. T. Luman · ss Gun Molls Magazine Aug ’31
* 933 · Dance Macabre · Robert Reeves · nv Black Mask Apr ’41
* 953 · The Girl with the Silver Eyes [The Continental Op:] · Dashiell Hammett · nv The Black Mask Jun ’24
* 978 · The Jane from Hell’s Kitchen · Perry Paul · nv Gun Molls Magazine Oct ’30
* 998 · The Duchess Pulls a Fast One [Katie Blayne, the Duchess:] · Whitman Chambers · ss Detective Fiction Weekly Sep 19 ’36
* 1009 · Mansion of Death · Roger Torrey · ss Detective Fiction Weekly May 25 ’40
* 1019 · Concealed Weapon · Roger Torrey · ss Black Mask Dec ’38
* 1035 · The Devil’s Bookkeeper · Carlos Martinez · ss Gun Molls Magazine Aug ’31
* 1045 · Black Legion [The Domino Lady:] · Lars Anderson · ss Saucy Romantic Adventures Oct ’36
* 1058 · Three Wise Men of Babylon [Daffy Dill:] · Richard Sale · ss Detective Fiction Weekly Apr 1 ’39
* 1070 · The Adventure of the Voodoo Moon · Eugene Thomas · nv Detective Fiction Weekly Feb 1 ’36
* 1089 · Brother Murder · T. T. Flynn · nv Detective Fiction Weekly Dec 2 ’39
* 1119 · Kindly Omit Flowers · Stewart Sterling · nv Black Mask Mar ’42
* 1143 · Contributors Notes · Misc. · bg
* 1145 · Permissions Acknowledgments · Misc. · ms

message 16: by Werner (new)

Werner Well, did we ever come to a consensus about an August group read? If so, what consensus did we come to? If we go that route, I should finish up Twilight by the end of the month or before, so could be ready for a common read in this group in that time frame.

For what it's worth, I just got a copy of The Return of Tarzan from BookMooch today. That was apparently the only one they had, though.

message 17: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
I'm up for reading the Tarzan book. Has everyone read the first? The 'Return' is the 2d of the series & if folks think they know the first from the movies, they really don't.

message 18: by Werner (last edited Jul 26, 2009 05:24AM) (new)

Werner That's a very good point, Jim --most people like to read series in order, and that's usually the way the authors intend for them to be read, too. I've read the first book (and remember it well enough to discuss it), but if anyone else who wants to take part in the common read hasn't, then the first book really would be a more appropriate choice than the second one.

message 19: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Hard for me to be involved in a group read of second Tarzan book when i havent read the first.

I can get Tarzan books from bookmooch.

message 20: by Steven (last edited Jul 26, 2009 09:41AM) (new)

Steven Harbin (stevenharbin) | 86 comments Mod
I've read the first, but wouldn't mind reading again (it's been years) plus it's pretty easy to get / find a library or cheap copy. How does everyone feel about Tarzan of the Apes?

message 21: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Im up to it, dont mind trying Tarzan. Not big on the character,stereotype but i enjoyed John Carter first book.

message 22: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
Getting "Tarzan of the Apes" (first book) or "The Return of Tarzan" is not tough. They're free on Project Gutenberg (http://gutenberg.org) For your convenience:
Tarzan of the Apes: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/78
Return of Tarzan: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/81

If you go to the home page of Gutenberg & search on Burroughs for the author & Tarzan for the title, you'll find several other books in the series as well as links to audio books & such. I think Libervox has the free audio books, but they're linked through here.

I have either Ace or Ballentine paperbacks from the 60's. Still readable.

message 23: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments So do we choose Tarzan of the Apes ?

I dont ever read books on the computer in places like Gutenberg, only the real thing work for me.

But doesnt matter i can get that Tarzan book easily.

message 24: by Mohammed (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments OBS i didnt see it was already choosen as this months group read hehe.

message 25: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
Mohammed wrote: "...I dont ever read books on the computer in places like Gutenberg, only the real thing work for me..."

Maybe some day, if I have something like the Sony E-reader, I'll be more into reading books from text files, but I have to agree that I don't like them much, either. I do have quite a collection, but I use them more for ease of looking up particular passages or previewing a book to see if I should get it. I've only read one novel on the PC & it was a drag.

message 26: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 27, 2009 06:47AM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments Looking up a passage i can understand but i agree about reading a novel on PC. I tried several times and i couldnt.

About Tarzan of the apes i was so lucky, there is only 1 copy in english in the library and i just got that version.

message 27: by Simon (new)

Simon (friedegg) Goodluck with "Tarzan" Mohammed, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Don't worry, Tarzan is about as far from the stereo type as Conan is.

message 28: by Mohammed (last edited Jul 28, 2009 06:11AM) (new)

Mohammed  Burhan Abdi Osman (mohammedaosman) | 70 comments I dont worry about Tarzan from the movies sterotype.

I dont want to react like one of my fav authors who happen to be african descent reacted to ERB africa.

If its more like how REH deals with those issues than im perfectly fine.

message 29: by Adam (new)

Adam | 70 comments Mohammed, I found Tarzan of the Apes an incredibly racist book, full of ridiculous Anglophilia and a lot of uncomfortable symbolism, such as a hero (Tarzan) who kills primitive African tribesmen by hanging them.

That's my opinion.

message 30: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
The tribesmen were enemies. Tarzan used his lasso to kill leopards & other stuff too. I'm not saying there weren't racist attitudes, but I think you're working too hard on that point. Like many of the older writings, you'll also find labels in use that aren't appreciated today, but were common usage then. You need to take that kind of thing in context.

He had them in lots of colors; clear, green, yellow, red, black & white. He'd generally assign them some sort of racial profile. Warlike greens, religious/nasty whites, noble or villanous yellow & so on. Quickly drawn, like he did with so many of his lost races, making them stagnant, with super magic/science & degenerate.

Burroughs rarely had a black that wasn't brutish or evil in the Tarzan books as I recall, so if that sort of thing offends you, don't read him. In his Barsoom series, his race of blacks were top dogs, so I don't think it was prejudice on his part as much as writing to fit his reader's prejudices & fears.

message 31: by Adam (new)

Adam | 70 comments I don't think I'm "working" too hard on the point, it's just something in the book that left a bad taste in my mouth, given when the book was written (at a time in the United States when lynchings were still commonplace).

As I said, it's my opinion. Put another way, it's the overall impression I was left with after reading the book.

Also, it probably sounds as if I hated the book, which I didn't. I liked aspects of it enough to read The Return of Tarzan, which I liked about as much. They were both enjoyable, but not enough to make me really want to keep reading the series.

I've never read the Barsoom series, but all the differently colored races that you're talking are technically Martians, aren't they? The Tarzan series takes place in the real (albeit somewhat fantastical) world, so that could be why it was harder for me to accept.

message 32: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
'Martians' is technically correct. They did lay eggs instead of giving live birth, but John Carter was much in demand & did manage to have a son with Dejah Thoris, a Red woman. Red, white, yellow, black & clear were all 'human'. Green Martians were the most different having 6 limbs & the clear one was from Jupiter or Saturn. Can't recall which.

Many of the green martians were portrayed very much the way he portrays blacks in Tarzan. Both societies were were barbaric, stupid & amoral as compared to the cultured, civilized, intelligent societies. This is why I don't think Tarzan hanging blacks is racist. He used what was available.

Burroughs made quite a point that all the people were the same, but often their attitudes were set by their societies & some were just nasty villains. All races had good & bad in them. He made friends with the best & bravest in all the societies & was acclaimed 'Warlord of Mars' at the end of the third book.

John Carter was, like Tarzan, the epitome of civilization according to ERB. He was American, male, white & intelligent. I don't recall a hero of his that wasn't, off hand. Women could be strong & brave, but he never had a book that revolved around a heroine. Women are always in a secondary role, getting saved. Non-Americans, including white ones, are often stereotyped (cheating Russians, for instance) & never have the morals of the Americans. This is considered racist & sexist literature today, but he was writing to make a living & those were common attitudes of his readers. I don't recall any place where he killed because of race - only society or personally.

That's why I disagree with the lasso bit being racist. The local tribe had killed his 'mother', I believe. Mother killers deserve capital punishment. While hanging was used on blacks illegally, it was one of the standard methods of capital punishment back then too. I think it was legal until the 1980's sometime in some states. I vaguely recall one adjoining MD was one of the last hold outs. WV maybe? I don't recall.

message 33: by Adam (new)

Adam | 70 comments I don't think Tarzan is American. He's the son of Lord and Lady Greystoke, who were both British. Although, I suppose, he was raised by apes in Africa. But I got the feeling from the first couple of books that Tarzan was meant to be seen as a British nobleman raised in unique, uncivilized circumstances. Did Tarzan become an American in the later books?

message 34: by Jim, Co-moderator (new)

Jim (jimmaclachlan) | 234 comments Mod
I'm going to answer this in the Tarzan topic that Werner set up, Adam.

message 35: by John (new)

John Karr (karr) | 62 comments Jim wrote: "'Martians' is technically correct. They did lay eggs instead of giving live birth, but John Carter was much in demand & did manage to have a son with Dejah Thoris, a Red woman. Red, white, yellow..."

Ah Barsoom! I miss it. I enjoyed John Carter a bit more than Tarzan because so much of it was set on Mars, and another planet -- identifiable in the night sky -- is often more interesting than our own.

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