The Flamethrowers - Chapters 3-12 (January 2014)

[Casceil]

This thread is for discussion of chapters 3-12. It's hard to create discussion threads for this book because I am reading a Kindle version with no page numbers. Going off notes I took while reading, in this section Reno gets settled in New York, begins to make friends, and begins dating Sandro. On their first date, they see a man apparently drowning, and Sandro jumps in and saves him. As the ambulance takes the victim away, Reno realizes that the man really wanted to drown, and wonders whether they really did him a favor or not by saving him. Does the Flamethrowers have an underlying theme about the value of life?

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "...Does the Flamethrowers have an underlying theme about the value of life? ..."

If it does, I wouldn't know how to succinctly express it, Casceil. Perhaps Kushner more explores what might give value than attempts to define it or give it a theme? Unless, maybe, having experiences?

(I finished the book tonight -- I am mystified at the moment as to how to discuss it. Am looking forward to what others will say. I am curious about the background and experiences that allowed R.K. to write it (and Telex ) -- but perhaps that discussion should go over on the thread that permits spoilers.)

[Casceil]

The Paris Review interview cited on the background thread provides interesting information oh the author's experiences that went into the book.

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "The Paris Review interview cited on the background thread provides interesting information oh the author's experiences that went into the book."

Yes, it does -- in fact, I went back and re-read it. But I still felt as if the books convey some things deeper and broader than what the Paris Review interview suggests. (view spoiler)[ For example, knowledge of the Brazilian rubber industry. Or of Italian anarchy. Or even of racing on the Salt Flats. One of the questions I placed to myself was what has RK told me about the Brazilian rubber industry that I wouldn't find in a good National Geographic article? Haven't really answered myself, but my sense was RK's has more -- but that is probably based on her treatment of industries in Telex from Cuba as much as on TF. (hide spoiler)]

[Daniel]

That's bang-on, Lily. There's an incredible depth to the novel which has to be experienced in the moment to be appreciated.

I'm also finding myself at a bit of a loss in how to comment on my reading experience. It's not a book where plot or characterization really matter at all; the emphasis is rather on ephemera and the loose tangles of thematic threads. It's the loose association between land art and land speed records, motion pictures and the motion of vehicles, or risking life and limb in pursuit of racing thrills and getting shot at by Nina Simone. Everything is emphatically linked, but I'm hard-pressed to explain why I feel that way.

[Casceil]

Daniel, I think you have put your finger on something. The book is more about what it was like to be in a particular place at a particular time than it is about plot or characterization. The book captures the feel of the times, for a collection of times and places.

[Ellen]

I'm finding my reading speed discouragingly slow even though I love the book. There is just so much information! And I find myself looking up Information all the time.

[Casceil]

It's OK, Ellie. This is not necessarily a book to race through. If you find anything interesting while looking up information, please share.

[Daniel]

I'll second Casceil, Ellie. And please don't feel discouraged when it seems so obvious that you are being absorbed and invigorated by the book. I'd take that over reading speed any day of the week!

[LindaJ^]

Casceil wrote: "Daniel, I think you have put your finger on something. The book is more about what it was like to be in a particular place at a particular time than it is about plot or characterization. The book ..."

That sounds right -- "what it was like to be in a particular place at a particular time" does seem to capture what the book is about. And we are seeing it through the eyes of someone, as I think one of the review I read put it, who is not telling us what we should thing about the place, the time, or the people we meet.

And I agree with Ellie's observation about the information. I did a lot of looking up too. So much happened in the 1970s, while I was about the same age as Reno that I never knew about! It reminds me of when I first appreciated that Spain had been a dictatorship until the late 70's when I first visited the country 10 or 12 years ago. While I know there had been a Spanish Civil War pre WWII, it had never registered in my consciousness that Franco (unlike Mussolini and Hitler) was still oppressing Spain until 1976, I think.

Although some of the characters in this book have stuck with me, especially Ronnie. He shows up pretty early on and seems to play a pretty significant role, but I guess he's a topic best left for the spoiler thread!

[April]

I feel the book is an artwork itself. As we look at the art of the book, we also look through time at the artworld. Almost like a mirror looking into another mirror looking into another mirror.....

[Casceil]

April, I like your observation. Do you think the way the books jumps around in time contributes to this effect?

[April]

Yes, I think so. I've never really read anything like this. It is an "experience".

[LindaJ^]

April wrote: "Yes, I think so. I've never really read anything like this. It is an "experience"."

I'll second that thought -- it was an experience and one I quite enjoyed!