The Summer Garden (The Bronze Horseman, #3) The Summer Garden discussion


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*Spoiler*He Cheats On Her And You People Make Alex is A God???

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message 1: by Dee (new) - rated it 1 star

Dee What is wrong with people now a days ?? He thinks she is having and affair so he goes off to have one of his own without even bothering to verify his thoughts . And she forgives him and everything is okay ?? The only thing he did to make up for what he did was cry...and it was described that he cried for the first time in years . So what ?? Am I supposed to overlook the reason he is crying just because he cries the first time in years ??


message 2: by Tali (new)

Tali Chen i totally agree! this is awful! and the fact that so many people liked this book dispite all that is awful. i wish we could have stayed with the kind loving, brave tanya from the previous books.


Míša* It's not so simple. I hate cheating. I really do. I can't even stand those stupid love triangles. But this... Their marriage was practically in ruins. Yes, what he did was unforgivable, but... I don't know. They really love each other and everything they went through... It changed them and the way they're looking at some things. So what I'm saying is- what he did isn't right and I can't even imagine being on Tatiana's place but they were made for each other and it would be shame if they'd broke up.


message 4: by Tali (new)

Tali Chen i think that maybe if the author didn't jump 9 months after the breakup i could have been more understanding because it's just not that simple to forgive, she went on and on for 150 pages about alex's post war trauma but this she just ended with a simple i'm sorry. too unrealistic. also alex was so mean in this book bitching about her work all the time, she does everything at home, where is the alex that yelled at other people that she shouldn't do all the work? that helped her do the laundry? i think his character in this book is totally different and hers too and it's a shame, i understand that the real world and long term marriage has it's ups and downs but this is changing them too much.


message 5: by Alyssa (last edited Dec 03, 2013 04:51PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Alyssa Shura is soooo lovable in the first and second book. He gets away with a lots (mainly messing with Dasha while chasing after Tatiana and his hot temper), admittedly, because of how devoted and besotted he is.

The third just RUINS him and ruins their love story. Honestly, when I reread the first book a few months ago, I just pretended that The Summer Garden didn't exist, otherwise it would have ruined the entire series for me.

He not only cheats on her... he beats her, he shames her for her clothing choices, he wants her to quit working although she loves it, he forces sex on her when she doesn't want it, he is remorseless and disgusting. She is a battered woman and a doormat.

Nothing romantic about this awful "love story." I really wish Tatiana and Alexander was the final book in the series. The reunited and the ending was perfect. No one wants to read about an abusive relationship and label it "epic love."


message 6: by Dee (new) - rated it 1 star

Dee I am really glad to know there are people who feel the same . I totally agree by what Alyssa says above . And though I know the kind of trauma Alex had to suffer changes something in people . But it does not change who you are . And I don't know who Alex was in the third book. Here's a review that exactly explains my feelings .
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I totally regret reading the last book . It spoiled the entire series for me .


Lynette I think this section of the book is written very well. Life isn't just black and white, it would be very easy if it was. I felt differently about this whole storyline when I reread it.
It shows that even on the back of a true love like theirs, marriage takes hard work and they both neglected to work on their marriage, him when he failed to listen to her about the Baulkmans, her when she didn't get pregnant and retreated in to her work because throughout the trilogy Tatiana uses her nursing to deal with her loss and grief of not being able to save her family. She nurses to try and retrieve that feeling, there is a line in book 3 when Alexander says "don't even start me with what you are trying to recreate in that hospital."
Far be it from me to condone cheating, but you get a sense he was sending out signals to her before he stupidly got in that car with whats her face. Many marriages struggle under far less pressure in the real world when one partner is absent for 60+ hours a week, and thats when they do need the money. Alexander was stupid and readily admits that, but Tatiana was guilty of ignoring the signs that her marriage was at risk. I think it draws good parallels with daily life in the non fiction world.


Shaye I saw the whole situation differently. Alexander was reacting to Tatiana and that doctor. True enough he was more physical with that woman and had PLANS to go further BUT HE DID NOT! He tried to reach out to her multiple times. I found it hard to be sympathetic with Tatiana when she WAS having an emotional (far deeper than physical) relationship with that doctor. She WAS cheating FOR YEARS with him. She knew how he felt and to keep it from being wrong in her mind, she didn't want him to say anything out loud. What kinda BS is that. That doctor was taking cues from Tatiana and was staking a claim on her every chance he got in Alexander's presence. But Tatiana tried to make him doubt what he was seeing. If it had been the other way around and Alexander was doing THAT with his secretary, everyone would have been crying bloody murder. Yes, mistakes were made and Alexander apologized and sought redemption. Tatiana NEVER said a word.

As far as book 3 ruining the series, it didn't for me. I thought is was pretty accurate on how their lives would have been after such turmoil and hardship. It would have been completely unrealistic for Alexander to be the same, hell I wasn't the same after just reading it.


message 9: by Míša* (last edited Jan 13, 2014 12:12PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Míša* Shaye: I don't think that she was cheating on him. I mean... Alexander wanted she to stay home and do what? Just sitting there and thinking about things that she can't have? About past? That wasn't fair and Tatiana took her job like an escape. The doctor was her friend. Yes, he was a dumbass and he hoped that between him and Tatiana will be something more, but she definitely made some lines and NEVER crossed them. Alexandr did.
I understand that he felt hurt, but he had no right to feel like that. Tatiana was just messed up like he was and he really didn't make it easy for her. I think that they should've help each other and they didn't.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Shaye wrote: "I saw the whole situation differently. Alexander was reacting to Tatiana and that doctor. True enough he was more physical with that woman and had PLANS to go further BUT HE DID NOT! He tried to..."

I AGREE!!! Tatiana was also guilty of having an affair. It was an emotional one, but it was an affair none the less and I think she was having an affair not only with the doctor but with her job. She used her job and the many many hours she worked to try and heal herself emotionally and to tune out what was really happening in her life. She chose to ignore, time and again, the subtle signs and the not so subtle signs that Alexander was sending her. I believe Tatiana was able to forgive Alexander because she recognized in herself that she was not perfect in the marriage either. I do not condone any form of cheating, but I applaud how this book was written. This touched on so many subjects that real people go through every day. How can you possibly think that Alexander would be the same after everything he went through-and Tatiana changed too. Real love can be tough sometimes and people can make very bad decisions- we are not perfect.This book showed the good, the bad and the ugly of an epic, enduring love. In no way did this book spoil the series for me....I loved it.


message 11: by Shaye (last edited Jan 13, 2014 01:27PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Shaye Míša* wrote: "Shaye: I don't think that she was cheating on him. I mean... Alexander wanted she to stay home and do what? Just sitting there and thinking about things that she can't have? About past? That wasn't..."

There are many types/manners of cheating. She had feelings for Bradley and they were more than just friendly. She was involved with him. They might not have ever physicaly consumated the relationship but there WAS a relationship. She knew his feelings and still continued meeting with him. Bradley wanted her enough and had gotten enough positive feedback from Tatiana to openly show signs of ownership in front of Alexander (i.e. standing and waiting for her at the door impatiently while she is with her husband). That is what leads me to the conclusion that she was cheating. The only difference between Bradley and that crazy woman was that Bradley was trying to get a wife so he was taking it slow and the crazy woman wanted a quickie. I would have never thought that had she not had the conversation with Bradley about not voicing his feelings out loud.

There were both struggling and I don't think it was Tatiana working so much as her working at a hospital for long hours that bothered Alexander. It was the same as Alexander not being soldier anymore. IMO, they were trying to start fresh and her nursing was a BIG reminder of their past that they were trying to get away from.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Shaye wrote: "Míša* wrote: "Shaye: I don't think that she was cheating on him. I mean... Alexander wanted she to stay home and do what? Just sitting there and thinking about things that she can't have? About pas..."
Well said.


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Lynette wrote: "I think this section of the book is written very well. Life isn't just black and white, it would be very easy if it was. I felt differently about this whole storyline when I reread it.
It shows th..."


Completely agree with this. I think it was handled realistically and they worked through it realistically also. It crushed them both. Alexander felt such guilt and grief and Tania struggled to forgive him, but they fought through that because they knew that they loved each other and they needed each other to continue in this life. Often that is what it takes to make it through those gritty times in a marriage. Alexander was definitely in the wrong, but I think he knew that. Tatiana refused to admit that her actions were also damaging their relationship, and in some way Alexander cheating was his cry for attention from her. A vicious cry for attention, but still. I am happy she forgave him.


message 14: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue Shaye wrote: "I saw the whole situation differently. Alexander was reacting to Tatiana and that doctor. True enough he was more physical with that woman and had PLANS to go further BUT HE DID NOT! He tried to..."

I totally agree with you. I was angry with Alexander for what he did, but Gosh she's been absent in their marriage for years, she not only was overlooking her marriage but also her only child!
And don't get me started with the whole "running away" thing. Do we forget that for years she hid Alexander not telling him that the government was looking for him?
Tatiana has been naive and stupid durig the whole tilogy and the last book is no different.
Don't get me wrong, I loved every one of the books and also Tatiana, but the only time I got angry with Alexander was when he cheated, I can't count on my fingers and toes how many times I wanted to slap some sense in Tatiana.


message 15: by Ana (last edited Mar 08, 2014 03:40PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ana Saldivar Yeah I agree with most of the comments in here. Tatiana had part of the guilt in this situation. Alexander made something hurtful and almost unforgivable but c'mon people he went to the damn war and saw group rapes, horrible murders and he suffered a lot for himself, he obviously had a bad temper for everything he went trough but he tried to let all those things behind because he loved her and his son, and he only wanted Tatiana to let her damn job as a nurse because reminded him a lot of pain. He did wrong and I'm not justifying him, but that's how life is, you can't pretend that life is gonna be perfect all the time and even Tatiana realized about that, because she told him that she forgave him for everything he did for her, because he gave her his bread when she was hungry, he saved her from the cannibals, and took her out of Leningrad when she was about to die freezing. She couldn't let that ONE mistake weighted more than all the amazing things that Alexander made for her. Thats how grown up people fix their problems. When you get marry you see the book with other perspective.


Nancy Shaye wrote: "I saw the whole situation differently. Alexander was reacting to Tatiana and that doctor. True enough he was more physical with that woman and had PLANS to go further BUT HE DID NOT! He tried to..."

I agree with you Shaye. I thought Paullina Simons did a good job showing how Tatiana and Alexander drift and turn away from their marriage, and how they recommitted to each others because of what they have gone through together in the past.


Nancy Juniper wrote: "He physically beat her. This coming from the same man who saved Tatiana from being abused by her dad"

I know. That actually bothers me more than the cheating. I'm still glad that they manage to get past the whole ordeal, and there was no more cheating and physical abuse after that. In fact, their relationship was so strong that even the children can see it. It is a credit to PS that she still make their HEA believable after all that they have been through.


message 18: by Joy (new) - rated it 1 star

Joy Alex was my hero through books one and two. Book three he tumbled off his pedestal. Whatever Tatiana did or didn't do, she did not deserve to be raped, cheated on or punched to the floor bleeding. Had I followed the advice of many and stopped at book two Alexander would still be my hero.


Shaye He didn't beat her. He slapped her. The first and only time after making that horrible statement about carrying his child that they had been trying so hard for. He definitely didn't rape her. My goodness...


message 20: by Joy (new) - rated it 1 star

Joy What? He didn't beat her? I'm flabbergasted. Really? With that attitude I'm not even going to explain the definition of consensual sex to you. Look it up.


message 21: by Erin (new) - added it

Erin Bright Shaye wrote: "Míša* wrote: "Shaye: I don't think that she was cheating on him. I mean... Alexander wanted she to stay home and do what? Just sitting there and thinking about things that she can't have? About pas..."

Yep.. she emotionaly left Alexander behind and emotionaly let Bradley in. There are plently forms of cheating and just jumping into the sack isnt one of them. I agree with your post.


Patricia Carpenter Alexander was definitely a different character in this third book. He had to be. He couldn't have lived through all he did and be the same. He needed time to heal. Immediately returning to the character that he had been would have been unrealistic. He gets there eventually.


message 23: by Ana (last edited Aug 18, 2014 09:23PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ana Saldivar Patricia wrote: "Alexander was definitely a different character in this third book. He had to be. He couldn't have lived through all he did and be the same. He needed time to heal. Immediately returning to the char..."

Yeah I agree! He had a difficult life, he was traumatized since an early life, and lost his parents in a horrible way too, he didn't had an Alexander to take care of him just like Tatiana did. I'm not justifying his actions I'm just saying that he was a good man with a good heart but he lost his way a little. But at the end, he learned how to get back to the right direction. Besides, remember everything he did in the first two books for Tatiana and other persons, the way he helped the son of his boss, and how he wanted to look after all his peloton. The third book was hard and cruel but realistic.


Jeanine Celentano I would rather only the two books be written and not the third. That one bored me to death


message 25: by Porsha (new) - added it

Porsha I've put off reading this 3rd book for over a year. You guys' discussion has made me so damn nervous!!! I'm diving in anyway, though.


vanessa cursino Since the first book, he was never been a saint, he was always possessive and aggressive, and he became worse just after the war, but how he could be the same after all he has passed? And she was always submissive, not only for him but for everyone.


message 27: by Raechel (new)

Raechel Alexander has PTSD. It's unfortunate that the world did not recognize mental illness during that time. With PTSD, Shura will be aggressive and makes bad decision. He lost his way and he needed help. This makes him realistic because cheating does happen - it makes him human. Human are inevitably created to make bad decisions. We are fated to make bad choices is so that we learn from it and not repeat it. PTSD will make a person's personality entirely different. The things he experienced will haunt him. They will become more withdrawn and avoid the problem which obviously both - Tatiana and Shura - are doing. To Tatiana, Shura was worth it so she forgave him. Tatiana remembered all the wonderful memories they shared and one mistake will not weigh their marriage. They've been through a lot so why break up?


Natalie Raechel wrote: "Alexander has PTSD. It's unfortunate that the world did not recognize mental illness during that time. With PTSD, Shura will be aggressive and makes bad decision. He lost his way and he needed help..."

I wish goodreads had a like button. So many people misunderstand him in TSG and it drives me crazy. But you explain it perfectly.


message 29: by Jonada (last edited Nov 23, 2018 02:43AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jonada so he doesn't cheat on her when in the middle of the war, when he thinks he might never see Tania again but goes and cheat on her when she is there for him trying to get pregnant because his stupid ass wants kids. I would have hit him with a chair and then forgive him


Natalie Jonada wrote: "so he doesn't cheat on her when in the middle of the war, when he thinks he might never see Tania again but goes and cheat on her when she is there for him trying to get pregnant because his stupid..."

You got it so wrong...


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