What do you think of Uriel's action towards the end of the story?

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

What do you feel when Uriel did what he deemed is right? Did you feel sad? angry? blatant hatred for Gabriel? Or just solemn acceptance not unlike Uriel?

I was sadden by his resolve yet I kinda understands how he feels at that moment. I will try to elaborate once I get other feedbacks here ;)

[Steelwhisper]

It was a very logical conclusion. I have to say though that I was not moved emotionally very much by the book. For me it was more like a calculated piece of trainwreck unfolding, or maybe a character study which left me somewhat distanced.

It didn't even come over as earth-shatteringly taboo (incest), because several key components were lacking: the father never got to develop true fatherly feelings, because he was unaware of his son up to his kidnapping. I don't think he actually grows to experience fatherly feelings either, he just acknowledges his role at the end. As to Gabriel, while he was always aware there /was/ a father out there, he again had no chance at developing the feelings of a son. He was dealing with slight and loss mainly, and that scene in the car shows that only afterwards he realises some of it. To me that means that what took place in the cabin more or less happened between two strangers rather than true relatives.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Thanks for sharing Steel.

I do still feel affected by the taboo because no matter what (view spoiler)[we all know Uriel IS Gabriel's dad. They are blood related and no matter how the story is told, I would still remained disturbed by Gabriel's action towards his own dad. In my mind I just can't remain unaffected knowing what they did is extremely unnatural and I feel quite repulsed by it. This is irregardless of how they feel towards each other or only treats each other as strangers. This is similar to... 'I have sex with this older guy and later found out he was actually my real dad.' Ewwwww... *cringe* (hide spoiler)]

[Steelwhisper]

Different reactions to taboos. (view spoiler)[I lived for some time during my youth in France, where even close incest used to be permitted, and I guess that attitude stuck. I react in a stronger manner towards e.g. exploited situations of caretaking, like student-teacher, patient-doctor, than towards two people having incest. That said, yes, I of course also reacted to the rape itself, more probably to that than to the fact they were related. (hide spoiler)] But in general my personal taboos are elsewhere. ;) It's not as if I was unfeeling ;)

[Steelwhisper]

As to Uriel and what he did,(view spoiler)[ I think he already was tired of his life after his wife's death, so Gabriel just piled on more reasons why to commit suicide. (hide spoiler)]

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Steelwhisper wrote: "But in general my personal taboos are elsewhere. ;) It's not as if I was unfeeling ;) "

You are just different. I can understand that. Every individual is unique. Tats what makes our life more interesting. Since everyone has their our set of experiences in life, we are bound to have different kind of perception.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Steelwhisper wrote: "As to Uriel and what he did,[spoilers removed]"

OMG. Yes! that was what I was thinking too. He already had that intention when his beloved wife left and he is still very much in love with her. It's like the best way for him to end his longings and pain. Gabriel has given him that reason again.

[Steelwhisper]

Kynthos-the-Archer wrote: "OMG. Yes! that was what I was thinking too. He already had that intention when his beloved wife left and he is still very much ..."

In a way it was a very Asian tale in that regard. I loved that a lot.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Family value. And yes, Asians do have sensitive views on taboo like incest. Momma would kill me if she knows I read such a book. lol

I am curious, do you know the author and the illustrator are Asians when you read that book? I am very glad you like that book ;)

[Steelwhisper]

Kynthos-the-Archer wrote: "I am curious, do you know the author and the illustrator are As..."

Yes, I think it comes through. The art definitely, and I think the writing also has an inevitability about itself which I'd consider very eastern.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Tats odd cos JoChen's (TogaQ) art has always been considered very westernized. She's a Western comic book superhero illustrator. In Asian's eyes her work is very western when compared to other Asian artist.

Many of In These Words, Volume 1 readers says her Asian characters doesn't look Asian enough. lol. Both the MCs are mistaken for Caucasians.

[Steelwhisper]

Kynthos-the-Archer wrote: "Tats odd cos JoChen's (TogaQ) art has always been considered very westernized. She's a Western comic book superhero illustrator. In Asian's eyes her work is very western when compared to other Asia..."

She probably sits on the fence. For me the Asian influence is pretty obvious. But then, Gengoroh Tagame also often has rather Caucasian looking guys.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Gengoroh Tagame the bara mangaka? His are mostly furry bears. But didn't really see them as Caucasians tho.

[Steelwhisper]

Kynthos-the-Archer wrote: "Gengoroh Tagame the bara mangaka? His are mostly furry bears. But didn't really see them as Caucasians tho."

Not all, but quite a few don't look very Japanese or Asian to me. Love his work though.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

I see. Well to be fair, I didn't really read all his work. Only a few. Not really my cup of tea :P I just don't fancy hirsute men. Hehehe :D

[Yblees]

Steelwhisper wrote: "As to Uriel and what he did,[spoilers removed]"
I agree with Steel on Uriel's motivation here. (view spoiler)[ One thing about the artwork that's really misleading is Uriel and Gabriel look about the same age in the art. But if you think about it, Uriel must be in his late 50's or 60's with two grown sons. He is a tired, elderly man.

I'm also not that fussed about the incest part. It was rape - and in this case especially - much more about power and intimidation than anything else.
What I found most emotionally horrifying was the subversion of the love between a parent and child, and how it was used as motivation to destroy both characters. Even in the end, I think Uriel goes to his death feeling that Gabriel will get some good out of it. But of course, it ends up completely destroying Gabriel instead.
I can't help but think that if Uriel had been less suicidal, and had insisted on life instead, he could have convinced Gabriel to take another path - one leading to reconciliation for the family (with some things being kept secret). In that way, he's failed Gabriel yet again. (hide spoiler)]

[Yblees]

BTW, Jo Chen is Taiwanese, not Japanese. I think her artwork has elements of Chinese style comics (manhwa) as well as a strong western influence from drawing comics for DC, Marvel & co. Very fusion *LOL*

And I love Gengoroh Tagame's art. Don't always get his stories, but the art... wow!

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Yup JoChen aka TogaQ is a comic artist from Taiwan. If not mistaken her sis is also in the same line - an artist.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Yblees,

I quite agree with you there on the (view spoiler)[incest part and also on Uriel kinda failing Gabriel again. I could understand Uriel's difficult position tho. What happened to him wasn't easy to overcome and not felt shocked and numb in a way. I too wish very hard Uriel would try to talk Gabriel out of killing him.

But I don't think there would ever be any happy ending for both or them or with his half bro. The rapes can't be erased so easily. And Gabriel's mind isn't a stable one to have a normal relationship with his dad. He just need to 'own' his father completely to feel safe and complete. Perhaps seeing Uriel again was some kind of trigger for Gabriel. (hide spoiler)]

[Anna (Bananas)]

Good insight, Yblees. He did kind of fail Gabriel again. I hadn't thought of that.

[Anna (Bananas)]

As much as I love the art, I do think the male characters often look too similar in these books. Also, they don't look Asian at all. They all have the same slender, delicate look about them. And Uriel didn't look older than Gabriel at all.

(view spoiler)[The only one who looked Asian to me was the killer in ITW ch 9 or 10 I believe. (hide spoiler)]

[Yblees]

Well, Uriel and Gabriel are meant to be Caucasian - their surname is "Blackthorn" or something like that. So they're not Asian anyway.
Katsuya in ITW is Japanese - I think that's where the token glasses come in *LOL*.

I don't usually mind this kind of (somewhat generic)art, but (view spoiler)[I think the assault part of "Father Figure" would have had that much more impact if Uriel was drawn as a man in his 50's. Even trying to picture that image is freaking me out a little... (hide spoiler)]

[Anna (Bananas)]

I think they are white in FF. I meant in ITW mainly they don't look Asian but they're supposed to be.

That image is freaking me out too.

[Kynthos-the-Archer (Kyn)]

Yup, nothing Asian about them. That's why Katsuya needed that token glasses. :P

[Rosalinda *KRASNORADA*]

I am late to the party but hey I came!

My thoughts on this are a little bit different but don't hate me please, ok?

I think Uriel didn't (view spoiler)[ fail Gabriel. I mean, he didn't even know he existed. If I didn't get this wrong, he was with Gabriels mom for 2 weeks. He had no idea that she got pregnant.

I know there are no villains in this story because we're talking about people that are ill but if someone originated this in my SILLY opinion was Gabriels mom. She treated him like shit and somehow punished him when he mentioned his father. This is the reason why Gabriel became obsessed with the figure of a father in his life.
(hide spoiler)]

Anyway sorry, this is just my silly opinion and I understand we have different POVs.

I loved the story as it was and can't stop thinking about them. I wish more people were willing to give this one a try.

xxx

[Yblees]

Rosalinda *KRASNORADA* wrote: "I am late to the party but hey I came!My thoughts on this are a little bit different but don't hate me please, ok?"

When I said Uriel failed Gabriel at the end it was because (view spoiler)[ he allowed Gabriel to poison him instead of choosing to live. Not because he wasn't around when Gabriel was growing up, or because he left Gabriel with his lousy mother.
It's hinted that Uriel had been depressed after his wife's death, so he might actually have been wishing to die anyway - but he should not have allowed Gabriel to be involved in his death because it destroyed Gabriel. And, yes, I do think Gabriel would have let him live if Uriel insisted on that instead of the poison. (hide spoiler)]