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Archived Group Reads 2013 > Can You Forgive Her Chapters XXI - XXVI

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Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) To discuss these chapters


message 2: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 1290 comments .
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Chapter 21. Alice is taught to grow Upwards, towards the Light
Chapter 22. Dandy and Flirt
Chapter 23. Dinner at Matching Priory
Chapter 24. Three Politicians
Chapter 25. In which much of the History of the Pallisers is told
Chapter 26. Lady Midlothian


message 3: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Chapter 21. George is really showing his asshole colors. You can just see him parry and thrust with his wicked tongue. He forces Alice to agree that he has the "right" to talk to her, and then he jumps right in with talking about John Grey. Passive/aggressive?


message 4: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Who is Mrs. Grundy and why do we care about her? Does anyone understand the change in the horse's position?


message 5: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 1290 comments Teresa wrote: "Who is Mrs. Grundy and why do we care about her? ..."

"Mrs. Grundy, fictional English character who typifies the censorship enacted in everyday life by conventional opinion. She first appears (but never onstage) in Thomas Morton’s play Speed the Plough (produced 1798), in which one character, Dame Ashfield, continually worries about what her neighbour Mrs. Grundy will say of each development. Since then the term Mrs. Grundy has passed into everyday speech as a criterion of rigid respectability, especially in contexts in which free expression is impeded by excessive purity."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/t...

An allusion lost to our generation? At least, to my background.


message 6: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 1290 comments Teresa wrote: "...Does anyone understand the change in the horse's position?"

I think the significance to the story is about knowing the skills necessary to control. Try googling "put a horse in the bar" and you'll get some references about how a bit is placed in the mouth (bar -- where there are no teeth) so as to be able to curb the horse. Glencora and Alice each must learn to master their emotions and, to the extent possible, the environment in which they choose to function -- while not getting too hung up on the Mrs. Grundy's of the world.

(Teresa -- thanks for your questions. I had not paused on a possible story-telling significance to this passage. What I write here is only a guess.)


message 7: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Thanks, Lil! I spend more time on Google searching for the background stuff! And I love that part!


message 8: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Rowland Hill, famous preacher, instigator of the Penny Post, and one of the founders of the Religous Tract society. Do the Pallister girls sent out Religous tracts to all and sundry? What do their names mean? Iphy?


message 9: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Ha! There's a great statement by Jeremy(?) Pallister talks about not liking Americans. Trollope's mother was an author and she toured America and hated it. She wrote a book about her touring.


message 10: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2531 comments Has anybody figured out yet the exact relationships among Alice and all her "great relations"? We have aunts, cousins, and all, but I haven't worked out exactly how they're all related.

I probably could do it if I wanted to spend the time, but maybe somebody else had the same question and already has it figured out??


message 11: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2531 comments Lily wrote: "Teresa wrote: "Who is Mrs. Grundy and why do we care about her? ..."

"Mrs. Grundy, fictional English character who typifies the censorship enacted in everyday life by conventional opinion. She fi..."


She was part of my upbringing. She and Mrs. Beeton dictated what good manners and behavior meant. Emily Post was a mere nobody compared to them.


message 12: by Lily (new)

Lily (joy1) | 1290 comments Everyman wrote: "Has anybody figured out yet the exact relationships among Alice and all her 'great relations'? We have aunts, cousins, and all, but I haven't worked out exactly how they're all related.

I probably could do it if I wanted to spend the time, but maybe somebody else had the same question and already has it figured out??"


Well, this character list has some of the relationships. If you want to print it out, it might at least provide a good start for making annotations about the ones that are missing.

See Msg 18 Spoiler at https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I did a quick Google search without success, but am not interested in trying harder today. I suspect someone has done something that has been published, maybe in an .edu domain review.


message 13: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments I love Jeffrey's goal to move to New Zealand and be opposition to the Government and get a pension to shut up! Maybe this is what the loudmouth idiots in government are trying to do.


message 14: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments Magniloquence is my new favorite word.


message 15: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2531 comments Teresa wrote: "Magniloquence is my new favorite word."

It's a great one! If you want a wonderful English vocabulary, read Shakespeare, Milton, and Dickens, and you've got it.


message 16: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (tnorbraten) | 107 comments I have found that my friends can't understand me. I have tried to use "fain" in casual conversation and it just goes over their heads. When I read Jane Austen, my emails tend to be rather long, and full of commas and phrases.


message 17: by Lily (last edited Jan 04, 2014 07:46PM) (new)

Lily (joy1) | 1290 comments Everyman wrote: "Teresa wrote: "Magniloquence is my new favorite word."

It's a great one! If you want a wonderful English vocabulary, read Shakespeare, Milton, and Dickens, and you've got it."


Well, for a bit of dervish fun, throw in Lawrence Durrell as well.


message 18: by Trudy (new)

Trudy Brasure | 93 comments Teresa wrote: "Magniloquence is my new favorite word."

I noticed this fabulous word as well! And came across it two weeks later in Georgette Heyer's "The Grand Sophy." :)


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