Love & Social Change discussion

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Questions for the group > Is love enough?

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message 1: by Caroline (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
The world is in a mess in so many ways. Climate change, wars, economic inequality, and much more. Is love essential to solving these problems? And is it enough? If it's not enough, in and of itself, what else is needed?


message 2: by Niramisa (new)

Niramisa Weiss I'm assured that Love is the only thing required for saving the world. I also realise that the biggest problem is we dont' really know what Love is...yet.

My take on it, is to find out what Love 'Isn't' and eliminate it as untrue. Love seems to be the same as truth, for me, and they're both unconditional <3

Well, you could take a look at the book if you like too :D I think there's a few chapters to preview there. I'm looking for reviewers too and will supply copies, if anyone is interested...

The Liar

<3 <3 <3 with LOVE, Niramisa


message 3: by Rita (last edited Nov 19, 2013 06:34PM) (new)

Rita Chapman | 14 comments Hi Caroline,

If everyone could feel, if not love, compassion for everyone else on this planet then wars and racism wouldn't exist. Economic equality will always be, and probably should, but in this day and age no-one should be without food, shelter and education. First there needs to be birth control. Then we need to bring back discipline so that unacceptable behaviour is dealt with appropriately. Lookout, I'm starting to warm to my subject now! In summary, love and compassions can go a long way to making the world a better place to live.


message 4: by Les (new)

Les Huntley (leshuntley) | 3 comments Niramisa wrote: "I'm assured that Love is the only thing required for saving the world. I also realise that the biggest problem is we dont' really know what Love is...yet..

My take on it, is to find out what Love '..."


Hi, Niramisa. Yours is an interesting concept and approach. I have read Henk-Jan etc.'s review and must say I am intrigued. Two questions: Are you still offering copies to those interested in reading and reviewing? Can you tell me how to contact this reviewer? I see his website is in Dutch, definitely not my second language.

Also, you might be interested in reading my little book taking a much different tack from yours but addressing the same (or similar?) issues. I titled it "Truth and Freedom A Match Made In Heaven", subtitle "Antivirus Protection For Your Cranial Computer" I will happily mail you a copy if you think you might be interested. Currently the book is languishing on Amazon, hurting from a lack of reviews and needing much more marketing support than I have been able to supply.

Looking forward to hearing from you! Les H


message 5: by Niramisa (new)

Niramisa Weiss Oh Les, yes, forgot to mention, you can contact Henk by sending him a message through Goodreads I think.


message 6: by Caroline (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
Hello Readers! Thank you for beginning this discussion. We have a separate discussion thread for members of the group to discuss their own books. I ask that you use that thread instead of this one for that purpose. Several members of the Love & Social Change group have expressed concern that the discussions are filled with people promoting their own books. Thank you!


message 7: by Caroline (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
R.J. wrote: "First, “love” needs to be qualified. A person can love their girl/boyfriend, spouse, significant other, partner, children, mother, and father. Each is a different form of love, but all are intimate..."

Hi, R.J. I'd love to know more about your concept of Strong and True. What do you mean by "strong"? Can you give an example of using this standard on something specific?


message 8: by Les (last edited Nov 21, 2013 09:33AM) (new)

Les Huntley (leshuntley) | 3 comments Caroline wrote: "Hello Readers! Thank you for beginning this discussion. We have a separate discussion thread for members of the group to discuss their own books. I ask that you use that thread instead of this one ..."

Caroline, could you point me to that thread, please? Thanks A bit of brain freeze in the previous! Les H


message 9: by Niramisa (new)

Niramisa Weiss I wasn't planning on mentioning mine, but the thread subject practically begged me to do so...apologies <3


message 10: by Connie (new)

Connie Livingston-dunn | 139 comments If love lives in your house, fear can't get in. If fear lives in your house, love can't get in. Your body can only be in either fear or love, so choose love, it is a state of mind, body and heart and it feels soft and caring.


message 11: by Connie (new)

Connie Livingston-dunn | 139 comments Loving them and leaving them, this video seems off topic until you get to the very end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meWY...


message 12: by Monica (new)

Monica Renata (MonicaRenata) | 2 comments Is love enough?
Can love improve the world?

My answer is yes.......but.......

Love must be redefined, and if that happens then love may be enough. I think what is wrong with the world is that we misconstrue the true definition of the word 'Love'. We only think about love in the aspect of what truly benefits us. We base the concept of love on how we are feeling at the moment while neglecting the true definition of it.

'Love' is a great feeling of affection
'Affection' is a feeling of fondness
'Fondness' is an affection of liking of something or someone
'Liking' is to have a feeling of regard

Regard is defined as follows: "To consider or think of (someone or something) in a specified way."

And to be quite honest, we only 'regard' the things that affect our lives. Which is the problem. We neglect to think about others because they do not think about us. We don't pay attention to issues in the world that do not directly effect us. And that is what is wrong..... Love could solve so many things....However, many of us do not truly understand what love is.......This is just my opinion though.


message 13: by Caroline (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
Les wrote: "Caroline wrote: "Hello Readers! Thank you for beginning this discussion. We have a separate discussion thread for members of the group to discuss their own books. I ask that you use that thread ins..."

Hi Les, The discussion is called "Books and Blogs by Group Members." It's second on the list of discussion topics, on the home page! Good luck!


message 14: by Les (new)

Les Huntley (leshuntley) | 3 comments Caroline wrote: "Les wrote: "Caroline wrote: "Hello Readers! Thank you for beginning this discussion. We have a separate discussion thread for members of the group to discuss their own books. I ask that you use tha..."

Thanks Caroline. And this doesn't mean I won't be hanging around here to see what you are up to.

Les H


message 15: by Kayt (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments Before reacting to this post, keep in mind that I offer the observation below, not as a Christian but as a recognition of a bit of wisdom from the Christian tradition. Remember the tale of when Jesus was being tested and asked what is the most important truth? He said (paraphrased):

"Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself."

I believe if enough people learn to value the connectivity we share with everything and everyone (the earth and our fellow creatures, and the universe -- aka the Lord thy God)and our fellow humans (aka thy neighbor), things start to change. Maybe that could be called love ... but not the touchy feely, pretend everything's okay kind of love. Real love ... love that sees the warts in others, in oneself, and can still love, forgive and constantly strive to make one's little piece of the universe better.

To answer your original question, yes, I believe love is essential for real, positive change. Still, it can't be the marshmallow on top kind of love. It has to be "let's do what's really needed" kind of love, even if that means an occasional dose of castor oil.

Here's a simple illustration. A parent punishing a child because they are angry and selfish is abusive. A parent punishing a child to help them learn integrity does so out of love. Love is, perhaps, less about what we do and more about why we do it.


message 16: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Monica wrote: "Is love enough?
Can love improve the world?

My answer is yes.......but.......

Love must be redefined, and if that happens then love may be enough. I think what is wrong with the world is that w..."


I wonder what you think of this rumi line, Monica:

"There is a way of loving
not attached to what is loved...
All love without an object,
is true love..."
rumi


mark


message 17: by Kayt (last edited Nov 24, 2013 09:31AM) (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments Well put, Mark.


message 18: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Kayt wrote: "Well put, Mark."

Well, i wasn't saying i agree or disagree with the Rumi
quote :) Just conversing about it, really. I have various thoughts about love and my thoughts are not really 'unified'. I've noticed people's ideas on "Love" tend to break down into three categories:
1 Love as a 'feeling' for one person (romantic love)
2 Love as 'work' or 'duty' (social work)
3 Mystic love (Rumi, Blake, spiritual awakenings, etc)

I have found no way to 'unify' those three. I've heard other's try but ive never been convinced anyone can unify all three. Maybe two, but not all three.

m


message 19: by Kayt (last edited Nov 24, 2013 10:19AM) (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments Maybe we need a Love Periodic Table, like chemistry. Something so complex, so important yet we strive to contain it in a single word.

Hummm ... chemistry has simple roots. It's elements comprise the basis of all matter ... at least as I understand it. Yet the infinity of combination enables a complex universe.

Maybe love is the same ... its elements comprise the roots of all that is positive, yet the infinity of combination comprises a complex universe. Alas, then where does the Periodic Table for hate fit into the mix?


message 20: by Connie (new)

Connie Livingston-dunn | 139 comments I think love is the 'vibration' that permeates everything.


message 21: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Connie wrote: "I think love is the 'vibration' that permeates everything."

So you dont think its something you 'do' or 'feel' then?


message 22: by Caroline (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
Kayt wrote: "Before reacting to this post, keep in mind that I offer the observation below, not as a Christian but as a recognition of a bit of wisdom from the Christian tradition. Remember the tale of when Je..."

I agree with Connie that "true love," as you call it, Mark, is the vibration that permeates everything. And that all we need to do is be still, be silent, and notice it. I think in this sense it is the nature of God or Spirit.

We use the word "love" to describe many feelings and do-ings, too, of course. Our love for our mother may be different from our love for our father--or our sister or cat or boyfriend. We love chocolate and avocados, but in different ways. We "love" something a friend does because it's funny or charming. So many uses of the word "love"!


message 23: by Caroline (last edited Nov 24, 2013 02:28PM) (new)

Caroline Cottom (goodreadscomcaroline_cottom) | 98 comments Mod
Kayt wrote: "Before reacting to this post, keep in mind that I offer the observation below, not as a Christian but as a recognition of a bit of wisdom from the Christian tradition. Remember the tale of when Je..."

Your full post (above) is nicely put, Kayt.


message 24: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Caroline wrote: "Kayt wrote: "Before reacting to this post, keep in mind that I offer the observation below, not as a Christian but as a recognition of a bit of wisdom from the Christian tradition. Remember the ta..."

Yes, people mean a gazillion things with the word "love".
It almost becomes meaningless when i hear it. Because we all mean different things. And then to complicate it even more, some meanings seem to be 'beyond words'.

So conversing about it, is a challenge.

m


message 25: by Jan (new)

Jan Greene (jankg) | 21 comments Niramisa wrote: "I'm assured that Love is the only thing required for saving the world. I also realise that the biggest problem is we dont' really know what Love is...yet.

My take on it, is to find out what Love '..."


Niramisa wrote: "I'm assured that Love is the only thing required for saving the world. I also realise that the biggest problem is we dont' really know what Love is...yet.

My take on it, is to find out what Love '..."


Niramisa wrote: "I'm assured that Love is the only thing required for saving the world. I also realise that the biggest problem is we dont' really know what Love is...yet.

My take on it, is to find out what Love '..."

Hi Niramisa,
I looked up your book and it sounds intriguing.
Would you be interested in doing a review swap? My book addresses love in a certain way, but is not exclusively about that. It's I Call Myself Earth Girl.
You can check it out. Let me know if you want to swap reviews. Thanks. Peace!
Jan


message 26: by Jan (new)

Jan Greene (jankg) | 21 comments Rita wrote: "Hi Caroline,

If everyone could feel, if not love, compassion for everyone else on this planet then wars and racism wouldn't exist. Economic equality will always be, and probably should, but in th..."

I certainly agree about compassion being key. Also the belief that one's own happiness, access and well-being are not more important that everyone else's.


message 27: by Jan (new)

Jan Greene (jankg) | 21 comments Kayt wrote: "Maybe we need a Love Periodic Table, like chemistry. Something so complex, so important yet we strive to contain it in a single word.

Hummm ... chemistry has simple roots. It's elements comprise..."

I like this way of thinking about love.


message 28: by Jan (new)

Jan Greene (jankg) | 21 comments The questions about love - can it save the world? is it enough? What is it really, anyway?
To me, the problems we have in the world - which I will oversimplify into - ecological degradation, lack of social justice and continuing inequality of access to basic life necessities - (shelter, food, health care and education) require love rooted in action that helps solve these problems. That, of course, is easier said than done.
I can be compassionate, care about the poor, care about the environment, etc. but until I recognize that the choices I make in my every day life affect all of these people/things, my caring won't be enough.
When I think of "all we need is Love" it makes me think of that kind of love. The love that considers the impact of my choices and actions on everyone at all times. That is what I strive for in a very personal sense and in a much more global sense. However, despite my absolute belief that this type of love is essential to solving these problems, I am far from living my ideal.


message 29: by Kayt (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments Jan wrote: "The questions about love - can it save the world? is it enough? What is it really, anyway?
To me, the problems we have in the world - which I will oversimplify into - ecological degradation, lack ..."


Jan, what you wrote made me think of something I was taught years ago about the Hopi concept of good and evil. Good is what is in balance and evil is what is "Ka-hopi," out of balance.

Concepts such as love and truth are fluid. Everything you describe about our brokenness is about a world ... a humanity out of balance. Perhaps love is about being sensitive to what is needed for the greater good at any one moment. I have a saying: What is reasonable in an abusive environment is abusive in a reasonable environment.

Maybe balanced love is more like the relationship of the artist to the canvas. The creation can only happen when the artist is aware of what is inside himself as well as what is outside himself and, hence is able to create a beautiful marriage of the two.


message 30: by Anna (new)

Anna Stepanova | 7 comments My dear friends! We would like to congratulate you on the great holiday of Christmas. It’s the holiday that celebrates God’s love, and I wish you spiritual and human love, so that all your efforts in trying to do good are a success. Love between women and men, which is most often talked about in songs, paintings, poems and other forms of art is very important. It helps us to discover ourselves, to appreciate the best in somebody else, to find harmony and many other things. But it would be very limiting to concentrate only on the love to the people close to us. Love has a much broader meaning. It’s the feeling, which comes from the heart and captures your thoughts. It doesn’t allow you to remain indifferent to somebody else’s trouble. Love is able to foresee tragic events and prompts the person to do everything to help avoid tragic consequences, no matter where the threat comes from. The people in Goodreads are not indifferent, their hearts are full of sincere love and concern for everyone. My daughter Irina and I also belong to this category. When there is something disastrous happening in the world, I don’t sleep at night, and having made a decision, write to the people who can really influence the situation. At the end of August I shared with you my thoughts on dealing with the chemical weapons in Syria. Thanks God, with our joint efforts we managed to avoid military intervention in Syria, and the process of deactivating the chemical weapons and preparing for the peace talks has started.
One of the questions you asked was if we need to say good things to each other more often without being shy. I think that one of the most important needs of all people is attention. So one of the ways in which we can show our love to one another is to pay attention to what the other people do and say. It doesn’t necessarily mean that we should praise each other all the time. But it does mean that we should seek for something good and valuable in somebody’s work first of all, and we should value all the good things people are trying to do and support them as much as we can.
You are asking me about the character of the Russian people. I think the Russian people have suffered a lot and kindness, sympathy are rooted in their genetic code. There is even a proverb “the person of a generous Russian soul”. Let’s remember the famous writers Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoyevsky. Their generosity and grace were just amazing!
Now we can see the people come together and help each other when there is a disaster. But cruelty and indifference to the plight of others are wide-spread in our world. The values have changed. Money has become the most important thing. A great number of Russian oligarchs are indifferent to the needs of the poor population. We have a first-hand experience of this. I saw a family of 7 children with their parents living in a shed in a TV program in 2011. A lot of people responded to this situation and sent them money for basic things, such as an iron, a washing-machine, a computer, a fridge and so on. We have set an aim to ourselves to help them build a house. At first we hoped that somebody would help. We applied to different political parties, to the government, to the local administration, to the oligarchs and so on, but nobody was willing to help or showed any interest in this situation. We sent them £21000, they’ve made a big progress and are now building the first floor. A lot of money is still necessary to finish the construction. Our funds are running out. We have a big creative reserve – 400 copies of my book “Love and tears” and our pictures. The whole section of my blog “How wonderful the world is” is devoted to love in its many aspects. We have added some more pictures there, and the recent picture is called “Love at first sight and forever”. It’s devoted to the love between mother and child. We hope that our pictures and the story of our charitable activity will evoke the feeling of love.


message 31: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Pongster wrote: "I think love is something so big! In Dr. Hawkin's book, Power vs Force. Love (real love) is one of the highest consciousness any human being could aspire for. In love, everything else disappears. I..." How does everything else disappear in love? Only the individual knows that consciousness at a given time. The whole is in flux and is ever moving. What disappears for the individual will never disappear for the whole. It sounds like a nice dream and I wish it were true but reality is beautiful and ugly, dark and light. We can only have more or less love, it is not an absolute, though neither is hate.


message 32: by A.C. (new)

A.C. Willis (shadowspheonix) | 1 comments I would say that love is essential to solving all the worlds problems. I don't know if it's "enough". I say that only because change requires action. I could set back all day loving the earth but if I don't go out and do something to make it a better place, the world will never be better for it.


message 33: by Kayt (last edited Dec 25, 2013 06:55PM) (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments You know, love may not be "enough," but I don't think anything else will work without it.


message 34: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Kayt wrote: "You know, love may not be "enough," but I don't thinking anything else will work without it." I agree, without love everything dies. Love without action is empty, as care is thrown to the side.


message 35: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousand years Christianity has not brought about the world you think possible. What difference will another two thousand make? Loving someone else does not make them love you or others. If it were that simple we would not be having this conversation, the world would be healed, and utopia established. A beautiful dream can be just as damaging to the re-balance, as an ugly lie. It hurt when I let go of that dream myself. Though now my efforts go toward change based on reality. I could never go back, I see to much to.


message 36: by Kayt (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments David wrote: "Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousand years Christianity has not brought abo..."

Sounds like the battles of life have made your glass half empty. While I agree that a beautiful but dillusional dream can be damaging, I see things a bit differently. The world is far from perfect, but how much worse would it be without love? As far as Christianity and those 2,000 years are concerned, a while back, I was asked to speak about homosexuality and the Bible, and I wrote a blog based on that presentation after a number of people requested that I share the speech in a written format. While the subject is specific, perhaps it will give you a different persepctive on what has happened in the Christian world.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...


message 37: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments I'm not sure this will fit with everyone's view of "love and social change" but it fits with mine, so...here's a man with a grasp of the problem and part of the solution (imho)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_lamS...

Its a little dry and boring at the beginning but if you stick with it, Richard Wolff has some interesting ideas on 'cooperation' among humans.

mark


message 38: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Kayt wrote: "David wrote: "Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousand years Christianity has n..." I know what it may sound like but I assure you, it is not. Where am I or have I been promoting a world without love? Love exists without Christianity does it not, it existed before Christianity did it not? It existed in the Kiva, did it not? Trying to rid us of an interpretation of a God who promotes genocide and racism, is that not an act of love? The only difference between myself and most people, is that I do not ignore the negative as to remain positive. Truth is important to me, it is my religion, if I can be said to have one. Because a positive world built upon a lie is empty and less than what it could be. My glass is half full in that I believe we can do better.


message 39: by Kayt (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments David wrote: "Kayt wrote: "David wrote: "Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousand years Chris..."

David, I suspect we are arriving at the same destination from different points of origin. Wish we could talk over a cup of coffee.


message 40: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Kayt wrote: "David wrote: "Kayt wrote: "David wrote: "Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousa..."

Kayt wrote: "David wrote: "Pongster, Idealism from a doctor or anyone else is still idealism. The question is, will everyone on earth ever love each other the same? In over two thousand years Christianity has n..." I know what it may sound like but I assure you, it is not. Where am I or have I been promoting a world without love? Love exists without Christianity does it not, it existed before Christianity did it not? It existed in the Kiva, did it not? Trying to rid us of an interpretation of a God who promotes genocide and racism, is that not an act of love? The only difference between myself and most people, is that I do not ignore the negative as to remain positive. Truth is important to me, it is my religion, if I can be said to have one. Because a positive world built upon a lie is empty and less than what it could be. My glass is half full in that I believe we can do better.

Maybe not the same exact destination but different points of origin is guaranteed. And chatting over the internet is like reading with welding goggles on, most of us don't even realize just how limited it really is.


message 41: by Jadzia (last edited Dec 30, 2013 11:59AM) (new)

Jadzia Cypress | 6 comments Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor act anything like him. From all accounts he was a Jew (not a Christian obviously since he inspired the movement of followers) and had studied with the Essenes and possibly also in India. Many of the texts which would have made his teachings clearer were struck from the current Bible during the Council of Nicea in the third Century of this era. Reading those I think gives a much clearer picture of his understanding of the absolute equality and indisputable worth of each being and his compassion for them. Sitting in a Christian, or other church, does not make you a true follower of Christ anymore than sitting in a garage will make you a car. I agree with David that Christianity does not have an exclusive claim to love. But I think that discussions centering around religion are always going to be inflammatory and on this point are likely unnecessary. Love is a much used and little understood word in the English language. Therefore the question "Is love enough?" is almost too vague to be discussed. We need a working definition of love first.
I am a realist also however, if we allow the "facts" of our present circumstances to limit our imaginations or determine our future, we are indeed a doomed species. I believe that our area of growth is not in the mind but in the heart. We have ignored the heart for a long time and allowed ourselves to be duped into believing that only the mind ( the brain) and of that only the left brain is essential to humans - I believe we have a huge learning (or relearning perhaps) curve coming to reunite with our feelings, our heart. In truth, I do believe that love is one of the few tools we have to master ourselves and our circumstances while there is yet time. But in order to have compassion, we must first understand and love ourselves truly and completely. That means sorting through your limitations of culture, role, etc. and dealing with your emotional baggage. As Christ said (and I paraphrase) First take the beam out of your own eye, then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's".
As a linguist, I tend to research foundational words to see what is going on. I offer the following poem, since it expresses what I mean exactly, or at least I hope that the limitations of this medium will not interfere with the transmission and it will be received and understood as it was intended. Namaste!
Impoverished
Sanskrit has more than ninety words for it,
Ancient Persian eighty, the Greeks only three.
How poor is our understanding of love that we
Have reduced it to only one word?
So general, so overarching and yet so meaningless,
How can we begin to open our hearts and show
That emotion, which we do not truly know
Well enough to have the words to express
The facets and dimensions of compassion and tenderness
We may feel,
If with the feeling no descriptor is available?
How do we ever truly communicate our heartfelt and unique connection?

The Inuit’s essential relationship with snow gave them thirty words
To reflect their thorough understanding and appreciation of it.
One simple word shows how impoverished we are in our hearts.
We need more to show what we have stored,
Locked away in our long-hardened hearts,
Which as they thaw out will need to speak,
To shout the volumes and nuances of
Our experience of love in all its permutations
And help us create
That joyful world and life for which we are meant.

Resonating at the heart’s frequency necessitates new expression.
Our new frontier: A re-discovery of the heart.
A renaissance of connection; love for everything
For all is one.
Not one is any greater or less than another,
Neither in form nor role.
Our perseverance on difference stops our being whole.
The perception of our separateness imprisoning us,
has stolen from us our heart’s sensitivities.
Yet we are not separate,
We are each an expression of the life force – unique and precious, still and always connected.
Without the ability to know that connection, we lose our heart’s feeling, and are reduced to a shadow of what we truly are.
Love is our purpose, estranged as we are from it,
Our lives become sad, tragic.
Unconditional love is the truth of us.
Let us learn to speak that truth:
Love is one of many words.
Let us learn them all and grow rich.


message 42: by Kayt (new)

Kayt Peck | 16 comments Jadzia wrote: "Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor act anything like him. From al..."

Hear! Hear! Would I ever love talking over coffee with you!


message 43: by Jadzia (new)

Jadzia Cypress | 6 comments Thanks! It would have to be a virtual coffee - you are in sunny Texas and I am in the frozen north of British Columbia (and I do mean North!). But it would be an interesting conversation indeed! If you ever want to grab a coffee over skype and we could work out the time differential, I would be up for it!


message 44: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Jadzia wrote: "Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor act anything like him. From al..."

I would love to know more about the Sanskrit and Persian words for 'love.' Are you sure all those Sanskrit and Persian words are words that mean 'love' ?

mark


message 45: by Jadzia (new)

Jadzia Cypress | 6 comments I am not a scholar of Sanskrit or Persia, although I speak three other languages fluently and understand several others. My inspiration for the poem was an article, for which I don't have a reference any more. But google knows these things perhaps. Sorry. I do know the three Greek words - agape (unconditional love), filio (brotherly love/friendship), eros - (physical/sexual love. There is also storge (affection - like for a child by a parent) but I don't think it really fits because it also means just putting up with something.
As an aside to that - the poem is easily take apart because you could say that there are other words for love in English - compassion, affection, sympathy, etc. But on my side, people will use "love" as a word for any and all of those.


message 46: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments Jadzia wrote: "I am not a scholar of Sanskrit or Persia, although I speak three other languages fluently and understand several others. My inspiration for the poem was an article, for which I don't have a refere..."

I think its always interesting talking about definitions of love. People do tend to throw the word around, but i find that no-one quite agrees or knows what the heck it means. We kinda have to 'live out the question' of what 'it' means.

mark


message 47: by Jadzia (new)

Jadzia Cypress | 6 comments Jadzia wrote: "I am not a scholar of Sanskrit or Persia, although I speak three other languages fluently and understand several others. My inspiration for the poem was an article, for which I don't have a refere..."

I would definitely agree with you on that point. The perspective is slightly different at least for everyone. For my part I find that the more I can accept and love myself in all my imperfection, the better I can accept and have compassion for the efforts of others and truly see them. The more I love and the less I judge myself (and that is hard work!) the less I will judge others. Or at least I will realize, sometimes afterward that I have judged and will make a "course correction". It flies in the face of our culture, which is always judging. Working on seeing without judging is my 2014 resolution. I made last year's - getting a book into print and learning to accept myself. If we are to work on love but don't love ourselves (acceptance and honesty not selfishness and pride, we are doomed to failure. If I don't have it to give, I can't put it out there. So "live out the question" is totally apt.


message 48: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Jadzia wrote: "Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor act anything like him. From al..." Concerning unconditional love, would you suggest it to anyone in any situation? For example the holocaust, should the Jews have loved Hitler until they all where dead? Doesn't self-preservation fit into this world of life and death? Shouldn't love be conditional as to save one self from destruction? Should a wife not leave a husband who beats her every night? I believe that being selfless creates misery and that is my quarrel with Christ. Love should be our foremost action and reaction but it is not an absolute. I hate to be the one who wrestles such a beautiful dream, to only tie it onto reality, no one likes those who do this. But truth involves a certain amount of pain. That we must be willing to accept. Until we do, in the dream we only see half of the world and are taken advantage of by the darkness. Love must be realized in truth or those who follow it, will lose faith in love. The lion does not lay down with the lamb regardless of how beautiful it sounds. That is the truth and until I see day without night and life without death and pleasure without pain and love without hate. I will believe in the cycles of all that is reality. Truth is the gateway to wisdom, and the understanding of love is only one door.


message 49: by Mark (new)

Mark | 123 comments David wrote: "Jadzia wrote: "Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor act anything li..."

But you have assumed 'your' definition of 'love' is the same as everyone elses. Who says love means staying with an abusive spouse? Who defined love that way? Etc.

See, we all have different definitions of 'love'. You cant assume everyone is using the word the way you use it. Right?

mark


message 50: by David (new)

David Zumas (DavidDomon) Mark wrote: "David wrote: "Jadzia wrote: "Although I have no quarrel whatsoever with Christ and what he wrote I grow weary of meeting people, who call themselves Christians yet no virtually nothing about, nor a..." Unconditional love has no condition in which one does not love. There is only a single definition is there not? I have only assumed the true meaning of the word. Unless you are suggesting that words do not have meanings or that comprehension of an others point of view is impossible, I do not understand your point. So no.


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