Huxley, Aldous - Brave New World - Relaxed Buddy Read - Start February 7, 2014

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

This topic is open for discussion of Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

BE PREPARED FOR SPOILERS

What is a buddy read?

About this Buddy Read
A “Relaxed Buddy Read” is similar to our usual “buddy reads” except there are less questions and break points. For example, a book may be split into three sections and those reading the book should pause at the end of the section to answer some discussion questions, make comments, or ask their own questions to other readers

Synopsis

ar in the future, the World Controllers have finally created the ideal society. In laboratories worldwide, genetic science has brought the human race to perfection. From the Alpha-Plus mandarin class to the Epsilon-Minus Semi-Morons, designed to perform menial tasks, man is bred and educated to be blissfully content with his pre-destined role.

But, in the Central London Hatchery and Conditioning Centre, Bernard Marx is unhappy. Harbouring an unnatural desire for solitude, feeling only distaste for the endless pleasures of compulsory promiscuity, Bernard has an ill-defined longing to break free. A visit to one of the few remaining Savage Reservations where the old, imperfect life still continues, may be the cure for his distress…

A fantasy of the future that sheds a blazing critical light on the present--considered to be Aldous Huxley' s most enduring masterpiece

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Suggested reading schedule

February 7 - Start reading!

February 9 - Pause to discuss Chapters 1-6 (The Introduction)

February 11 - Pause to discuss Chapters 7-9 (The Reservation and the Savage)

February 13 - Pause to discuss Chapters 10-18 (The Savage visits the World State)

Feel free to read at your own pace, but if you want to read faster than the above then please use spoiler tags

[Leslie]

I'm excited to read this.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I am so curious about this concept written so long ago!

[Anima]

I'm in for the discussion, I read this book a long time ago and gladly refresh my memory and share thoughts!

[Michelle]

I'm definitely going to try and join in on this one. I've had it for a while now but haven't gotten the chance to read it yet.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Great :)

[Mirliz]

I'm joining this one!

[Logan]

I'm a tentative yes on this one. I've always wanted to read it, but we'll see if the timing works out.

[Vicky]

I'm hoping to join in on this one, depending on how things work out in February!

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I've just discovered I can get this from my library on audio which is awesome! It means I will probably start it a little earlier, but I'll keep my comments to myself until Feb :)

[Jex]

I've put this on my calendar.

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

From Wikipedia:

Brave New World is a novel written in 1931 by Aldous Huxley and published in 1932. Set in London of AD 2540 (632 A.F. – "After Ford" – in the book), the novel anticipates developments in reproductive technology, sleep-learning, psychological manipulation, and operant conditioning that combine to profoundly change society. Huxley answered this book with a reassessment in an essay, Brave New World Revisited (1958), and with Island (1962), his final novel.
In 1999, the Modern Library ranked Brave New World fifth on its list of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century.[1] In 2003, Robert McCrum writing for The Observer listed Brave New World number 53 in "the top 100 greatest novels of all time",[2] and the novel was listed at number 87 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.[3]

[Christine]

I've wanted to read this forever, I am going to join.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Great Christine! It feels like a while since we have done a read together :)

[Jessica]

I'm in for this one!

[Brianna Andreda]

I'm definitely in for this one. This book has been on my TBR pile for too long. Look forward to this group read and discussion!

[Yanny]

joining in on this, if still able.

[Jex]

I just got my book and will be starting shortly.

[Jex]

PS: I just noticed that the start date is listed as the 7th but the reading schedule starts on the 17th. Did I miss something?

I'm happy to update one or the other, I just don't want to mess it up :-P

[Lisa Kay]

Good question, Jex. Because our Home Page shows it as the 7th, and if it is the 17th, we'll have to change it.

[Leslie]

I just picks my copy up today. Can't wait!

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

My mistake Jex - it is meant to be the 7th! I'll update :)

[Jex]

I thought that was the issue but wanted to make sure. Thanks for updating Karen!

[Jex]

Foreward:

I read the foreward in my book today. Thought I'd get a head start.

(view spoiler)[I was very interested in what was said in the Foreward, but feel that it might be more beneficial to read after I've read the book. I really liked all the comparisons between Orville's Nineteen Eighty Four and Brave New World. I think a lot of it will make more sense once I've actually read Brave New World and may even come back to read the foreward again. I always find it fascinating to see what aspects of society influence dystopian novels and bring the authors to believe of the possibility, no matter how far fetched. In fact, that's what I love most about dystopian novels. They are the extreme of what society could become if we travel down the right (or should I say wrong) paths. I'm even more excited to read this book now that I've seen all the comparisons and read the Foreward because I loved Nineteen Eighty Four and hope this book will be amazing as well. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Ah interesting Jex. I had the audio and there was no foreword.
I did struggle when I started the book, particlularly with the "Ford" references, and I ended up having to google the book to get some background on the writer's motivations and society at the time and then I found it "clicked" for me. Perhaps if I had the foreword that would have done the same thing!! :)
Anyway, I'll leave my thoughts on the Introduction until later....

[Jex]

My book has a Foreward and a Preface. I read the Foreward, but the Preface was hard to get into. I didn't get anything he was talking about it. It seemed like something you need to read after reading the book to understand why he wanted to make the changes to the book.

[Kaitlin]

I'd like to join you guys. I'm starting today :-)

[Jex]

Ch 1-6 (The Introduction)

(view spoiler)[So far this book has baffled me at how it seems to be the exact opposite of what our society is.

First: an assembly line of people making! I couldn't believe that they can get 96 people from one egg, and over 15,000 people from one good ovary! That's a crazy lot of people, not to mention it's a crazy process to get them going. All of the conditioning that goes into each egg whether it's dumbing them down, pumping them up, or teaching them to be upside down, the conveyor system was just crazy.

Then to go on and condition the children after egg with sleep whispers and electric shock. I was stunned by the incident with the flowers and the books, teaching the kids to hate them both because what purpose does their caste have for books and pretty things. It's interesting to think that someone can be conditioned to that level, to never ask why they are the way they are, and to never wonder what the other castes do.

Then you get the erotic games for children! A society that pushes you to follow your urges, have fun all the time, never want for anything. I wonder if a system like that can even work? I see the idea behind getting rid of emotions and the "want" in life, but wow. I couldn't imagine a world where you have tens of thousands of sexual partners in a life span, and are encouraged to be this way. It seems like the main purpose of this society is to play and have sex.

Bernard and Helmholtz show a different aspect as the outsiders that begin to think too much. Bernard shows the shunned, too small for his caste, while Helmholtz shows the over achiever, thinking more than needed as he's just too good at things. It's interesting how a slight difference can end up with such different results in conditioning. It makes me wonder why the society chooses to let people like these two stay around as they are so different. Then again, it sounds like Bernard is being outcast finally to Iceland.

The solidarity ceremony really weirded me out. It was like some weird orgy ceremony to keep people from thinking they are special. Goes to show that if you give someone enough drugs you can make them think anything.

Then there's the soma. All the sayings around soma to make people want to take it regularly. No feeling, no thinking, just bliss and fun. I could definitely use a soma ice cream here and there if that's the case :-P

I'm really interested in this book so far, but I'm also having trouble reading it as it seems a bit dense and weirdly layed out. Ch 3 was really tough for me to read with the every line being a different speaker. I think it showed the bombardment the society goes through every day.
(hide spoiler)]

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Ch 1-6 (The Introduction)
(view spoiler)[
Jex, you summed up this section really well! I struggled with the eroticism and Ford being a deity. That is why I went and researched the book and when I realised this was an intentional satirical look and where he actually thought society could go. The book started as a way for him to poke fun at all the HG Wells types and then he realised he was actually writing a book.
I guess for the time I understand the concern over mass production and the lessening of values which led to his thoughts.
I found these concepts interesting, but the actual style of the book is not that enjoyable to me as it is very much "lecture" style and I prefer not to be talked to as it keeps the reader distanced from the characters. Perhaps that was intentional. (hide spoiler)]

[Jex]

@Karen: It's interesting to me that he wrote this book back in 1931. If it still shocks us today, think of what they thought of it way back when!

I agree with the book styling being strange. I'm having a really hard time getting super interested even though this is really my type of book (genre wise). I hope it gets more character focused. I like all the Bernard stuff so far.

[Leslie]

I don't think I can sum up my thoughts better than you two did. I'm super enjoying it so far though.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Great Leslie

So true Jex - it must've been extremely controversial

[Kaitlin]

Yeah I think the trouble with making this too character focused is that people aren't supposed to have personalities. They're bred and trained to be uniform. But I agree; I feel like I'm being lectured, rather than that I'm reading a story.

I think the use of Ford as a God-like figure is interesting. I just finished The Plot Against America. Though I didn't really enjoy it, it taught me a lot about American "heroes." Ford was a big-time anti-Semite, so knowing that, using him as a deity makes even more sense, given that the society is segregated, and people are taught to believe that other "races" are undesirable.

Karen, that's really interesting that he was making fun of Wells and accidentally wrote a classic novel lol.

[Mirliz]

Chapter 1-6

(view spoiler)[It's difficult to sum this up in any other way than has already been made.

I enjoy this kind of books, simply because one gets to think about that the outrageous ideas presented might become reality to some extent far in the future. And that's scary.

This whole thing about the breeding factories, and the way people are produced and raised during childhood gave me the shivers, but at the same time it was so fascinating.

I think that what makes me feel most awkward when reading this book is the fact that many of the things and ideas in it actually already do exist today - in less extreme versions. The divisions between races and social statuses, segregation, religious (and other) fanatics, cloning, ways to control the people, and so on. That fact only adds to my unease, thinking about where we (humans) will end up eventually one day.

That being said, I do like the book. It is written in a less common style, but it works well for this kind of story, I think. And I'm not really bothered by the lack of character focus - I actually prefer this. (hide spoiler)]

[Jex]

@Kaitlin: I didn't really think about the lack of character in that way. Good point. Really interesting facts about Ford too. I was wondering why he was chosen and am hoping there will be something more about it in the book.

@Mirliz: Very true. Some of the things in the book already exist, even if only in theory or only in experimental states. We very well could produce a factory line of people if we wanted with all the gene therapy and test tube babies. I doubt we are quite as far along as this novel, but weird to think that with this book written in the 30's some of it has come true.

[Jex]

Chapter 7-9 The Reservation and the Savage

(view spoiler)[
The trip to the reservation was really intriguing and insightful as to how society had changed. Lenina's reaction to everything shows exactly how sheltered people have become. To not know old age or child bearing. Her reaction to breast feeding really dug in the point. She'll sleep with everyone, but breast feeding is gross and "revolting".

Linda presents this sheltered lifestyle further with her being left behind. She could not mend clothing, she didn't understand pairing for life, and she definitely didn't understand how to deal without Soma. Instead of trying to cope with life, she simply found a different drug, and even though it made her sick, she continued to use it to escape. She even tried to condition her child to the old ways! What good was that going to do him when he lived on the reservation. I really think Linda could have tried a bit harder to fit in on the reservation and to cope, but it seems she just couldn't (or wouldn't?) try.

Seeing all of this through John really helped show the drastic differences. His mother couldn't answer simple questions on why things were. They just were because they weren't part of her duties. John also shows that to be different is to be outcast no matter the society. He didn't come from anywhere else, but he looked different and was raised by someone different, therefore he was not welcome in the society.

My favorite quote was this: "If one's different, one's bound to be alone". So true in every society ever!

I'm interested to see how things turn out with Bernard's plan to bring John back to society. I wonder if he'll be able to bring Linda back as well, or if he'll want to.

John has turned kind of creepy stalker with his obsession of Lenina. I wonder if he'll get caught as the intruder and not be able to go back with Bernard because of it? (hide spoiler)]

[Mirliz]

Chapter 7-9

(view spoiler)[These chapters were really interesting. I really like to read about how different people experience the same place or event in different ways, and this is a very good example of people from totally different worlds and their views.

The people in the reservation don't see their way of living as strange. It's like it's always been, natural and tough and what we as readers are more used to.

The people outside the reservation have such a clinically clean and safe life, and hardly understand the words family, home and mother, they never experience raising children as mothers, or old age.

Because of that, I find it extremely interesting to see their interactions, their thoughts about the other side, the things they say. Linda is particularly interesting since she ends up having to survive in the reservation, and not being able to adapt. I'm not sure if she doesn't have the will to adapt and learn, or if she simply can't because of the way she has been brought up. Maybe the part of the brain that controls that will to learn and adapt hasn't been able to develop normally? And that's why she prefers to take drugs - because that's the way she's been taught to deal with difficult situations. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaitlin]

@ Mirliz - I found the Linda thing especially sad. She was programmed to behave in a certain way, making adapting impossible. It does seem like she was an OK mother at least, in that she and her son seemed to have a good connection.

I think Huxley was a little heavy-handed with the no mothers, no dirt, no monogamy thing. It got pretty preachy, like Christian propaganda, by the end IMO (view spoiler)[when we learn that what's really missing is God. (hide spoiler)]. This book was probably really cool in its time, and I know it was controversial, but for me it didn't hold up.

[Mirliz]

@Kaitlin - I agree that it got very preachy in the end. Even though I was raised in a Christian family I'm not a Christian myself, so that part was a bit too much for me.

Apart from that, I enjoyed the book as a whole, and these kind of books always make me a bit frightened about the future - how far will society go in reality, what inventions will we see, what limitations on society will we see, and so on. I guess I'm too much of a thinker. :)

[Leslie]

I agree that it did get really preachy at the end but I did really enjoy this book. I can't wait to teach it to the class I'm covering in June, I think it will open up some really killer dscussions.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

@Jex and Mirliz re: chapters 7-9

I agree with your comments, and Jex your favourite quote! It was so sad about the drugs, but I guess growing up in such a different world that was her coping mechanism.

This was the section of the book I enjoyed the most as it generally went away from that "lecture" style and the comparisons to savages are thought provoking (who is the actual savage?!...)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Chapters 10-18 (The Savage visits the World State)

I would struggle to say that I enjoyed this book.
I found it became a dragging narrative again in this section and got bogged down in discussion on religion and then ended in an unsatisfying way. I always find it hard to rate a classic, and this would only get 2 stars if it wasn't for my appreciation of the logeviity of the story and the relevance of the book for the time it was written

[Michelle]

I don't think I could say that I am enjoying this book much either. I'm just over 60% through and am struggling to get the motivation to finish it.
I too feel like I'm reading a lecture rather than a book and if it wasn't for the fact that this book has become such a talked about classic I probably wouldn't bother finishing it.
I'm to stubborn to have come this far to stop now though!

[Brittney]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't enjoy this book. I had to read for my English class.

[Jex]

I fell behind on this book. Only at chapter 10 so far. Hopefully finish by Friday.

[Jex]

Ugh this is tough. I like the ideas in the book, but it's so hard to get through! I find myself reading a chapter than getting distracted by other things. It just can't really keep my attention. I'm determined to finish it. Chapter 14 so far. Although in looking at my book I thought I had a ton to go and ended up being a bunch of additions at the end. So that's a relief.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Lol I understand. I was glad to have this on audio. I don't know that I would've finished it otherwise

[Jex]

Turns out my copy was the revisited version so the end has a bunch of information on what he would have changed in the book. I didn't actually read it, but it sounded interesting. Maybe I'll go back and read that sometime after I've gotten over the boredom of the story.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

*giggles*