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Do we become god?

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message 1: by Doc (new) - rated it 1 star

Doc Ronny Allard pg. 128 #460, pg. 228 #795


message 2: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 13, 2012 12:33PM) (new)

they have a discussion about it over here in the Catholic Answers forum: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread...

Those are confusing lines to figure out, because it kinda sounds like what we weren't supposed to want in the Garden of Eden, right? Perhaps it means we become "godly" by loving God? My name is from the name Michael which means "who is like God" - hopefully this is ok. Thomas Aquinas probably explains himself in the writing which the footnote indicates - if someone could get their hands on that good-read and explain it to us better. However, I'd prefer to meditate more on the line instead which says "The Word became flesh to make us *partakers of the divine nature*" Other parts of the Catechism of course stress that there is only one true God there are not other gods...even look over to the next page: "III. TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN" that starts a section that should confirm what we believe about the one true God; so we have to have a little faith...


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

hi! :) sorry for the delay...
ok, read the first article...noticing St. Thomas Aquinas is mentioned along with a quote relating to the issue from this discussion...the rest of the article doesn't really explain it away...but it doesn't make us sound like we literally become "gods" either...one of the many samples of good quotes is this one that shows that we are not God but that the Triune God is God:
"The fulfillment of the promise of the Spirit to the apostles would be presented in two varying traditions. According to John, this promise was fulfilled when the risen Jesus met with his apostles and breathed on them (“When he had said this he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy spirit’” ….Jn. 20:22). A fuller tradition of the fulfillment of this promise is preserved for us in Acts 1-2. There, however, the bestowal of the Holy Spirit was for “witness”. The apostles had to wait for the “promise of the Father”, which they had heard from Jesus (Act 1:4). The promise would be a “baptism with the Holy Spirit”, as a result of which the apostles would be “witnesses of Jesus” (Acts 1:8)."

ok moving on to the next article--
it starts out with that original confusing quote...it still confuses me...far be it from me to dissent from the Catechism...I admit I do not *understand* that paragraph very well it's not making sense to me still... however this paragraph's theology is much simpler for me:

"CCC 526 "To become a child in relation to God is the condition for entering the kingdom. 205 For this, we must humble ourselves and become little. Even more: to become "children of God" we must be "born from above" or "born of God". 206 Only when Christ is formed in us will the mystery of Christmas be fulfilled in us. 207 Christmas is the mystery of this "marvelous exchange":

O marvelous exchange! Man's Creator has become man, born of the Virgin. We have been made sharers in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share our humanity." 208

205 Cf. Mt 18:3-4.
206 Jn 3 7; 1:13; 1:12; cf. Mt 23:12.
207 Cf. Gal 4:19.
208 LH , Antiphon I of Evening Prayer for January 1st.

St. John of the Cross, pray for us to understand God better so that we can love and serve Him better, and let our small selves be subject to Him as creature to Creator ought to be. amen.


Norene Moskalski M. wrote: "hi! :) sorry for the delay...
ok, read the first article...noticing St. Thomas Aquinas is mentioned along with a quote relating to the issue from this discussion...the rest of the article doesn't r..."


I think you are arriving at the right answer to your original question, M. You are correct--a deeper understanding does take time, but it is time well spent.

My perception is that this was a metaphor: We will become someone who has the qualities of God. It is similar to using a simile by saying, "You will become like God." Metaphors and similes are literary elements, but historically and biblically, they were also used to help the early uneducated populace understand some difficult concepts. Once we put the biblical quotation in context with the period in which it was originally written, we can ask, "What method of instruction was being used--stories, poetry, proverbs, histories, etc., and what literary elements were being used to help understanding?" Rather than read the phrase as a direct truth by today's standards of instruction, I think we are correct to read it as it was meant for people's instruction nearly 2000 years ago. My vote goes for metaphor.


John Greally "Like unto God" - is not the same as to become God.

"Grafted on to the Godhead" - is not to become that which we are grafted to, but it is to be of the same sap, essence, blood.

This docking of the insufficient with the All Sufficient cannot leave us subsumed, because He wants us to remain not only who we are, but to be perfected in who He intended us to be. More us than ever, not less. But not God.


message 7: by Zelie (last edited Oct 19, 2014 01:02PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Zelie "Do we become God?" The answer to your question is a definite: NO! You are correct in identifying the fact that John Paul 2 preaches the doctrine of the antichrist, that is, he preached that “man is God.” The problem with your conclusion is that you assert that this is Catholic doctrine. This is not so. The truth is that JP2 was no pope. He was a heretical non-catholic antipope. There have been over 40 antipopes in Church history. In short, an antipope is a false claimant to the papacy. It is a man who would claim to be a “pope”, but in fact would not hold the office. Before going further I would like to quote one example of what a true Pope has to say that crushes what antipope JP2 preached in his heretical non-catholic “catechism”--which taught many other heresies besides the one you mentioned. Pope Pius X, E Supremi Apostolatus (#5), Oct. 4, 1903: “While, on the other hand, and this according to the same apostle is the distinguishing mark of Antichrist, man has with infinite temerity put himself in the place of God…”

Most Holy Family Monastery has actually produced videos exposing JP2 for what he really is: an antipope and the antichrist predicted in the book of the Apocalypse/Revelation. For the Proof see these videos: The Antichrist Revealed: The Beast that Was, and Is Not, Has Returned- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPs7j...

"Saint" John Paul II Exposed-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODV1S...)

“St.” John Paul II’s Heresies- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAQ27...)


The truth is that there has not been a true pope reigning in Rome since the death of Pope Pius XII who died in 1958. The fact that the city of Rome would lose the Catholic faith at the end of the world and leave the Catholic Church through apostasy is prophesied in the book of Apocalypse/Rev., by the Blessed Virgin Mary, and by past true Popes.

Our Lady of La Salette—a Church approved apparition—said, “Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the anti-christ, the Church will be in Eclipse.”

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (#15), June 29, 1896: “… it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside the Church can command in the Church.”

We are now living through the great apostasy that was predicted to take place in the last days. Christ says that “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?” –Luke 18:8. He also says, “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.”-Matthew 24:24. What you must understand is that the Catholic Church cannot defect. It cannot teach error to souls for it is the Immaculate Bride of Christ always faithful to His Doctrine until the end of time. The Catholic Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ and He founded it upon St. Peter. The Whore of Babylon is NOT the Catholic Church. The Whore of Babylon is in actuality the counterfeit-“Catholic Church” that takes over the Vatican in last days. The Whore is a false sect where a false “hierarchy” dress exteriorly like the Catholic Church, but inwardly is fraudulent, headed by antipopes, and devoid of the Apostolic faith. The mission of these antipopes is clear, it is to try and destroy the Catholic faith—which is impossible—to try and deceive people claiming to be Catholics into accepting the false religion these antipopes promote. The whore of Babylon seeks to be in communion with every false religion of the devil. She spews heresy and apostasy daily and loves to spread religious indifferentism, satanic syncretism, that man is “God”, that people can be saved in false religions, etc. Those wicked false doctrines are solemnly condemned by the true Popes as heresy and apostasy that places anyone who accepts those heresies obstinately as outside the Catholic Church. It is crucial that you investigate Traditional Catholicism which is the true faith of Jesus Christ. If you want to save your soul you need to convert to it. Please visit the website www.vaticancatholic.com for all the information on how to convert to the Traditional Catholic faith. I also wanted to leave you with some proofs that the Bible proves the teachings of the Catholic Church. Here are just a couple videos on the topic:The Key to John 3:16-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyXQS...)

Can a Christian Lose Salvation? - 1 Corinthians-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_4RF...)

Is the King James Bible Infallible?-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUTlv...)

There is also a whole book on this topic called the Bible Proves the Teachings of the Catholic Church by Brother Peter Dimond. Brother Peter even uses the KJV of the Bible to prove the point. Here is the link to the page from the website I mentioned refuting Protestantism and showing some parts of the book - http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.co....

If you are honest you will see the evidence only points to one conclusion, that the Catholic Church indeed is the one true Church of Jesus Christ and the Bible proves it. Unfortunately, for many people it doesn’t matter how many facts you show them that refute their false position, they simply choose not to embrace the truth and refuse to admit their error and follow the evidence because they are of bad will. Debating with protestants and false-"Catholics" is similar to debating evolutionists. When you present evolutionists with the evidence that “evolution” is false and is unscientific, often times even after you prove that life is irreducibly complex even in DNA and Proteins and therefore evolution is IMPOSSIBLE, many will still reject the truth and still argue that “evolution” is true because they are liars and of satan. I hope that will not be the case with you.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess.8, Nov.22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9), June 29, 1896: "The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium."

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, Dec. 18, 1208: "By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved."


John Harold-Rysavy Pieper Apotheosis--doesn't work


Jason No, we do not become Gods ourselves but are adopted sons and daughters.


message 10: by Pieter (last edited Jan 28, 2016 09:14AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Pieter God is so wonderful but also very mysterious, He created us knowing us "before the foundation of the world" and yet the more we seek to know Him, the more mysterious He becomes - His ways are above our ways!

I've read this discussion with comments that intrigued me, and this is my opinion on the whole matter. I'm not so much concerned with becoming 'god' as I am being with Him. While ultimately I absolutely desire to be with Him at the end of all things, life as Christ showed us was being with God in the here and now. In the small duties and details of life. Seeking Him with all our hearts (even if it is a human heart fraught with all kinds of imperfections and maladies),

And I think that if i desire to be with Him now - to know Him and to trust Him, then I do believe that He will honor that and draw close to me. I also believe that the closer I am to Him, the more like Him I will be. So in the end, to me, being 'god' is not so much about me, but more about my (your) relationship to Him. I can not be a god if it weren't for the God who made me, and I couldn't know Him except for Him first knowing me.

What I am and what I will be, God only knows. Lucifer wanted to be 'like God' for selfish reasons and motives - I want to be like Him because I desire Him only - so that His light can shine through me and others will see it and praise Him.

'Being God' to me means to be in every sense of the word 'crucified'. Crucified to myself and all that the world has that would keep me from it. Do we become god? I guess only time will tell.


Carline Francois No, but it is good to listen to God.
Wisdom has all the answers.


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