Twilight (The Twilight Saga, #1) Twilight discussion


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On vampires of Stephenie Meyer

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whoufflestories Aren't vampires suppose to be the undead? It seems like Twilight vamps don't die to become vampires which doesn't really make them undead, right?


Willow The heart stops. Seems to fit the definition pretty well, even if their "aversion" to sunlight is merely cosmetic.


message 3: by April (last edited Sep 11, 2013 08:54AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

April Yeah the heart stops beating for 3 days, because that's how long it usually takes for the transition to work, if I'm remembering correctly (it's been a while since I've read the books), therefore the people who are vampires do die in order to become vampires. And I don't care if people don't like it, I admire what Stephanie Meyer did, and how she created an entirely new species of vampires, tho people don't like them, you have to admit that it was pretty creative to do such a thing :)

Although personally I like LJ Smiths vampires better than Stephanie Meyers. I know that they are completely different and I shouldn't compare them, but I am OBSESSED with the Vampire Diaries and I LOVE Stefan and especially Damon!!! They are both amazing characters. Elena in the books kind of annoyed me though. I also did research and LJ Smith was the first person to write a love triangle between a human and 2 other supernatural creatures. I love that she was the first to think of it and I absolutely just love the Vampire Diaries!! But yeah, that's just a little side now and I decided I would state that opinion.


Carol I LOVED Stephanie Meyer's vamps! They are usually portrayed as being sooo evil but you can love the Twilight species :)


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

I suppose they can be counted as dead if they no longer age.
Personally I wasn't a fan of the vampires she created.

The only part of her vampires that I can count as original or creative was the sparkling thing. However, I personally view that the sparkling was too much. Good for her for trying to think outside of the box, but I personally didn't like that feature. I'm sorry to say I can't even give a good reason as to why, I just didn't care for it.

I found her vampires to be unoriginal, personally. There were many portrayed as good and beautiful before hers (Anne Rice, L.J. Smith). I'm not saying that she copied them at all, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that her idea was not the first of it's kind, or inherently different. Granted, most ideas nowadays aren't unheard of after so many centuries of books being written.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh well, at least it's original, if stupid.


message 7: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Brooke wrote: "Oh well, at least it's original, if stupid."

good little point there. i think the vamp in VD are bit better, then the ones in twi..


Onome Etisioro I love, love, love what Stephenie did to her own vampire species. And I love the books, mostly Twilight and Breaking Dawn. Vampires that sparkle in the sun? Is that ingenous or what? I really don‘t care what others think, I love the vampires she created and I‘m a huge fan of her Twilight and Breaking Dawn franchise. Completely enticing.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Onome wrote: "I love, love, love what Stephenie did to her own vampire species. And I love the books, mostly Twilight and Breaking Dawn. Vampires that sparkle in the sun? Is that ingenous or what? I really don‘t..."

How come you rated it one star then? I'm not judging, simply curious.


whoufflestories Because, from twilight camps they are awake through the change. I don't know much about Stephenie's transformation details (the science of it) but, to me I figured that people aren't conscious when they die O.o

It's a strange thought to process.


message 11: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Kat wrote: "Because, from twilight camps they are awake through the change. I don't know much about Stephenie's transformation details (the science of it) but, to me I figured that people aren't conscious when..."

when reading and watching the whole twi saga that on there, it was quite interesting. but as for the sparkeing thing, i didn't catch 2 well. cause i thought some vamp can't even go in sun, or if they do do they just burn up or do they just sparkle, that in movie?


Claire Birrell I quite like Stephanie's take on the vampire. In a way her vampires are undead- and who can say if we are conscious of he fact when we die. Her vampires were quite sensual. I love horror and a lot of horror fans I know go in a rage over these books and films, but I see them as dark fantasy not horror. Her idea of vampires is not entirely original- i.e Anne Rice, but she did give them her own unique twist.


Marilyn Onome wrote: "I love, love, love what Stephenie did to her own vampire species. And I love the books, mostly Twilight and Breaking Dawn. Vampires that sparkle in the sun? Is that ingenous or what? I really don‘t..."

I love a good sarcastic post.


message 14: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Marilyn wrote: "Onome wrote: "I love, love, love what Stephenie did to her own vampire species. And I love the books, mostly Twilight and Breaking Dawn. Vampires that sparkle in the sun? Is that ingenous or what? ..."

ok


Onome Etisioro Nicol de Angelo, I‘m new to Goodreads, and despite my love for the first and last installment of the Twilight saga, I really haven‘t had the time to rate them. Doing other stuff over here and I can‘t even keep track of whatever books I rate, mostly because I don‘t care too much for ratings. Yet. Curiosity satisfied?


Renae Richardson Onome wrote: "I love, love, love what Stephenie did to her own vampire species. And I love the books, mostly Twilight and Breaking Dawn. Vampires that sparkle in the sun? Is that ingenous or what? I really don‘t..."

That is funny since traditionally sunlight is supposed to burn vampires and in some cases cause them to disintegrate.


Renae Richardson They are definitely non-traditional vampires in every sense of the word. They are non-traditional in their characteristics and their character. I think it is nice to depart from the ordinary every now and then and to look at a subject matter a bit differently. I think it was a valiant effort. I can't say that I absolutely love her take on vampires but it was different. Who knew that the dead could mate with the living and create a half-breed. It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and create a half-breed. After all we have a zombie human love story.


Jessica Renae wrote: "That is funny since traditionally sunlight is supposed to burn vampires and in some cases cause them to disintegrate. "

The burning in the sun is a quiet modern thing for vampires. The actual traditional vampires didn't burn up in the sun.


message 19: by Jessica (last edited Oct 02, 2013 03:37AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jessica Renae wrote: "It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and create a half-breed. After all we have a zombie human love story. "

I don't know how to put this lightly without sounding mean or like I think you're slow. But zombies are dead. Zombies are like the brother of vampires, only worse because they're what people back then would think a vampire was, only they eat people, not drink blood. Zombies can't have sex, they're walking decomposing corpses.

You mention Warm Bodies, but forget that in it(view spoiler)


message 20: by MiMi (new) - rated it 5 stars

MiMi Jesse wrote: "Renae wrote: "It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and create a half-breed. After all we have a zombie human love story. "

I don't..."

The point of Twilight isnt the vampires. it is what the vampires and bella and edward represent. That is why i like the book sooooo much. And zombies are totally different. zobies are a disease. and totally irrelevant to vampires.


message 21: by A.C. (new) - rated it 5 stars

A.C. Kavich What would you all consider to be the cleverest innovation in the vampire genre in the last few decades?

Aside from glimmering in the sunlight, that is!


message 22: by Jessica (last edited Sep 14, 2013 11:46AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jessica MiMi wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Renae wrote: "It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and create a half-breed. After all we have a zombie human love sto..."

Vampirism is a disease too. It's a virus that gets into you, changes all your cells and very being, and to complete it it has to kill you. Just like with zombies.


Marilyn Jesse wrote: "Renae wrote: "That is funny since traditionally sunlight is supposed to burn vampires and in some cases cause them to disintegrate. "

The burning in the sun is a quiet modern thing for vampires. T..."


Thank you. So very much. I was beginning to think that people on here didn't know the difference between Meyer's vampires, traditional vampires and the modern Hollywood fabricated vampires.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

I honestly can't see why people are putting Meyer's vampires into a different league than any other vampires. What makes them so different? The fact that they sparkle? The fact that they're good? That they don't drink human blood? I haven't read all the vampire literature out there but I'm fairly certain there are other books based upon good and vegetarian vampires.


Jessica Nicole di Angelo wrote: "I honestly can't see why people are putting Meyer's vampires into a different league than any other vampires. What makes them so different? The fact that they sparkle? The fact that they're good? T..."

This I can answer. It's because by all rights, her vampires cannot be called as such. They're more like fae-like beings than actual vampires. The only thing that directly links her vampires to the term is that they drink blood. Nothing else about them represents what we know to be a vampire. It's not that because we're so stuck on what we consider to be vampire that we refuse to see them as vampires, it's just that there's only so much artistic license one can use before they create a whole new being. Adding to that, Meyer barely researched vampires, further putting insult to injury.


Melanie Tikalsky While I'm not a fan of the fact that her vampires sparkle.. there are some creepy factors to her vampires. Yes they die. Their heart does not beat after the 3 day transformation. They cannot be killed by sunlight or silver or even a steak through the heart. True Bloods vamps have many more weaknesses than SM's vamps do. Does this make SM Vampires more like immortals than other vamps out there? I just really wish they wouldn't sparkle!


Renae Richardson In regards to the vampire versus zombie issue. I remember a time when according to lore and legend they could not reproduce,vampires that is. It was antithetical to their nature. Yes since the earlier lore there have been had breeds such as blade. I concede to that point. However, if a vampire in theory cam have intercourse and conceive a baby why couldn't a zombie. Unlike a vampire or like a vampire a zombie s driven by pure animal instinct meaning the instinct to feed. if sex is considered to be a primal instinct why couldn't in theory a zombie have intercourse and procreate. Vampires do not have blood coursing through their veins but if a female vamp could conceive so should a zombie. By all practical means both a male vampire and a male zombie should be sterile.

In regardsto warm bodies, yes the zombie became human, in theory there could have been a point when he was in transition and slept with the girl and thus she would conceive a hybrid a oddspring with the viral mutation.


Renae Richardson Jesse wrote: "Renae wrote: "That is funny since traditionally sunlight is supposed to burn vampires and in some cases cause them to disintegrate. "

The burning in the sun is a quiet modern thing for vampires. T..."


yes vampires drink blood while zombies consume the victim. However, the vampire just as the zombie is driven by primal instinct. The vampire like the zombie does not have a beating heart and for all practical purposes neither shoud have a fuctionng brain based on basic anatomy and physiology. Both should be sterile, incapable of producing living sperm. Even more so the sperm of the undead regardless of whether it be vamp or zombie should not be able to fertilize a living egg let alone implant within the human body. The hunan body would recognize it as foreign and respond by attacking it. This is all basic human anatomy. We are also taking into account the boundaries of imaiginatin.
Vamps must develop self-control to avoid draining their victims and killing them. If the vamp can do this the person becomes one of them. Where does the self-control stem from. Traditionally the vamp has to have some use for the individual in order to control themselves so this suggest higher level thinking but how so?

Zombies are also driven by instinct an if not stopped they will totally consume their victims, and thus the victim cannot come back unless the zombies eating patterns interrupted. However, zombies still have sensory perception. They can see, hear, feel, and smell. In recent zombie presentations, zombies have exhibited high level thinking. They organize and strategize. Given that why couldn't they procreate or have sex if vamps can. Sex is an instinctual drive if the artists or imagineers have the zombies evolve relative to reasoning capacity, why couldn't their instinctual drives evolve. Remember in warm bodies for that boy to even make a choice to save that girls life while still being a zombie indicates higher level thinking. To overcome instinctual drives one has to possess the power of reasoning and the ability to suppress a urge. He did.

I really don't believe I am dumb or stupid rather highly intelligent.


message 29: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Renae wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Renae wrote: "That is funny since traditionally sunlight is supposed to burn vampires and in some cases cause them to disintegrate. "

The burning in the sun is a quiet modern thing f..."


interesting to know about. just a thought what is the diff between both vamp that in the Twi and the vamp that in VD? one just sparlkes and the others just burn under the sun, if they don't have their special ring, that they have type of thing? in VD the vamp feed off both humans, and blood bag in order to surfive type of thing..


Jessica Renae wrote: "Remember in warm bodies for that boy to even make a choice to save that girls life while still being a zombie indicates higher level thinking. To overcome instinctual drives one has to possess the power of reasoning and the ability to suppress a urge. He did."

He did it because R had at that point just eaten the brains of her boyfriend. That's pretty much the only reason why he did it.

" However, if a vampire in theory cam have intercourse and conceive a baby why couldn't a zombie."

Because a zombie is a decomposing corpse. Who really wants to have sex with that? A vampire at least can have different tales where they are able to, a zombie however is a decomposing corpse that is made up of rotting flesh. I REALLY don't think I should have to spell out zombie and why they cannot have sex. I always thought this was common knowledge :/.

"Zombies are also driven by instinct an if not stopped they will totally consume their victims, and thus the victim cannot come back unless the zombies eating patterns interrupted."

Or, if you're going with RE, if they bite you or scratch you, you're infected and must have the antidote before you become a zombie. Or you're infected via airborne viruses and must have the antidote before you're infected and become a zombie. If you go with TWD then even if you die by normal means, you still come back as a zombie.


message 31: by Renae (last edited Sep 15, 2013 11:47AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Renae Richardson You are mixing up what I said Jesse. The question is not who would want to because. I can say that about vampires despite your dressing them up to be beautiful. They are dead and soulless and there really are no niceties to them either so that's opinion. I could say who would want to have sex with a vampire. Stop being close minded.

I said if a vampire can conceive giving biological restrictions why can't zombies. After all, all of this stems from someone's imagination. There is no more logical premise for a vampire to have offspring as there is for a zombie giving the stretch of imagination. Vampires were not always able to conceive in lore so the ideology has been stretched in all directions so why can't zombies.
I guess my stretch of imagination is wrong an unfounded. That sounds like the statement of a bully who is condescending to say the least. You accept that an undead vampire is able to procreate against rationale but reject the fact that a zombie would because they are gross and decaying. What does looks have to do with anything.

I see because they are decomposing they would more likely be unable to perform because they are decomposing and would lose body parts is that the basis of your theory. Sterile is sterile and a dead womb is a dead womb. You are arguing desire as a supportive factor and incapability in regard to loose limbs. By the way since a vampire does not have a beating heart or a working circulatory system a male vampire should be impotent or unable to perform circulation of blood is necessary for the act as well as the transfer of bodily secretions. You are again based on someone else's vivid but unsupported imaginary claims. I can do the same.

In regards to zombies, not all are decomposing. There was a story written some time back titled serpent and the rainbow where voodoo priest and their counter parts made individuals zombies by drilling holes in their head and filling the cavity with some substance. In this instance the zombie was not decayed but simply a soulless body that could ambulate. This book was based on zombification by Hatian vodoo priest. I guess based on your linear thinking of zombies this would not be a zombie. This really makes your comment regarding whether you really have to explain something to me seem really condescending.

If you can not carry on an intelligent and engaging conversation without insult there is no need to respond to me or my post. I am beyond that. I refuse to negate someone else's theory based on imagined plots and concept it's simply absurd. I simply present a possibility in lieu of current extensions of lore that could be applicable to other characters and explained just as well. There are no limits to imagination.

I stick by my original statement. If there is a story where sterile vampires can procreate irregardless of the ronantcism aspect I am awaiting a story where this will be depicted to happen with zombies as subject matter.


Jessica Renae wrote: "You are mixing up what I said Jesse. The question is not who would want to because. I can say that about vampires despite your dressing them up to be beautiful. They are dead and soulless and there really are no niceties to them either so that's opinion. I could say who would want to have sex with a vampire. Stop being close minded. "

Decomposing corpses. I'm open-minded but there's only so far I can go before it's illegal and repulsive because it's a walking, rotting, smelly corpse. I'm not dressing vampires up to be beautiful, i'm dressing down your image of zombies to show you that they are not anything more than decomposing bodies.

"I said if a vampire can conceive giving biological restrictions why can't zombies."

To which I replied that there are ways possible because though they are undead, they are not rotting corpses where there is no possibility of sex happening, for reproductive purposes or not.

"You accept that an undead vampire is able to procreate against rationale but reject the fact that a zombie would because they are gross and decaying. What does looks have to do with anything."

At this point I can't tell if you're serious or not. It is not looks, it's because they are DECAYING. They have no possible way of being able to have sex because they are decaying.

"By the way since a vampire does not have a beating heart or a working circulatory system a male vampire should be impotent or unable to perform circulation of blood is necessary for the act as well as the transfer of bodily secretions."

I am aware of this. I am in one hundred percent agreement on you with this. However, because there is more than one category of vampire, there are ways for a vampire to be able to be neither sterile nor infertile. There's only one way a zombie can be dressed up though and that's as a walking, rotting corpse. Anything else is a dead body with preservatives that still cannot have sex nor reproduce.


Kirby Jesse wrote: something that completely spoils an unrelated movie and most likely book- message 20

well, fuck. I really wanted to read that book. :( I could understand (a little bit- the spoiler still could have been tagged)if this were a Warm Bodies discussion, but...it's not. could you please fix that before you spoil it for someone else?


Jessica Kirby wrote: "well, fuck. I really wanted to read that book. :( I could understand (a little bit- the spoiler still could have been tagged)if this were a Warm Bodies discussion, but...it's not. could you please fix that before you spoil it for someone else? "

Well go read the book and stop whining to me about it. I said in that post that I don't know how the book ends, so what I said only gave you knowledge on the movie. And even though I spoiled the end, that shouldn't stop you from doing either. I don't understand this "you spoiled me" concept. Maybe it's because of how I see it. But to me it's like Christmas a bit. Even if I know what I'll get, it doesn't spoil Christmas for me. Why should knowing what happens lessen the experience you have while reading? Does it make it not worthwhile anymore?


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

I think the vampires are great! Normally vampires sleep in the day, burn in the sun, die when they have a wooden stake in their hearts, etc.... But Stephanie could create a whole new species. Vampires that sparkle instead op dying, they don't have to sleep, wood can't kill them, etc... I also love the vamps of TVD more but still, Stephanie did a great job ;)


Kirby Jesse wrote: "I don't understand this "you spoiled me" concept."

Really? It doesn't bother you so it's unfathomable? Okay, sorry for "whining."


message 37: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Anshita wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Kirby wrote: "well, fuck. I really wanted to read that book. :( I could understand (a little bit- the spoiler still could have been tagged)if this were a Warm Bodies discussion, but....."

i would think that, almost everyone does has some point there..


Jessica Kirby wrote: "Jesse wrote: "I don't understand this "you spoiled me" concept."

Really? It doesn't bother you so it's unfathomable? Okay, sorry for "whining.""


It's not 'unfathomable'. That's a real big exaggeration from me just saying I don't understand it. I just don't understand it, simple as that.


Jessica Anshita wrote: "It makes the experience worthwhile but less so because while reading a book you're so excited about how its gonna end and you keep guessing and stuff but when you already know it, its like following a path to a well known destination, which is kinda less exciting ya know. "

That is how I felt about Twilight, but that's because it was extremely predictable. Knowing something about the movie shouldn't set Kirby against reading the book, or feeling spoiled because I said how the movie ended. The movie and the book are two totally different things, with a list of differences. I truly don't know how the book ends, and because it's different from the movie I can't see it ending the same way that the movie did.


Stephanie I liked what they did with the last movie, it had me MAD in the movie theaters at first. It was a great twist that gave the movie a great and unexpected ending.


message 41: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Stephanie wrote: "I liked what they did with the last movie, it had me MAD in the movie theaters at first. It was a great twist that gave the movie a great and unexpected ending."

yea it was quite ineresting how they end, with Alice little vision of Ren when she was older, type of thing. but i think the vision with the battle, was not 2 bad.


message 42: by Nova (last edited Nov 10, 2013 12:58AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Nova  J. friend:I can't wait to see Breaking Dawn Part2!!
me:(puts book down and looks at friend) yeah sure
friend:I've been waiting for forever to see Edward on screen
me: Edward? he's the one that glowed right, in the first movie?
friend:*nods*
me: he's the vampire, right?
random guy: actually, their not even vampires they're faeries....
friend: O.o
me: :)


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Jocelyne wrote: "friend:I can't wait to see Breaking Dawn Part2!!
me:(puts book down and looks at friend) yeah sure
friend:I've been waiting for forever to see Edward on screen
me: Edward? he's the one that glowed ..."

Go, random guy!


Rel8tivity Renae wrote: "Who knew that the dead could mate with the living and create a half-breed. It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and create a half-breed. After all we have a zombie human love story..."

But the problem with this is, when SM made her vampires beings of living rock, she also made them incapable of any further growth or change. This stasis extends to the cellular level, explaining why Alice's hair never grew back. This means SM's vampires are STERILE.

RenFailmee should not exist. SM broke her rules and the story by pushing her into it.


message 45: by Olivia (new)

Olivia Rel8tivity wrote: "Renae wrote: "Who knew that the dead could mate with the living and create a half-breed. It almost makes me wonder when someone will come out with a story where a zombie can mate with a human and c..."

ok


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