Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (Harry Potter, #1) Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone question


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J.K Rowling plagiarized off The Lord Of The Rings And Narnia!!!!
Michael Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:19PM ) Sep 02, 2013 12:06PM
I was watching the lord of the rings the other day and saw that jk rowling copied many many things.These things being identical between the lord of the rings and harry potter,so I was thinking that jk rowling plagiarized from it.And CS Lewis author of Narnia is one of his favorite authors.
Here are some examples:

The Ring/Horcrux
The Ring having a piece of the dark lords soul/Horcruxes carry a piece of the dark lords soul
It's extremely hard to destroy a ring/It's extremely hard to destroy a horcrux(Ok let's just say the ring and horcruxes are literally the exact same thing)
Ring makes dark Lord immortal/Horcrux makes dark Lord immortal
Dark Lord/Dark Lord(I mean honestly jk had to take the same word pathetic)
The dead bodies that Frodo sees in the lake/The resurrected bodies harry sees in the half blood Prince
Galadriel future seeing bowl/Pensieve
Sam/Ron
Merry and Pippin/The Weasly brothers
Gandalf/Dumbledore(This has bothered me for years JK completely copied this character to a t)
A Dumbledore is a creature in the lord of the rings
Destroying ring,destroys dark Lord/Same with Voldemort with destroying horcruxes
The spiders
Wormtongue/Wormtail
Éowyn/Ginny
Ringwraiths,Dementors
The council of elrond/The order of the Phoenix
Frodo/Harry
Merry saying about his friends "They cannot fight this war on your own"/Scrimgour saying to harry "You cannot fight this war on your own Mr potter"
Harry being a horcrux/Frodos behavior with the ring
Gandalfs light with his staff/Lumos
Quest for the horcruxes/Quest for the ring
Jrr Tolkien lived in the UK so does rowling
THREE HEADED DOG IN THE HOBBIT,THREE HEADED DOG IN HARRY POTTER
Anglo Saxon dining hall in rohan,the great hall
Gandalf battling the fire balrog in the dwarf mine,Dumbledore defeating the dead bodies in a cave/mine
I AM ABSOLUTLY DISGUSTED THAT JK ROWLIBG LITERALLY COPIED AND PAST GANDALF TO CREATE DUMBLEDORE,A DUMBLEDORE IS EVEN A CREATURE IN LOTR
Gandalf mentoring Frodo,DUMBLEDORE mentoring harry

People always talk about how Cassandra Clare plagiarized harry potter which I can't see,but people never say that jk rowling directly plagiarized the lord of the rings and made billions off it,for shame.



deleted member Sep 05, 2013 07:15AM   9 votes
I am a Tolkienphile and a Potterhead, before you ask, and I'm going to prove all these things wrong.

The Ring/Horcrux = The Ring is nothing like the Horcrux. The Ring is a powerful, old object, the Horcruxes were just Horcruxes at most 50 years before Harry. The Ring was always powerful, the Horcruxes only became so after Voldemort. The Dark Lord poured his hate and anger into the Ring, not his soul as it was in Harry Potter.
Dark Lord/Dark Lord(I mean honestly jk had to take the same word pathetic) = Dark Lord is common in fiction. See here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Lor... Dark Lord is also used in Star Wars, DC Comics...And the idea of someone whose name isn't spoken and the entire Dark Lord archetype comes from religious writings where something is used in place of Satan.
The dead bodies that Frodo sees in the lake/The resurrected bodies harry sees in the half blood Prince = Zombies? Seriously? Undead beings have been used in fiction for ages. See Dracula, Frankenstein....Long before Tolkien, dead bodies were rose using witchcraft.
Galadriel future seeing bowl/Pensieve = The term is scrying, and I think you'll find it wasn't invented by Tolkien. Also, Galadriel's bowl saw the future and the Pensieve saw the past only if you had the memories.
Sam/Ron = The sidekick has been used in books for centuries.
Merry and Pippin/The Weasly brothers = Merry and Pippin weren't even related, for crying out loud! Where do you get the comparison?
Gandalf/Dumbledore(This has bothered me for years JK completely copied this character to a t) = And Gandalf is based on Odin, and Merlin, and probably Dumbledore has too. They aren't that similar.
A Dumbledore is a creature in the lord of the rings = Dumbledore is an Old English word for bumblebee, intelligent one.
The spiders = Spiders? Seriously? I have nothing to say about this one.
Wormtongue/Wormtail = *facepalm*
Éowyn/Ginny = Eowyn is nothing like Ginny.
Ringwraiths,Dementors = Dementors suck happiness out of people and their souls, were never human and never actually joined Voldemort as far as we know. Ringwraiths had Rings of Power, were once human and were servants of Sauron.
The council of elrond/The order of the Phoenix = And the Council of Elrond has many similarities to the Olympian council. Twelve main members and various others. The Order of the Phoenix is an example of a rebel group. It bears next to no similarities to Greek myths.
Frodo/Harry = The hero is an archetypal part of the book.
Merry saying about his friends "They cannot fight this war on your own"/Scrimgour saying to harry "You cannot fight this war on your own Mr potter" = When did Scrimgeour say that? In the movies?
Harry being a horcrux/Frodos behavior with the ring = Harry never actually behaved oddly because of Voldemort's soul, he only got special powers,
Gandalfs light with his staff/Lumos = And they're both just elaborate torches.
Quest for the horcruxes/Quest for the ring = Wow. Quests! They happen in almost every fantasy book ever written.
Jrr Tolkien lived in the UK so does rowling = And so Rick Riordan plagiarized Stephanie Meyer because they both live in America.
THREE HEADED DOG IN THE HOBBIT,THREE HEADED DOG IN HARRY POTTER = Greek Mythology featured a dog named Cerberus who guarded the Underworld. Not exactly an original concept on Tolkien's behalf.
Anglo Saxon dining hall in rohan,the great hall = Wow. Dining halls. Because that's such an original idea.
Gandalf battling the fire balrog in the dwarf mine,Dumbledore defeating the dead bodies in a cave/mine = It was a cave, and they were both very different.
I AM ABSOLUTLY DISGUSTED THAT JK ROWLIBG LITERALLY COPIED AND PAST GANDALF TO CREATE DUMBLEDORE,A DUMBLEDORE IS EVEN A CREATURE IN LOTR = *laughs* Copy and paste? Literally? You mean figuratively, because where would she copy and paste from? Putting the book in front of a scanner and copying it onto a computer?
Gandalf mentoring Frodo,DUMBLEDORE mentoring harry = The mentor is a cliche. See Merlin.

11098577
Somerandom May I say, sir or madam, your response was just wonderful.
Dec 16, 2013 11:58PM · flag
deleted user I'm a girl. Thank you, though. ...more
Dec 25, 2013 07:24AM · flag

With all respect intended Michael most of these are tropes commonly used, I do not see a resemblance by between Eowyn and Ginny myself, the Ring and the Horcrux was a homage, Dark Lord the same. As for the Pensieve and Galadriel's seeing bowl I fancy myself a author and was considering something very alike to both until I remembered them.
Gandalf and Dumbledore are hardly the only wise-wizards on the market so I think that reconsideration or at least a more moderate view might be merited.


Tomás (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:32PM ) Sep 02, 2013 01:29PM   1 vote
People, I'm just new to the group.. And I don´t want to sound arrogant, but you can say the same things about every other fantasy tale..

Tolkien (which is the best fantasy writer I've read, based a lot of it's characters on the Arturic Cycle (Knights of the Round Table) and Beowulf's legend.. As well as the Apostles' Creed, which is even more evident on Lewis's Narnia, and both were good friends..

- You can find similarities to the The Ring/Horcruxes or the Dark Lord on several mythologies and pagans beliefs, like the Russian's Koschei..

Dead bodies came back to life zombified are found on voodoo stories as well as on Scheherazade's One Thousand and One Nights.

- Witches, druids and fairies have been seeing the future on water surfaces long before Galadriel or Dumbledore's Pensieve.

- The value of friendship has been tested long before Sam/Ron, and Merry and Pippin aren't relatives as Fred and George, the first is a Brandybuck and the second a Tuk, they are very different as well.

- Gandalf/Dumbledore is similar to Merlin, Odin, Finnish Wainamoinen or the Greek demigod Chiron, the teacher archetype is similar in every culture

- Voldemort is alike Sauron, but Sauron was a Vaniar, second to the Maiar Morgoth, the true dark lord.. (Sounds similar to Aesir/Vanir from Nordic Mythos don't?)

- Ungoliant is not the same as Aragog, it's nature is darker and has no master, Grima bares no treachery as Wormtail does.. Neither Éowyn's profile is comparable to Ginny's

- Ringwraiths were humans from Angmar,Dementors never were.. The Council of Elrond is different than The order..

- Frodo is an archetypical antihero, Harry is not

What I'm trying to say is that all fantasy cames from the same place.. Men's imagination.. And the archetypes build there are then similar. Most fantasy writers do a lot of research, on history and mithologies, so the worlds they built are compatible, and so their characters are alike.

I've read several times all Tolkien's biblio and I've read Harry Potter a couple of times, they share similarities, but Rowling is not a plagiarist


OK well, most of me thinks troll but here's my opinion regardless. I agree there are some very suspicious similarities. For example:

Harry had a table - Frodo had a table
Harry ate a meal - Frodo ate a meal
Harry was male - Frodo was male
Harry had friends - Frodo has friends

With all these similarities, I'm amazed that nobody in a position of authority had taken offence to her reproduction and taken JKR to court! I guess you're the only one smart enough to have noticed!

Sarcasm aside, you could take any two books and find such similarities. If you bother to do your research, JKR uses a lot of different themes and ideas from all kinds of sources. This concept has been hashed over since JKR became popular, it isn't an original debate. In addition, most books follow a basic formula to give it some semblance of familiarity to the reader which generally helps to encourage people to keep reading! Back to the drawing board for you I'm afraid.


Never mind my previous comment I call troll and I think we should just leave this thread alone


Sorrel (last edited Sep 05, 2013 09:18AM ) Sep 02, 2013 12:39PM   0 votes
It is really rather weird when you line them up like that but I don't think she should be ashamed because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different audience and it has many original qualities. Quite often these sorts of stories follow the same sort of plot, don't they?


Rowenna of the Hawkswood. wrote: "Please could we keep this civil? I know all of us are trying but a little moderation would not hurt."

I'm being civil,I'm not insulting anyone,just saying facts


plagiarism is too strong a word for this. Most authors do not create every point of their story from nothing. even Tolkien took something from those before him. The idea of magical light has existed prior to Tolkien. As to the fact that they both liked in the United Kingdom I do not understand what your point on that is.


Having read all of the books listed, I hardly think so. I have the Lord of the Rings practically by heart, I've read it so often. I don't think you can characterize the one ring as a horcrux. It just doesn't fit. The ring did not have a piece of his soul, but a large part of his POWER - which is an entirely different thing. Sauron was an immortal to being with, like Gandalf.
Wizards in all of history have carried staffs and done magic with them.
The list just doesn't work at all - there are certain literary conventions in all books - no plagiarizing involved. CS Lewis who wrote Narnia was a great friend of Tolkien, who wrote Lord of the Rings. In fact, he did borrow some ideas from Tolkien who read chapters and parts of his book to his fellow Inklings. But Tolkien also got a few ideas from Lewis - and they both wrote basically different kinds of books.
I don't believe Gandolf mentored Frodo so much as sort of kept an eye on him. There was not the really close personal, teaching relationship between Dumbledore and Harry.
Galadriel's "mirror" shows possible futures, past history, interesting tidbits. The pensieve of Dumbledore holds his thoughts and memories, or the thoughts and memories of other people and are used to give a clearer perspective. Galadriel's mirror is not so clear and will show you things you ask to see, that you do not know - totally unlike the pensieve which is actual memories.


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 03:18PM ) Sep 02, 2013 03:18PM   0 votes
Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Oh yeah, did you know that Narnia is basically the Bible in fantasy form? You want to accuse JK of plagiarism then you better stick to your guns and add Narnia to th..."

Do I care about the bible? Of course not but unfortunately I know about it.


Maggie (last edited Sep 02, 2013 02:57PM ) Sep 02, 2013 02:57PM   0 votes
You're the one who put the pensieve on your list. I'm just telling you she didn't steal it, or at least, she didn't steal it from Tolkien.


deleted member Sep 02, 2013 03:00PM   0 votes
Okay! This just stupid! I love Harry potter and it got me through a rough time. Clearly some things are similar but there are so many books that have similar things.do you know how many books I have read that are super similar to the hunger games. I know us Harry Potter fans can get crazy.


Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Maggie wrote: "Gandalf was inspired by Merlin, so was Dumbledore. That's not plagiarism to be inspired by the same source. That's being a fantasy/adventure author...."

And Tolkien based his character off a myth!


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 02:08PM ) Sep 02, 2013 02:08PM   0 votes
Maaike wrote: "Indeed a lot of elements are similar, and yes I did notice that..
But, in so many fantasy (also other genres) books there are elements that other books also have..
Why all the fuss? Pff it's no bi..."


These are direct copies it annoys me much when I see them


Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorre..."

Like I said before, your comprehension is not up to par, if you can't see the direct correlation, and I'm sorry for that. They just didn't teach English Lit the same back when you were a kid I guess.


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 02:01PM ) Sep 02, 2013 02:00PM   0 votes
Maggie wrote: "You made a list of similar things that doesn't mean she stole anything and many things on your list either aren't really that similar or they are charachterizations that you can find in most adven..."
They are direct copies.Such as galadriels bowl,can't remember the name of it,and the pensieve.The Ringwraiths and the dementors and copying of the usage of the Words dark Lord.I'm by going to list then all as I've already did


Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different audience and it has many original..."

The thing I listed are not basic fantasy traits,jk rowling plagiarized,none other author copied the things I listed.And I may not be a genius but you certainly not one either


Excuse me,I use perfect grammar,and I studied plagiarism it is an act of copying another author's work,novels.Not legends or classics/public domain


Matthew wrote: "Michael I feel sorry for you, I really do."

Same here delinquent


Based on the initial comment and and your replies to other posts, Michael, I'd say you're either trolling or...well, stubborn to the point where you can't see how little sense you make.


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 02:50PM ) Sep 02, 2013 02:50PM   0 votes
Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very..."

Wow you just commented on characters not anythin else I listed


Booknerd :D (Girl on fire )) wrote: "Michael wrote: "By the way if anyone cares to notice I am a long time hp fan but I'm not ignorant or think it's the best fantasy in the world and I can clearly see jk plagiarized"

Okay may I point..."


I said I was an hp fan but not ignorant to the facts I mean really


I think that J.k Rowling is an amazing women with an incredible imagination. I don't believe there is any way she has plagiarized anything. And even if she did she still had to create the whole story line and then write it brilliantly which cannot be stolen. So even if she did she is still a bloody brilliant writer.


Matthew wrote: "Michael wrote: "Analise wrote: "I think that J.k Rowling is an amazing women with an incredible imagination. I don't believe there is any way she has plagiarized anything. And even if she did she s..."

I listed all the thing she plagiarized,no one can plagiarize a mythological creatures they are also public domain legends you really don't know what the word means do you


The thing is if tolkien "copied" it himself from an earlier source than how do you know Rowling didn't as well?


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:46PM ) Sep 02, 2013 01:46PM   0 votes
Faith wrote: "Sweetie , every fantasy story barrows things from the stories came before it. Percy Jackson resembles HP in a much closer way than HP resembles LOTR. The wise older grandfather figure is as old as..."

Really that's funny because LOTR is the only books that has all those things and go is the top most one that copied off it.I bet your an hp fan and you terrified that your child hood fantasy could be a rip off,am I right?


Matthew wrote: "Michael wrote: "Kim wrote: "@Michael I have to ask, why did you create a thread about this opinion if you didn't want to discuss it?"

Tis is not to be discussed,it is a statement,everything I list..."


You've stated your opinion which is fine little boy I stated fact a statment


Maggie wrote: "Gandalf was inspired by Merlin, so was Dumbledore. That's not plagiarism to be inspired by the same source. That's being a fantasy/adventure author."

Dumbledore is Gandalf copy,there is no proof of the way merlin acted these were stories not novels.Dumbledore is gandalf personality everything.


Maggie (last edited Sep 02, 2013 03:05PM ) Sep 02, 2013 03:05PM   0 votes
If it occurs in the real world historically than you can't say that Tolkien invented it.


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:11PM ) Sep 02, 2013 01:05PM   0 votes
Izzy wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different audience and it has many original..."

Cassandra Clare may have wrote fan fic about hp and used it as a starting point but she did not take any elements from up like the ones I listed with the lord of the ribgs/go.She didn't plagiarize anything,your comment is invalid


Maggie (last edited Sep 02, 2013 02:19PM ) Sep 02, 2013 02:08PM   0 votes
Than you need to study. It's called scrying and historically it was used to "see the future". It was somehing a person like Nostradamus might do.

You might call it hydromancy which is an ancient greek method of divination.


Faith wrote: "The list you made barely makes sense and it is very unorganised by the way."

Really,it barley makes sense that jk copied off all those things?Or the way I wrote it?


Faith wrote: "Tomás wrote: "People, I'm just new to the group.. And I don´t want to sound arrogant, but you can say the same things about every other fantasy tale..

Tolkien (which is the best fantasy writer I'v..."


Eragon is a different story when the plot resembles LOTR and star wars it doesn't paste things that are from LOTR


You made a list of similar things that doesn't mean she stole anything and many things on your list either aren't really that similar or they are charachterizations that you can find in most adventure story. Are Frodo and Harry really all that similar? They both go on a quest... that's about it. A hero who goes on a quest to achieve some end is not exactly original to Tolkien. You can find it in ancient writings. The Epic of Gilgamesh features it for example.


Matthew wrote: "Michael wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Michael wrote: "Rowenna of the Hawkswood. wrote: "Please could we keep this civil? I know all of us are trying but a little moderation would not hurt."

I'm being ci..."


This isn't a debate


Like I said ignorant,this is not a debate I created this topic as a statement you have no right staying on keeping saying she not with no evidence


Gandalf was inspired by Merlin, so was Dumbledore. That's not plagiarism to be inspired by the same source. That's being a fantasy/adventure author.


Why would it matter if Tolkien borrowed from a "story" and not a novel? what about a poem? Is it okay to borrow from them?

Okay, you don't understand what plagiarism is, Michael, do you?


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:23PM ) Sep 02, 2013 01:22PM   0 votes
I mean she even copied the saying dark Lord and she copied and paste the character of gandalf.So what your saying is completely invalid


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 01:29PM ) Sep 02, 2013 01:26PM   0 votes
Izzy wrote: "Michael wrote: "Izzy wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different audi..."

Did I ask you? Everything I'm saying is completely valid.If you don't like it please don't bother yourself to respond.And I can create and discussions I want.What surprises me is how you keep responding to them.


Oh, and since the title of you discussion is "J.K Rowling plagiarized off The Lord Of The Rings And Narnia!!!!" Where is your so called "proof" that she plagiarized Narnia?


Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 03:19PM ) Sep 02, 2013 03:19PM   0 votes
Kim wrote: "Michael wrote: "Kim wrote: "Michael wrote: "Kim wrote: "@Michael I have to ask, why did you create a thread about this opinion if you didn't want to discuss it?"

Tis is not to be discussed,it is a..."


I listed all the things she copied that's not an opinion it's a fact


Authors though out the years have been inspired by many authors and works before them in their own stories. Was this plagiarizing? No. She didnt take from Narnia and lord of the rings and put it in her novels pretending that they were her own creations. If you really think that any work wasn't inspired by something before it then I don't know what to tell you.
She didnt plagiarize


I know, I was just trying to keep this from dissolving into a flame war, that happens sometimes with other threads but luckily I doubt this one.


Michael wrote: "Izzy wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different audience and it has ..."

Michael, I don't know what's wrong with you or why you want to act like such a dick at the moment but if you want to live in your little bubble then that's fine.
What's not fine is that you insist on making these type of threads, purposely provoking people, and then completely ignore or insult people who disagree with your opinion because you're in denial about everything that's going on.

Don't get involved in public discussions if you can't take the heat.


Matthew wrote: "Michael wrote: "Matthew wrote: "It most cases I would just ignore him, but this conversation is just too much fun. Seeing him try to defend himself is just plain amusing."

Keep writing idiotic com..."


You've go in no evidence,nothing just your worthless opinion which is not a fact


Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Oh yeah, did you know that Narnia is basically the Bible in fantasy form? You want to accuse JK of plagiarism then you better stick to your guns and add Narnia to the list of copyca..."

You haven't read much of the Bible, have you?


Rowenna of the Hawkswood. wrote: "With all respect intended Michael most of these are tropes commonly used, I do not see a resemblance by between Eowyn and Ginny myself, the Ring and the Horcrux was a homage, Dark Lord the same. As..."

Gandalf and Dumbledore are The same character.Eowyn and Ginny are much Alike look wise and personality.Horcrux was a pathetic copy again both things are The sane


Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Mcguire wrote: "Michael wrote: "Sorrel wrote: "I don't think she should exactly be ashamed, because they are two very different books and she wrote them for a completely different a..."

I never said eragon didnt


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