A Storm of Swords (A Song of Ice and Fire, #3) A Storm of Swords discussion

Favorite book ever??

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message 1: by Michael (last edited Sep 02, 2013 11:23AM) (new) - added it

Michael I know/heard quite a few people saying that a storm of swords is their favorite book of all time and seeing as all the 5 star review I was wondering if it was yours to and why?

Baelor Keshena,

Perhaps some spoiler tags?

Amber I loved Storm of Swords too. I wouldn't say it's my favorite of all time, since that is most definitely Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss but I will say it's in the top 5 for me.

Personally, for me, what made it so good was character arch and progression. We get Jaime Lannister's POV which completely changed my reading perspective, not just in ASOIAF but for every book read. I totally misjudged his character and it was interesting seeing that play out.
It wasn't just Jaime though, the progression and introduction of Sandor Clegane's life story and personal views was also an extremely intriguing point for me.
As well as Davos Seaworth who is probably my number one favorite character in the series. His inner turmoil at his son's death, the fact he remains honest when so few men would/will. I just love the cast of characters I guess. LOL.

Kristin A Storm of Swords is my favorite book...of all time, I think.

It is rare to find such a plot driven story that is well written.

message 5: by Shrike (new)

Shrike Well, close.

It is my least favorite book of all time. I absolutely despise this monstrosity. The characters are loathsome aside from Tyrion, the plot is going nowhere or even starting to drift backwards, the world is still surprisingly flat and uninteresting...Worst novel I've ever read. Several times I had to restrain myself from hurling it against a wall or out a window. And when I finally got to the ending, I just sat there dumbfounded that anyone could possibly write something so stupid. Can you say "deus ex machina"? Yeah...

Seed ASOS is probably my favorite book of all time.

Amber Shrike wrote: "Well, close.

It is my least favorite book of all time. I absolutely despise this monstrosity. The characters are loathsome aside from Tyrion, the plot is going nowhere or even starting to drift ba..."

Can you give some actual examples of what bothered you? I thought it was pretty well written and just didn't get this vibe at all.
Haven't met many people who did. So I'm interested in the perspective and what exactly it is that rubs certain people the wrong way.

Gordon Shrike wrote: "Well, close.

It is my least favorite book of all time. I absolutely despise this monstrosity. The characters are loathsome aside from Tyrion, the plot is going nowhere or even starting to drift ba..."

Life is not a song & the Game of Thrones u play to win or die!

I can see being upset certain characters dying but 'monstrosity'? a bit harsh no? Martin wasn't filled with puppy dogs & kittens in 'GoT' & 'ACOK' lol... I'd be interested in ur POV as well

message 9: by Shrike (last edited Sep 09, 2013 02:29PM) (new)

Shrike Amber wrote: "Shrike wrote: "Well, close.

It is my least favorite book of all time. I absolutely despise this monstrosity. The characters are loathsome aside from Tyrion, the plot is going nowhere or even start..."

I can try; it's been a while, so I won't get all the details and names right, and might put things out of order, but:

The duel between the southern prince and that abomination that shouldn't even exist. (Seriously, guy rapes and murders a princess in his own nation's chief temple and everyone knows about it? His own lord would have strung him up. Martin's world loses any pretensions at realism by letting that thing walk around.) Why does that sequence exist? It accomplishes nothing except a further defeat and humiliation for Tyrion, who as I said is the only likeable character. Same thing when he finds out about Shae later on. It didn't add anything, just more piling on of how much his life sucks, as if we didn't already know that.

Jon and Daenerys continue to be totally disconnected from the actual plot. If he doesn't want to write about them, don't. If he does, find some way to weave them into the larger narrative. I'm all for branching storylines - Robert Jordan and Harry Turtledove both handle them excellently - but they have to come back together at some point. I quit with this one, but if what the internet tells me is correct, Daenerys still hasn't had so much as a conversation with any other major character. After 5 very long books and 17 years. That is not a sign of good pacing.

The Red Wedding. Oh, wow. The worst part is, in terms of the actual writing, it's probably Martin's best. The language and the atmosphere were very well done. It would have made a great short story. Unfortunately, it's not a short story. It's one chapter in a multi-volume epic. This cements my opinion that Martin might not be a bad writer, but that he is a terrible novelist. And the reason I dislike this scene isn't because I liked the characters. Far from it. It was because we had been following this plotline for two and a half books. Then, out of nowhere, due to the rampant stupidity that Martin likes to infect his characters with, it all comes crashing down.

The undead ending. Again, I could not believe what I was reading. No foreshadowing that such a thing was even possible (and yes, I do remember the prologue all the way back in book 1, but that was entirely different).

Aside from these plot points, I just came to intensely dislike much of the series. The tone, the misogyny, the fanservice (like Daenerys's random lesbian scene that exists for no other reason than "lesbians are hot!"; I certainly don't disagree, but I might prefer more subtlety than a 14-year-old's first yuri fanfic).

Amber Personally, I always saw Gregor's existance as a testiment to the cruelty of Tywin's, the same goes for the sequence with Shae. Gregor continues to live so he can work for the Lannisters and since the Lannisters have the throne, they can protect Gregor as he is an asset to them. I originally believed that Gregor was mostly in place to help create sympathy for Sandor, and to cause a conflict with ultimate resolution for one, but it's hard to say now since (view spoiler) Another assumption I made was maybe everyone was too afraid to do anything to stop him. But, I definitely see your dislike for the presentation on this specific front. It is confusing for the reader and no definitive reasoning is ever presented which isn't exactly the best or anything.
As for Shae, I feel a bit a differently. I didn't think it just presented the pain of Tyrion's life, but also presented the psychological reasoning for Tywin's harsh judgements and reactions to Tyrion's habits. Plus it gave segway into the more important death in that scene and how the emotional abuse of Tyrion's entire life basically culminated in his realization that he was abused simply for being just like his own father. In my opinion, (and I know not everyone shares it) that moment actually proved to me, hands down, that Tyrion was his fathers Son and put to rest all that secret Targaryen b.s. people like to spout. So I felt like it added to the overall character of Tyrion. Plus, it also shows for once that manifestation of insanity in Tyrion that seems to be prevelant, (also in my opinion) between his siblings but never stood out strongly in his character. I felt the sequence and progression led to fundamentally change his character from an upward progression to spiraling almost manic existance.

Which, since you appear to like his character a good deal, I could see as frustrating and maybe even surprising as their are absolutely zero hints on the front of Shae's affair. Personally, twists like that are something I enjoy in writing, so definitely personal preference.

As for Jon and Dany, I felt this was acceptable through Storm of Swords. It wasn't too far through the story and I was seeing a web being weaved. Jon gets a strong connection into the main plot in DWD so he's in the clear for me though I think it would have been better if it had been done in the 4th installment instead of the 5th. Jon just wasn't present in the 4th so I get it. Makes enough sense. But Dany. I have to actually agree. It was fine enough through Storm of Swords for me, since her Dragons were babies, but at this point, I love ASOIAF and I find myself skimming her chapters and even hoping they'll be over so I can get back to Westeros. The pacing is off, totally, and the further away from Westeros she travels the more disconnected from the entire story she becomes. Her character seems unfortunately disjointed to me at this point. So I think you make a fair judgment their.

I enjoyed the Red Wedding, I felt like it was a possible path of many so it wasn't out of place for me. Plus, I liked the eventual tie back to the Lannisters. That was an interesting presentation of their power. I think we can just agree to disagree on that front, Red Wedding is hit and miss with tons of fans. I preferred it because I felt that their was definitely a possibility something like that would happen, but it was the road less travelled by authors. So it was just nice, for me, that the good guys didn't just get away. But I have personal taste for villians and how they are presented. A good villian will be my favorite character anyday of the week.
House Frey was never that for me, but I feel Tywin Lannister really was. I absolutely felt like this played into his character so it was satisfying for me.

Yah Bleck to Rhllor Zombies. I didn't care for that shit either. It was very "meh"
And I'd prefer, if he was going to do it, that he'd chosen someone else. But we gotta remember that Azor Ahai is going to role around so he's laying the ground work in my opinion. Then again, that leads back to your completely valid point on pacing. Which is not Martin's strongest suit. I generally don't mind that since I enjoy long novels and am fan of the likes of Dumas, who in my opinion, suffers the same issue. But yah, it does get annoying sometimes which lowers the enjoyability overall.

Anyway, thanks for that. I enjoyed it. I can definitely see more where you are coming from and I even actually agree with most of what you said!! LOL.

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